Conference Realignment

[Jdrums#3]

Will URI continue to invest in URI basketball at this level in a 1 bid A10? Will most of the teams except the few with aspirations beyond the A10, reduce their commitments? I would think many would say why continue to invest at this level with a 1 in 100 chance of making the NCAA after this commissioner is done adding teams.

That is one of my concerns, RIFan. Happy you brought it up now before practice and the games start so that I can chew on possible scenarios regardless of how unrealistic, realistic or concerning the scenario’s may be.

I am of the same mind as some others here in that for a basketball program like ours, a bigger conference of 11+ teams is not beneficial in the current environment of realignment, NIL, the portal and football domination.

Best case for me is that we land in a basketball-centric conference with committed programs striving for NCAAT at-large bids.

I still think that is possible.

[4Diffs]

Guess what, college basketball and college athletics have changed, and not for the better for anybody not in the power 5, 4 whatever it is now. To blame the commissioner for the A10 sinking in this environment is not fair. Convenient scape goat for sure. You have to judge her based on what is going on in college athletics. It is frankly awful how colleges have just whored themselves out to chase the almighty dollar. It is sad and I am not sure there is a place at the table anymore for schools like URI. There is no way the A10 can be a 15 team league and be a one bid league. The league will clearly splinter if that is the case. It is very likely that will happen. I love all sports but college basketball has always been my favorite. Sadly I do not believe that will be the case going forward. I was trying to convince myself that this was just a moment in time that will pass and the A10 will go back to being a multi bid league. But then the Pac 12 just got demolished, who thought you would see Stanford in the ACC? How does that make any sense? They actually got penalized for being loyal to the league, I am sure they could have had their pick of conferences if they were looking to jump ship. But they were not expecting the PAC12 to get blown up. It sucks but all this handwringing about the commissioner being the problem is trying to blame somebody for what is happening. The NIL was just the final nail in the coffin for schools outside the Power 5. It started a few years ago when the NCAA due to bitching from the power 5 conferences not happy with the RPI, torpedoed it for a model that is blatantly unfair to anybody not in a power 6 conference. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the A10 started slipping in these rankings when this change happened and sub 500 teams in power 5 conferences went up? Look at VCU last year. Their RPI was 25 last year. This has been consistent since the Net has been adopted.
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/ ... t?team=VCU

They would have been a shoo in for the NCAA before this ridiculous change with an RPI of 25. With a net of 54, they had no chance of getting an at large bid. Others with similar NETS could so in addition to this, they now make Quad 1 one wins the holy grail. Guess who has 10 or more opportunities for those wins? Oh yeah the Power 6. Nobody else has the same opportunity. They have cooked the books well before the NIL change. It sucks, not sure what will happen going forward but certainly not trending in the right direction.

And come on, there is no way in hell Rhode Island will end up in the Big East.

[Obadiah]

Will URI continue to invest in URI basketball at this level in a 1 bid A10? Will most of the teams except the few with aspirations beyond the A10, reduce their commitments? I would think many would say why continue to invest at this level with a 1 in 100 chance of making the NCAA after this commissioner is done adding teams.

While conferences are critical to performance, the fundamental weakness of this question is its implicit dismissal of the importance of individual programs, ignoring what URI can control while placing pivotal importance on what URI cannot control. URI, to best position itself the face of uncontrollable future events, must always be on a continuous improvement campaign, the one item the school controls. In your world, if Dayton or VCU were to leave the A-10 - the uncontrollable event - URI would then cut back in investing in program like cutting back on recruiting, team travel, etc. That's surrender and I prefer the words of Winston Churchill - never give in, never give in, never, never, never!

[Obadiah]

Will URI continue to invest in URI basketball at this level in a 1 bid A10? Will most of the teams except the few with aspirations beyond the A10, reduce their commitments? I would think many would say why continue to invest at this level with a 1 in 100 chance of making the NCAA after this commissioner is done adding teams.

Best case for me is that we land in a basketball-centric conference with committed programs striving for NCAAT at-large bids.

I still think that is possible.

I thought we were already in a basketbal-centric conference since out of 14 member schools, only one plays football at the FBS level, 2 play in the top FCS level and 4 others play in FCS mid major level. Excluding the BE what other basketball-centric conference is better than the A-10?

[Jdrums#3]

Ob, good point. I would dislike it if we threw in the towel without exhausting every conceivable option - including controlling what we can control.

4Diffs made a good post above. I get it - there is plenty of blame to go around. However, regarding the NET, NIL, recruiting, program financial support, we have always been at a disadvantage to the power programs, blue bloods or whatever we decide to lump in to that group. It (power school advantages) aren’t hidden anymore (like them paying players under the table before NIL), it is allowed.

I just don’t know how much worse our disadvantages are today versus 5, 10, 15, 20 or more years ago because I have not done a deep dive investigation into the disparities. It sure does feel worse to me. But maybe it feels worse to me now because it is out in the open now and I have time to spend more time here reading opinions than I have in the past ?

I don’t have a final answer to my own question yet. I guess time will provide one, though.

Good offseason discussion.

[Blue Man]

The onus is still on URI to have a better team, and I think we’re well on our way and doing everything the institution can control to the best of our ability.

Meaning coaches, facilities, etc.

It’s on them to execute.

The conference is doing no one any favors and not giving anyone an advantage.

They should be trying to zig while others zag, doing things differently, but instead we’re “staying the course” - great leadership!!

[Jdrums#3]

Will URI continue to invest in URI basketball at this level in a 1 bid A10? Will most of the teams except the few with aspirations beyond the A10, reduce their commitments? I would think many would say why continue to invest at this level with a 1 in 100 chance of making the NCAA after this commissioner is done adding teams.

Best case for me is that we land in a basketball-centric conference with committed programs striving for NCAAT at-large bids.

I still think that is possible.

I thought we were already in a basketbal-centric conference since out of 14 member schools, only one plays football at the FBS level, 2 play in the top FCS level and 4 others play in FCS mid major level. Excluding the BE what other basketball-centric conference is better than the A-10?

Ob, it (the A10) is considered a bb-centric conference. But, to clarify my post above, it is not the smaller one of 11-12 members with equal commitment (or, at least close to equal) amongst all members. That’s the type of conference I favor for us at this time with those 3 conditions included - at the least - when I speculate on conf set up options for us.

[RIFan]

I agree we should not throw in the towel, if anything we should increase the commitment to position us best for the future.

[Rhodysk]

Why would the BE want URI?

Why not?

URI could have a lot to offer.
Low cost of travel for other schools
Natural Rivalry with Pee Cee/ maybe UConn
Beautiful on campus arena
Basketball practice facility
Named coach.

Big East is going to have to expand at some point.
And when that happens they are gonna hit the A-10.
Dayton, saint Louis, VCU obviously the Likely candidates but URI has to put a PLAN together and go for it.

Did anyone really see SMU joining the ACC? They put a plan together and went for it. Not accepting TV money was a Brilliant move.
SMU is going to use the ACC brand and teams to make money. Think about how many sell outs they are now going to have in multiple sporting events because of visiting teams.
Recruiting is definitely going to go up and their schedule strength will be in the top 75.

So again I say why not URI. This is when the athletic office could make a stand. Get a plan together and go for it.

I rather them go down trying than sitting on their hands watching teams move on.

I don’t know about everyone else but I really don’t want to watch URI battle St. Bonnie’s for the 3rd straight year for the A-10 automatic bid to the NCAA just to be a 15 or 16 seed in the NCAA tourney.

[Blue Man]

PC and UConn would both block the move. Unless URI attached themselves to Dayton and went as a package.

[section(105)]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

[RIFan]

I’m all for a bunch of team’s breaking from the A10 and starting fresh. Anchored by URI, Dayton, VCU and St. Louis.

[RhowdyRam02]

UMass joining the MAC will give their sorry FBS football program a home but I doubt residents of MA will ever have much interest in seeing the Minutemen play a bunch of Midwestern teams in any sport.

If UMass leaves, I have no issue with URI scheduling them in OOC games in men's hoops. With PC and Brown always on the schedule, I do not think we need to do the same playing Mass every season. I however would like to continue to play them on a fairly regular basis. Something like two to three home and home series each decade would work for me

Based on their attendance the residence of MA don't have much of an interest in seeing the Minutemen play now either

[RhowdyRam02]

UMass joining the MAC will give their sorry FBS football program a home but I doubt residents of MA will ever have much interest in seeing the Minutemen play a bunch of Midwestern teams in any sport.

If UMass leaves, I have no issue with URI scheduling them in OOC games in men's hoops. With PC and Brown always on the schedule, I do not think we need to do the same playing Mass every season. I however would like to continue to play them on a fairly regular basis. Something like two to three home and home series each decade would work for me

Sounds like they're doing football only. Can't imagine UMass would support a significant downgrade in basketball play.

It's not like it's the Big XII and they'd get a bump in both sports.

The MAC already kicked them out as a football only member and said it's all sports or nothing. UMass hasn't done anything in the decade or so since to make the MAC say yeah we need your football program so much that we'll only take them and nothing else

[RhowdyRam02]

Basically, UMass and Delaware will be playing at least 4 out of the 5 road games, possibly all 5 depending on where their annual head to head meeting is scheduled, in either Ohio or Michigan.

Better get those frequent flyer miles up to date.

UMass' schedule this year has road games at New Mexico St, Auburn, Eastern Michigan, Penn State, Army, and Liberty. Seems like they'd already be used to it and this might be even better

[RhowdyRam02]

As far as conference realignment goes I think URI’s ceiling is Big East for all sports except football ( staying in CAA ) and the floor could be a very watered down A-10 in all sports except football.

Just to be clear Football belongs in the CAA with updates to stadium. URI going FBS is like me winning the powerball.
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

But I do think all there sports including men’s and women’s basketball could compete in the big east.
URI would have to make themselves attractive and wheel and deal.
With that said, that is the absolute best case for URI.
But I have a bad feeling a watered down A-10 and 1 bid NCAA is more likely to happen.

Well put, sk. I think this is a very objective summary of the bands of possibilities URI faces in this re-alignment scenario. Whether the Big East is a possibility for URI is not the point, the point is that it is the ceiling and the floor is a watered down A-10. Now between floor-ceiling poles is the most probable development and that may be closer to the floor than the ceiling. Stayed tuned.

It's kind of the point though? Like if everyone knows we can't and never will get into the Big East, doesn't it mean it's not our ceiling and not relevant to these discussions at all?

Like I can say my dating ceiling is Elisha Cuthbert, but if everyone knows that's not possible, A. is that really my ceiling? No, that possibility is above my ceiling. And B. why even mention it?

[RhowdyRam02]

Guess what, college basketball and college athletics have changed, and not for the better for anybody not in the power 5, 4 whatever it is now. To blame the commissioner for the A10 sinking in this environment is not fair. Convenient scape goat for sure. You have to judge her based on what is going on in college athletics. It is frankly awful how colleges have just whored themselves out to chase the almighty dollar. It is sad and I am not sure there is a place at the table anymore for schools like URI. There is no way the A10 can be a 15 team league and be a one bid league. The league will clearly splinter if that is the case. It is very likely that will happen. I love all sports but college basketball has always been my favorite. Sadly I do not believe that will be the case going forward. I was trying to convince myself that this was just a moment in time that will pass and the A10 will go back to being a multi bid league. But then the Pac 12 just got demolished, who thought you would see Stanford in the ACC? How does that make any sense? They actually got penalized for being loyal to the league, I am sure they could have had their pick of conferences if they were looking to jump ship. But they were not expecting the PAC12 to get blown up. It sucks but all this handwringing about the commissioner being the problem is trying to blame somebody for what is happening. The NIL was just the final nail in the coffin for schools outside the Power 5. It started a few years ago when the NCAA due to bitching from the power 5 conferences not happy with the RPI, torpedoed it for a model that is blatantly unfair to anybody not in a power 6 conference. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the A10 started slipping in these rankings when this change happened and sub 500 teams in power 5 conferences went up? Look at VCU last year. Their RPI was 25 last year. This has been consistent since the Net has been adopted.
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/ ... t?team=VCU

They would have been a shoo in for the NCAA before this ridiculous change with an RPI of 25. With a net of 54, they had no chance of getting an at large bid. Others with similar NETS could so in addition to this, they now make Quad 1 one wins the holy grail. Guess who has 10 or more opportunities for those wins? Oh yeah the Power 6. Nobody else has the same opportunity. They have cooked the books well before the NIL change. It sucks, not sure what will happen going forward but certainly not trending in the right direction.

And come on, there is no way in hell Rhode Island will end up in the Big East.

Two questions. If the A10 and its commissioner are powerless in all of this, this is the natural order of things and nothing can be done to change it:

1. Why are other mid-major conferences passing over the once stronger A10? and
2. Why even have a commissioner than? What is their purpose if not to lead but just stand watch while everything changes around them?

[RhowdyRam02]

Will URI continue to invest in URI basketball at this level in a 1 bid A10? Will most of the teams except the few with aspirations beyond the A10, reduce their commitments? I would think many would say why continue to invest at this level with a 1 in 100 chance of making the NCAA after this commissioner is done adding teams.

While conferences are critical to performance, the fundamental weakness of this question is its implicit dismissal of the importance of individual programs, ignoring what URI can control while placing pivotal importance on what URI cannot control. URI, to best position itself the face of uncontrollable future events, must always be on a continuous improvement campaign, the one item the school controls. In your world, if Dayton or VCU were to leave the A-10 - the uncontrollable event - URI would then cut back in investing in program like cutting back on recruiting, team travel, etc. That's surrender and I prefer the words of Winston Churchill - never give in, never give in, never, never, never!

You assume that URI could continue to invest at a certain level no matter what. There is a point where the A10 is so weakened and so bloated that the conference revenue from outside sources is low and the attendance and donations dry up and therefore URI can't invest at anything above an America East type level because the extra money just doesn't exist.

You can control investing to a certain extent, but there are definitely outside influences to it as well

[RhowdyRam02]

I agree we should not throw in the towel, if anything we should increase the commitment to position us best for the future.

Here's the problem, we really only have 3 realistic futures as best I can tell, no matter what we do in terms of investing and competing:

1. Stay the course, continue to watch the A10 founder, and eventually be in a league equivalent to the America East except with a much larger footprint and not geographically good for us.
2. Demand, and achieve, major change from the A10 that gets all schools to commit far more to basketball and if not they're out of the league.
3. Create a splinter group of top A10 schools and others to have a leaner, more focused basketball conference

[RhowdyRam02]

PC and UConn would both block the move. Unless URI attached themselves to Dayton and went as a package.

And Dayton probably isn't in the Big East or ever bound to go there because Xavier will block their move. Conferences don't view local rivals the way fans do. They view them as negatives

[RhowdyRam02]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

[RhodyKyle]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

[Obadiah]

Guess what, college basketball and college athletics have changed, and not for the better for anybody not in the power 5, 4 whatever it is now. To blame the commissioner for the A10 sinking in this environment is not fair. Convenient scape goat for sure. You have to judge her based on what is going on in college athletics. It is frankly awful how colleges have just whored themselves out to chase the almighty dollar. It is sad and I am not sure there is a place at the table anymore for schools like URI. There is no way the A10 can be a 15 team league and be a one bid league. The league will clearly splinter if that is the case. It is very likely that will happen. I love all sports but college basketball has always been my favorite. Sadly I do not believe that will be the case going forward. I was trying to convince myself that this was just a moment in time that will pass and the A10 will go back to being a multi bid league. But then the Pac 12 just got demolished, who thought you would see Stanford in the ACC? How does that make any sense? They actually got penalized for being loyal to the league, I am sure they could have had their pick of conferences if they were looking to jump ship. But they were not expecting the PAC12 to get blown up. It sucks but all this handwringing about the commissioner being the problem is trying to blame somebody for what is happening. The NIL was just the final nail in the coffin for schools outside the Power 5. It started a few years ago when the NCAA due to bitching from the power 5 conferences not happy with the RPI, torpedoed it for a model that is blatantly unfair to anybody not in a power 6 conference. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the A10 started slipping in these rankings when this change happened and sub 500 teams in power 5 conferences went up? Look at VCU last year. Their RPI was 25 last year. This has been consistent since the Net has been adopted.
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/ ... t?team=VCU

They would have been a shoo in for the NCAA before this ridiculous change with an RPI of 25. With a net of 54, they had no chance of getting an at large bid. Others with similar NETS could so in addition to this, they now make Quad 1 one wins the holy grail. Guess who has 10 or more opportunities for those wins? Oh yeah the Power 6. Nobody else has the same opportunity. They have cooked the books well before the NIL change. It sucks, not sure what will happen going forward but certainly not trending in the right direction.

And come on, there is no way in hell Rhode Island will end up in the Big East.

Two questions. If the A10 and its commissioner are powerless in all of this, this is the natural order of things and nothing can be done to change it:

1. Why are other mid-major conferences passing over the once stronger A10? and
2. Why even have a commissioner than? What is their purpose if not to lead but just stand watch while everything changes around them?

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

[Obadiah]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

• “It’s been evident for a while, and this is the most definitive iteration, that geography doesn’t really matter anymore,” American Athletic Conference commissioner Mike Aresco said. “This is a new world.”

[ramster]

Guess what, college basketball and college athletics have changed, and not for the better for anybody not in the power 5, 4 whatever it is now. To blame the commissioner for the A10 sinking in this environment is not fair. Convenient scape goat for sure. You have to judge her based on what is going on in college athletics. It is frankly awful how colleges have just whored themselves out to chase the almighty dollar. It is sad and I am not sure there is a place at the table anymore for schools like URI. There is no way the A10 can be a 15 team league and be a one bid league. The league will clearly splinter if that is the case. It is very likely that will happen. I love all sports but college basketball has always been my favorite. Sadly I do not believe that will be the case going forward. I was trying to convince myself that this was just a moment in time that will pass and the A10 will go back to being a multi bid league. But then the Pac 12 just got demolished, who thought you would see Stanford in the ACC? How does that make any sense? They actually got penalized for being loyal to the league, I am sure they could have had their pick of conferences if they were looking to jump ship. But they were not expecting the PAC12 to get blown up. It sucks but all this handwringing about the commissioner being the problem is trying to blame somebody for what is happening. The NIL was just the final nail in the coffin for schools outside the Power 5. It started a few years ago when the NCAA due to bitching from the power 5 conferences not happy with the RPI, torpedoed it for a model that is blatantly unfair to anybody not in a power 6 conference. Do you think it is just a coincidence that the A10 started slipping in these rankings when this change happened and sub 500 teams in power 5 conferences went up? Look at VCU last year. Their RPI was 25 last year. This has been consistent since the Net has been adopted.
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/ ... t?team=VCU

They would have been a shoo in for the NCAA before this ridiculous change with an RPI of 25. With a net of 54, they had no chance of getting an at large bid. Others with similar NETS could so in addition to this, they now make Quad 1 one wins the holy grail. Guess who has 10 or more opportunities for those wins? Oh yeah the Power 6. Nobody else has the same opportunity. They have cooked the books well before the NIL change. It sucks, not sure what will happen going forward but certainly not trending in the right direction.

And come on, there is no way in hell Rhode Island will end up in the Big East.

Two questions. If the A10 and its commissioner are powerless in all of this, this is the natural order of things and nothing can be done to change it:

1. Why are other mid-major conferences passing over the once stronger A10? and
2. Why even have a commissioner than? What is their purpose if not to lead but just stand watch while everything changes around them?

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.

[RhowdyRam02]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

I completely agree, hell you have Duke, UNC, and NC State all within about 80 square miles of each other. However the middle conferences seem to care about hoarding their geographical base in ways that higher conferences don't care about as much and lower conferences can't afford to care about as much

[Jersey77]

Two questions. If the A10 and its commissioner are powerless in all of this, this is the natural order of things and nothing can be done to change it:

1. Why are other mid-major conferences passing over the once stronger A10? and
2. Why even have a commissioner than? What is their purpose if not to lead but just stand watch while everything changes around them?

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

The A10 fell behind last season, after the top tier teams disappointed.
Let's not act like that is going to be an ongoing situation.
The top teams from C-USA left for the AAC.
Sam Houston left the WAC and we are projected to be once again stronger than them.
So yeah, other than having another meltdown most project the A10 to be in the top 10 again.

In 2014 the A10 had 6 teams in the "Dance" and all those teams are still in our conference.
Since then, 4 different teams got bids, in all 10 separate programs were invited to the NCAAT in the last 9 years.
So the question is what happened since, just look at us the last 5 years, and where should we point the finger?
As I keep saying, it is up to the individual programs to up their game, they are the ones accountable.

I would still take our conference over almost all the other mid-majors.
The AAC and MWC have an advantage because of football.
The WCC conference is primarily the Big 2 with Gonzaga and St. Mary's.

[Obadiah]

Two questions. If the A10 and its commissioner are powerless in all of this, this is the natural order of things and nothing can be done to change it:

1. Why are other mid-major conferences passing over the once stronger A10? and
2. Why even have a commissioner than? What is their purpose if not to lead but just stand watch while everything changes around them?

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

Thanks, but Mountain West, WAC, AAC, Conference USA are FBS conferences. In basketball centric group (ex BE), the West Coast Conference is ahead of the A-10, but only slightly. And that conference is very imbalanced, take out one school, Gonzaga, and the metrics change significantly.

[ramster]

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

I completely agree, hell you have Duke, UNC, and NC State all within about 80 square miles of each other. However the middle conferences seem to care about hoarding their geographical base in ways that higher conferences don't care about as much and lower conferences can't afford to care about as much

Yep. The Big East especially territorial and very unlikely to change

[theblueram]

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

Thanks, but Mountain West, WAC, AAC, Conference USA are FBS conferences. In basketball centric group (ex BE), the West Coast Conference is ahead of the A-10, but only slightly. And that conference is very imbalanced, take out one school, Gonzaga, and the metrics change significantly.

They are mid major basketball conferences.

[Jersey77]

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

Thanks, but Mountain West, WAC, AAC, Conference USA are FBS conferences. In basketball centric group (ex BE), the West Coast Conference is ahead of the A-10, but only slightly. And that conference is very imbalanced, take out one school, Gonzaga, and the metrics change significantly.

They are mid major basketball conferences.

Yes, but that puts us at a financial disadvantage to them.
The AAC media deal generated about $7M per program, the MWC about $4M.
https://www.sportspromedia.com/broadcas ... ox-sports/
https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2022/2/ ... -contracts

Also in terms of possible expansion, limits us in attracting some quality programs that may move the needle because we don't have FBS football.

[section(105)]

Sales pitch for URI for the BE is exactly what? Just asking.

[rjsuperfly66]

Why would the BE want URI? I agree, they don’t. One factor is a move by the BE for URI would not grow their market, footprint, or a new TV market. No?

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

40-50 years ago, it was natural for conferences to form with schools closer for geographic purposes. Now it's about what you bring to the table - media markets, quality of team, etc. And I know you pointed out USC/UCLA moving together, but that is two teams splitting a 6 million person media market. Both bring different things to the table. URI will never have an invite to the BE unless they turn into a perennial Top 25 team, and even then that is probably not enough.

[RhodyKyle]

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

40-50 years ago, it was natural for conferences to form with schools closer for geographic purposes. Now it's about what you bring to the table - media markets, quality of team, etc. And I know you pointed out USC/UCLA moving together, but that is two teams splitting a 6 million person media market. Both bring different things to the table. URI will never have an invite to the BE unless they turn into a perennial Top 25 team, and even then that is probably not enough.

That's a different argument altogether. No one here disagrees with that. We were saying that using geographic proximity as a reason to block someone is petty and shortsighted.

[section(105)]

Correct, and UConn and PC would never want a school so close to compete with them

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

40-50 years ago, it was natural for conferences to form with schools closer for geographic purposes. Now it's about what you bring to the table - media markets, quality of team, etc. And I know you pointed out USC/UCLA moving together, but that is two teams splitting a 6 million person media market. Both bring different things to the table. URI will never have an invite to the BE unless they turn into a perennial Top 25 team, and even then that is probably not enough.

Totally agree. The BE is most likely not gonna extend an invite to a team that has paved cow paths to an already monopolized TV small market by a current BE member. URI needs to be the best it can to develop its own brand and dominate the current conference environment. What does URI bring to the BE table? Please save the travel costs piece at the BE level.

[rjsuperfly66]

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

40-50 years ago, it was natural for conferences to form with schools closer for geographic purposes. Now it's about what you bring to the table - media markets, quality of team, etc. And I know you pointed out USC/UCLA moving together, but that is two teams splitting a 6 million person media market. Both bring different things to the table. URI will never have an invite to the BE unless they turn into a perennial Top 25 team, and even then that is probably not enough.

That's a different argument altogether. No one here disagrees with that. We were saying that using geographic proximity as a reason to block someone is petty and shortsighted.

Why is it petty and shortsighted?

I would agree if a team was a slam dunk, have to have them, and they were blocked.

All things being equal though, expansion at this level is driven almost entirely by what drives TV contract revenue.

A second team in a small media market is pretty much a non-starter because it does nothing to elevate the bar. Nothing about that is petty or short-sighted. It's long-term strategic thinking on what sells.

[bigappleram]

Geography is meaningless. If Rhody was a consistent top 40 program where we are located wouldn’t matter. Butler got a BE invite of 2 magical years they will likely never come close replicating again. Creighton is in freakin Omaha.

[Jersey77]

Geography is meaningless. If Rhody was a consistent top 40 program where we are located wouldn’t matter. Butler got a BE invite of 2 magical years they will likely never come close replicating again. Creighton is in freakin Omaha.

Yes BAR and Creighton also ranks 6th in the nation in home attendance (17,163 per game)

[bigappleram]

Geography is meaningless. If Rhody was a consistent top 40 program where we are located wouldn’t matter. Butler got a BE invite of 2 magical years they will likely never come close replicating again. Creighton is in freakin Omaha.

Yes BAR and Creighton also ranks 6th in the nation in home attendance (17,163 per game)

Sure, you ever been to Omaha? Not much going on.
But not the point. They are a brand in hoops that is why they were invited not bc someone wanted to capture the Omaha media market. In a world of streaming and digital media TV markets are less impt in traditional sense.

[Jersey77]

Geography is meaningless. If Rhody was a consistent top 40 program where we are located wouldn’t matter. Butler got a BE invite of 2 magical years they will likely never come close replicating again. Creighton is in freakin Omaha.

Yes BAR and Creighton also ranks 6th in the nation in home attendance (17,163 per game)

Sure, you ever been to Omaha? Not much going on.
But not the point. They are a brand in hoops that is why they were invited not bc someone wanted to capture the Omaha media market. In a world of streaming and digital media TV markets are less impt in traditional sense.

Yeah I know what you meant, just thought I would throw that in.

But I lived in Lincoln, Ne for 24 years and have kids and grandchildren there.
Not such a bad place, and also home to the College World Series.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Geography is meaningless. If Rhody was a consistent top 40 program where we are located wouldn’t matter. Butler got a BE invite of 2 magical years they will likely never come close replicating again. Creighton is in freakin Omaha.

Yes BAR and Creighton also ranks 6th in the nation in home attendance (17,163 per game)

Well, yeah...I mean...dollar beer night....hello....

[DuneClub]

Creighton as good as they are, would likely never have been invited had the Cat7 not defected (while still owning the name/playing @ MSG). They were the last school "in."

I think the BE will not add any U's unless FOX really demands it. But why? A round robin -20- is enough.
IMO the next school who may ask -with mutual interest- is BC but that's years away.

[ramster]

Which mid-major conferences have passed over the A-10?

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

Thanks, but Mountain West, WAC, AAC, Conference USA are FBS conferences. In basketball centric group (ex BE), the West Coast Conference is ahead of the A-10, but only slightly. And that conference is very imbalanced, take out one school, Gonzaga, and the metrics change significantly.

True. But for years A10 was 7th Ranked with P6 Conferences ahead. These Conferences ahead of A10 now were FBS then too. Why has changed is that the A10 has steadily become weaker.

[Jersey77]

2023 NET

A10 overall is slipping in overall NET, number of At-Large teams and really dropped in seeding

5 Mid-major Conferences ahead of A10
Ivy League, Sunbelt and Missouri Valley behind A10

A10 used to be the Top Mid Major

All Mid Major conferences have to deal with NIl, 5th Covid Year, Free Transfer Year, P6 Teams playing more conference games, P6 Teams not wanting to play mid-majors, etc. no argument there. Question is why has A10 slipped so much compared to other mid-majors.


2BE0206B-36F5-4149-B654-14DDE124ECA9.jpeg

Thanks, but Mountain West, WAC, AAC, Conference USA are FBS conferences. In basketball centric group (ex BE), the West Coast Conference is ahead of the A-10, but only slightly. And that conference is very imbalanced, take out one school, Gonzaga, and the metrics change significantly.

True. But for years A10 was 7th Ranked with P6 Conferences ahead. These Conferences ahead of A10 now were FBS then too. Why has changed is that the A10 has steadily become weaker.

Very good question Ramster to ask our conference AD's.
I can try to take a partial stab.

I think you are primarily referring to the AAC and the MWC because C-USA and the WAC are and have been for the last 10 years perennial 1-bid conferences.

The AAC formerly the original BE had several strong teams and since the Catholic 7 split has had some up and down years.

Media and $ seems to be playing a more significant role as of late, especially now with the NIL.
The MWC really came on much stronger the last 2 seasons.

After the AAC and the MWC the revenue $ drop sharply.
I am not that concerned about C-USA or the WAC going forward as long as our programs get their act together.

Just my opinion, even though most here seem to always disagree with me.

[Obadiah]

"A second team in a small media market is pretty much a non-starter because it does nothing to elevate the bar. Nothing about that is petty or short-sighted. It's long-term strategic thinking on what sells."

superfly, you keep making this same old-same old comment which is a passe' thought. There are many reasons that keep URI out of the BE, but this is not one of them. Media is driving realignment because they control the money and if you talk to any high level media people, you will learn that what matters in today's media formatting are brands, pairings, and time slots and these are the main drivers behind the current alignment frenzy.

The Big East has done very we'll in competing against the basketball programs of FBS schools, but the transition of the P5 into the P2 will present the BE with a group of even better financed athletics/basketball programs. For example, the BE currently receives media rights to the tune of $4+ million per school. In the next cycle that will probably be raised to the $7 million range. In contrast, the new P2 keyed by football will get $70-80 million.

The P2 now stands at 28 teams moving to 32 and if the Big10 & SEC were to move to twenty teams, they would potentially be able to offer about 40 pairings each week in the basketball season compared to the BE's 22. An enlarged B10/SEC will offer many more attractive match-ups which is where the “brands” come into play. With more brands and more match-ups, they will have the ability to gobble up the best time slots.

It is apparent that sooner or later, UConn will bolt for an all sports conference, and the question of expanding the BE will be raised. The dilemma facing the BE, unlike the recent expansion of the B10 and SEC, is that there are hardly any potential schools with brand recognition that will raise the stature of the BE. Gonzaga comes to mind and there are a few other candidates - Wichita State, Dayton, VCU – but they do not excite significantly. So the question is will the BE expand and by how many. A positive answer to this question will unfavorably impact the A-10.

BTW, according to Nielsen there are 210 media markets in the US and Providence ranks #51, about the same size as Memphis and New Orleans, hardly the small connotation you apply to it.

[Jersey77]

"A second team in a small media market is pretty much a non-starter because it does nothing to elevate the bar. Nothing about that is petty or short-sighted. It's long-term strategic thinking on what sells."

superfly, you keep making this same old-same old comment which is a passe' thought. There are many reasons that keep URI out of the BE, but this is not one of them. Media is driving realignment because they control the money and if you talk to any high level media people, you will learn that what matters in today's media formatting are brands, pairings, and time slots and these are the main drivers behind the current alignment frenzy.

The Big East has done very we'll in competing against the basketball programs of FBS schools, but the transition of the P5 into the P2 will present the BE with a group of even better financed athletics/basketball programs. For example, the BE currently receives media rights to the tune of $4+ million per school. In the next cycle that will probably be raised to the $7 million range. In contrast, the new P2 keyed by football will get $70-80 million.

The P2 now stands at 28 teams moving to 32 and if the Big10 & SEC were to move to twenty teams, they would potentially be able to offer about 40 pairings each week in the basketball season compared to the BE's 22. An enlarged B10/SEC will offer many more attractive match-ups which is where the “brands” come into play. With more brands and more match-ups, they will have the ability to gobble up the best time slots.

It is apparent that sooner or later, UConn will bolt for an all sports conference, and the question of expanding the BE will be raised. The dilemma facing the BE, unlike the recent expansion of the B10 and SEC, is that there are hardly any potential schools with brand recognition that will raise the stature of the BE. Gonzaga comes to mind and there are a few other candidates - Wichita State, Dayton, VCU – but they do not excite significantly. So the question is will the BE expand and by how many. A positive answer to this question will unfavorably impact the A-10.

BTW, according to Nielsen there are 210 media markets in the US and Providence ranks #51, about the same size as Memphis and New Orleans, hardly the small connotation you apply to it.

Wonder how Wichita State will perform under new HC Paul Mills and if they can regain some of its success with Gregg Marshall. Previous coach Isaac Brown started out well and was rewarded with a 5-year contract in Feb. 2021 but was fired after this past season.

Le's see how much pressure Fox Sports puts on the BE to expand since they bankrolled and brokered the Catholic-7 split.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Which is shame because Oklahoma/Oklahoma St are only 80ish miles apart, Kansas/KSU are also only 80ish miles apart, Stanford/Cal are only 45ish mils apart, Oregon/Oregon State are also 45ish miles apart, and USC/UCLA are 10ish miles apart. They seem to thrive in the same conference (until Oklahoma chased that SEC football bag) - hell, USC and UCLA are moving to their second conference together.

If there are many instances where schools in close proximity can coexist at the power conference level, then it seems rather petty for PC and UConn to use proximity as a reason to block URI.

Except the conferences that comprise the Cartel were formed decades ago. Today it's a whole different world.

[rjsuperfly66]

"A second team in a small media market is pretty much a non-starter because it does nothing to elevate the bar. Nothing about that is petty or short-sighted. It's long-term strategic thinking on what sells."

superfly, you keep making this same old-same old comment which is a passe' thought. There are many reasons that keep URI out of the BE, but this is not one of them. Media is driving realignment because they control the money and if you talk to any high level media people, you will learn that what matters in today's media formatting are brands, pairings, and time slots and these are the main drivers behind the current alignment frenzy.

The Big East has done very we'll in competing against the basketball programs of FBS schools, but the transition of the P5 into the P2 will present the BE with a group of even better financed athletics/basketball programs. For example, the BE currently receives media rights to the tune of $4+ million per school. In the next cycle that will probably be raised to the $7 million range. In contrast, the new P2 keyed by football will get $70-80 million.

The P2 now stands at 28 teams moving to 32 and if the Big10 & SEC were to move to twenty teams, they would potentially be able to offer about 40 pairings each week in the basketball season compared to the BE's 22. An enlarged B10/SEC will offer many more attractive match-ups which is where the “brands” come into play. With more brands and more match-ups, they will have the ability to gobble up the best time slots.

It is apparent that sooner or later, UConn will bolt for an all sports conference, and the question of expanding the BE will be raised. The dilemma facing the BE, unlike the recent expansion of the B10 and SEC, is that there are hardly any potential schools with brand recognition that will raise the stature of the BE. Gonzaga comes to mind and there are a few other candidates - Wichita State, Dayton, VCU – but they do not excite significantly. So the question is will the BE expand and by how many. A positive answer to this question will unfavorably impact the A-10.

BTW, according to Nielsen there are 210 media markets in the US and Providence ranks #51, about the same size as Memphis and New Orleans, hardly the small connotation you apply to it.

If PC was not a founding member of the Big East, I do not believe they would exist in the current formation of the Big East. At best, they would be in a conference like the A10. Fortunately for them, they are not. Providence may not be a tiny media market, but it is hardly a large one. And so when you hear the league/Fox not pushing to share in larger media markets, or even closer media markets to places like D.C, Philly, etc., why would they have interest in RI?

I don't disagree with many of your points on realignment, but I don't get the overall connection to the BE/URI being short-sighted. I believe expansion will happen as well and that many of the teams are not exactly moving the needle. My preference would be to build a western wing of the conference with Gonzaga, St, Mary's, etc, solely because I believe Gonzaga is the only thing that would move the needle but I don't think they ever come unless there is significant support for travel concerns.

[Obadiah]

Providence may not be a tiny media market, but it is hardly a large one. And so when you hear the league/Fox not pushing to share in larger media markets, or even closer media markets to places like D.C, Philly, etc., why would they have interest in RI?

Sorry, superbly, you misunderstand what I am saying. From this quote I gather that in your mind only large media markets count. I repeat the main drivers are not solely media markets, but brands and pairings. When Ohio State meets Michigan, the fact that Ann Arbor is a small market and Columbus is only slightly bigger than Providence is irrelevant because those brands meeting in a pairing in primetime is what sells as it attracts viewers from all over the country.

Also I never said anything about BE/URI being short sighted. where did you get that? My point was simply that URI will not get into the BE, but not because of the media market size/sharing. It is because of other factors. Media size was important item that Gavitt saw back in the 70's when the BE was formed. But that was then and today it is a different world.

Also, I did not say BE expansion will happen. All I said is the BE is facing a decision on the issue. Gonzaga would be a likely choice, but the BE lacks the football payoff to offset the increased travel expenses of their Olympic sports. When USC and UCLA face this in the new Big Ten, they will be comforted by the fact their media rights payments will show an Incremental $30 million annually. Not true of Gonzaga in the BE.

[rjsuperfly66]

Providence may not be a tiny media market, but it is hardly a large one. And so when you hear the league/Fox not pushing to share in larger media markets, or even closer media markets to places like D.C, Philly, etc., why would they have interest in RI?

Sorry, superbly, you misunderstand what I am saying. From this quote I gather that in your mind only large media markets count. I repeat the main drivers are not solely media markets, but brands and pairings. When Ohio State meets Michigan, the fact that Ann Arbor is a small market and Columbus is only slightly bigger than Providence is irrelevant because those brands meeting in a pairing in primetime is what sells as it attracts viewers from all over the country.

Also I never said anything about BE/URI being short sighted. where did you get that? My point was simply that URI will not get into the BE, but not because of the media market size/sharing. It is because of other factors. Media size was important item that Gavitt saw back in the 70's when the BE was formed. But that was then and today it is a different world.

Also, I did not say BE expansion will happen. All I said is the BE is facing a decision on the issue. Gonzaga would be a likely choice, but the BE lacks the football payoff to offset the increased travel expenses of their Olympic sports. When USC and UCLA face this in the new Big Ten, they will be comforted by the fact their media rights payments will show an Incremental $30 million annually. Not true of Gonzaga in the BE.

I agree with you that brand also matters and not necessarily media markets, but I also believe if you had two teams with almost identical program pedigree, that the league/network would choose a team in a new media market over a team in an existing one.

I think the larger expansion move is easier once conferences move to 22 conference games (which I believe will happen sooner than later). My hope is the play for the Big East would be to split into 2 8 team divisions. The existing teams would split into Division A of PC, UCONN, SJU, Seton Hall, Villanova, Xavier, Georgetown, ____ and Division B of Butler, Marquette, Creighton, DePaul, ____, ____, ____, and ____. You'd play your division home/home (14 games) and the other division once (8 games). The western division would comprise of Zaga and other midwestern/western friends.

The sell there is landing Gonzaga. For the network you can now sell conference triple-headers on Fox, games at 7, 9, 11 or 6:30, 8:30, 10:30. You've landed a marquee brand, and the sell to them is not just the bigger tv deal but for Olympic sports, mostly play in your division so no significant coast-to-coast travel.

That's what I believe the play has to be for Gonzaga, or something like it. Otherwise I think Gonzaga is perfectly content being where they are.