Game #25: @ Dayton - Wed Feb 23, 7pm WHIO/SNY

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 10 years ago

That's great guys, let Butler be the scapegoat. No one committed a stupid turnover tonight right? Point is they did shoot well tonight, the defense was lacking at times but not taking care of the ball did them in. Keep blaming Butler based on a minor suggestion from a few of us. Way to observe the full spectrum of the game. Not having a true PG is the biggest reason for this, which obviously won't change much going forward. Kid made one bonehead move, pales in comparison to what happened the other 39 minutes tonight. Unreal.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

BAR, you are so right. One GOOD PG. Good enough anyway.

My God, are EC and Hassan going to be beasts. EC will cut down his turnovers next year.

We could also use another big, but that's secondary to the need for the PG.

Soooo close to being good. Really good.

It will be a DAMN shame if we don't get the one player who could tie this all together.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I went to put the kids to bed and came back to find that our
five point halftime deficit somehow got to thirteen!
Still, this team never quit, and fought to the end.
Matthews was great.22 points, 4 assists, 5 turnovers a negative.
Martin 13 rebounds, 14 points, only credited with 2 blocks. 2-3 free throws.
Gil stayed in the entire second half, but was only 4-10 and 6 rebounds. Need more
from him.
TJ played one of his lesser games 4 turnovers.
All the Munford haters should be so orgasmic, because he only took 8 shots. 2-3 from 3.
He's not athletic? Who the hell have you been watching for two years?
Reischel didn't have much impact.
Oneykaba still improving, not making mistakes or fouls.
That one bad stretch beginning the half, doomed them.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 10 years ago

BPR2010 wrote:That's great guys, let Butler be the scapegoat. No one committed a stupid turnover tonight right? Point is they did shoot well tonight, the defense was lacking at times but not taking care of the ball did them in. Keep blaming Butler based on a minor suggestion from a few of us. Way to observe the full spectrum of the game. Not having a true PG is the biggest reason for this, which obviously won't change much going forward. Kid made one bonehead move, pales in comparison to what happened the other 39 minutes tonight. Unreal.

I know. A freshman made a mistake? You don't say. It happens, it's called game experience and he'll learn from it. The same people who expressed and stressed patience with EC and Hassan when they made mistakes because they were only freshman are now jumping on this kid? Sad.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 10 years ago

we have tried the zone a few times this year, tonight was the best we have looked at it. we were extended but not exposed and seemed like guys were communicating well.

the TOs have been a chronic problem this year. 75% of them tonight were unforced, unacceptable. TJ played his worst game in a long time.

Hassan and EC will be battling it out for another A10 ROW if they put up good numbers on Saturday.

Roz · Unread post by **Roz** » 10 years ago

Really pleased with the development of Martin and Matthews!! The biggest benefit from our lack of productive players.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Rod, they keep getting better, slowly.

Still making too many mistakes, and on the road one bad stretch will kill you.

We've got 2 future NBA players on our team.

We don't need an Oscar Robertson for a point guard either, just someone who can run the show efficiently.

Maybe big O will be big for us after all. Only been playing the game 3 years, if he keeps improving, he solves our need for another good big man.

If so, need a wing player more.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

I like munford, not a stretch to question his athleticism considering he rarely finishes at the rim. That play was basically a track meet and he let 2 guys beat him down the floor and then he didn't figure out how to get fouled or a lay up with nobody in good position.

Again I like munford but I probably watch 1-2 NCAA games a night and people just figure out how to get a lay up on most teams. Especially after a freshman makes a great play serving it up to you. Of course the same freshman nearly beat him down the floor and he didn't look to give it to him.

I like munford, I even like volume scorers. Not a good play. Obviously not an athlete.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

BPR2010 wrote:That's great guys, let Butler be the scapegoat. No one committed a stupid turnover tonight right? Point is they did shoot well tonight, the defense was lacking at times but not taking care of the ball did them in. Keep blaming Butler based on a minor suggestion from a few of us. Way to observe the full spectrum of the game. Not having a true PG is the biggest reason for this, which obviously won't change much going forward. Kid made one bonehead move, pales in comparison to what happened the other 39 minutes tonight. Unreal.

Who said Butler was the scapegoat? I made a post at the time of the play commenting that it was not good. Earlier in the thread I commented that the turnovers were killing us. You sure did read an awful lot into very few words.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

"Obviously not an athlete."
Add this statement to the demented ones of today.
This is a guy who's had alley oops run for him.
People have very short memories around here.
Did it ever occur to you that he's played every minute of
every game, and just mayyyyybe he was tired on that play.
No, he can't be excused, when we feel like taking a dump
on a kid who gives it his all.
I'm fucking tired of this crap!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

X is a good player. Having said that, he's not an instinctive player. Neither is TJ.

They are the type of guys that need to get the ball in good scoring positions. They don't make good decisions having to be the distributor.

That's why we suck on the break. Not enough good passers.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

You'd like your senior SG to be one of the top 15 players in the conference. X isn't. No crime in that, but there's too many holes in his game

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

He not? Based on what? Asshole coaches votes?

Rhody22 · Unread post by **Rhody22** » 10 years ago

Overall happy and I watch them mainly to watch in awe at EC and Hass. Barring any unforeseen circumstances, they will be very special players for us. The defense needs to improve. May be because of the lack of depth that sometimes we are not aggressive enough. Disappointed but not upset.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Munford has to try to do too much. It's not for lack of effort, that's for sure.

There's not enough scoring options on this team yet.

It's too late for him, unfortunately. Pair him with a good PG plus EC, play a few less minutes to save him from getting tired at the end of games, and then I think there would be less criticism of his game.

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 10 years ago

Scapegoat may not have been the best word there, but the game was lost before that play. Butler had no impact on this game, just as JR didn't really either. Won't make this about those 2, but you get the point. Turnovers were the reason we lost tonight. That we both can agree on. Also, don't know if it's Dan or the players, but we really suck out of timeouts. Can't remember one crisp, great play that has been executed this season.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Let's put it this way.

Us [and Mason I guess] are 2 dangerous teams come Barclay's.

Pretty good 2-8 teams.

We repeat the last two efforts, and I think we get 4 more wins. Got to get some rewards for our efforts.

Got to be SO frustrating to all of us, including the staff, to see how close we're getting, without winning.

Just that this team has a limited ceiling this year. Just not enough horses, pure and simple. We're doing about as well as we can, given the circumstances.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Last year, X used to go in a corner on offense at he end of a half or end of game.
Bent over, holding his shorts trying to get a breather.
They'd pass the ball until X stood up and started moving.
Bill Russell always said, "You rest on offense".
They can't accomodate X this year, like they did last, when he really was
the only offense they had., but he still plays the same minutes.

luke · Unread post by **luke** » 10 years ago

So guys who think X isn't athletic, did you see the leap and finish he made on a break against UMASS on a pass that led him too much and was too high for him to catch and finish, but he managed to do it anyway? The CBS announcers were gushing over it. Teams are trying their hardest to take X out of the offense to the extent that it is easier for Mathews to score. So when he isn't scoring he is still impacting the game. sure he makes mistakes, but only when he tries too hard to take matters into his own hands. I just wish he could hit free throws late in games which has been more of a problem this year for some reason, but he is still a very good player.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Well next year, we will have 3 serious scoring options.

EC, Martin, and Gil. All 3 should average 15 ppg or better. Hassan might not quite get there, but his offense is improving by leaps and bounds.

Another scorer or two, and we won't have enough balls to go around. The PG won't have to be a big scorer, as long as he's a threat from 3.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Munford has to try to do too much. It's not for lack of effort, that's for sure.

There's not enough scoring options on this team yet.

It's too late for him, unfortunately. Pair him with a good PG plus EC, play a few less minutes to save him from getting tired at the end of games, and then I think there would be less criticism of his game.

He'll be better, more efficient next year. Barcelona is getting a transfer from both Rice and Rutgers.

Until the very end, I thought he was really good tonight.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 10 years ago

Based on Butler's foul at the end of the game before the ball was inbounded and Dayton shot free throws only (no technical) it looks like we could have fouled Lalanne at the end of the Umass game without a technical called and Umass retaining the ball. Lalanne was 2 for 7 in the game and should have been fouled.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 10 years ago

Very poor decision at end of half.
You have the ball with the shot clock off.
You can't ever, EVER!!!, be outscored in that situation.
Seems like it happens with regularity to us.
Just stand there and dribble til the buzzer for crying out loud.
It's not the end of the game where you're losing and may need a tip or something after a rebound.
Do not let the other team have the ball.
Ever.
With any time.
Ever.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

X has been the brightest spot on this team for 2 years. Regardless of what he does well or doesn't. Teams do succeed inside and outside BCS conferences with a lone alpha scoring guard. It happens, this isn't news. Guys play big minutes. Still they win.

Eventually you either get it done or you don't.

If you lose by a few points every game and your team turns the ball over at an incredible pace, 18 tonight? Good for almost every other minute. Lead, dominate the ball more, ensure guys are focused and understand the moment. LIKE when your the senior star with a free basketball at the end of a game in transition with a chance to cut the lead.

If X being tired is the excuse this time, what is the excuse the other 30 times. Every game that is played close comes to a moment where the players either seize the moment and win or they don't. Kid doesn't.

It's called a gut check for a reason. Jordair Jett scored in the last seconds against us at the rim?? Wonder if he was tired. Or when he did it against lasalle the other night. Being tired is no excuse. It's basketball, endurance and toughness are what it's about.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 10 years ago

I am most excited when I see EC stick a three - if he can add some range to his game he will be unstoppable .

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 10 years ago

can we say EC and Hassan are our two best FR prospects since Lamar?

you have to project them to have significant improvements next year on already good numbers, especially Martin who is young and still growing. Scary to think how good they could become...now we just need a PG!!

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 10 years ago

So, where is this PG coming from for next year?

luke · Unread post by **luke** » 10 years ago

Regarding Butler and mistakes: That is why he needs more minutes. He needs playing time to improve. Do you remember Hassan and EC early in the season? They have grown in leaps and bounds and continue to gain confidence every game due to the extra minutes. Maybe Butler could see similar improvement in his game. However, I can understand that coach Hurley probably feels they have progressed to the point that they have a chance to win every time out now and he would like to grab as many wins as they can. I guess I'm okay with that too.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

I think EC is going to be our go-to guy in crunch time next year.

I think he'll win a few close ones for us next year.

Somebody has to emerge, step up, what have you. He's it.

This team and program has to change the culture of losing so many close games over the last 12-13 years.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 10 years ago

bigappleram wrote:can we say EC and Hassan are our two best FR prospects since Lamar?

you have to project them to have significant improvements next year on already good numbers, especially Martin who is young and still growing. Scary to think how good they could become...now we just need a PG!!

EC is only a month and a half older than Hassan. For today's game, they are both very young freshmen. It would be great to see them both on A10 all-rookie team.

I know most have given up on Biggie (I haven't), but it would be nice to have him available right now.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Biggie is most likely to be starting at PG at the beginning of next year, even if we end up getting a good one signed in April.

If we don't get one, I'm not too thrilled about our prospects, even with expected improvement from all of our players, including Biggie.

I just don't see him being good enough to be the answer at PG.

With the recruitment of Garrett and others, I think we can see Dan isn't that confident about it either.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 10 years ago

They were recruiting point guards when they had, like, 4 of them. Recruiting never stops.

I miss Biggie.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 10 years ago

i miss great PG play. i havent seen it in 15 years. i would like to hope biggie can give us good, carlos easterling type PG play....but he hasnt shown the consistent ability to do that YET. he has 3 glaring holes that need fixing - careless with the ball/sloppy handle, poor FT shooter, poor perimeter shooter. sorta tough to be a good PG with those as your faults.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

The early season Biggie, or the Biggie that disappeared the last few games he played?

Still haven't figured that out. Possibly he was hurt before we knew it? Would explain the horrible play.

If it was due to Powell leaving, and him slacking off, then that's inexcusable.

If we sign someone who will challenge him from the get-go next season, that might bring back the good Biggie. Or maybe not.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote: If it was due to Powell leaving, and him slacking off, then that's inexcusable.

Yeah, pretty sure that's not the case.

Not saying he's the answer, but I wouldn't mind adding him to the available 8.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

BAR, if we want to Dance, we have to have the PG.

We all know it. Doesn't matter how good Hassan and EC are, or will be.

We can't wait for 2015-16 to bring one in, unless it's a transfer or juco who's ready to take over right away.

Even then, I'd rather see a freshman who will develop along with the rest of the team.

I don't want to wait another year to get good.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 10 years ago

From what I see, we have one offer to a PG from the '14 class, and he ain't coming here...

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Yup, X sucks late in games.
Last second 3 pointer against Auburn to send it to OT.
Last second game winner against Dayton.
Bet you clowns liked him when he got 25 against Brown,
only guy to show up against Arizona with 22 points,
his 28 against GMU didn't get it done, nor did his 27
against Dayton.
"Kid doesn't get it done".
Do you realize how damned stupid you sound?
Bunch of front runners with no loyalty or memory.

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 10 years ago

Yea leave X alone. He plays hard he scores at will and there's never been a problem with him on or off the court.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 10 years ago

Rhodymob05 wrote:Yea leave X alone. He plays hard he scores at will and there's never been a problem with him on or off the court.

Scores at will? If by at will we mean everything except layups on fastbreaks, 3 point shots, free throws down the stretch of close games, and needing to take 15 shots to score 15 points, sure..we'll say at will.

EC needs the ball. He's the one we need taking any big shot.

X has 2 great clutch moments but a dozen more examples where he just bumbles the play at the end...yet he's still the one we call the play for. You can see every time EC gets the ball that he can do something special.

If we get a pg to distribute to him, he will actually be someone who can score at will.

NJ03 · Unread post by **NJ03** » 10 years ago

Just got home and saw the box score. Was wondering how on earth we could shoot 52% from the floor, 50% from 3 and 75% from the line and lose....then I saw the turnovers. 18....sigh

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

The number of turnovers this team makes is unacceptable. You won't win many games with 18 to's. It isn't even confined to just one player. They all seem to turn it over. Making the turnover situation even worse is our players propensity for fouling right after their miscue. I saw several instances of this last night. Silly frustration fouls only make matters worse.

CTRamfan · Unread post by **CTRamfan** » 10 years ago

In the early part of the season, X was the "go to man". Now we have two!......EC has grown rapidly into a top notch 2G. They each have different styles. X is better in transition, EC is better in a half court set. I am happy we have both. Coach has two options now.

Although TJ shoots a good percentage, he hasn't yet learned to score off the dribble. He needs more space than X and EC. Ditto for Butler. TJ has a huge defensive edge over Butler. I have no doubt Butler's defense, and scoring off his dribble will come, and his value will rise.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 10 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Yup, X sucks late in games.
Last second 3 pointer against Auburn to send it to OT.
Last second game winner against Dayton.
Bet you clowns liked him when he got 25 against Brown,
only guy to show up against Arizona with 22 points,
his 28 against GMU didn't get it done, nor did his 27
against Dayton.
"Kid doesn't get it done".
Do you realize how damned stupid you sound?
Bunch of front runners with no loyalty or memory.

Rod, those games you mentioned were last year. This year, X failed at the end of the Providence game when held the ball way too long and then dumped it to EC with 2 secs left and the STL game not once but twice as he missed a crucial FT and then turned it over by headed toward the sideline instead of the middle of the court.

He has an above average player in the A-10, not elite. I like him, but I don't think he's a guy you build a team around. Guys like EC, Cat, Tyson, Lamar, Garrick, Williams & Green are.

When I hear good 'scorer' in basketball, I hold a negative connotation to it. It's a guy who scores, but shoots way too much to get those points and doesn't shoot for good percentage. Like Paul Pierce, people say he's the greatest scorer in Celtics history, but you watch him with some of the horrible shooting displays and shot selections he's had and you shake your head. But, then he can go on an extended incredible run at any time where you forget about the bad. Now, before everyone with ADD says I'm comparing Pierce to X, relax. But, the number of shots and their poor shot selection are somewhat similar. Sometimes X takes ill-advised shots where you scream 'No', but also goes on some solid runs as well when you're glad he's on your team.

Last year he was forced to take more shots and more difficult shots because he was really our only scoring option, so I was okay with that. Going forward, I he defers more seeing EC and Hassan are emerging as scoring options. X was 2-3 from 3, but only 1-5 inside the arc last night.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

X has proven that he's not the go-to guy we need. He's a good player, yes, but only 2 game winning plays in 2 years is not getting it done.

However, up until now he's been the only option in that regard. EC will be that guy going forward imho.

Hopefully we'll have more than one option as early as next year.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Of course, nobody noticed EC getting stuffed in the last
minute.
Guess we didn't need that basket as much as Munford's missed shot that people are
agonizing over.
Yeah. like guys hit winning shots all the time. How idiotic. Only2 in 2 years. Duh!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

What is the point of criticizing X at this point? He's got 7 or 8 games left in a Rams uniform. I'm not saying some of the criticism isn't warranted, it just isn't productive. X came into this program at one of its lowest points and has been an enormous credit to the program on and off the court for two years, at times the only bright spot on the team. I'd rather just appreciate him for that than dump on him because he isn't the best clutch player of all time.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

EC's a freshman. Not too many freshmen are go-to guys for their teams.

He will develop into one, though. Either he'll make the shot, or make the pass.

This year, not so much. There isn't anybody else right now, that's for sure. Maybe Hassan down the road?

TP, I get it. Without him, we wouldn't have won 5 games last year, or this year either.

We're just looking for a savior. Somebody.....someday.......

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 10 years ago

TruePoint wrote:What is the point of criticizing X at this point? He's got 7 or 8 games left in a Rams uniform. I'm not saying some of the criticism isn't warranted, it just isn't productive. X came into this program at one of its lowest points and has been an enormous credit to the program on and off the court for two years, at times the only bright spot on the team. I'd rather just appreciate him for that than dump on him because he isn't the best clutch player of all time.

Well said...totally agree with all of this.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 10 years ago

I don't think I've been positive after a loss all year or even after most of our close wins, but for some reason I felt optimistic after this one. EC is a star. Hassy gets better every game and I feel like we're starting to see that Hurley toughness we all expected. Even with all hands on deck, we wouldn't have had a good pg this year but the loss of the only two returning frontcourt players (Aaman and I'm not saying his name) really killed the season but it will be better. Also, I actually think playing point has really hurt TJ's game, maybe his leg issues have something to do with it but he's not making all of those dynamic hustle plays he was early in the year. Overall, even though I hate "moral victories", I can see it coming together. We'll add some frontcourt depth next year and then we just need a point guard to fall off a truck or something.

BUT why are we still getting killed with lazy perimeter passing?