the ARCH-itect !

[RhowdyRam02]

For all intents and purposes Jim Baron executed a quick turnaround and how did that turn out. Inherited the Jerry D dumpster fire and had the team in NIT in 2nd year. I just keep being reminded of the “we will be good when we’re good” from the press conference. Archie seems to have his own timetable and a clear manner in which he wants to get there. We shall see.

Most of Baron's turnaround was executed with players he inherited from Jerry D. Brian Woodward was 1st in points and rebounds per game and 2nd in assists. Howard Smith was 1st in assists, 4th in rebounds. Lazare Adingono was 3rd in points, 2nd in rebounds. All three and Steve Mello were guys that he inherited. That's a solid core for year two of a turnaround. Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year two

[Jersey77]

I have never said that I expected Archie to deliver a national championship by year 2. Being facetious here lol.

But what i didnt expect were performances like we just saw the last two games.

It's not just black and white as in wins and losses. It's how we play that's more important right now. Growing pains are to be expected of course.

We aren't a blue blood who can attract top talent and get good right away. I know this.

Archie knows how to coach. He knows what's wrong and can see what he needs.

I just thought we shouldn't be having these issues to this extent. Archie should and will be judged by the talent he brings in here over the next couple of years.

Meanwhile he needs to figure out how to get the best out of what he has. He needs to do a better job of that.

That's all.

None of us expected that bad of a beatdown those last 2 games.

Starting tomorrow we need to turn it around and look more like the team that previously won 4 straight.

That should automatically happen. We just played the toughest two game stretch on our schedule, going back to back on the road to two of the top 3 homecourt advantages in the conference against teams ranked 14th and 81st in the NET

Yeah, I didn't expect us to win those games, but I was hoping we would have made it competitive.
I was especially disappointed with our defensive effort and so was Archie.

To me the Bonnies have underperformed so far this season and lost their last 2 games since beating us.

Also remember Fordham did beat the Bonnies in Olean 80-74.
I still feel we win tonight at the RC.

[RhowdyRam02]

No matter how disappointing it can be at times, you have to give a new coach 3-4 years to rebuild.

I think the environment has changed...and everyone is still trying to figure out just how many years it should take.
This is not the same era in which Hurls took over. Seems if you're going to be good these days, it should happen quicker than it used to.

Yes and no. The first thought is that with free transferring you should be able to turn it around quicker, but it's a double edged sword. It makes it harder to build when you've got a losing team and players decide to move on to a team that's winning instead of building the program

[bigappleram]

For all intents and purposes Jim Baron executed a quick turnaround and how did that turn out. Inherited the Jerry D dumpster fire and had the team in NIT in 2nd year. I just keep being reminded of the “we will be good when we’re good” from the press conference. Archie seems to have his own timetable and a clear manner in which he wants to get there. We shall see.

Most of Baron's turnaround was executed with players he inherited from Jerry D. Brian Woodward was 1st in points and rebounds per game and 2nd in assists. Howard Smith was 1st in assists, 4th in rebounds. Lazare Adingono was 3rd in points, 2nd in rebounds. All three and Steve Mello were guys that he inherited. That's a solid core for year two of a turnaround. Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year two

I’ll give you Woodward, he was a dog and really good.
But I think calling those other guys a “strong core” is a massive stretch. That was a fairly remarkable turnaround given the circumstances of what Baron had inherited.

[RhowdyRam02]

The three guys I mentioned were 1st and 3rd in points, 1st and 2nd in assists, and 1st, 2nd, and 4th in rebounds. There was talent here, it was just impossible to see how it would be a team because Jerry D was so bad.

Imagine how much different Archie's rebuild would be looking if he inherited those type of players

[bigappleram]

The three guys I mentioned were 1st and 3rd in points, 1st and 2nd in assists, and 1st, 2nd, and 4th in rebounds. There was talent here, it was just impossible to see how it would be a team because Jerry D was so bad.

Imagine how much different Archie's rebuild would be looking if he inherited those type of players

How they ranked in stats on a poor team isn't really a reflection of their talent level tho. It just illustrates how talent poor that crew was.
Howie Smith averaged 3 ppg as a senior PG. Steve is from my hometown and I have known him since he was a kid and got nothing but love but wasn't he a walk on? Lazare was serviceable but Archie inherited Ish who was 10x the player to them. Malik is prob similar to Lazare. I don't think Archie inherited much don't get me wrong, but neither did Baron. The program was a complete and total dumpster fire.

[RhodyKyle]

See? You two can have a civil conversation while disagreeing.

Now shake hands and hug it out, bitch.

[RJRam]

IMO, this team desperately needs a strong, athletic, 6'9 or taller, big. It appears that Joe will not play any more this season. His absence killed last season and looks to do the same to this season. Brown and Fuchs are not able to make other teams worry about attacking the rim. Our defense would improve immediately.

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

Another example that all rebuilds don’t take 3-4+ years. Won tonight against Kentucky.

I'm looking for the post that states "all rebuilding take 3-4 years." I can't find it. Let me know if you can find it.

I don't think it's unreasonable for those of us stating that we'll give a coach 4-years to pass judgment on his rebuild. (That's a lot different than people saying all rebuilds take 3-4 years.)

And for clarification...did Frank Martin rebuild the South Carolina basketball factory or tear it down?

[Rhody_NYCT]

Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.

[PeterRamTime]

Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.

Unless you're so bad it's clear you have to move on before they get to year 4. Every rebuild has a different context.

[reef]

It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins

The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.

Unless you're so bad it's clear you have to move on before they get to year 4. Every rebuild has a different context.

Agree, there are occasional exceptions. (DePaul just let go of Tony Stubblefield. URI let go of Jerry D.)

This is the middle of Archie's 2nd year...we're in pretty standard territory right now.

[ramster]

It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins

The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time

The key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins

The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time

The key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn

I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.

[ramster]

It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins

The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time

The key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn

I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.

It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?

[Rhody15]

The key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn

I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.

It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?

This is 100% wrong.

Conferences control how they determine their automatic qualifier.

The A10 can choose to reward the regular season champion with an automatic bid.

Obviously the conference tournament is used for exposure, money, etc.

[ramster]

I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.

It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?

This is 100% wrong.

Conferences control how they determine their automatic qualifier.

The A10 can choose to reward the regular season champion with an automatic bid.

Obviously the conference tournament is used for exposure, money, etc.

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament? Should be quick and easy seeing as how I’m 100% wrong.

In addition, I was talking about the A10. Did not realize I had to be specific that the Conferences control this. Hard to imagine a Conference holding a Conference Tournament at the end of the season but not awarding the AQ, I assume they give it to the Conference Season Standings Champ instead?

That’s some wild thinking

[Rhody15]

It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?

This is 100% wrong.

Conferences control how they determine their automatic qualifier.

The A10 can choose to reward the regular season champion with an automatic bid.

Obviously the conference tournament is used for exposure, money, etc.

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament? Should be quick and easy seeing as how I’m 100% wrong.

In addition, I was talking about the A10. Did not realize I had to be specific that the Conferences control this. Hard to imagine a Conference holding a Conference Tournament at the end of the season but not awarding the AQ, I assume they give it to the Conference Season Standings Champ instead?

That’s some wild thinking

The Ivy League didn’t for years, just recently introduced a conference tournament. They awarded it to regular season champion.

Again, it’s very obvious as to why everyone does a conference tournament, but it is not the only way to award an automatic birth.

Conferences do not need to hold a conference tournament.

[RI_Bred]

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament?

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

[Rhody15]

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament?

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

[ramster]

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament?

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Nope.
Ivy goes with the Top 4 Finishers in the Regular Season
They play a single elimination tournament
Ivy started this in 2017

[Rhody15]

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament?

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Nope.
Ivy goes with the Top 4 Finishers in the Regular Season
They play a single elimination tournament
Ivy started this in 2017

You saying a conference tourney is the only way to an automatic bid is wrong though.

Dead wrong.

Conference tournaments to determine an auto bid are not mandatory.

You can’t argue it, but you’re trying to like always.

[ramster]

Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament?

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament in today’s NCAA world of 68 Teams?

[Rhody15]

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament?

Are you drunk?

I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”

No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.

However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.

You’re like talking to a wall man.

[Rhody15]

I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament in today’s NCAA world of 68 Teams?

And if you want to get technical, teams moving up from D2 in their probation phase that win their conference tourney do not get the auto bid.

That goes to the other team who made the final or regular season champ, I’m not sure which one.

[ramster]

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament?

Are you drunk?

I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”

No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.

However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.

You’re like talking to a wall man.

You got that right. Absolutely
I am talking to the thickest wall on this message board.

Fact is my commentary was about the A10

You took the liberty to expand it beyond the A10 which I have no idea why……oh wait, yes I do - to create something out of nothing.

Fact is all conferences award the AQ to the Post Season winner. Can they chose to award it differently? No idea, don’t care, it’s completely irrelevant since it doesn’t happen any other way.

IMG_2049.jpeg (27.98 KiB) Viewed 879 times

[RhodyKyle]

Yup, read my post above.

They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament?

Are you drunk?

I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”

No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.

However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.

You’re like talking to a wall man.

Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206

[NYGFan_Section208]

wrong. Ivy went to a 4 team Tournament in 2017

So which conferences award the AQ in a manner other than the End of Season Conference Tournament?

Are you drunk?

I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”

No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.

However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.

You’re like talking to a wall man.

Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206

cough, no one cares...cough, cough...

[NYGFan_Section208]

Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.

In this era of free agency, 4 years seems to be an arbitrary timeframe, not a developmental one.
To be really good, I don't know that you need to actually develop players now...
With all the player movement now, you could suck for 3 years, hit the portalpalooza lottery for year 4 and do a 180.

[RhodyKyle]

Are you drunk?

I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”

No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.

However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.

You’re like talking to a wall man.

Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206

cough, no one cares...cough, cough...

Those two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.

[ramster]

Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206

cough, no one cares...cough, cough...

Those two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.

Actually I only said winning the A10 is the only way to get the AQ in response to PMMM comment to me.

Then it went for some weird reason to how I was wrong in that Conferences do not have to award the AQ to the Conference winner - the Conference can chose to award to the Regular Season Conf winner (not the Tournament winner. Not sure what that has to do with anything in the at hand discussion.

But you can continue the discussion with Rhody 15 with the NCAA bylaws or whatever. Pretty weird stuff.

Maybe the Battleaxe is thinking of making a change? Nah, note to self - she doesn’t change anything. We are safe.



It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference.

[ramster]

Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206

cough, no one cares...cough, cough...

Those two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.

Nope. Nobody cares is right.

[Coach_NDuke]

"Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year two." Ish left for the reasons stated, all others from season one were pushed into the portal. This year. filled with DAWGs, but not in sync because everyone is new and possibly personal agendas. Winning may not matter to some players, but their stats help determine where they go next. I'm not sure there is any pressure on Archie....he is wealthy, and this stint will net him $5M+ regardless of success. He already won the lottery! Let's see the kind of relationships he builds with players or not. I may be naive, but the end of season wins and losses do not matter as much as whether loyalty and trust have been built with this team. if there is a mass exodus or players are pushed out again, then every season will be a transfer portal crap shoot. Afterall, Archie didnt want Ish to leave. He may not want Cam or Fuchs to leave, but as some sports announcers have stated, they could play for any A10 or a step higher.