12/4 | Providence | 2:00PM (CBSSN)

[rjsuperfly66]

And none of that impacts the game on the court 12/04/2021. Goal is to win the game and that’s exactly what PC is going to do tomorrow. PC would have to lay down a real dogshit performance to lose this one.

That is a strong statement lol

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

[NYGFan_Section208]

This is a blood game. I don’t care. It’s extremely personal. I don’t GAF. Either we win or we die.

Not a lot of wiggle room there...

[section(105)]

…….speaking of wiggle room……..I do no think we got much here……our “A” game has got to show up for 35 minutes or more…….the lapses we seem to have simply cannot show up……..

[theblueram]

That is a strong statement lol

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

I usually respect your opinions for the most part, but I like the pc fan finally coming out. LOL. That's a lot of discredit to a team we already discredit. I hope when pc loses, they did have a dogshit performance. Cause that will save face for ya.

[Jersey77]

This is a blood game. I don’t care. It’s extremely personal. I don’t GAF. Either we win or we die.

Not a lot of wiggle room there...

Wow, sounds like some serious stuff going on there.

[KingstonLane]

We’re not PCs rival, and this isn’t a big game to them, and they’re not worried about us

….and yet their game thread is already longer than ours lol. Didn’t know we owned so much mental real estate in providence

[bigappleram]

That is a strong statement lol

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

1. You realize any pre-season data KenPom is using for us is based on last season when we weren’t very good.

2. You wanna bet Northwestern isn’t a Top 50 win when all is said and done? TBD even with Texas Tech who literally hasn’t played anyone yet so it’s hard to say how good a win that was and you beat Wisconsin without their best player.

3. Agree our guys haven’t been an environment like this in 2 years and that will be a huge hill to climb but don’t pretend like you played Gonzaga’s schedule.

[ramster]

That is a strong statement lol

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

Regardless of where the point spread begins Vegas and betting houses like MGM, Draftkings, FanDuel, Caesar’s, William Hill, etc want money bet balanced on both sides of the line.
If money goes high on URI, then the 5 point line will move up. If it’s announced 2 URI starters are out then money will go towards PC and the 5 point line will move up. The line is moved by the money bet, moved by the betting houses.

At any rate, if you think the line is too low, however unfairly you think it might be set, and you think PC will very easily cover, then bet the house on PC.

Fact is 5 points shows marginal difference between the teams considering the game is on PCs home court.

[bigappleram]

And we don’t need Vegas to know there has been marginal differences between the two programs over the last 10, 20, 30 years. In my lifetime as a fan I have seen more Rhody NcAA wins than PC NCAA wins. That’s 35 years. Yet their fan base thinks they are rivals with a school that has 4 national titles and 24 ncaa wins in the time PC has 1 measly win (last 20+ years).

[ramster]

KenPom doesn’t set the spreads. Vegas does. They put the spread where the money is on both sides.

Same for baseball, football, NBA, College football, you name it.

Emotions are removed from the spread.

5 points it is from Vegas. If you think OC is that much better than URI, let’s say 10 points better, 15 points better then by all means bet the house, boat, car….. freakin load up on the Friars because it’s easy money.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is all over this stuff at the betting houses and becoming more and more sophisticated.

Betting from the heart is never a good idea. Professional betters set the line.

Maybe it moved up from 5 but I’ve seen nothing yet today to indicate upwards movement from the 5.

Reef,
You know more about this than me, but am I wrong in my description?

[ramster]

Example of betting houses setting spreads in Vegas

Spreads may vary by a half point or so but not very much or often. These houses set these spreads for thousands of sporting events every day and no connection with URI or PC or any teams. Purely analytical, computer driven and betting balanced above and below the point spread.

A985C757-38BF-4F57-A1BE-86BCCF7B8C2F.png

[reef]

KenPom doesn’t set the spreads. Vegas does. They put the spread where the money is on both sides.

Same for baseball, football, NBA, College football, you name it.

Emotions are removed from the spread.

5 points it is from Vegas. If you think OC is that much better than URI, let’s say 10 points better, 15 points better then by all means bet the house, boat, car….. freakin load up on the Friars because it’s easy money.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is all over this stuff at the betting houses and becoming more and more sophisticated.

Betting from the heart is never a good idea. Professional betters set the line.

Maybe it moved up from 5 but I’ve seen nothing yet today to indicate upwards movement from the 5.

Reef,
You know more about this than me, but am I wrong in my description?

You are exactly right Ramster , that’s why I’m eager to see how this gets net from the -5 , I personally think that’s great line respect for URI as I thought it would open a bit higher .

You also make a great point about the home court being worth 3 points so they are saying on a neutral court that PC right now is about -2 which is great respect to URI

[Billyboy78]

God, I hate everything about that school and that program.

[KeaneyBluBallz]

This is a blood game. I don’t care. It’s extremely personal. I don’t GAF. Either we win or we die.

I like where your head is at

[ramster]

From 25 highest paid basketball coaches. One source estimates his 20 year contract to be between $30 and $40 million. I’ve heard it’s closer to $40 million.

Sean Mac over at the PC board (used to be a poster here but got canned) is questioning the $4 million I rounded up to.
Ok so let’s just go with the $3.4 million.

So this $30 to $40 million contract includes 1 single NCAA victory. Maybe this is the year for PCs CFL to get another NCAA win?

No wonder Michigan walked away from him for Juwan Howard making that kind of cash.

19. Ed Cooley, Providence
Total Pay: $3.4 million

https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/ ... aches/amp/

[adam914]

KenPom doesn’t set the spreads. Vegas does. They put the spread where the money is on both sides.

Same for baseball, football, NBA, College football, you name it.

Emotions are removed from the spread.

5 points it is from Vegas. If you think OC is that much better than URI, let’s say 10 points better, 15 points better then by all means bet the house, boat, car….. freakin load up on the Friars because it’s easy money.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is all over this stuff at the betting houses and becoming more and more sophisticated.

Betting from the heart is never a good idea. Professional betters set the line.

Maybe it moved up from 5 but I’ve seen nothing yet today to indicate upwards movement from the 5.

Reef,
You know more about this than me, but am I wrong in my description?

This is generally true, or at least the goal, but it's also a bit more complicated sometimes. Often who is betting the money is much more important than keeping it even on both sides. This is a pretty good answer to the question including some quotes from Chris Andrews (who is a fascinating guy if you are interested in this stuff, his books are great).

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/questio ... ok-action/

[ramster]

KenPom doesn’t set the spreads. Vegas does. They put the spread where the money is on both sides.

Same for baseball, football, NBA, College football, you name it.

Emotions are removed from the spread.

5 points it is from Vegas. If you think OC is that much better than URI, let’s say 10 points better, 15 points better then by all means bet the house, boat, car….. freakin load up on the Friars because it’s easy money.

Artificial Intelligence (AI) is all over this stuff at the betting houses and becoming more and more sophisticated.

Betting from the heart is never a good idea. Professional betters set the line.

Maybe it moved up from 5 but I’ve seen nothing yet today to indicate upwards movement from the 5.

Reef,
You know more about this than me, but am I wrong in my description?

This is generally true, or at least the goal, but it's also a bit more complicated sometimes. Often who is betting the money is much more important than keeping it even on both sides. This is a pretty good answer to the question including some quotes from Chris Andrews (who is a fascinating guy if you are interested in this stuff, his books are great).

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/questio ... ok-action/

I think the point is RJ not understanding how it works. Sean Mac now supporting RJ on the Friar Board.

Doesn’t sound like they have ever bet a game.

They can’t stand that PC would only be favored by 5 points with 3 being home court advantage.

Ed knows the point spread is close - that’s why he ducked last years game.

[adam914]

Ah Sean Mac, totally forgot about that guy. Always such a treat to talk to.

RJ isn’t totally off about kenpom either though. It’s definitely at least used as a factor by sportsbooks when setting the line.

https://www.vegasbetting.com/guide/kenp ... n-rankings

[Jersey77]

From 25 highest paid basketball coaches. One source estimates his 20 year contract to be between $30 and $40 million. I’ve heard it’s closer to $40 million.

Sean Mac over at the PC board (used to be a poster here but got canned) is questioning the $4 million I rounded up to.
Ok so let’s just go with the $3.4 million.

So this $30 to $40 million contract includes 1 single NCAA victory. Maybe this is the year for PCs CFL to get another NCAA win?

No wonder Michigan walked away from him for Juwan Howard making that kind of cash.

19. Ed Cooley, Providence
Total Pay: $3.4 million

https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/ ... aches/amp/

Wow, Fred Hoiberg at #10 with a 14-45 record (5-35 B10) although there is some optimism in the program.
Nice to have Warren Buffett as an alumnus and from (still living there) Omaha.

Okay, sorry back to the Providence thread.

[SmartyBarrett]

Loling at pc fans complaining that kenpom has a bias against them

I think it's common knowledge that Ken alters his trusted, reliable, and well-known formula to screw one team and one team only: Providence College. Despicable, really.

[TruePoint]

URI goes into the PC game as an organizationally dysfunctional basketball team. The talent is there but players are in the wrong seats on the bus. I feel this is the underlying cause for these long stretches of bad basketball we have seen against Tulsa, FGCU, Harvard and even BU. Sure, it is Cox's fault; he is struggling to recruit A10 competitive talent and can't choose what the talent is. Let me be specific. Mama Mitchell may be happy but Makhi is not ready to return from injury as a starter. Walker is not a good enough shooter to play SF which is now his best opportunity to become a starter. Shepp is not a PG and the contrast with Thomas who is a year away from being ready to start at PG is glaring. The results are what we have seen to date.

The best thing for this year is to start Makhel and Walker with Mahki coming off the bench a C, PF. Start Shepp and Malik at SG, SF with EA off the bench. Start Ish at PG with Thomas as a sub.

Unless PC lays an egg, I'm not optimistic about our chances on Saturday.

Even as a bit this isn't good

[rhodysurf]

URI goes into the PC game as an organizationally dysfunctional basketball team. The talent is there but players are in the wrong seats on the bus. I feel this is the underlying cause for these long stretches of bad basketball we have seen against Tulsa, FGCU, Harvard and even BU. Sure, it is Cox's fault; he is struggling to recruit A10 competitive talent and can't choose what the talent is. Let me be specific. Mama Mitchell may be happy but Makhi is not ready to return from injury as a starter. Walker is not a good enough shooter to play SF which is now his best opportunity to become a starter. Shepp is not a PG and the contrast with Thomas who is a year away from being ready to start at PG is glaring. The results are what we have seen to date.

The best thing for this year is to start Makhel and Walker with Mahki coming off the bench a C, PF. Start Shepp and Malik at SG, SF with EA off the bench. Start Ish at PG with Thomas as a sub.

Unless PC lays an egg, I'm not optimistic about our chances on Saturday.

Even as a bit this isn't good

Gunna be honest I laughed

[rjsuperfly66]

Loling at pc fans complaining that kenpom has a bias against them

I think it's common knowledge that Ken alters his trusted, reliable, and well-known formula to screw one team and one team only: Providence College. Despicable, really.

Eh, some questioned it’s early season reliability given its reliance on computerazing preseason projections and not actual results and portions of that group expressed appreciation for metrics that only focus on results-to-date.
PC has moved from nearly 90 to nearly 60 since the season started, but there is zero doubt their KenPom ceiling is held back at this point due to that projection factor.
Are they the only ones “screwed?” No, of course not. Is it a factor? How could one not think so.
PC is legit one of two teams (unless that changed in the last day or so) with 3 Top 50 KenPom wins. They are in 75% of Bracket Matrix brackets. They’ve been solid so far this year.
That’s why I feel so confident about the game. I don’t think there is any question PC has the far superior resume.
Resume doesn’t win games though, that’s why we play the games on-the-court.

[FDshoes]

BC stomping on ND today could eventually help the 2 dubs against them. ND currently has 4 loses but the other 3 are against strong opponents. And BC has been on a roll if they keep it up entering ACC and somehow, however unlikely, have a decent conference play record those 2 wins could mean something come end of season

[FDshoes]

That is a strong statement lol

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

Texas Tech has probably played the easiest schedule in the country prior to the PC game. There is zero way to gage where they stand on a competitive standpoint yet. And kenpoms analytics can't grade them well either due to the bums they have played. The Wisconsin victory was a very good win. But northwestern will not be a moving factor win come end of the season and far to early to tell with the Texas Tech victory. And towards some of your other posts Abt kenpom "dissing" PC. They most likely don't view the TT and NW as that impressive yet. TT may be a good victory down the road but now can't judge it. And the NW victory won't mean dog poo come end of season. Only one guaranteed top 50 victory of the current 3

[Rhody36]

Yeah. "A real dogs shit performance would have to take place for PC to lose."
PC is favored by only 5 points on their home court which gives 3 points just for the court. But what does the betting public know

$4,000,000 CFL man who ducked last season's home game because he was chicken is only favored by 5 at home. What is the ROI on that investment?

You realize spreads are largely based off metrics, mainly KenPom? You know that KenPom has a heavy preseason influence until mid-January? You realize PC is one of two teams in the country with 3 Top 50 wins? You realize URI hasn’t even played a Top 100 opponent?

I believe in being battle tested. URI hasn’t played in front of a crowd like this in almost two years. PC just played in front of a crowd like this two days ago. URI hasn’t played anyone and already has two bad losses. PC has 3 Top 50 wins and their loss was a Top 50 loss.

Anything can happen, I admit that. I just think PC has been in these early season wars and has shown they can prevail. What has URI shown?

Texas Tech has probably played the easiest schedule in the country prior to the PC game. There is zero way to gage where they stand on a competitive standpoint yet. And kenpoms analytics can't grade them well either due to the bums they have played. The Wisconsin victory was a very good win. But northwestern will not be a moving factor win come end of the season and far to early to tell with the Texas Tech victory. And towards some of your other posts Abt kenpom "dissing" PC. They most likely don't view the TT and NW as that impressive yet. TT may be a good victory down the road but now can't judge it. And the NW victory won't mean dog poo come end of season. Only one guaranteed top 50 victory of the current 3

Texas Tech was ranked 10th in the country before the game against PC. I hate Kempom as much as I hate the Friars it just all feels like made up stats…

[rhodysurf]

Loling at pc fans complaining that kenpom has a bias against them

I think it's common knowledge that Ken alters his trusted, reliable, and well-known formula to screw one team and one team only: Providence College. Despicable, really.

Eh, some questioned it’s early season reliability given its reliance on computerazing preseason projections and not actual results and portions of that group expressed appreciation for metrics that only focus on results-to-date.
PC has moved from nearly 90 to nearly 60 since the season started, but there is zero doubt their KenPom ceiling is held back at this point due to that projection factor.
Are they the only ones “screwed?” No, of course not. Is it a factor? How could one not think so.
PC is legit one of two teams (unless that changed in the last day or so) with 3 Top 50 KenPom wins. They are in 75% of Bracket Matrix brackets. They’ve been solid so far this year.
That’s why I feel so confident about the game. I don’t think there is any question PC has the far superior resume.
Resume doesn’t win games though, that’s why we play the games on-the-court.

TTUs big man is Marcus santos Silva, and A10 level big who’s soft as shit, not to mention TTUs schedule early on was somehow easier than URIs., northwestern on a neutral court is Meh. Winning at Wisconsin is impressive tho.

But also this:

[EricLeslieFor2]

EFF THIS PC SHIT
LETS GO RHODY
SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING HOW GREAT COOLEY AND PC IS
HELLLO.. YOU HAVE WON a TOTAL OF "1" NCAA GAME SINCE 1998 and THAT WAS A PLAY IN TUES NIGHT GAME
GO AWAY YOU LOSERS
FUCKING A LETS GO RHODY

Actually that one win was an 8/9 game against a USC team that had 2 NBA players.

[KingstonLane]

PC has good wins and looked good this year. They’ve also struggled at times during their games and looked vulnerable

If we bring our A game no reason we can’t win today.

[ramster]

EFF THIS PC SHIT
LETS GO RHODY
SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING HOW GREAT COOLEY AND PC IS
HELLLO.. YOU HAVE WON a TOTAL OF "1" NCAA GAME SINCE 1998 and THAT WAS A PLAY IN TUES NIGHT GAME
GO AWAY YOU LOSERS
FUCKING A LETS GO RHODY

Actually that one win was an 8/9 game against a USC team that had 2 NBA players.

Not difficult to remember $3.4 Million per Year CFL Cooley’s NCAA wins since there is only 1.

[spookydog]

Not trying to bring up a shit storm of back & forth posts, but am just passing this info along. The following alert came in an email yesterday from PC & the Dunk:

"With the recent rise of Covid cases in RI, we strongly suggest all fans attending the game wear a mask for their safety and the safety of others."

[ramster]

Not trying to bring up a shit storm of back & forth posts, but am just passing this info along. The following alert came in an email yesterday from PC & the Dunk:

"With the recent rise of Covid cases in RI, we strongly suggest all fans attending the game wear a mask for their safety and the safety of others."

I was planning to wear one anyway. Thanks for update

[Billyboy78]

[Rhody15]

Rhody by a billion.

(I hope)

[Rhody15]

PC has good wins and looked good this year. They’ve also struggled at times during their games and looked vulnerable

If we bring our A game no reason we can’t win today.

We need our A game, they need their C game for us to win.

[Billyboy78]

Our bigs can't waste fouls 30 feet from the basket or on charges and illegal picks. Going to need them to be available to defend Watson. One of the twins, preferably Makhel, has to stay out of foul trouble.

[gazakaza]

Before you head out to today's game take a listen to the newest episode of Rhody Baseline where we are joined by ABC 6's Nick Coit to talk about the biggest game of the year.

[bigappleram]

Limit turnovers especially live ball ones.

Keep our bigs out of early foul trouble.

Someone is going to have to have their best game of the season.

[section(105)]

……..decent primer, Rhody Baseline, for the casual fan……from what I have heard so far…….

[section(105)]

Limit turnovers especially live ball ones.

Keep our bigs out of early foul trouble.

Someone is going to have to have their best game of the season.

……sounds like part of the “A” game…….then add, in my best Jim Baron voice……’I told our guys we gotta make shots……’

[RF1]

Jon had this as well:

[ramster]

Tickets are now officially sold out at the Dunk Ticket Windows

[ramster]

Tickets still going down on StubHub. $35 now

[Billyboy78]

Tickets still going down on StubHub. $35 now

How much are good seats going for?

[spookydog]

Blake’s opened early at 10:45. These 6$ captains daughters are going down quick. Let’s goooooooo

[ramster]

Damn,

Looking at the friar board. No respect from RJ.
Spread is down to 4.5 points today



rjsuperfly66
Posted on Dec 2nd, 4:22 PM, , User Since 143 months ago, User Post Count: 16211
Dec 2nd, 4:22 PM
143 months
16211
URI has played no quality opponents and already has two bad losses.

Gave up a double-digit lead to Florida Gulf Coast and lost. Last night I think tried to give back a 21 point lead and hung on late.

They have some interesting pieces but lousy coaching should be the difference. PC should roll, although think it’ll be similar to St Peters, close for about 30 and PC pulls away late.

[rhodysurf]

Kind love RJ throwing heaters tbh

[ramster]

Today PC is Ranked #5 in RPI (was #15 Monday) SOS = 19
URI is up to #26 in RPI (was #27 Monday) SOS = 54

One of the best games in College Basketball today

Highest Ranked BE Team vs Highest Ranked A10 Team in RPI. NET comes out for the first time next week.


Past Monday Rankings:

Rankings (URI):
NCAA NET: 87 (112)*
RPI: 15 (27)
KenPom: 60 (78)
BPI: 37 (74)
Sagarin: 50 (86)
* Denotes last season

4D1ECA0B-28F7-4C0D-B3D4-5138485FECEC.jpeg

[Rhody74]

Damn,

Looking at the friar board. No respect from RJ.
Spread is down to 4.5 points today



rjsuperfly66
Posted on Dec 2nd, 4:22 PM, , User Since 143 months ago, User Post Count: 16211
Dec 2nd, 4:22 PM
143 months
16211
URI has played no quality opponents and already has two bad losses.

Gave up a double-digit lead to Florida Gulf Coast and lost. Last night I think tried to give back a 21 point lead and hung on late.

They have some interesting pieces but lousy coaching should be the difference. PC should roll, although think it’ll be similar to St Peters, close for about 30 and PC pulls away late.

Hate to say it but RJ’s not far off. Only difference is I think it’ll stay within the spread until the end.

[Billyboy78]

Regarding RJ's comments, I don't think either team has a very good coach, so we'll see how that part of it plays out.