Understanding the NIL

[Rhody15]

https://www.golocalprov.com/sports/PC-B ... to-Players

LOL to this line..."PC basketball players are making money because they are on the basketball team."

The language in 99% of GoLocalProv articles is so elementary it's incredible the site is still up and running.


Also this couldn't be further form the truth.

"There is no doubt PC follows the rules, as they have consistently run an ethical and forthright athletic program. "

[SGreenwell]

I always hate to defend our rivals, but what a steaming pile of a piece. "If you see fancy and expensive cars driving around the Providence College (PC) campus this year, there is a good chance they belong to men’s basketball team players." Or, you know, the many, many other rich students that attend any college, but especially a private one with annual tuition of roughly $57,000. The whole article reads as a blend between "old man yelling at clouds" and "baiting people to get upset about (mostly) Black athletes."

[RF1]

Philadelphia Inquirer Sports reporter Mike Jenson is doing a series on NIL and how it affects the Philly schools. He writes that the Villanova pool distributes some $3M per year to its players:

[RF1]

Per a post on the UMass Fan Forum by a person involved with their collective, they will pay out $150k:

[bigappleram]

150k across 4 players. Again NIL won't be a separator within our league.
We will have on par with what other A10 programs have. And the $$ are far off from what is reported.
50-80K per for top tier A10 talent and then down from there has been the norm that is reported.

[KevanBoyles]

Do we have any NIL?

[RF1]

150k across 4 players. Again NIL won't be a separator within our league.
We will have on par with what other A10 programs have. And the $$ are far off from what is reported.
50-80K per for top tier A10 talent and then down from there has been the norm that is reported.

It might be a level field WITHIN the A-10. It however appears to be a far different situation in how the A-10 compares to higher rated conferences. Villanova at some $3M and PC at $1M versus UMass at $150k is a big disparity. It makes recruiting the best players out of high school and preps even more difficult than it had already been for A-10 level programs. With the transfer portal changes, the NIL also makes keeping a player that has excelled in the A-10 all that much harder. All of this in turn creates an even wider gap between the A-10 and other leagues which results in less talented players and fewer NCAA bids.

[RhowdyRam02]

Per a post on the UMass Fan Forum by a person involved with their collective, they will pay out $150k:

UMass Collective Post.png

Their collectives are beating the shit out of ours at every level, which makes no sense because we have heavy hitters leading the charge. Maybe they need some kind of day to day marketing/PR person to get things out there to the rank and file fans and drum up interest

[RhowdyRam02]

Do we have any NIL?

We have a collective, the Rhode to Excellence, but it's been pretty much all crickets on what they're doing outside of the occasional post from a player with their hashtag.

https://rhodyexcellence.com/

When you scroll halfway down you can see the five board members in charge of running things

[Ramulous]

I went to the Rhody at Villanova football game. Tried to get a tailgating spot on campus. Each spot required a fee of @$350 to reserve it. They were all sold out by the time I inquired. No tailgating was allowed anywhere else on campus. Their fans paid it out.

I wonder how many of their hoops boosters contribute to their $3M pool of hoops NIL. I wonder what the highest amounts are and from which donors. Information the school probably doesn’t let out.

I wonder the same about our collective.

[RIFan]

UNH charged $85 for a tailgate vehicle spot, plus game tix. BTW, last year the fee was $20 for a spot. Spots sold out in minutes.

[Obadiah]

With the URI Day of Giving coming up on Oct. 5, this will be a chance for URI BB fans to ante up to build the NIL rather than just mouthing off.

[RhowdyRam02]

I don't really think that's how it works. I think the NIL is separate, so nothing from Day of Giving would actually go to the NIL

[Obadiah]

I don't really think that's how it works. I think the NIL is separate, so nothing from Day of Giving would actually go to the NIL

No matter the format, nothing stops you from joining or making a one time gift to the URI NIL, the Road to Excellence, through the link you posted earlier. You can do this on Oct. 5 or any day for that matter.

[RhowdyRam02]

On that we agree, and everything helps!

[RIFan]

So, do we shift our gift or split it with the collective? Not sure the university would be happy with either of those options.

[LoveThoseRams]

With the URI Day of Giving coming up on Oct. 5, this will be a chance for URI BB fans to ante up to build the NIL rather than just mouthing off.

Two separate "buckets" so to speak.

You can donate to the NIL Rhode to Excellence on their website. However it is not tax deductible because it is a For-Profit collective.

The Day of Giving, goes to the University directly. Is tax deductible.

[Obadiah]

Ask any estate planning lawyer and he will tell you that if you are truly a philanthropic person, you give because you believe in the cause, you believe in its goals, you simply believe and that is the chief motivator of your philanthropy. You do not give because it's tax deductible.

[Jersey77]

"University of Dayton uses NIL to encourage students to go to class"
https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/n ... -students-

[Jdrums#3]

"University of Dayton uses NIL to encourage students to go to class"
https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/n ... -students-

Good stuff! Thanks for posting the story, Jersey.

[Blue Man]

Philadelphia Inquirer Sports reporter Mike Jenson is doing a series on NIL and how it affects the Philly schools. He writes that the Villanova pool distributes some $3M per year to its players:

0.0% chance that is an accurate number.

[rjsuperfly66]

Why is that number unrealistic?
If you have 10,000 season ticket holders, and all season ticket holders give $25 a month, there is $250k a month, $3 million a year.
Obviously you are going to have some who give $0, and some who give $10k, but you need everyone playing a part.
If you asked most URI fans on this board if they have donated to NIL, it'll probably range from answers of no to answers of small one-time donations.
You need every one of you contributing monthly what you can.
I'm not sure how many season ticket holders you have, but 4,000 X $10 a month is $480k annually.
That puts you in a pretty healthy spot with your peers and can make you more competitive for higher-end talent.

[4Diffs]

Interesting discussion here. I do wonder if the school has a preference between giving to the collective or to the day of giving. I will assume it is the latter since I received an email today from URI athletics reminding me of the day of giving. Anybody know? If you asked Thorr what would he say? I guess the collective has nothing to do with the school which is why they are pushing the day of giving? I plan on making my usual donation on the day of giving but maybe it should go to the NIL? Really not sure which one would benefit the basketball team the most. Any NIL donation certainly would not count towards any donor level for the Rams Fund benefits if that matters to anybody looking to get into the hospitality room at the Ryan Center or a football tailgating pass.

As far as tax deductibility, due to the change in limiting the tax deduction to 10k and the sharp increase in the standard deduction much fewer people itemize and therefore would not impact most people's decision. But for those that do itemize, I think the tax deduction does matter for most people. Estate attorneys are dealing with wealthy people (except in RI and MA which have some of the lowest thresholds in the country) and that is a whole different ball game. For most people, I think saving 24% of the donation, or 35% or 37% does matter. Would you rather give 5k that costs you net of tax $3,800 or $5,000. To say that should not matter is not the real world as the vast majority would prefer the former. There is a reason why charities hate these new tax laws and are hoping they go back to the old ones in 2026.

[Blue Man]

Why is that number unrealistic?
If you have 10,000 season ticket holders, and all season ticket holders give $25 a month, there is $250k a month, $3 million a year.
Obviously you are going to have some who give $0, and some who give $10k, but you need everyone playing a part.
If you asked most URI fans on this board if they have donated to NIL, it'll probably range from answers of no to answers of small one-time donations.
You need every one of you contributing monthly what you can.
I'm not sure how many season ticket holders you have, but 4,000 X $10 a month is $480k annually.
That puts you in a pretty healthy spot with your peers and can make you more competitive for higher-end talent.

Because it's all a fugazi. It's a woosie it's a wutty.

They all lie. The players lie because flex culture and social media. The players reps/managers lie because they try to drive up the market. The collective people lie because they're trying to act like more people are giving to it than there actually are, so that more people will pick up donating.

Collectives are, for the most part, a collection of maybe a couple dozen very wealthy boosters who are floating the vast majority of these player payments.

I cannot imagine that regular donors are going to reach back into their pockets for a non-tax deductible 2nd donation that gets them no access or tickets.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I find that number highly unlikely.

[RIFan]

Granted it’s only my circle, but I the people I talk to who are fans of many schools, not just URI. Think the collectives and NIL in general is a mess and have not donated and have no intention of doing so. Just like Blue Man, most are under the impression they are just a cover for the big donors to mess around in the program in a new way. Or the same way but now legally.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Granted it’s only my circle, but I the people I talk to who are fans of many schools, not just URI. Think the collectives and NIL in general is a mess and have not donated and have no intention of doing so. Just like Blue Man, most are under the impression they are just a cover for the big donors to mess around in the program in a new way. Or the same way but now legally.

Totally, each team's school's donor pack's NIL fund is like the Coca Cola recipe....no one is ever going to really know what's in it. A toy for the wealthy, I don't think the commoner's contributions - regardless of specific fund-raising efforts for it - will ever really move the needle.

[Blue Man]

All of that said, I give to both, but yeah.

I’ve got a pretty good grip on what URI is doing/other A10 teams are doing, and it’s not too hard to apply common sense to the others.

[rjsuperfly66]

Why is that number unrealistic?
If you have 10,000 season ticket holders, and all season ticket holders give $25 a month, there is $250k a month, $3 million a year.
Obviously you are going to have some who give $0, and some who give $10k, but you need everyone playing a part.
If you asked most URI fans on this board if they have donated to NIL, it'll probably range from answers of no to answers of small one-time donations.
You need every one of you contributing monthly what you can.
I'm not sure how many season ticket holders you have, but 4,000 X $10 a month is $480k annually.
That puts you in a pretty healthy spot with your peers and can make you more competitive for higher-end talent.

Because it's all a fugazi. It's a woosie it's a wutty.

They all lie. The players lie because flex culture and social media. The players reps/managers lie because they try to drive up the market. The collective people lie because they're trying to act like more people are giving to it than there actually are, so that more people will pick up donating.

Collectives are, for the most part, a collection of maybe a couple dozen very wealthy boosters who are floating the vast majority of these player payments.

I cannot imagine that regular donors are going to reach back into their pockets for a non-tax deductible 2nd donation that gets them no access or tickets.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I find that number highly unlikely.

The PC collective and the athletic department have worked hand in hand on access. The collective hosted multiple events over the summer that offered exclusive access to players/practice for high-end collective donors. That was in addition to the school who offered invites to practice to high-end donors right before the trip to Spain.

But I think the biggest thing is giving the chance for the program to be competitive. NIL is about something bigger than access. It's about giving the program the chance to be competitive.

Now I know it's easy to call BS on some of the numbers, but I know at least for Nova, they may very well be true. PC was very involved with Lance Ware, he had the KY connection with Hopkins and many thought he was a lock. Then Nova got involved and it was rumored a sizeable 6-figure payment was offered his way and it swung the recruitment. Nothing changed on PCs end, but he committed to Nova.

I personally know people who give sizeable donations to both entities. The school needs to promote donations to the athletic department, but a responsible AD would also be pumping up subsequent NIL funding.

[RIFan]

Since everything is relative, what is a a sizable donation? You mention you know people who give sizable donations…is that $5,000, $25,0000, $100,000? What equals sizable?

[rjsuperfly66]

Since everything is relative, what is a a sizable donation? You mention you know people who give sizable donations…is that $5,000, $25,0000, $100,000? What equals sizable?

I know a few who have given 10k, either a direct personal donation or through a business partnership. The school has been very proactive in this arena to help promote relationship with NIL, and the NIL has tried to evolve to create different ways for people to invest, whether one-time donation, reoccurring monthly donations, donations per win, donations per 3PM, jerseys, autographs, events, they are trying everything within the legal power to to get all on board. And it's not all extravagant, if you go to the pledge per win page, it defaults to $1 per win. NIL has taken the attitude that donations of all sizes matter, rather than just focusing on larger-scale pledges. Of course they want those, but 35 people who pledge $25 a month is worth more than a one-time donation of $10k.

[RIFan]

Thx, I agree $10k is sizable and would consider someone who donates that amount a major donor. I guess I need to get over it, but the whole thing seems so sleazy to me. Why the heck are the fans paying the athletes basically directly? We donate to the school, pay for tix, buy swag and now have to pay the players!? I have said this before, whoever is making the money should pay them, not the fans.

[Jersey77]

Thx, I agree $10k is sizable and would consider someone who donates that amount a major donor. I guess I need to get over it, but the whole thing seems so sleazy to me. Why the heck are the fans paying the athletes basically directly? We donate to the school, pay for tix, buy swag and now have to pay the players!? I have said this before, whoever is making the money should pay them, not the fans.

You make a lot of sense RIF, I agree.
After all, the whole intent of NIL is for the players to be compensated by those benefitting from the use of their name, image, and likeness.
This should not involve the average fan and they shouldn't feel a financial obligation.

Unfortunately, this has gotten totally out of hand and became a pay-to-play scenario.
The NCAA dropped the ball on being able to regulate this.

There will be a wider gap between the haves and the have nots.

[bigappleram]

Over the long term my guess is the fake NIL ie The Collectives goes away. There is profit sharing and legit name, likeness, image usages that are generating the revenue for athletes. That makes too much sense so then again maybe it won’t ever happen.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Over the long term my guess is the fake NIL ie The Collectives goes away. There is profit sharing and legit name, likeness, image usages that are generating the revenue for athletes. That makes too much sense so then again maybe it won’t ever happen.

I agree... NIL is a charade farce. I have a NIL arrangement where I work, only they call it a salary. No one 'really' has any idea what's in them (and if they don't have to say...why would they?). Collecting Nil-dough from rich people to watch practice...to funnel money to 'some' (but likely not everyone that participated) isn't really use of name image likeness, is it?

[RhowdyRam02]

This website is a directory for URI athletes to promote NIL opportunities. It's being advertised on GoRhody, so it's legit

https://opendorse.com/rhodeisland-rams

[rjsuperfly66]

Over the long term my guess is the fake NIL ie The Collectives goes away. There is profit sharing and legit name, likeness, image usages that are generating the revenue for athletes. That makes too much sense so then again maybe it won’t ever happen.

I agree... NIL is a charade farce. I have a NIL arrangement where I work, only they call it a salary. No one 'really' has any idea what's in them (and if they don't have to say...why would they?). Collecting Nil-dough from rich people to watch practice...to funnel money to 'some' (but likely not everyone that participated) isn't really use of name image likeness, is it?

It may all be true but it's the world we live in. The righteous who believe in "true amateurism in collegiate sports" will be the ones left behind. You either get on board and try to assist in your school keeping up or you don't. But at the end of the day it's happening whether you or I like it. So I'll make my monthly contribution and hope it's put to good use.

[Jersey77]

Utah Football NIL Deal Gives Every Scholarship Player a Car
The Utah Utes and a NIL group called The Crimson Collective are presenting all 85 scholarship players a brand new Dodge Ram truck.
https://www.si.com/college/utah/footbal ... play-a-car

[jcru]

Well... that should help recruiting.

[bigappleram]

Over the long term my guess is the fake NIL ie The Collectives goes away. There is profit sharing and legit name, likeness, image usages that are generating the revenue for athletes. That makes too much sense so then again maybe it won’t ever happen.

I agree... NIL is a charade farce. I have a NIL arrangement where I work, only they call it a salary. No one 'really' has any idea what's in them (and if they don't have to say...why would they?). Collecting Nil-dough from rich people to watch practice...to funnel money to 'some' (but likely not everyone that participated) isn't really use of name image likeness, is it?

It may all be true but it's the world we live in. The righteous who believe in "true amateurism in collegiate sports" will be the ones left behind. You either get on board and try to assist in your school keeping up or you don't. But at the end of the day it's happening whether you or I like it. So I'll make my monthly contribution and hope it's put to good use.

Has nothing to do with believing in true amateurism. Everyone or basically everyone agrees the athletes in revenue generating sports should be compensated.

[NYGFan_Section208]

I agree... NIL is a charade farce. I have a NIL arrangement where I work, only they call it a salary. No one 'really' has any idea what's in them (and if they don't have to say...why would they?). Collecting Nil-dough from rich people to watch practice...to funnel money to 'some' (but likely not everyone that participated) isn't really use of name image likeness, is it?

It may all be true but it's the world we live in. The righteous who believe in "true amateurism in collegiate sports" will be the ones left behind. You either get on board and try to assist in your school keeping up or you don't. But at the end of the day it's happening whether you or I like it. So I'll make my monthly contribution and hope it's put to good use.

Has nothing to do with believing in true amateurism. Everyone or basically everyone agrees the athletes in revenue generating sports should be compensated.

Agreed. This whole sitch now is just silly. 85 players are gonna get cars... does it have ANYTHING AT ALL to do with "name" "image" or "likeness"? No...it doesn't. Probably at least 60 of those players aren't even known by, nor will their Name, Image, or Likeness ever be known by anyone beyond their immediate families*. I'm gonna guess that, the dude supplying the trucks...can't name a dozen of the 80 players. That doesn't mean they don't deserve the cars (or revenue sharing) but, good grief, call it what it is - pay for play - and get some transparency around it... Salary, errrrr, I mean "NIL" caps are a-comin'...you read it here first.

*Utah is a top 20 team - with names, images, and likenesses funded in the millions (at least $5M worth of cars alone)...yet, even a fan of the game would have to look to make sure they were ranked, and still probably couldn't name a single player...

I don't begrudge the kids the dough, but, c'mon...let's call it what it is and be transparent about it.

[rjsuperfly66]

I agree... NIL is a charade farce. I have a NIL arrangement where I work, only they call it a salary. No one 'really' has any idea what's in them (and if they don't have to say...why would they?). Collecting Nil-dough from rich people to watch practice...to funnel money to 'some' (but likely not everyone that participated) isn't really use of name image likeness, is it?

It may all be true but it's the world we live in. The righteous who believe in "true amateurism in collegiate sports" will be the ones left behind. You either get on board and try to assist in your school keeping up or you don't. But at the end of the day it's happening whether you or I like it. So I'll make my monthly contribution and hope it's put to good use.

Has nothing to do with believing in true amateurism. Everyone or basically everyone agrees the athletes in revenue generating sports should be compensated.

The issue is there is no easy way to do this, right? Like, how do you fairly determine value? Is it individual program revenue? Is it conference revenue? Is it NCAA revenue? Does everyone get an even cut? Or is it by some rating system? KenPom player efficiency? Experts?

I'm 100% on board that NIL as currently constituted is pay-for-play and not as intended. But it's our world. Should I kick and scream it's stupid and not donate to a collective? Or should I donate because everyone is doing it and I'd rather keep up than be left behind?

What is clear at this point is our government is not going to support any NIL initiatives that restrict earnings, which is the pay-for-play argument, and I believe you have individual states that have created laws building protections for universities in those states, so what are the options?

I don't disagree with the greater point, I just find there are too many people out there who remind me of the meme of the old man shaking his fist at the sky... "I don't agree with this so I'm not going to participate." Even if we are all right to feel that way about NIL, it's only hurting the program. NIL needs everyone on board.

[Ramulous]

I was going to increase my giving level on the day of giving. Then I thought about it That giving makes up for shortfalls in Administration support. The school can step up and provide those extras under current rules. They choose not to and rely on donors.

The school cannot provide NIL pay for play money or payments for advertising to the players. It must come from outside sources. So I will not increase my donation and instead boost my contribution to NIL

I think it is the only way to allocate my available funds in the best way.

[RIFan]

So this is us letting the few bad Apples spoil the bunch. Because deep pocketed ego maniacs want to feel important and fund collectives, everyone else needs to do it, even if the other 90% of the people think it’s not the correct way to go about it. So be right and get left behind or hold your nose and get in the pig pen…great options. If you care about the team, you are literally being basically forced to do it.

But once again, where is all the money that the players point to that is being made on their backs that they are are not getting a piece of? Shouldn’t the money come from that bucket and not asking the fans to pay more? Isn’t this all about TV money? Why must the fans put the bandage on a broken system?

How many basketball teams actually make money?

Ok, rant over…for now. It’s just one of those things where I just tell my kids…it’s just way way it is. You can fight it or use it to your advantage.

[NYGFan_Section208]

So this is us letting the few bad Apples spoil the bunch. Because deep pocketed ego maniacs want to feel important and fund collectives, everyone else needs to do it, even if the other 90% of the people think it’s not the correct way to go about it. So be right and get left behind or hold your nose and get in the pig pen…great options. If you care about the team, you are literally being basically forced to do it.

But once again, where is all the money that the players point to that is being made on their backs that they are are not getting a piece of? Shouldn’t the money come from that bucket and not asking the fans to pay more? Isn’t this all about TV money? Why must the fans put the bandage on a broken system?

How many basketball teams actually make money?

Ok, rant over…for now. It’s just one of those things where I just tell my kids…it’s just way way it is. You can fight it or use it to your advantage.

Lol..."asking the fans to pay more"....
Average fans of top programs are not being asked to pay for it "everywhere" but in places where it's "needed."

ETA...I agree that it should come from the TV bucket....but, that would mean someone either voluntarily loosening their grip on the current bucket, or else getting their grip CBA'd off off of it.

[Ramulous]

I’m sorry if I hit a nerve. I can’t give tons of money but what I got I’ll give to U

[rjsuperfly66]

I'm guessing part of the issue is title IX.
If you are asking the schools to pay athletes with a percentage of TV revenue, most collegiate athletes are worthless.
Further, the revenue producing sports help fund many other programs at a college/university. Using that to help pay athletes harms the whole entity.
Lastly, I think it places an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots. Let's say you could use 10% of your basketball related TV revenue for players... so the A10 can pay all its players $40k combined while the Big Ten schools could pay $2 million? Who is committing to URI for $3k when you can go be the 13th man in the Big 10 for like $153k?
At least now at URI, in theory a big donor/business could line up and "back up the brinks truck" for a player(s) if they really wanted too.

[theblueram]

I’m sorry if I hit a nerve. I can’t give tons of money but what I got I’ll give to U

It's a weird time Ramulous. On the one hand, donating to Athletics allows our team to take charters and have good amenities. But if we don't provide enough NIL, then we are just flying a bunch of lower level players first class to a losing season. Strange times indeed.

[RIFan]

You are right RJ. I actually did say when all this started that there is an opportunity here for some of the big donors to step in and improve the trajectory of our program by paying big bucks to get top players. But it appears we are just happy to pay what our peers in the A10 pay. Thus waiting for lightning to strike and have 1 good year before the parts are picked off by the highest bidder and we start from scratch again.

[Ramulous]

The University can fund charters and amenities. They cannot fund NIL. I would rather give to NIL. Let the school fund sports not the donors. It is a new age.

[theblueram]

The University can fund charters and amenities. They cannot fund NIL. I would rather give to NIL. Let the school fund sports not the donors. It is a new age.

Yes it is. Noted.