Conference Realignment

[Obadiah]

Was just listening to Andy Katz. Regarding the NCAAT, he made the point that with certain conferences expanding, it will be difficult to avoid 1st round tourney games from the same conference.

He speculated the BIG could get tourney 12 bids on selection Sunday in the future.

Another sucky unintended consequence of realignment unless they expand the tourney field.

They get more bids because they are a bigger conference, but that doesn't change the overall picture. For example, with a 14 team membership, say they got 8 bids and now with 20 team membership they get 12 and 4 of those bids come from old PAC -12 members; a conference that no longer exists. So an expanded Big Ten with 12 bids is no different than the old configuration with Big 10 getting 8 bids plus a PAC -12 getting 4 for a total of 12. There is no real difference in the overall scheme because teams get bids not conferences.

[Rhodymob05]

“The day the NCAA died”

[Jdrums#3]

Was just listening to Andy Katz. Regarding the NCAAT, he made the point that with certain conferences expanding, it will be difficult to avoid 1st round tourney games from the same conference.

He speculated the BIG could get tourney 12 bids on selection Sunday in the future.

Another sucky unintended consequence of realignment unless they expand the tourney field.

They get more bids because they are a bigger conference, but that doesn't change the overall picture. For example, with a 14 team membership, say they got 8 bids and now with 20 team membership they get 12 and 4 of those bids come from old PAC -12 members; a conference that no longer exists. So an expanded Big Ten with 12 bids is no different than the old configuration with Big 10 getting 8 bids plus a PAC -12 getting 4 for a total of 12. There is no real difference in the overall scheme because teams get bids not conferences.

Ob, I am not so sure. That would seem to make sense on the surface but what is the impact to the Net for them vs non-power conferences?

What IF The BIG (or SEC, Big 12) continue(s) to expand and play more conf games as a result and populate their OCC with games primarily from other power conf’s except for perhaps one early season tuneup OOC game and a couple of buy game exhibitions against non power conf schools?

How do conferences similar to the A10 compete based on NET if their opportunities to play power teams is limited to 1-2 games a season?

Since money is the motivator, I expect conf’s like the BIG and SEC to strive to grab more and more at-large bids and to tip the table to their advantage to do so.

That said, I hope you are correct and that Rhody can continue to compete for at-large bids and win tourney games well into the future.

Thanks for the response. I’ll have to give this all more thought.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

I’m of the belief that FBS football becomes 1A. All schools without big time football will become 1AA. This will filter down to basketball. Two different basketball national champions.

Been saying that for years. One day, the Cartel will break off from the NCAA and suck up all the college-sports oxygen, and that day is approaching more and more rapidly.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Big 12 Commish really wants UCONN

https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/uconn/ ... 274399.php

The members not so much.

I think the commish and UCONN are in the minority here. They're the only ones who are trying to sell this. I don't think the rest are too fond of going to Morgantown already. Adding a stop in Storrs is not a high priority of Big 12 presidents and coaches.

The reality is the Eastern schools missed the bus on this back in the early 90's when Penn State left for the Big Ten. They could've easily formed an all-sports conference back then:

Syracuse
WVU
Va Tech
Temple
BC
Pitt
Cincy
Rutgers
PSU

But basketball got in the way. And I realize the Rutgers and PSU may have gotten swallowed by the Big Ten eventually. But this conference formation was there for the taking in 1990. And who knows, UCONN, and UMASS perhaps (even Buffalo) would've gone to 1A football sooner so that they could join this party.

Joe Paterno spent at least a decade trying to put together an all-sports conference with Boston College, Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, West Virginia, Virginia Tech and Miami. Eventually he threw up his hands and joined the Big Ten, which started the dominoes falling.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Thanks for the response. I’ll have to give this all more thought.

Wut? Are you serious?

[Rhode_Island_Red]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/sport/or ... index.html

Don't be surprised if Cal and Stanford jump next -- academically they're a perfect fit and their presence will make those western trips more bearable.

[Jersey77]

"Arizona, Arizona State, Utah to join Big 12: Programs set to follow Colorado in leaving Pac-12"

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=062b0ad0 ... xMi8&ntb=1

[ramster]

Pac-12 and Mountain West merger? How it could happen and what it would mean for Colorado State

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/opinion-pa ... 19104.html

[NYGFan_Section208]

OK...I have naming dibs on "The Big Everywhere", "TBE", "The BEv", "The Beave", The B Ev", etc., for all of the remaining, um, stragglers?

[ramster]

Having a weak Conference Commissioner spells disaster for the PAC 12
No Plan B
No good media plan agreed upon
Chaos



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pac-12-med ... 02685.html

[Obadiah]

Having a weak Conference Commissioner spells disaster for the PAC 12
No Plan B
No good media plan agreed upon
Chaos



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pac-12-med ... 02685.html

Things are happening so fast that you have to note the date and TIME of the news release. Unfortunately, this yahoo article was posted at 9:57 AM. Another yahoo article was posted at 3:42 PM, but the winner was the CBS article just posted by Jersey77. The PAC-12 is now toast!

[ramster]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/final-week ... 15959.html

[Jersey77]

"Pac-12 (Pac-4) merger with the Mountain West seems like the only option"
https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/lists/ ... ly-option/

"Report: Mountain West Receptive to Potential Pac-12 Merger After Exodus"
https://trojanswire.usatoday.com/lists/ ... ly-option/

"Big Ten reportedly 'contemplating' whether to expand further with Stanford after recent Oregon and Washington additions"
https://www.si.com/college/stanford/foo ... -additions

[RF1]

The departure of five teams from the PAC-12 yesterday to other leagues was just a continuation of the vision of Dave Gavitt. He was the first to craft a league membership primarily designed around maximizing TV revenue. His pursuit of this goal cared little for long time traditions and rivalries. It was all about the BENJAMINS. Dave Gavitt ruined so much of what once made college athletics special. He made yesterday possible.

[Bartoburger]

The departure of five teams from the PAC-12 yesterday to other leagues was just a continuation of the vision of Dave Gavitt. He was the first to craft a league membership primarily designed around maximizing TV revenue. His pursuit of this goal cared little for long time traditions and rivalries. It was all about the BENJAMINS. Dave Gavitt ruined so much of what once made college athletics special. He made yesterday possible.

This realignment craze just gives everyone more of a reason to root for the underdog when the NCAA tournament starts. Dave was ahead of his time in many ways. If he didnt do it some other East coast AD would have made a similar league- but probably would have included football.

[ramster]

From Matt Fortuna..

For comparison, Big Ten full share distributions averaged out to $58.8M in 2021-22, before the conference's new TV deal has even started.
This is considered a major financial win for the conference, whose full-share members could project to upward of $70M by 2029-30.

Source: Oregon's and Washington's annual cut of the Big Ten's revenue distribution is expected to start at $30M and grow by $1M each year through the length of the current deal. They will receive full shares upon the next TV deal, in 2030-31.

They can borrow off future earnings.


https://sports.yahoo.com/initial-report ... 49735.html

[ramster]

[ramster]

Pac-12 (Pac-4) merger with the Mountain West seems like the only option
Matt Wadleigh
Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 5:07 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pac-12-pac ... 58035.html

[Obadiah]

As of now, the big winner in the realignment game is the Big Ten with its reach as the first coast to coast conference with diversity that is unmatched by the other conference that aspires to super conference status, the SEC. Make no mistake the SEC is looking carefully at the Big Ten in shaping its own future and may be goaded into taking action quicker on enlarging its membership to keep pace with the Big Ten.

But the Big Ten schools, especially UCLA and USC, are actively working on new concepts in sports management especially for their Olympic sports teams. They are using nutritionist to plan better meals for their athletes, using sleep specialists to help with cross country travel, weighing carefully the most optimal game times, etc, etc. There is also consideration of novel approaches to travel, for example USC and UCLA sharing charter flights to games in the Midwest. They are looking at the concept of "jamborees" for some sports, say six soccer teams traveling to one site to play multiple games over several days, Out of all these activities there is bound to emerge new ideas that will impact all college athletics. Exciting times are ahead.

[ramster]

Will be interesting to watch the SEC moving forward and the ACC

SEC has the State University for all states with the Red Line on the map. That's 12 states plus they have Vanderbilt, Texas A&M and Auburn. Very enticing on the map for the SEC would be Universities of North Carolina and Virginia that are in the ACC.

What's nice about the SEC is the contiguous nature of the map and the natural rivalries. Pretty much absorbed a good amount of the old Southwest Conference into the Southeast Conference.

Minimizes travel and maximizes geographical rivalries.



https://www.yahoo.com/sports/college-fo ... 13968.html

[Obadiah]

Actually, only three of the 8 members of the old Southwest Conference are now in the SEC - Arkansas, Texas A&M and next year Texas.

[ramster]

2023 Way too Early Top 25 FBS Football Rankings

SEC and Future SEC - 6 Teams
BIG10 and Future BIG10 - 8 Teams
BIG12 and Future BIG12 - 4 Teams
ACC - 3 Teams
AAC - 2 Teams
PAC12 without teams leaving - 1 Team
Independent - 1 Team

1. Georgia SEC
2. Michigan BIG10
3. Ohio State BIG10
4. Alabama SEC
5. Penn State BIG10
6. LSU SEC
7. Florida State ACC
8. USC PAC12 - Moving to BIG10
9. Washington PAC12 - Moving to BIG10
10. TCU BIG12
11. Utah PAC12 - Moving to BIG12
12. Tennessee SEC
13. Notre Dame INDEPENDENT
14. Clemson ACC
15. Oregon PAC12 - Moving to BIG10
16. Oregon State PAC12
17. Texas BIG12 - Moving to SEC
18. Tulane AAC
19. Texas Tech BIG12
20. Kansas State BIG12
21. Iowa BIG10
22. North Carolina ACC
23. Wisconsin BIG10
24. Mississippi SEC
25. Texas San Antonio Conference USA moving to AAC


https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/arti ... 023-season

[ramster]

Assessment of how the PAC-12 messed up.....

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pac-12-med ... 19979.html

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Assessment of how the PAC-12 messed up.....

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/pac-12-med ... 19979.html

The Pac-10 messed up by being on the west coast, making its TV rights worth less because of time zones.

[RhowdyRam02]

They really needed to go for the the Big 12's neck and grabbed other schools from the Big 12 back when they grabbed Colorado. Instead they grabbed Colorado, Utah from the Mountain West and called it a day. By letting the Big 12 live then they sealed their own fate a decade later.

If they grab Texas, Oklahoma, and say Kansas and Oklahoma State they are in a much different position now and who knows if the Big 12 is even around in a form that could threaten the Pac let alone kill it

[Obadiah]

Since football and media are the key drivers of realignment, here is a look at the US media markets from a football perspective. The Big Ten doubles up on SEC in this metric.

The Top Fifty Media Markets in US

1. New York Big Ten
2. Los Angeles Big Ten
3. Chicago Big Ten
4. Philadelphia Big Ten
5. Dallas-Ft. Worth SEC/Big 12
6. Atlanta SEC
7. Houston SEC/Big 12
8. Washington, DC Big Ten
9. Boston ACC
10. San Francisco Big Ten
11. Phoenix Big 12
12. Seattle Big Ten
13. Tampa SEC/ACC
14. Detroit Big Ten
15. Minneapolis/St. Paul Big Ten
16. Denver Big 12
17. Orlando SEC/ACC
18. Miami ACC/SEC
19. Cleveland Big Ten
20. Sacramento Big Ten
21. Charlotte ACC
22. Portland. OR Big Ten
23. Raleigh-Durham ACC
24. St. Louis SEC
25. Indianapolis Big Ten
26. Pittsburgh ACC/Big Ten
27. Nashville SEC
28. Baltimore Big Ten
29. Salt Lake City Big 12
30. San Diego MWC
31. San Antonio Big 12/SEC
32. Columbus Big Ten
33. Kansas City Big 12/SEC
34. Hartford/New Haven ACC
35. Austin SEC
36. Cincinnati Big 12/Big Ten
37. Greenville/Asheville ACC/SEC
38. Milwaukee Big Ten
39. West Palm Beach ACC/SEC
40. Las Vegas MWC
41. Jacksonville SEC/ACC
42. Grand Rapids Big Ten
43. Harrisburg BIG Ten/ACC
44. Norfolk ACC
45. Birmingham SEC
46. Oklahoma City SEC
47. Greensboro ACC
48. Louisville ACC/SEC
49. Albuquerque MWC
50. New Orleans SEC

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Since football and media are the key drivers of realignment, here is a look at the US media markets from a football perspective. The Big Ten doubles up on SEC in this metric.

The Top Fifty Media Markets in US

1. New York Big Ten
2. Los Angeles Big Ten
3. Chicago Big Ten
4. Philadelphia Big Ten
5. Dallas-Ft. Worth SEC/Big 12
6. Atlanta SEC
7. Houston SEC/Big 12
8. Washington, DC Big Ten
9. Boston ACC
10. San Francisco Big Ten
11. Phoenix Big 12
12. Seattle Big Ten
13. Tampa SEC/ACC
14. Detroit Big Ten
15. Minneapolis/St. Paul Big Ten
16. Denver Big 12
17. Orlando SEC/ACC
18. Miami ACC/SEC
19. Cleveland Big Ten
20. Sacramento Big Ten
21. Charlotte ACC
22. Portland. OR Big Ten
23. Raleigh-Durham ACC
24. St. Louis SEC
25. Indianapolis Big Ten
26. Pittsburgh ACC/Big Ten
27. Nashville SEC
28. Baltimore Big Ten
29. Salt Lake City Big 12
30. San Diego MWC
31. San Antonio Big 12/SEC
32. Columbus Big Ten
33. Kansas City Big 12/SEC
34. Hartford/New Haven ACC
35. Austin SEC
36. Cincinnati Big 12/Big Ten
37. Greenville/Asheville ACC/SEC
38. Milwaukee Big Ten
39. West Palm Beach ACC/SEC
40. Las Vegas MWC
41. Jacksonville SEC/ACC
42. Grand Rapids Big Ten
43. Harrisburg BIG Ten/ACC
44. Norfolk ACC
45. Birmingham SEC
46. Oklahoma City SEC
47. Greensboro ACC
48. Louisville ACC/SEC
49. Albuquerque MWC
50. New Orleans SEC

A few comments:
-- Most of the Washington, D.C., media market is in Virginia, which is solidly ACC country.
-- Boston is a lousy college-sports market. Unless the Red Sox join the ACC, there's minimal interest.
-- Not sure why San Francisco or Sacramento are Big 10 markets. Maybe they will be after Stanford and Cal join. BTW, Arthur Lee is still a punk.
-- The St. Louis market straddles Missouri and Illinois, so it's not a sure SEC market.
-- Nobody in Connecticut cares about the ACC, at least not until the Storrs Leg-humpers join.
-- The Cincinnati market includes Ohio and Kentucky, which is solid SEC country.

[Obadiah]

Yes, most of the markets you mentioned may have interests in more than one conference, but I was taking football-centric view which is why I put Big Ten and Maryland alongside Washington, DC. College park is only 15 miles from DC. No ACC school is that close.

Please note that this listing of media markets is a precursor to media rights, I put Hartford in the ACC category because conferences negotiate rights and UConn is an indy, so if CBS negotiates a deal with the ACC, the Hartford CBS station gets those games whether the viewers like it or not. This is very true of Boston because of BC.

You should not be reading this list rigidly, the important point is that the Big Ten with its greater prestige and diversity than the SEC has prominence in more of the major media markets and that ultimately means more bucks.

[ramster]

Clemson could be heading to SEC

SEC gets $30 million MORE per team per year than ACC.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/clemson-on ... 28505.html

[Jersey77]

Don't know quite what to make of this, one of several possibilities, I guess.

[Rhody15]

Don't know quite what to make of this, one of several possibilities, I guess.

Nothing says Atlantic Coast like California!

[Obadiah]

Don't know quite what to make of this, one of several possibilities, I guess.

J77, Interesting action by the ACC and it possibly reflects growing anxiety by the conference not to go the way of the PAC-12. The three weak holes to plug in the dike are Clemson, Florida State, and Clemson, but the prospect of incremental money may be just too much to not jump ship, no matter the exit fees.

[rhodylaw]

Cal and Stamford in the ACC is stupid. FSU and/or Clemson probably still leave and you are stuck with only 2 west coast teams. Dumb. Unless they intend to poach a couple more west coast teams - but shocker here - they are too late to get anyone quality.

I see the desire to have west coast teams in terms of a media deal. Easy to fill up late night (at least here in the East coast) slots. More content means more money in general, but there is nothing exciting about Cal or Stamford. Those are both teams that I will watch when they are playing someone else. Not a draw.

[ramster]

Cal and Stamford in the ACC is stupid. FSU and/or Clemson probably still leave and you are stuck with only 2 west coast teams. Dumb. Unless they intend to poach a couple more west coast teams - but shocker here - they are too late to get anyone quality.

I see the desire to have west coast teams in terms of a media deal. Easy to fill up late night (at least here in the East coast) slots. More content means more money in general, but there is nothing exciting about Cal or Stamford. Those are both teams that I will watch when they are playing someone else. Not a draw.

Yes it does seem stupid. But now this morning I read the AAC is interested in adding all 4 PAC-10 teams!
So now the Atlantic Coast Conference, the American Athletic Conference and the Mountain West Conference are all involved in courting some or all of the remaining PAC12 teams.


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/acc-explor ... 58238.html

[Jersey77]

The big elephant in the room is Notre Dame.
They are already a part-time member of the ACC and committed to play 5 ACC football games through 2036.
Do they remain an independent, join the ACC full-time, or leave for the B10?

[ramster]

Remain Independent

[Jersey77]

Remain Independent

Yep, that seems to be the prevailing opinion for now.
They can do whatever they want because they have such a huge brand name.

[Rhody15]

Remain Independent

Yep, that seems to be the prevailing opinion for now.
They can do whatever they want because they have such a huge brand name.

ND along with the Cowboys are the two most overrated sports teams in America, year after year.

[spookydog]

Remain Independent

Yep, that seems to be the prevailing opinion for now.
They can do whatever they want because they have such a huge brand name.

When inevitably the top ACC teams join either SEC or B10 & there ends up being two super conferences like it seems to be going, those conferences will just say to ND, if you don't join our conference, we won't play you. We will have our own national championship between our 2 conferences & they will be on the outside looking in.

[Obadiah]

For those having alignment nightmares here is a counter dream, though I admit it's a pipe dream.

How about eliminating separate conferences altogether and form one big FBS Conference with regional groupings a la the NFL format. In this way a school can maintain playing some traditional regional rivals and add the attractiveness of playing cross country rivals. An Alabama may object to the sharing of revenue with lesser schools, but certainly some kind of system/formula could be established that rewards those with top teams and more TV appearances.

[steviep123]

For those having alignment nightmares here is a counter dream, though I admit it's a pipe dream.

How about eliminating separate conferences altogether and form one big FBS Conference with regional groupings a la the NFL format. In this way a school can maintain playing some traditional regional rivals and add the attractiveness of playing cross country rivals. An Alabama may object to the sharing of revenue with lesser schools, but certainly some kind of system/formula could be established that rewards those with top teams and more TV appearances.

I like this idea...football does drive the bus so let them do their own thing, then other sports can form separate conferences. Maybe go back to the traditional Big 10 etc for hoops.

[ramster]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sec-footba ... 26583.html

[Obadiah]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sec-footba ... 26583.html

interesting perspective. No question the SEC excels on the football field, but the Big Ten is in the biggest media markets and that brings money. When the Big Ten added Maryland and Rutgers, not great football schools, their media payout increased over 50%. To the extent that money talks, the BIG has an advantage. Also Notre Dame is a key chip - open to the Big Ten, but never the SEC. For what its worth, the Big Ten offers more diversity and prestige than the SEC.

[Jdrums#3]

The SEC vs the BIG is turning out to be football’s version of The Civil War. I can picture all these administrators and network execs sitting around a big table with the board game Risk in the middle of the table.

Don’t let the BIG get a foothold in FL! Defend against infiltration! Cover the rear then go on the offensive!

I ask with a sense of sincere curiosity and comedic sarcasm…WTF is with these people beyond the typical, run of the mill human greed ?

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

Cal and Stamford in the ACC is stupid. FSU and/or Clemson probably still leave and you are stuck with only 2 west coast teams. Dumb. Unless they intend to poach a couple more west coast teams - but shocker here - they are too late to get anyone quality.

I see the desire to have west coast teams in terms of a media deal. Easy to fill up late night (at least here in the East coast) slots. More content means more money in general, but there is nothing exciting about Cal or Stamford. Those are both teams that I will watch when they are playing someone else. Not a draw.

It's Stanford, not Stamford.

[bigappleram]

Remain Independent

Yep, that seems to be the prevailing opinion for now.
They can do whatever they want because they have such a huge brand name.

ND along with the Cowboys are the two most overrated sports teams in America, year after year.

Also two of the most popular brands in sports. Love em or hate em them are the facts.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Cal and Stanford can do better than the ACC. Academically and athletically they fit into the Big 10 really well.



Arthur Lee is still a punk.

[Rhodysk]

Norte dame is negotiating their TV contract with NBC right now. Norte dame has ask for 60 million a year from NBC just for the homes games. If NBC agrees then Notre Dame will stay an independent for the next 10 years.
My opinion is if NBC comes back anything lower than 50 million then Notre Dame entertains the Big 10.


https://www.si.com/college/notredame/fo ... act-stires

[Rhodysk]

This is interesting

https://caasports.com/news/2023/8/9/caa ... -2024.aspx