Conference Realignment

[Blue Man]

"-Arena size is irrelevant. You build an arena to fit the needs and the demand. (what's the season ticket base, where do ticket holders live, what's the potential ticket base if the school consistently wins, should it be a multi-purpose facility, is there even land to build a larger arena, etc.)"

Season ticket base, where do ticket holders live, and what's the potential ticket base if the school consistently wins all seem like very important factors in deciding what conference a school belongs in. If a school doesn't have a big enough fanbase buying tickets they're not going to have the money to compete long-term in this conference. There's a reason why La Salle, Fordham, and Duquesne are consistently near the bottom, why Dayton and VCU are consistently near the top, and programs like St. Louis, Rhode Island, and Richmond are mid-pack programs that bounce all around the standings.

Arena size says a lot about a program. Part of the design process is studying what your fan base is and what it could be under optimal conditions. That Loyola has about 4500 seats for a home gym, with the same student enrollment as URI, in the third most populous city in the country, with no plans to expand, and an average attendance below UMass says everything about that program, and none of it is good

So we have a difference of opinion. I think how nice an arena is more important than the size of the arena. To me, that's more of a reflection of the university's commitment to its basketball program. Kudos to Loyola for reimagining and redesigning their basketball arena into a top-flight basketball arena. Loyola's campus is very difficult to get to for any alumni living in the suburbs, especially on weeknights.

In the same city, UIC plays in the former UIC Pavilion. UIC has 22K undergrads and their arena holds 9,500. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 people would tell you that Loyola's Gentile Center is a far better basketball arena.

Build an arena too big and you have the Mullins Center. Sure, it was filled in the Camby hey-days. But otherwise, it's a ghost town. St. John's is in NYC, enrollment 16,000 undergrads and has Carnesecca Arena with a capacity of 5,600. What does that say about St. John's program?

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

There are a lot of "better" smaller arenas - but that's missing the point. It isn't all one thing or another. You can have a small arena and a good program overall - like Gonzaga. You can have a big arena and be irrelevant, like Siena.

This is losing the point. Loyola is not a "make your conference better" type program.

They're an academically focused school with a fanbase of nerds who do not care about sports or basketball in particular.

This is pointed out in easy examples like the fact that they can't routinely fill up their very small arena even when they are a very good program (that one time). The rest of the time they cannot recruit the kind of talent to sustain a good record throughout a better conference than the Horizon or MVC. Good basketball players don't want to go to miserable tightly fisted academic schools.

Basically, the battle axe grabbed a team that had one hot streak to the final four but otherwise isn't a good program to have on your schedule.

We grabbed them because of their "exception" season, not the rule.

Now we have a new media contract that still pays a pittance, and an NCAA sharing policy where everyone gets an equal share. AKA we have no way to incentivize any legitimate basketball programs to join us - or worse, keep the few flagship programs we have.

Great job!

[RhowdyRam02]

Not for nothing but you oppose the flagship university having branding in the major gateway to the state (TF Green) because in your opinion people are in a bad mood at the airport. That's so ridiculous it can't even be argued against. Talking down anyone else's intelligence might be a step too far. And 77 is clearly a massive fan the teardown on this topic is uncalled for.

Caught a glimpse of that giant Providence Friars Wall mural many times the past few months. Wishing we had one.

As you walk the decline corridor towards final exit Matunuck Oyster Bar has about 10 beautiful pictures on the wall showing how the oysters and vegetables are grown, harvested and prepared for customers to eat. Very nicely done and a nice welcome to RI. Perry Raso gets it.

Plus I don’t get this people in a bad mood thing at the airport. I find it a pleasant place. Enjoy time there. So easy to get to and they are improving the appearance along the Airport Connector for people visiting RI.

Love returning from a flight, going down the escalator, see all the people waiting at the bottom to hug loved ones and the piano player is such a wonderful, unique, only in RI touch. Even returning at midnight the piano player is there. And at Christmas time it’s a busy but great place.

I hope we get a promotion there someday.

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

[bigappleram]

Caught a glimpse of that giant Providence Friars Wall mural many times the past few months. Wishing we had one.

As you walk the decline corridor towards final exit Matunuck Oyster Bar has about 10 beautiful pictures on the wall showing how the oysters and vegetables are grown, harvested and prepared for customers to eat. Very nicely done and a nice welcome to RI. Perry Raso gets it.

Plus I don’t get this people in a bad mood thing at the airport. I find it a pleasant place. Enjoy time there. So easy to get to and they are improving the appearance along the Airport Connector for people visiting RI.

Love returning from a flight, going down the escalator, see all the people waiting at the bottom to hug loved ones and the piano player is such a wonderful, unique, only in RI touch. Even returning at midnight the piano player is there. And at Christmas time it’s a busy but great place.

I hope we get a promotion there someday.

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

LOL you're a joke.

I work in marketing so no Don Draper wannabe here. All of my work is measured and you might be surprised to know that Fortune 500 companies just don't throw money in the air without ROI for anyone or anything. Such simplistic thinking is indicative of a simple mind so this probably all goes over your head. And I guess someone was paying attention to the airport advertising since Ramster called it out.

The most dangerous people are the ones who don't know what they don't know.

[Jersey77]

So we have a difference of opinion. I think how nice an arena is more important than the size of the arena. To me, that's more of a reflection of the university's commitment to its basketball program. Kudos to Loyola for reimagining and redesigning their basketball arena into a top-flight basketball arena. Loyola's campus is very difficult to get to for any alumni living in the suburbs, especially on weeknights.

In the same city, UIC plays in the former UIC Pavilion. UIC has 22K undergrads and their arena holds 9,500. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 people would tell you that Loyola's Gentile Center is a far better basketball arena.

Build an arena too big and you have the Mullins Center. Sure, it was filled in the Camby hey-days. But otherwise, it's a ghost town. St. John's is in NYC, enrollment 16,000 undergrads and has Carnesecca Arena with a capacity of 5,600. What does that say about St. John's program?

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

There are a lot of "better" smaller arenas - but that's missing the point. It isn't all one thing or another. You can have a small arena and a good program overall - like Gonzaga. You can have a big arena and be irrelevant, like Siena.

This is losing the point. Loyola is not a "make your conference better" type program.

They're an academically focused school with a fanbase of nerds who do not care about sports or basketball in particular.

This is pointed out in easy examples like the fact that they can't routinely fill up their very small arena even when they are a very good program (that one time). The rest of the time they cannot recruit the kind of talent to sustain a good record throughout a better conference than the Horizon or MVC. Good basketball players don't want to go to miserable tightly fisted academic schools.

Basically, the battle axe grabbed a team that had one hot streak to the final four but otherwise isn't a good program to have on your schedule.

We grabbed them because of their "exception" season, not the rule.

Now we have a new media contract that still pays a pittance, and an NCAA sharing policy where everyone gets an equal share. AKA we have no way to incentivize any legitimate basketball programs to join us - or worse, keep the few flagship programs we have.

Great job!

Blue Man, it seems we will never agree on this.

The entire A10 membership not only bought into adding Loyola but wanted them, including our friend Thorr.

Don't get so hung up on the $, that isn't your concern, leave that up to those who manage it.

Besides the top tier teams that may or may not leave, will be gone in a heartbeat anyway if they get a BE invite.
We all understand the situation with UMass.

[Blue Man]

Caught a glimpse of that giant Providence Friars Wall mural many times the past few months. Wishing we had one.

As you walk the decline corridor towards final exit Matunuck Oyster Bar has about 10 beautiful pictures on the wall showing how the oysters and vegetables are grown, harvested and prepared for customers to eat. Very nicely done and a nice welcome to RI. Perry Raso gets it.

Plus I don’t get this people in a bad mood thing at the airport. I find it a pleasant place. Enjoy time there. So easy to get to and they are improving the appearance along the Airport Connector for people visiting RI.

Love returning from a flight, going down the escalator, see all the people waiting at the bottom to hug loved ones and the piano player is such a wonderful, unique, only in RI touch. Even returning at midnight the piano player is there. And at Christmas time it’s a busy but great place.

I hope we get a promotion there someday.

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

[RhowdyRam02]

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

LOL you're a joke.

I work in marketing so no Don Draper wannabe here. All of my work is measured and you might be surprised to know that Fortune 500 companies just don't throw money in the air without ROI for anyone or anything. Such simplistic thinking is indicative of a simple mind so this probably all goes over your head. And I guess someone was paying attention to the airport advertising since Ramster called it out.

The most dangerous people are the ones who don't know what they don't know.

Yeah, I love appeal to authority arguments. Because companies are always well run, never make mistakes, and their marketing is always spot on. How much money did Bud Light make in 2023 over 2022 with their always well run marketing?

[RhowdyRam02]

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

I let the first one go earlier this week, but if BAR wants to go to war so be it. He can go look for the tallest, widest cell phone tower in the world and shove it up his ass

[bigappleram]

Someone needs to tell Apple, Nike and McDonald's that marketing doesn't work. Those dumb people running those companies could save all that money, hire RhodyRam and see their market cap soar.

And BlueMan marketing is just 1 piece of the pie not the end all be all. But to build a brand you need a great product and then all the other things including marketing operating in a world class way. The in-game experience, the broadcast experience, the promotion in the market, etc. They matter to recruits, to casual fans and to alums.

[bigappleram]

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

LOL you're a joke.

I work in marketing so no Don Draper wannabe here. All of my work is measured and you might be surprised to know that Fortune 500 companies just don't throw money in the air without ROI for anyone or anything. Such simplistic thinking is indicative of a simple mind so this probably all goes over your head. And I guess someone was paying attention to the airport advertising since Ramster called it out.

The most dangerous people are the ones who don't know what they don't know.

Yeah, I love appeal to authority arguments. Because companies are always well run, never make mistakes, and their marketing is always spot on. How much money did Bud Light make in 2023 over 2022 with their always well run marketing?

If marketing doesn't work and no one pays attention then why did a horrendous marketing decision tank a brand?

[bigappleram]

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

I let the first one go earlier this week, but if BAR wants to go to war so be it. He can go look for the tallest, widest cell phone tower in the world and shove it up his ass

A lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of a sheep. You have some anger mgmt issues to work out. We're done here.

[RhodyKyle]

The most dangerous people are the ones who don't know what they don't know.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain(?)

[RhowdyRam02]

LOL you're a joke.

I work in marketing so no Don Draper wannabe here. All of my work is measured and you might be surprised to know that Fortune 500 companies just don't throw money in the air without ROI for anyone or anything. Such simplistic thinking is indicative of a simple mind so this probably all goes over your head. And I guess someone was paying attention to the airport advertising since Ramster called it out.

The most dangerous people are the ones who don't know what they don't know.

Yeah, I love appeal to authority arguments. Because companies are always well run, never make mistakes, and their marketing is always spot on. How much money did Bud Light make in 2023 over 2022 with their always well run marketing?

If marketing doesn't work and no one pays attention then why did a horrendous marketing decision tank a brand?

Don Draper wannabe says Bud Light did just great. Marketing!

[bigappleram]

Yeah, I love appeal to authority arguments. Because companies are always well run, never make mistakes, and their marketing is always spot on. How much money did Bud Light make in 2023 over 2022 with their always well run marketing?

If marketing doesn't work and no one pays attention then why did a horrendous marketing decision tank a brand?

Don Draper wannabe says Bud Light did just great. Marketing!

Yeah, um, that's not what I said. RIF

[NYGFan_Section208]

Yeah, I love appeal to authority arguments. Because companies are always well run, never make mistakes, and their marketing is always spot on. How much money did Bud Light make in 2023 over 2022 with their always well run marketing?

If marketing doesn't work and no one pays attention then why did a horrendous marketing decision tank a brand?

Don Draper wannabe says Bud Light did just great. Marketing!

Or... possibly everyone realized at once that what they were drinking was like carbonated urine flavored water?

[RhowdyRam02]

If marketing doesn't work and no one pays attention then why did a horrendous marketing decision tank a brand?

Don Draper wannabe says Bud Light did just great. Marketing!

Yeah, um, that's not what I said. RIF

I thought we were done here. You recited a great lion speech and everything. Honestly that was easier than I thought

[Blue Man]

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

There are a lot of "better" smaller arenas - but that's missing the point. It isn't all one thing or another. You can have a small arena and a good program overall - like Gonzaga. You can have a big arena and be irrelevant, like Siena.

This is losing the point. Loyola is not a "make your conference better" type program.

They're an academically focused school with a fanbase of nerds who do not care about sports or basketball in particular.

This is pointed out in easy examples like the fact that they can't routinely fill up their very small arena even when they are a very good program (that one time). The rest of the time they cannot recruit the kind of talent to sustain a good record throughout a better conference than the Horizon or MVC. Good basketball players don't want to go to miserable tightly fisted academic schools.

Basically, the battle axe grabbed a team that had one hot streak to the final four but otherwise isn't a good program to have on your schedule.

We grabbed them because of their "exception" season, not the rule.

Now we have a new media contract that still pays a pittance, and an NCAA sharing policy where everyone gets an equal share. AKA we have no way to incentivize any legitimate basketball programs to join us - or worse, keep the few flagship programs we have.

Great job!

Blue Man, it seems we will never agree on this.

The entire A10 membership not only bought into adding Loyola but wanted them, including our friend Thorr.

Don't get so hung up on the $, that isn't your concern, leave that up to those who manage it.

Besides the top tier teams that may or may not leave, will be gone in a heartbeat anyway if they get a BE invite.
We all understand the situation with UMass.

Yeah man. And I think the entire A10 membership is wrong on this - as they have been pretty much in every step of realignment.

Thorr isn't a university president, first of all, so he does not get a vote #1.

#2, they vote additions for ALL sports - not just basketball. Maybe it's a positive for all sports. But I'm not up on collegiate women's softball or the innerworkings of swimming and diving. I don't care about all sports, I care about basketball. They're an overall irrelevant basketball program that doesn't help the A10 be a better basketball conference for those aspiring to NCAA bids.

#3, you can't really be a fly in the ointment during this realignment shuffle when you don't have a ton of leverage. Dayton or VCU are really the only programs with any leverage right now. Had we kept Dan happy and here maybe we would be. If we get good with Archie and invest to keep him, then we'll have leverage again. So no, we can't vote against the consensus and risk being without a dance partner.

The $$ is my concern because that's EVERYTHING in collegiate basketball and how realignment happens. Dayton and VCU are the only name brands in this conference right now and a better financial offer externally could sway them to leave. Why do you think Gonzaga stays in the WAC when they are head and shoulders better? They're a P5 school that is routinely a national championship contender (that gets really good seeding, thus lots of NCAA credits, by beating up on said conference and then loses every time they play a legit team).

The WAC gave a deal where Gonzaga gets to keep more of the NCAA money they make, rather than the 50/50 split we see in the A10.

Oh, as as the A10 grows and grows that share gets smaller and smaller for everyone else.

And since we keep adding bad teams, leaving landmines for the conference to lose to and drop our collective NET rankings, we now get worse seeding and play tougher games, making it harder to get more wins and credits. Thus less money for everyone.

SO - I just hope that we're having back channel discussions with Dayton and VCU and trying to stay ahead of things because if the A10 loses those programs, we are the MVC or Horizon and everything we love will turn to shit.

I'd rather leave with the like-minded schools to form a new conference, rather than sink with the lead weights we have around our ankles.

[RF1]

The A-10 team which earns the NCAA units gets a much larger portion of the NCAA units it earned with the rest being distributed to the conference HQ and other member schools. It is not an even distribution to schools such as the case with one bid leagues such as the America East.

[RhowdyRam02]

There are a lot of "better" smaller arenas - but that's missing the point. It isn't all one thing or another. You can have a small arena and a good program overall - like Gonzaga. You can have a big arena and be irrelevant, like Siena.

This is losing the point. Loyola is not a "make your conference better" type program.

They're an academically focused school with a fanbase of nerds who do not care about sports or basketball in particular.

This is pointed out in easy examples like the fact that they can't routinely fill up their very small arena even when they are a very good program (that one time). The rest of the time they cannot recruit the kind of talent to sustain a good record throughout a better conference than the Horizon or MVC. Good basketball players don't want to go to miserable tightly fisted academic schools.

Basically, the battle axe grabbed a team that had one hot streak to the final four but otherwise isn't a good program to have on your schedule.

We grabbed them because of their "exception" season, not the rule.

Now we have a new media contract that still pays a pittance, and an NCAA sharing policy where everyone gets an equal share. AKA we have no way to incentivize any legitimate basketball programs to join us - or worse, keep the few flagship programs we have.

Great job!

Blue Man, it seems we will never agree on this.

The entire A10 membership not only bought into adding Loyola but wanted them, including our friend Thorr.

Don't get so hung up on the $, that isn't your concern, leave that up to those who manage it.

Besides the top tier teams that may or may not leave, will be gone in a heartbeat anyway if they get a BE invite.
We all understand the situation with UMass.

Yeah man. And I think the entire A10 membership is wrong on this - as they have been pretty much in every step of realignment.

Thorr isn't a university president, first of all, so he does not get a vote #1.

#2, they vote additions for ALL sports - not just basketball. Maybe it's a positive for all sports. But I'm not up on collegiate women's softball or the innerworkings of swimming and diving. I don't care about all sports, I care about basketball. They're an overall irrelevant basketball program that doesn't help the A10 be a better basketball conference for those aspiring to NCAA bids.

#3, you can't really be a fly in the ointment during this realignment shuffle when you don't have a ton of leverage. Dayton or VCU are really the only programs with any leverage right now. Had we kept Dan happy and here maybe we would be. If we get good with Archie and invest to keep him, then we'll have leverage again. So no, we can't vote against the consensus and risk being without a dance partner.

The $$ is my concern because that's EVERYTHING in collegiate basketball and how realignment happens. Dayton and VCU are the only name brands in this conference right now and a better financial offer externally could sway them to leave. Why do you think Gonzaga stays in the WAC when they are head and shoulders better? They're a P5 school that is routinely a national championship contender (that gets really good seeding, thus lots of NCAA credits, by beating up on said conference and then loses every time they play a legit team).

The WAC gave a deal where Gonzaga gets to keep more of the NCAA money they make, rather than the 50/50 split we see in the A10.

Oh, as as the A10 grows and grows that share gets smaller and smaller for everyone else.

And since we keep adding bad teams, leaving landmines for the conference to lose to and drop our collective NET rankings, we now get worse seeding and play tougher games, making it harder to get more wins and credits. Thus less money for everyone.

SO - I just hope that we're having back channel discussions with Dayton and VCU and trying to stay ahead of things because if the A10 loses those programs, we are the MVC or Horizon and everything we love will turn to shit.

I'd rather leave with the like-minded schools to form a new conference, rather than sink with the lead weights we have around our ankles.

There's also a difference between unanimous behind closed doors when the vote is taking place and unanimous in the press release. Most times after the vote has taken place and the result is secured they give every school a chance to get on board. What's happening in the ACC now is the exception, not the rule. For instance, nobody believes that Texas A&M actually voted in favor of Texas joining the SEC, but once Texas was in A&M played the good soldier for the public.

That's a long way of saying we don't actually know if URI voted in favor of adding Loyola

[Jersey77]

There are a lot of "better" smaller arenas - but that's missing the point. It isn't all one thing or another. You can have a small arena and a good program overall - like Gonzaga. You can have a big arena and be irrelevant, like Siena.

This is losing the point. Loyola is not a "make your conference better" type program.

They're an academically focused school with a fanbase of nerds who do not care about sports or basketball in particular.

This is pointed out in easy examples like the fact that they can't routinely fill up their very small arena even when they are a very good program (that one time). The rest of the time they cannot recruit the kind of talent to sustain a good record throughout a better conference than the Horizon or MVC. Good basketball players don't want to go to miserable tightly fisted academic schools.

Basically, the battle axe grabbed a team that had one hot streak to the final four but otherwise isn't a good program to have on your schedule.

We grabbed them because of their "exception" season, not the rule.

Now we have a new media contract that still pays a pittance, and an NCAA sharing policy where everyone gets an equal share. AKA we have no way to incentivize any legitimate basketball programs to join us - or worse, keep the few flagship programs we have.

Great job!

Blue Man, it seems we will never agree on this.

The entire A10 membership not only bought into adding Loyola but wanted them, including our friend Thorr.

Don't get so hung up on the $, that isn't your concern, leave that up to those who manage it.

Besides the top tier teams that may or may not leave, will be gone in a heartbeat anyway if they get a BE invite.
We all understand the situation with UMass.

Yeah man. And I think the entire A10 membership is wrong on this - as they have been pretty much in every step of realignment.

Thorr isn't a university president, first of all, so he does not get a vote #1.

#2, they vote additions for ALL sports - not just basketball. Maybe it's a positive for all sports. But I'm not up on collegiate women's softball or the innerworkings of swimming and diving. I don't care about all sports, I care about basketball. They're an overall irrelevant basketball program that doesn't help the A10 be a better basketball conference for those aspiring to NCAA bids.

#3, you can't really be a fly in the ointment during this realignment shuffle when you don't have a ton of leverage. Dayton or VCU are really the only programs with any leverage right now. Had we kept Dan happy and here maybe we would be. If we get good with Archie and invest to keep him, then we'll have leverage again. So no, we can't vote against the consensus and risk being without a dance partner.

The $$ is my concern because that's EVERYTHING in collegiate basketball and how realignment happens. Dayton and VCU are the only name brands in this conference right now and a better financial offer externally could sway them to leave. Why do you think Gonzaga stays in the WAC when they are head and shoulders better? They're a P5 school that is routinely a national championship contender (that gets really good seeding, thus lots of NCAA credits, by beating up on said conference and then loses every time they play a legit team).

The WAC gave a deal where Gonzaga gets to keep more of the NCAA money they make, rather than the 50/50 split we see in the A10.

Oh, as as the A10 grows and grows that share gets smaller and smaller for everyone else.

And since we keep adding bad teams, leaving landmines for the conference to lose to and drop our collective NET rankings, we now get worse seeding and play tougher games, making it harder to get more wins and credits. Thus less money for everyone.

SO - I just hope that we're having back channel discussions with Dayton and VCU and trying to stay ahead of things because if the A10 loses those programs, we are the MVC or Horizon and everything we love will turn to shit.

I'd rather leave with the like-minded schools to form a new conference, rather than sink with the lead weights we have around our ankles.

Thorr didn't vote, but all the president's consulted with their AD's before making the decision.
Plus Thorr who was Chair of the A10 AD's had a major voice in this.

Look things aren't playing out well for almost all of the mid-majors.
Not much you can do with limited resources to insulate yourself.

It is very difficult for us to add flagship programs, plus compete with the $ to hold on to the top schools we have.
Not a great situation.

I must say though adding VCU in 2012 was a big win.

[steviep123]

Nobody gets the "everyone is in a bad mood so the advertising doesn't work" comment...it's right up there with 72s Jimmy Baron free throw advice as one for the ages.

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

[bigappleram]

Don Draper wannabe says Bud Light did just great. Marketing!

Yeah, um, that's not what I said. RIF

I thought we were done here. You recited a great lion speech and everything. Honestly that was easier than I thought

I just blew a few million dollars of my client's budget and slugged a six pack of bud light so I figured what the hell might as well re-engage with an internet tough guy

[McRam]

Stevie, u r right. It sounds like just ANOTHER missed marketing opportunity!

[RhowdyRam02]

I said that people are in a bad mood in traffic on 95, I said that no one is paying attention at the baggage claim in the airport, they're looking for their bag to leave.

I get that you're a Don Draper wannabe fraudster, so you love highway billboards and airport signage. You can soak your clients for all they're worth and don't have to prove any kind of actual success with your marketing, but here in the real world with real people negative opinions to advertising are a thing

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

[bigappleram]

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

Do you not understand the difference between direct response marketing and branding? Rhetorical question. Different mediums different objectives. Go back to the kid’s table.

[Rhody15]

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

Boggles my mind how you continue to think URI having some sort branding at the airport would be a bad idea.

[RhowdyRam02]

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

Boggles my mind how you continue to think URI having some sort branding at the airport would be a bad idea.

We don't have the monetary resources PC has so we can't throw away our precious advertising dollars on a vanity campaign that brings no money in. If we had PC's money that might be a different conversation, though even then I'd want us to use our money better

[RhowdyRam02]

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

Do you not understand the difference between direct response marketing and branding? Rhetorical question. Different mediums different objectives. Go back to the kid’s table.

What's this, the third response to me since you were done with me? I think you were confused with who the lion is in this conversation. I'll play with my food as long as I want and you're too obsessed with me to do anything about it

[bigappleram]

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

Do you not understand the difference between direct response marketing and branding? Rhetorical question. Different mediums different objectives. Go back to the kid’s table.

What's this, the third response to me since you were done with me? I think you were confused with who the lion is in this conversation. I'll play with my food as long as I want and you're too obsessed with me to do anything about it

Don Draper wannabe here, in this small focus group of opinion you've been thoroughly defeated. Carry on tough guy. I'm in 212 if you ever want to call me a fraud to my face. Row D.

[RhowdyRam02]

I'm the tough guy with an anger issue says the clown who wants to fight in the Ryan Center. Don't you have a cell phone tower you need to find fuckstick?

[bigappleram]

I'm the tough guy with an anger issue says the clown who wants to fight in the Ryan Center. Don't you have a cell phone tower you need to find fuckstick?

One of us has had to resort to personal attacks. Behind a screen. Meow.

[RhowdyRam02]

I'm the tough guy with an anger issue says the clown who wants to fight in the Ryan Center. Don't you have a cell phone tower you need to find fuckstick?

Now you're dismissed BAR

[Blue Man]

The A-10 team which earns the NCAA units gets a much larger portion of the NCAA units it earned with the rest being distributed to the conference HQ and other member schools. It is not an even distribution to schools such as the case with one bid leagues such as the America East.

Yes it's a 50/50 split - i.e. 50% to the winner, 50% to the conference coffers. That's standard for the majority of leagues. There are a few smaller conferences that do the fully even distribution because they're a true one bid where any one of them could qualify. So by this fact..the A10 is trying to be different than a one bid league - yet doing nothing in their conference membership to help that reality.

My point being is that Gonzaga has a different agreement where they keep a majority of the credits and share less. It's a huge advantage for them over joining a bigger conference where they'd have to give a 50/50 split.

The WAC is also protected by the fact that Gonzaga would have to walk away from all of that extra money if they were to leave - so it's sort of like a buyout clause that adds protection to their staying in the conference.

Dayton or VCU have to give 50% of their NCAA credits to schools that are actively hurting their NCAA chances and giving them worse seeds year in and year out like the bottom of our conference. Fordham? Does nothing but hurts you, here's 50% of our winnings. Duqeusne, never brought in a cent to the conference? Cool. Here's 50%. George Mason? Same thing? 50%. On and on and on.

If you want to be a different conference, you have to act differently.

We're just stuck in the middle of irrelevance.

[Blue Man]

Blue Man, it seems we will never agree on this.

The entire A10 membership not only bought into adding Loyola but wanted them, including our friend Thorr.

Don't get so hung up on the $, that isn't your concern, leave that up to those who manage it.

Besides the top tier teams that may or may not leave, will be gone in a heartbeat anyway if they get a BE invite.
We all understand the situation with UMass.

Yeah man. And I think the entire A10 membership is wrong on this - as they have been pretty much in every step of realignment.

Thorr isn't a university president, first of all, so he does not get a vote #1.

#2, they vote additions for ALL sports - not just basketball. Maybe it's a positive for all sports. But I'm not up on collegiate women's softball or the innerworkings of swimming and diving. I don't care about all sports, I care about basketball. They're an overall irrelevant basketball program that doesn't help the A10 be a better basketball conference for those aspiring to NCAA bids.

#3, you can't really be a fly in the ointment during this realignment shuffle when you don't have a ton of leverage. Dayton or VCU are really the only programs with any leverage right now. Had we kept Dan happy and here maybe we would be. If we get good with Archie and invest to keep him, then we'll have leverage again. So no, we can't vote against the consensus and risk being without a dance partner.

The $$ is my concern because that's EVERYTHING in collegiate basketball and how realignment happens. Dayton and VCU are the only name brands in this conference right now and a better financial offer externally could sway them to leave. Why do you think Gonzaga stays in the WAC when they are head and shoulders better? They're a P5 school that is routinely a national championship contender (that gets really good seeding, thus lots of NCAA credits, by beating up on said conference and then loses every time they play a legit team).

The WAC gave a deal where Gonzaga gets to keep more of the NCAA money they make, rather than the 50/50 split we see in the A10.

Oh, as as the A10 grows and grows that share gets smaller and smaller for everyone else.

And since we keep adding bad teams, leaving landmines for the conference to lose to and drop our collective NET rankings, we now get worse seeding and play tougher games, making it harder to get more wins and credits. Thus less money for everyone.

SO - I just hope that we're having back channel discussions with Dayton and VCU and trying to stay ahead of things because if the A10 loses those programs, we are the MVC or Horizon and everything we love will turn to shit.

I'd rather leave with the like-minded schools to form a new conference, rather than sink with the lead weights we have around our ankles.

Thorr didn't vote, but all the president's consulted with their AD's before making the decision.
Plus Thorr who was Chair of the A10 AD's had a major voice in this.

Look things aren't playing out well for almost all of the mid-majors.
Not much you can do with limited resources to insulate yourself.

It is very difficult for us to add flagship programs, plus compete with the $ to hold on to the top schools we have.
Not a great situation.

I must say though adding VCU in 2012 was a big win.

VCU was as big a win as keeping Butler for 1 year was a loss.

The conference is by far in a worse place from when battle axe bernadette took over. Not sure how she has continued to keep her job and why she was allowed to renegotiate this media contract.

The MWC has gotten SIGNFICANTLY stronger over this time period - obviously aided by football - which is another reason why the A10 needs to be zagging when others are zigging because we don't have football.

We're just falling behind and we have lukewarm leadership that isn't helping us be any better. We just keep sinking and adding more weights to the boat.

Unrelated - I'm not sure why BAR and RR02 are going at it this hard after an awesome win, but sitting on a cell phone tower is an alltimer and I keep getting a good giggle out of it.

[RhowdyRam02]

Yeah man. And I think the entire A10 membership is wrong on this - as they have been pretty much in every step of realignment.

Thorr isn't a university president, first of all, so he does not get a vote #1.

#2, they vote additions for ALL sports - not just basketball. Maybe it's a positive for all sports. But I'm not up on collegiate women's softball or the innerworkings of swimming and diving. I don't care about all sports, I care about basketball. They're an overall irrelevant basketball program that doesn't help the A10 be a better basketball conference for those aspiring to NCAA bids.

#3, you can't really be a fly in the ointment during this realignment shuffle when you don't have a ton of leverage. Dayton or VCU are really the only programs with any leverage right now. Had we kept Dan happy and here maybe we would be. If we get good with Archie and invest to keep him, then we'll have leverage again. So no, we can't vote against the consensus and risk being without a dance partner.

The $$ is my concern because that's EVERYTHING in collegiate basketball and how realignment happens. Dayton and VCU are the only name brands in this conference right now and a better financial offer externally could sway them to leave. Why do you think Gonzaga stays in the WAC when they are head and shoulders better? They're a P5 school that is routinely a national championship contender (that gets really good seeding, thus lots of NCAA credits, by beating up on said conference and then loses every time they play a legit team).

The WAC gave a deal where Gonzaga gets to keep more of the NCAA money they make, rather than the 50/50 split we see in the A10.

Oh, as as the A10 grows and grows that share gets smaller and smaller for everyone else.

And since we keep adding bad teams, leaving landmines for the conference to lose to and drop our collective NET rankings, we now get worse seeding and play tougher games, making it harder to get more wins and credits. Thus less money for everyone.

SO - I just hope that we're having back channel discussions with Dayton and VCU and trying to stay ahead of things because if the A10 loses those programs, we are the MVC or Horizon and everything we love will turn to shit.

I'd rather leave with the like-minded schools to form a new conference, rather than sink with the lead weights we have around our ankles.

Thorr didn't vote, but all the president's consulted with their AD's before making the decision.
Plus Thorr who was Chair of the A10 AD's had a major voice in this.

Look things aren't playing out well for almost all of the mid-majors.
Not much you can do with limited resources to insulate yourself.

It is very difficult for us to add flagship programs, plus compete with the $ to hold on to the top schools we have.
Not a great situation.

I must say though adding VCU in 2012 was a big win.

VCU was as big a win as keeping Butler for 1 year was a loss.

The conference is by far in a worse place from when battle axe bernadette took over. Not sure how she has continued to keep her job and why she was allowed to renegotiate this media contract.

The MWC has gotten SIGNFICANTLY stronger over this time period - obviously aided by football - which is another reason why the A10 needs to be zagging when others are zigging because we don't have football.

We're just falling behind and we have lukewarm leadership that isn't helping us be any better. We just keep sinking and adding more weights to the boat.

Unrelated - I'm not sure why BAR and RR02 are going at it this hard after an awesome win, but sitting on a cell phone tower is an alltimer and I keep getting a good giggle out of it.

Nevermind that the conference has been declining as of late. She's been in her position for 16 years now. Unless you're getting amazing results or there's something else compelling going on that's too long for someone to be in that position. You should be rotating in people with new energy and fresh ideas and perspectives, unless again the person is doing an amazing job, which she isn't

[RF1]

The A-10 team which earns the NCAA units gets a much larger portion of the NCAA units it earned with the rest being distributed to the conference HQ and other member schools. It is not an even distribution to schools such as the case with one bid leagues such as the America East.

Yes it's a 50/50 split - i.e. 50% to the winner, 50% to the conference coffers. That's standard for the majority of leagues. There are a few smaller conferences that do the fully even distribution because they're a true one bid where any one of them could qualify. So by this fact..the A10 is trying to be different than a one bid league - yet doing nothing in their conference membership to help that reality.

My point being is that Gonzaga has a different agreement where they keep a majority of the credits and share less. It's a huge advantage for them over joining a bigger conference where they'd have to give a 50/50 split.

The WAC is also protected by the fact that Gonzaga would have to walk away from all of that extra money if they were to leave - so it's sort of like a buyout clause that adds protection to their staying in the conference.

Dayton or VCU have to give 50% of their NCAA credits to schools that are actively hurting their NCAA chances and giving them worse seeds year in and year out like the bottom of our conference. Fordham? Does nothing but hurts you, here's 50% of our winnings. Duqeusne, never brought in a cent to the conference? Cool. Here's 50%. George Mason? Same thing? 50%. On and on and on.

If you want to be a different conference, you have to act differently.

We're just stuck in the middle of irrelevance.

I am trying to find references on the internet on the A-10 NCAA unit distribution formula but am not coming up with a lot of results. The link below is from an old thread from the A-10 forum on this topic. It does not agree with what you write. Can you provide a source for your contention?


https://www.basketballforum.com/threads ... ts.482378/

[RhowdyRam02]

The A-10 team which earns the NCAA units gets a much larger portion of the NCAA units it earned with the rest being distributed to the conference HQ and other member schools. It is not an even distribution to schools such as the case with one bid leagues such as the America East.

Yes it's a 50/50 split - i.e. 50% to the winner, 50% to the conference coffers. That's standard for the majority of leagues. There are a few smaller conferences that do the fully even distribution because they're a true one bid where any one of them could qualify. So by this fact..the A10 is trying to be different than a one bid league - yet doing nothing in their conference membership to help that reality.

My point being is that Gonzaga has a different agreement where they keep a majority of the credits and share less. It's a huge advantage for them over joining a bigger conference where they'd have to give a 50/50 split.

The WAC is also protected by the fact that Gonzaga would have to walk away from all of that extra money if they were to leave - so it's sort of like a buyout clause that adds protection to their staying in the conference.

Dayton or VCU have to give 50% of their NCAA credits to schools that are actively hurting their NCAA chances and giving them worse seeds year in and year out like the bottom of our conference. Fordham? Does nothing but hurts you, here's 50% of our winnings. Duqeusne, never brought in a cent to the conference? Cool. Here's 50%. George Mason? Same thing? 50%. On and on and on.

If you want to be a different conference, you have to act differently.

We're just stuck in the middle of irrelevance.

I am trying to find references on the internet on the A-10 NCAA unit distribution formula but am not coming up with a lot of results. The link below is from an old thread from the A-10 forum on this topic. It does not agree with what you write. Can you provide a source for your contention?


https://www.basketballforum.com/threads ... ts.482378/

I remember it as Blue Man does, that the team that earns gets 50% and the conference gets 50%. Pretty sure that came from Bill Koch in stories from around that time

[hrstrat57]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

[ramster]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

[RhowdyRam02]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

What do you think our advertising budget is? How much of that budget would you want to spend on an ad just to combat PC having a billboard on 95?

A quick search shows that Lamar charges $18,000 to $120,000 per year for a billboard in the Providence/New Bedford/Fall River market. My guess is a billboard on 95 close to where the Providence one is goes for a lot closer to the $120,000 number. I haven't seen any indication from our athletic department that we have the kind of budget to support that kind of ad spend, and if we did there's a lot better ways to spend $120,000 a year than having our logo on the side of a road everyone hates. Shit, you could use that money to paper local schools with free tickets for kids like the PawSox used to when Mondor was trying to build up the fanbase and get a much larger return on the investment.

The little brother complex is so real unfortunately. None of us would be calling for a billboard on 95 or an ad in TF Green, but because PC has them we have to have them to, whether it's a good use of money or not. We don't have the money for those kinds of vanity ads, we need to be smarter and more strategic and we need to actually get a return on investment instead of just lighting money on fire

[RhowdyRam02]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

Did she say why she was looking forward to Loyola Chicago most?

[RhowdyRam02]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

What do you think our advertising budget is? How much of that budget would you want to spend on an ad just to combat PC having a billboard on 95?

A quick search shows that Lamar charges $18,000 to $120,000 per year for a billboard in the Providence/New Bedford/Fall River market. My guess is a billboard on 95 close to where the Providence one is goes for a lot closer to the $120,000 number. I haven't seen any indication from our athletic department that we have the kind of budget to support that kind of ad spend, and if we did there's a lot better ways to spend $120,000 a year than having our logo on the side of a road everyone hates. Shit, you could use that money to paper local schools with free tickets for kids like the PawSox used to when Mondor was trying to build up the fanbase and get a much larger return on the investment.

The little brother complex is so real unfortunately. None of us would be calling for a billboard on 95 or an ad in TF Green, but because PC has them we have to have them to, whether it's a good use of money or not. We don't have the money for those kinds of vanity ads, we need to be smarter and more strategic and we need to actually get a return on investment instead of just lighting money on fire

Also to the little brother complex and ads on 95 and TF Green airport, can you name 5 other billboards on 95 besides the one for PC and the lottery one that tells you how much the Powerball and Mega Millions drawings are? Can you name 5 other ads in the TF Green airport? My guess for both if you're being honest is no. You notice the PC ad because you're predisposed to noticing it. If you didn't hate PC it would blend into the background and be just another waste of advertising revenue that you didn't notice. But because they're wasting their money in a certain way we want to do the same?

[theblueram]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

Did she say why she was looking forward to Loyola Chicago most?

Lou Malnati's?

[RhowdyRam02]

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

Did she say why she was looking forward to Loyola Chicago most?

Lou Malnati's?

I'm curious if there was something special about Loyola and/or Chicago or if this was an "I'm most looking forward to our next game" type of answer

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

"-Arena size is irrelevant. You build an arena to fit the needs and the demand. (what's the season ticket base, where do ticket holders live, what's the potential ticket base if the school consistently wins, should it be a multi-purpose facility, is there even land to build a larger arena, etc.)"

Season ticket base, where do ticket holders live, and what's the potential ticket base if the school consistently wins all seem like very important factors in deciding what conference a school belongs in. If a school doesn't have a big enough fanbase buying tickets they're not going to have the money to compete long-term in this conference. There's a reason why La Salle, Fordham, and Duquesne are consistently near the bottom, why Dayton and VCU are consistently near the top, and programs like St. Louis, Rhode Island, and Richmond are mid-pack programs that bounce all around the standings.

Arena size says a lot about a program. Part of the design process is studying what your fan base is and what it could be under optimal conditions. That Loyola has about 4500 seats for a home gym, with the same student enrollment as URI, in the third most populous city in the country, with no plans to expand, and an average attendance below UMass says everything about that program, and none of it is good

So we have a difference of opinion. I think how nice an arena is more important than the size of the arena. To me, that's more of a reflection of the university's commitment to its basketball program. Kudos to Loyola for reimagining and redesigning their basketball arena into a top-flight basketball arena. Loyola's campus is very difficult to get to for any alumni living in the suburbs, especially on weeknights.

In the same city, UIC plays in the former UIC Pavilion. UIC has 22K undergrads and their arena holds 9,500. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 people would tell you that Loyola's Gentile Center is a far better basketball arena.

Build an arena too big and you have the Mullins Center. Sure, it was filled in the Camby hey-days. But otherwise, it's a ghost town. St. John's is in NYC, enrollment 16,000 undergrads and has Carnesecca Arena with a capacity of 5,600. What does that say about St. John's program?

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

So I'll translate your answer for you since "access to and working relationship with MSG" is what the circus and the WWE also have: They rent out MSG, it doesn't belong to St. John's. MSG gives top billing to the Knicks and Rangers. Carnesecca Arena (i.e. the one that St. John's owns/runs/manages/controls, have on their campus) has 5,600 capacity. According to your Loyola logic, the size of St. John's own arena, in a market the size of NYC and an enrollment the size of St. John's...that speaks poorly of St. John's.

Know your customers. (Loyola knows its customers.)

[Blue Man]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

OK interesting take...and if Chicago is such a deal - keep it. Do we really need 2 schools in Philly and 2 schools in DC then if we want to be able to sell travel?

Because I'd be fine keeping Loyola if we dropped La Salle, George Mason, Fordham and Duquesne.

We probably had an opportunity not to "kick out" a program, but amend the new TV contract that didn't include those schools and technically just start a new conference without them.

But of course, we didn't because Battleaxe Bernie doesn't think that way and even though men's basketball is the only revenue driver for the conference and it's members...let's consider the whole picture because it's a nice thing to do and this is how we've always done it. The march towards one bid irrelevancy continues.

We had a brief period in 2013 with Butler and VCU in the mix with Xavier and Temple as standard bearers. We squandered that. We had a dead cat bounce in 2014 with 6 bids where the players recruited to play in the best high major conference in the country were still there. Those players graduated and we went to 3 bids. She should've been subsequently fired then.

She didn't. We went to 2 bids as coaches fell off and went to greener pastures, and she should've been fired then. Then last year's 1 bid. This year is shaping up to be more of the same.

How she stayed employed after this March and was allowed to negotiate a contract to shape the next 5 years of this conference after how irrelevant we've become over the last 16 is beyond me. Not sure if it's not the climate to fire a female executive or what, but you cannot tell me we are in a better place for her leadership.

I will never stop thinking that adding Loyola was the wrong thing to do - but for sure they're a better member than Fordham, Duquesne, George Mason, GW, or La Salle.

This conference has too many mouths to feed that don't actively contribute to what's on the table. We added more leaches when we should've added more providers, or left and gone to a smaller table.

If you're not a P4 conference that has 16+ teams of contributors who are going to send 70% of their conference to the NCAA, then you need to be like the Big East and get 10 quality programs to limit your exposure to bad games on the schedule.

So I'll back off the Loyola hate if we drum up hate to get the conference down to 10 less shitty programs.

[bigappleram]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

What do you think our advertising budget is? How much of that budget would you want to spend on an ad just to combat PC having a billboard on 95?

A quick search shows that Lamar charges $18,000 to $120,000 per year for a billboard in the Providence/New Bedford/Fall River market. My guess is a billboard on 95 close to where the Providence one is goes for a lot closer to the $120,000 number. I haven't seen any indication from our athletic department that we have the kind of budget to support that kind of ad spend, and if we did there's a lot better ways to spend $120,000 a year than having our logo on the side of a road everyone hates. Shit, you could use that money to paper local schools with free tickets for kids like the PawSox used to when Mondor was trying to build up the fanbase and get a much larger return on the investment.

The little brother complex is so real unfortunately. None of us would be calling for a billboard on 95 or an ad in TF Green, but because PC has them we have to have them to, whether it's a good use of money or not. We don't have the money for those kinds of vanity ads, we need to be smarter and more strategic and we need to actually get a return on investment instead of just lighting money on fire

You don’t build a brand solely by “papering” the place with ticket giveaways or doing low cost paid social ads. Those things have a role as do higher reach vehicles like TV, OOH, etc. It’s not an either or it’s a both.

And fwiw in the late 90s we were doing all of those things when Harrick was our coach and we were playing in a tiny gym. So if we had the budget then we certainly have the budget now.

It’s a battle for hearts and minds of the casual fan and creating more pride from a large alumni base. You need a good product on the court but you also need all the other things in place. And 1 of the other things is a well orchestrated marketing plan.

[theblueram]

So we have a difference of opinion. I think how nice an arena is more important than the size of the arena. To me, that's more of a reflection of the university's commitment to its basketball program. Kudos to Loyola for reimagining and redesigning their basketball arena into a top-flight basketball arena. Loyola's campus is very difficult to get to for any alumni living in the suburbs, especially on weeknights.

In the same city, UIC plays in the former UIC Pavilion. UIC has 22K undergrads and their arena holds 9,500. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 people would tell you that Loyola's Gentile Center is a far better basketball arena.

Build an arena too big and you have the Mullins Center. Sure, it was filled in the Camby hey-days. But otherwise, it's a ghost town. St. John's is in NYC, enrollment 16,000 undergrads and has Carnesecca Arena with a capacity of 5,600. What does that say about St. John's program?

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

So I'll translate your answer for you since "access to and working relationship with MSG" is what the circus and the WWE also have: They rent out MSG, it doesn't belong to St. John's. MSG gives top billing to the Knicks and Rangers. Carnesecca Arena (i.e. the one that St. John's owns/runs/manages/controls, have on their campus) has 5,600 capacity. According to your Loyola logic, the size of St. John's own arena, in a market the size of NYC and an enrollment the size of St. John's...that speaks poorly of St. John's.

Know your customers. (Loyola knows its customers.)

What does it say about pc who doesn't even have their own arena???

[Blue Man]

So we have a difference of opinion. I think how nice an arena is more important than the size of the arena. To me, that's more of a reflection of the university's commitment to its basketball program. Kudos to Loyola for reimagining and redesigning their basketball arena into a top-flight basketball arena. Loyola's campus is very difficult to get to for any alumni living in the suburbs, especially on weeknights.

In the same city, UIC plays in the former UIC Pavilion. UIC has 22K undergrads and their arena holds 9,500. I can guarantee you that 10 out of 10 people would tell you that Loyola's Gentile Center is a far better basketball arena.

Build an arena too big and you have the Mullins Center. Sure, it was filled in the Camby hey-days. But otherwise, it's a ghost town. St. John's is in NYC, enrollment 16,000 undergrads and has Carnesecca Arena with a capacity of 5,600. What does that say about St. John's program?

It says they have access to, and a working relationship with, Madison Square Garden, so they can tailor their arena to various conditions

So I'll translate your answer for you since "access to and working relationship with MSG" is what the circus and the WWE also have: They rent out MSG, it doesn't belong to St. John's. MSG gives top billing to the Knicks and Rangers. Carnesecca Arena (i.e. the one that St. John's owns/runs/manages/controls, have on their campus) has 5,600 capacity. According to your Loyola logic, the size of St. John's own arena, in a market the size of NYC and an enrollment the size of St. John's...that speaks poorly of St. John's.

Know your customers. (Loyola knows its customers.)

What customers? They can't get 3000 people in the building despite being in their "golden era" and the highest level conference they've ever been a part of.

But we're losing this argument in the weeds again. You're not adding an arena to the conference, you're adding a basketball program.

Does UConn get a demerit because they play some games in the XL center? PC doesn't own their arena either.

Are we really saying that we'd rather have Loyola in the A10 over St Johns?

Is Loyola any semblance of a better program than St Johns?

I won't even present numbers because they're so lop-sided and pointless. Loyola is a bad add to an overcrowded conference that has too many useless 2nd tier basketball programs as it is.

If you want to cut 5 shitty programs in the A10 and keep Loyola? I don't hate that idea either. But it will not go well for the A10 having 15-16 mouths to feed when on any given year there's at best 3 realistic programs who can make the dance, and 1-2 actually will.

[steviep123]

Kind of..um..aggressive.

As someone not in advertising who travels a lot for work, yeah I see that Friartown sign at the airport a lot. It gives off the vibe that they are all that people care about in the state.

I never check a bag, I'm usually just getting out of there to my car as fast as possible - but I still notice the signage. How can you not?

So I imagine that the people waiting at the bag check have that image burned into their heads, and the idea they get is that this state only cares about PC basketball.

If we want to change that perception - obviously we need to be a better basketball team - but those kind of marketing campaigns matter.

Even when we were the better team for a brief period in time, we never grabbed that mindshare or made those kind of advertising plays.

I think it matters more than you're giving it credit for. Maybe not as much as BAR may say...but definitely more than what you're saying.

Last time I flew into TF Green was March 2018, coincidentally on the same day URI was playing Davidson in the A10 championship. In infuriated me to no end to see that Friartown sign in baggage claim. There should be a Rhody Men's bball sign as they are the state flagship university.

How many PC tickets did you buy because you saw that ad?

And why would I buy PC tickets?

[ramster]

Interesting thread

My tiny .02?

Giving exclusive billboard rights on I95 and TFGreen to Friartown is a travesty.

It’s still a bit early to make a final “fail” call on Loyola Chicago.

I can say that on the Coaches Show for WBB that Sophie Phillips was on the was asked which game are you most looking forward to and she responded Loyola of Chicago a bit to my surprise. These players have not necessarily traveled a lot being so young and I can see why they might be excited about seeing a city like Chicago.

You can argue whether A10 should or shouldn't go to 15 and even 16 teams, but if you are going to add one then I also think Loyola could be ok. I watched the game last night after ours and their team looks much better than last year's .

I'm not sure PC got exclusive rights. Back when I mentioned PC's Board in Baggage claim years ago Bryant also had advertising in the Gate 18 area - I don't think Bryant is in there now.

Maybe URI could get a good deal since our Athletic teams use the Airport frequently plus I'm sure we do plenty of business flights from there. Just seems like a nice idea to have some level of promotion at the State Airport.

Did she say why she was looking forward to Loyola Chicago most?

I think it had to do with the city itself. But no, not specific details.
URI plays at Loyola tonight.