Conference Realignment

[rjsuperfly66]

Money off the table? I leave anyway. Better teams, better visibility, better seeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying the BE is a bad conference. The only conferences I'd leave for are B12 and B1G.

And that's where I'll disagree with you - intangibles. Playing several conference game within close driving distance, a conference tournament a short drive away, natural rivalries with many teams, etc. I think there is way more value in that than just being in a stronger, deeper conference. Obviously if it were a 1-2 bid conference, yes you have to make considerations for tournament opportunities. BE affords plenty of opportunity to make tournament, get strong seed, etc. Maybe not as easy, but it's there. The other stuff I think is equally important. Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.

You had me, maybe, up until, 'maybe not as easy.' Then I thought about 'lucrative' and based on that, \would say...they be history. What school admin/prez/whatever is going to say, 'no, we don't want our football team in a P5 conference...because we're not sure it's in the best interests of our hoops team"? This doesn't seem like a hoops call, really...yes, they're the enticement, but the school (in its current financial sitch) "cain't say no...to that P5 foo'ball dough"

You missed my original point. Obviously with money/football as a factor, if they get the call they should run. I was counter-arguing the point that basketball alone was reason they should leave.

[RhodyKyle]

So if money/football did not matter in this argument, if you were UCONN would you leave the BE for the B12 for basketball?

I word it that way because I agree UCONN would be stupid to leave the money on the table if actually offered.

Money off the table? I leave anyway. Better teams, better visibility, better seeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying the BE is a bad conference. The only conferences I'd leave for are B12 and B1G.

And that's where I'll disagree with you - intangibles. Playing several conference game within close driving distance, a conference tournament a short drive away, natural rivalries with many teams, etc. I think there is way more value in that than just being in a stronger, deeper conference. Obviously if it were a 1-2 bid conference, yes you have to make considerations for tournament opportunities. BE affords plenty of opportunity to make tournament, get strong seed, etc. Maybe not as easy, but it's there. The other stuff I think is equally important. Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.

Big Monday, Super Tuesday, and other days of the week, turn on ESPN and there is likely a B12 game on. I watched a lot of them over the past several seasons. I strongly disagree with your statement on BE having the best tv visibility.

[RhodyKyle]

So if money/football did not matter in this argument, if you were UCONN would you leave the BE for the B12 for basketball?

I word it that way because I agree UCONN would be stupid to leave the money on the table if actually offered.

Money off the table? I leave anyway. Better teams, better visibility, better seeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying the BE is a bad conference. The only conferences I'd leave for are B12 and B1G.

B1G is hilariously overrated for basketball.

That may change with USC and UCLA, but their postseason success has been hot garbage.

Sure, they've had poor showings when it matters in March. Doesn't change the fact they consistently get the most teams in the tournament and get good seeds. Why not capitalize on the conference perception? Also, USC is too hot and cold in their success to raise the conference profile but UCLA is reliable so they're a good addition, even though I think it's entirely stupid that Maryland and UCLA will play each other during conference play. Nothing says regional conference rivalries quite like having to take a quick 6 hour flight somewhere.

[ramster]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.

[RF1]

Money off the table? I leave anyway. Better teams, better visibility, better seeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying the BE is a bad conference. The only conferences I'd leave for are B12 and B1G.

And that's where I'll disagree with you - intangibles. Playing several conference game within close driving distance, a conference tournament a short drive away, natural rivalries with many teams, etc. I think there is way more value in that than just being in a stronger, deeper conference. Obviously if it were a 1-2 bid conference, yes you have to make considerations for tournament opportunities. BE affords plenty of opportunity to make tournament, get strong seed, etc. Maybe not as easy, but it's there. The other stuff I think is equally important. Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.

Big Monday, Super Tuesday, and other days of the week, turn on ESPN and there is likely a B12 game on. I watched a lot of them over the past several seasons. I strongly disagree with your statement on BE having the best tv visibility.

Tough to argue that the BE has the best tv visibility when its tournament championship game gets trounced by the A-10 each year in the ratings.

Furthgermore, many Big East games are also on FS2 which is not part of most expanded cable lineups.

[bigappleram]

FS1 was 1 of the only networks airing cbb that saw their audience get smaller last season. Across the board CBB was watched by more people than the year prior. The Fox network proper window that the BE has is of great value but ESPN still rules the roost within the sport. Zero chance the BE's visibility is greater than the B12.

[Jersey77]

I have a difficult time seeing UConn turn down a P5 invite.
The bigger question is will they even get one and if they do the trickle-down effect to the A10.

[RAMFAN]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.



72975E8F-4A4A-43F7-8851-4532D77C4E07.png

12AE5BC3-B3EB-414E-B8C7-5EC533770DBE.jpeg

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Playing devil's advocate, I'd argue A-10 finals have an NCAA bid on the line while most BE teams likely are already in. That being said ratings are ratings

[RhowdyRam02]

I have a difficult time seeing UConn turn down a P5 invite.
The bigger question is will they even get one and if they do the trickle-down effect to the A10.

If the Pac 12 (soon to be 10 again, until they formally invite San Diego St., then they'll be the brand new Pac 11) stays together UConn looks a lot better to the Big 12. Outside of that they might need to wait for the ACC to fall apart to get an invite

[bigappleram]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.



72975E8F-4A4A-43F7-8851-4532D77C4E07.png

12AE5BC3-B3EB-414E-B8C7-5EC533770DBE.jpeg

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Playing devil's advocate, I'd argue A-10 finals have an NCAA bid on the line while most BE teams likely are already in. That being said ratings are ratings

There is nothing to read into the A10 ratings boon for its championship game. Nothing to do with a bid on the line. It airs on CBS on the day of Selection Sunday with no other real competition for cbb eyeballs. It’s the single best achievement of the A10 commish as it’s one of the best placements for a conf title game of any league. It’s punching above our weight. Kudos to McGlade.

[bigappleram]

I have a difficult time seeing UConn turn down a P5 invite.
The bigger question is will they even get one and if they do the trickle-down effect to the A10.

If the Liv golf situation taught anyone anything it's that any romanticized view of sport, legacy, tradition is dead in the water. Whether in the pros or in college. Local rivalries yada yada yada. They mean nothing to the conference and media power brokers making these decisions. Cash rules.

And I agree 77 I don't see how Uconn (if invited) could turn down 30-40MM in guaranteed annual money for 5-6MM. Especially given their current situation indebted to Ollie and bleeding money as a department. Dan won't love it. Their basketball diehards won't love it.
But if they are invited they are gone.

It's like Chris Rock said, America has only 1 god. The ATM.

[RF1]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.



72975E8F-4A4A-43F7-8851-4532D77C4E07.png

12AE5BC3-B3EB-414E-B8C7-5EC533770DBE.jpeg

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Playing devil's advocate, I'd argue A-10 finals have an NCAA bid on the line while most BE teams likely are already in. That being said ratings are ratings

The A-10 Tournament Championship regularly getting better ratings than the BE is likely due to the network and date/time. The A-10 is on the main CBS network on Sunday at 1pm with little other competition while the BE championship is on the main Fox network at 6:30pm on Saturday with many high profile games at the same time.

[RAMFAN]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.



72975E8F-4A4A-43F7-8851-4532D77C4E07.png

12AE5BC3-B3EB-414E-B8C7-5EC533770DBE.jpeg

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Playing devil's advocate, I'd argue A-10 finals have an NCAA bid on the line while most BE teams likely are already in. That being said ratings are ratings

There is nothing to read into the A10 ratings boon for its championship game. Nothing to do with a bid on the line. It airs on CBS on the day of Selection Sunday with no other real competition for cbb eyeballs. It’s the single best achievement of the A10 commish as it’s one of the best placements for a conf title game of any league. It’s punching above our weight. Kudos to McGlade.

Good point, forgot about the lack of competition on selection Sunday. How are the ratings for the A-10 tournament other than the championship game?

[rjsuperfly66]

Money off the table? I leave anyway. Better teams, better visibility, better seeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying the BE is a bad conference. The only conferences I'd leave for are B12 and B1G.

And that's where I'll disagree with you - intangibles. Playing several conference game within close driving distance, a conference tournament a short drive away, natural rivalries with many teams, etc. I think there is way more value in that than just being in a stronger, deeper conference. Obviously if it were a 1-2 bid conference, yes you have to make considerations for tournament opportunities. BE affords plenty of opportunity to make tournament, get strong seed, etc. Maybe not as easy, but it's there. The other stuff I think is equally important. Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.

Big Monday, Super Tuesday, and other days of the week, turn on ESPN and there is likely a B12 game on. I watched a lot of them over the past several seasons. I strongly disagree with your statement on BE having the best tv visibility.

Games on ESPN/ESPN2 have more visibility. Not all B12 teams are Kansas getting all their games there. Just looked at Iowa St. They had 10 games streaming-only. Texas Tech 13 games streaming-only. TCU 14 games streaming-only. PC played 32 games last year (reg season). 16 were on FS1, 5 on Fox, 4 on FS2, 3 on CBS Sports Net, 2 on ESPN U, 1 on ESPN News, and their game at TCU on ESPN+. I'll take PCs network exposure over any of those B12 teams.

[Rhody72]

There are hard feelings in the ACC toward UCONN for having once sued them. If UCONN moves, it will most likely be to the B12.

[RhodyKyle]

And that's where I'll disagree with you - intangibles. Playing several conference game within close driving distance, a conference tournament a short drive away, natural rivalries with many teams, etc. I think there is way more value in that than just being in a stronger, deeper conference. Obviously if it were a 1-2 bid conference, yes you have to make considerations for tournament opportunities. BE affords plenty of opportunity to make tournament, get strong seed, etc. Maybe not as easy, but it's there. The other stuff I think is equally important. Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.

Big Monday, Super Tuesday, and other days of the week, turn on ESPN and there is likely a B12 game on. I watched a lot of them over the past several seasons. I strongly disagree with your statement on BE having the best tv visibility.

Games on ESPN/ESPN2 have more visibility. Not all B12 teams are Kansas getting all their games there. Just looked at Iowa St. They had 10 games streaming-only. Texas Tech 13 games streaming-only. TCU 14 games streaming-only. PC played 32 games last year (reg season). 16 were on FS1, 5 on Fox, 4 on FS2, 3 on CBS Sports Net, 2 on ESPN U, 1 on ESPN News, and their game at TCU on ESPN+. I'll take PCs network exposure over any of those B12 teams.

You mean during non-con when they played teams like NC A&T and no casual fans watch college basketball? How many conference games were streaming only? 1, maybe 2?

[rjsuperfly66]

Big Monday, Super Tuesday, and other days of the week, turn on ESPN and there is likely a B12 game on. I watched a lot of them over the past several seasons. I strongly disagree with your statement on BE having the best tv visibility.

Games on ESPN/ESPN2 have more visibility. Not all B12 teams are Kansas getting all their games there. Just looked at Iowa St. They had 10 games streaming-only. Texas Tech 13 games streaming-only. TCU 14 games streaming-only. PC played 32 games last year (reg season). 16 were on FS1, 5 on Fox, 4 on FS2, 3 on CBS Sports Net, 2 on ESPN U, 1 on ESPN News, and their game at TCU on ESPN+. I'll take PCs network exposure over any of those B12 teams.

You mean during non-con when they played teams like NC A&T and no casual fans watch college basketball? How many conference games were streaming only? 1, maybe 2?

TCU had 5 games on ESPN+. Texas Tech 4.

Kansas St had 17 games on streaming service. 6 conference games.

[RhodyKyle]

Games on ESPN/ESPN2 have more visibility. Not all B12 teams are Kansas getting all their games there. Just looked at Iowa St. They had 10 games streaming-only. Texas Tech 13 games streaming-only. TCU 14 games streaming-only. PC played 32 games last year (reg season). 16 were on FS1, 5 on Fox, 4 on FS2, 3 on CBS Sports Net, 2 on ESPN U, 1 on ESPN News, and their game at TCU on ESPN+. I'll take PCs network exposure over any of those B12 teams.

You mean during non-con when they played teams like NC A&T and no casual fans watch college basketball? How many conference games were streaming only? 1, maybe 2?

TCU had 5 games on ESPN+. Texas Tech 4.

Kansas St had 17 games on streaming service. 6 conference games.

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

[rjsuperfly66]

You mean during non-con when they played teams like NC A&T and no casual fans watch college basketball? How many conference games were streaming only? 1, maybe 2?

TCU had 5 games on ESPN+. Texas Tech 4.

Kansas St had 17 games on streaming service. 6 conference games.

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

[RhodyKyle]

TCU had 5 games on ESPN+. Texas Tech 4.

Kansas St had 17 games on streaming service. 6 conference games.

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

Money not an issue and MWC membership stays as is (yes BYU is out so will factor that in, but SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St, Colorado St all stay)? Yes I want URI to leave. I don't care about conference rivalries. I don't consider Davidson, GW, Fordham, Duquesne et al to be rivals. URI's only rival is a nonconference team anyway. The sole goal is the NCAA tournament and I want URI in a conference that gives it the best chance for a berth.

[Jersey77]

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

Money not an issue and MWC membership stays as is (yes BYU is out so will factor that in, but SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St, Colorado St all stay)? Yes I want URI to leave. I don't care about conference rivalries. I don't consider Davidson, GW, Fordham, Duquesne et al to be rivals. URI's only rival is a nonconference team anyway. The sole goal is the NCAA tournament and I want URI in a conference that gives it the best chance for a berth.

Currently the best chance for us getting an NCAAT bid is joining the Patriot League or NEC and getting an AQ.
Just kidding of course.

[Jersey77]

TCU had 5 games on ESPN+. Texas Tech 4.

Kansas St had 17 games on streaming service. 6 conference games.

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

Money will always be the main motivating factor, especially when there is that many $ on the table.

[ramster]

Looking at top-4 seeds (using the upcoming conference teams not the conference teams at the time of the tournament)
2023 Tournament - Kansas and Houston were 1 seeds, Baylor and KSU were 3 seeds. For the BE, Marquette was a 2 seed, Xavier a 3 seed, and UConn a 4 seed
Total Teams in Field - B12-7 BE-5
Advantage B12

2022 Tournament - Kansas and Baylor were 1 seeds, Texas Tech was a 3 seed. For the BE Nova was a 2 seed, and PC was a 4 seed.
Total Teams in Field - B12-6 BE-6
Advantage B12 (based on seeding)

2021 Tournament - Baylor was a 1 seed, Houston a 2 seed, WVU and Kansas were 3 seeds, Ok State was a 4 seed. For the BE no teams in the top 4 seeds.
Total Teams in Field - B12-8 BE-3
Advantage B12

Big 12 is objectively a better basketball conference and would lead to a better opportunity for Hurley and the Huskies to end up at the top of the bracket every season.

Kyle,
I think you created a good way to look at the conference strength as it considers the power Top 16 Teams in the Country as determined by the NCAA Seeding Committee. Includes NET and all the other criteria the NCAA weighs. An imagine if you remove UCONN from the BE and put them in the B12. BE does not get a new team to replace UCONN that would fit into a Top 16 in the Country seeding.
I put your info by year in colors so I could best understand it for me. Kansas and Baylor the only Teams that were in the Top 4 Seeds for the past 3 years.


B12 - Blue, BE - Red
2023
1-Kansas
1-Houston
2-Marquette
3-Baylor
3-Kansas State
3-Xavier
4-UCONN

2022
1-Kansas
1-Baylor
2-Villanova
3-Texas Tech
4-PC

2021
1-Baylor
2-Houston
3-Kansas
3-West Virginia
4-Oklahoma State

[ramster]

https://painttouches.com/2023/03/15/put ... -big-east/


Viewership for the Championship Game of the A10 Tournament exceeded BE this year and exceeded BE on average for the past 6 years.



72975E8F-4A4A-43F7-8851-4532D77C4E07.png

12AE5BC3-B3EB-414E-B8C7-5EC533770DBE.jpeg

That's interesting, I didn't know that. Playing devil's advocate, I'd argue A-10 finals have an NCAA bid on the line while most BE teams likely are already in. That being said ratings are ratings

The A-10 Tournament Championship regularly getting better ratings than the BE is likely due to the network and date/time. The A-10 is on the main CBS network on Sunday at 1pm with little other competition while the BE championship is on the main Fox network at 6:30pm on Saturday with many high profile games at the same time.

Also, better visibility? No conference offers better basketball visibility than the BE, at least in terms of tv visibility.
[/quote]

My reason to search for data was to consider the statement that the BE offers the best TV visibility of any conference. I was not trying to compare the BE to the A10.

So looking at Conference Championship Games the BE came in 9 th last year, and BE has been 9th for the Past 6 years based on average.
Concerning for BE should be the 15.8% drop this year as compared to the 6 year average. Not good for TV package negotiating.

A10 was 8th this year and 8th got past 6 year average. Was up 5.5% this year compared to 6 year average.

Big 10 Championship game 3.2 million as compared to BE .98 million

Never would have thought BE would be that low before looking at the numbers.

[rjsuperfly66]

BE have always lagged peers there, the biggest reason for the drop this year was programs in the championship game (Marquette v Xavier) and quality of game (MQ cleaned their clocks). Im not big on one-off comparisons, that would be like believing people were most interested in Creighton v DePaul this year because it had the highest ratings of any regular season college game (it did, but only because it aired on Christmas and piggy-backed an NFL game).

[rjsuperfly66]

So a handful of conference games in a year where ESPN launched the B12 Now initiative so they loaded up the inventory. Let's see if it's as many going forward. I will also concede the point to you that the BE teams had all games on TV like on FS2 and as part of the CBS Sports triple-header including CUSA and MWC games.

Also, the single most-watched CBB show is Gameday on ESPN and which conference do they showcase more, B12 or BE? The "World Wide Leader" heavily favors the B12 because they have the contract with that conference. Shady? Sure is, but doesn't change the fact that ESPN's show gets the most eyes and those eyes get B12 and B1G highlights jammed into them for an hour every Saturday.

And my final point on the conference being overall better than the BE (all based on KenPom conference rankings going back to the BE realignment):
2023: B12 #1 and BE #3
2022: B12 #1 and BE #4
2021: B12 #2 and BE #6
2020: B12 #2 and BE #3
2019: B12 #1 and BE #5
2018: B12 #1 and BE #3
2017: B12 #1 and BE #3
2016: B12 #1 and BE #3
2015: B12 #1 and BE #2
2014: B12 #1 and BE #5

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

Money not an issue and MWC membership stays as is (yes BYU is out so will factor that in, but SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St, Colorado St all stay)? Yes I want URI to leave. I don't care about conference rivalries. I don't consider Davidson, GW, Fordham, Duquesne et al to be rivals. URI's only rival is a nonconference team anyway. The sole goal is the NCAA tournament and I want URI in a conference that gives it the best chance for a berth.

We'll agree to disagree, but I'll give it to you that you are at least consistent. I don't know why you'd want URI to fly to San Diego or Idaho just because the conference is slightly better, but it's certainly your perogative.

[RhodyKyle]

Kyle,

I never said the B12 was not the superior basketball conference, because I agree it is.

My point has been solely on the intangibles. I think a school in the northeast, with relationships in the northeast, already in a quality conference in the northeast, their optimal situation is remaining in the northeast if football/money did not matter. It obviously does, so our whole conversation is a big hypothetical.

Here's an example - The Mountain West remains slightly above the A10 in bids for the next few year. Quality of team is better. They want northeast expansion and they want URI. They has been no other expansion, the A10 is the same. Do you go?

Money not an issue and MWC membership stays as is (yes BYU is out so will factor that in, but SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St, Colorado St all stay)? Yes I want URI to leave. I don't care about conference rivalries. I don't consider Davidson, GW, Fordham, Duquesne et al to be rivals. URI's only rival is a nonconference team anyway. The sole goal is the NCAA tournament and I want URI in a conference that gives it the best chance for a berth.

We'll agree to disagree, but I'll give it to you that you are at least consistent. I don't know why you'd want URI to fly to San Diego or Idaho just because the conference is slightly better, but it's certainly your perogative.

It was an execise in a vacuum that eliminated variables like net cost to URI for increased travel compared to any increase in media revenue. In the end, with it everything factored in, it may not make much sense to change conferences.

And I really do appreciate the back and forth with you here. You truly are a positive member of this forum.

[RhodyKyle]

Looking at top-4 seeds (using the upcoming conference teams not the conference teams at the time of the tournament)
2023 Tournament - Kansas and Houston were 1 seeds, Baylor and KSU were 3 seeds. For the BE, Marquette was a 2 seed, Xavier a 3 seed, and UConn a 4 seed
Total Teams in Field - B12-7 BE-5
Advantage B12

2022 Tournament - Kansas and Baylor were 1 seeds, Texas Tech was a 3 seed. For the BE Nova was a 2 seed, and PC was a 4 seed.
Total Teams in Field - B12-6 BE-6
Advantage B12 (based on seeding)

2021 Tournament - Baylor was a 1 seed, Houston a 2 seed, WVU and Kansas were 3 seeds, Ok State was a 4 seed. For the BE no teams in the top 4 seeds.
Total Teams in Field - B12-8 BE-3
Advantage B12

Big 12 is objectively a better basketball conference and would lead to a better opportunity for Hurley and the Huskies to end up at the top of the bracket every season.

Kyle,
I think you created a good way to look at the conference strength as it considers the power Top 16 Teams in the Country as determined by the NCAA Seeding Committee. Includes NET and all the other criteria the NCAA weighs. An imagine if you remove UCONN from the BE and put them in the B12. BE does not get a new team to replace UCONN that would fit into a Top 16 in the Country seeding.
I put your info by year in colors so I could best understand it for me. Kansas and Baylor the only Teams that were in the Top 4 Seeds for the past 3 years.


B12 - Blue, BE - Red
2023
1-Kansas
1-Houston
2-Marquette
3-Baylor
3-Kansas State
3-Xavier
4-UCONN

2022
1-Kansas
1-Baylor
2-Villanova
3-Texas Tech
4-PC

2021
1-Baylor
2-Houston
3-Kansas
3-West Virginia
4-Oklahoma State

That's what makes Kansas a blue blood. Looking back at the seeding, that's why I said the top of the B12 is much better than the top of the BE. Top of the B12 is consistent among KU, Baylor, and about to be Houston.

[rjsuperfly66]

Money not an issue and MWC membership stays as is (yes BYU is out so will factor that in, but SDSU, UNLV, Nevada, Boise St, Colorado St all stay)? Yes I want URI to leave. I don't care about conference rivalries. I don't consider Davidson, GW, Fordham, Duquesne et al to be rivals. URI's only rival is a nonconference team anyway. The sole goal is the NCAA tournament and I want URI in a conference that gives it the best chance for a berth.

We'll agree to disagree, but I'll give it to you that you are at least consistent. I don't know why you'd want URI to fly to San Diego or Idaho just because the conference is slightly better, but it's certainly your perogative.

It was an execise in a vacuum that eliminated variables like net cost to URI for increased travel compared to any increase in media revenue. In the end, with it everything factored in, it may not make much sense to change conferences.

And I really do appreciate the back and forth with you here. You truly are a positive member of this forum.

My fault,I was only not accounting for TV money that would impact, not other streams of revenue or expenses. I agree with your end result!

[Jdrums#3]

ESPN is reporting on their TV scroll that SDSU is leaving the MWC however, SDSU does not have a P5 conf invitation yet - as far as ESPN knows at this time.

The likely landing spot, imho, is the PAC 12. We shall see.

[adam914]

It's definitely the Pac-12, they just can't announce it yet and asked for an extension from the MWC. Should be interesting to see if the MWC grants the extension or not. Could get a little ugly.

[ramster]

San Diego State now telling Mountain West they are staying, at least for now.

[Jdrums#3]

Hmmmm…that’s interesting, Ramster. I figured they were gone.

I wonder if they are waiting to find out what the PAC 12 media deal will be? Maybe the PAC 12 is dragging their feet on adding schools? Maybe a Big 12 invite is a possibility?

[reef]

Very surprised to hear about the Aztecs staying in the Mountain West

[ramster]

Getting ugly between SDSU and the Mountain West

And likely to get more ugly as MWC takes a tough stand

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mountain-w ... 14538.html

[Jersey77]

Getting ugly between SDSU and the Mountain West

And likely to get more ugly as MWC takes a tough stand

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mountain-w ... 14538.html

Ramster, looks like SDSU may have jumped the gun, and now want a mulligan.
Still may work out for them down the road at some point in the P5.

[ramster]

Getting ugly between SDSU and the Mountain West

And likely to get more ugly as MWC takes a tough stand

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mountain-w ... 14538.html

Ramster, looks like SDSU may have jumped the gun, and now want a mulligan.
Still may work out for them down the road at some point in the P5.

I'm sure SDSU will end up in Big 12 or PAC 12.

But this is an ugly situation right now. Poorly handled.

[RF1]

I had initially thought that San Diego State was being smart and had a well thought out and planned strategy. That however does not now look like the case.

[reef]

Wow surprised SDSU wanted to stay in the MWC

[Obadiah]

This decision by SDSU is not a reflection of a poor strategy since it is primarily a temporal because of complications involved. The key is the PAC-12 is taking their sweet time in coming up on a media deal which is now expected by late July.This deal is very critical to future of the PAC-12 because if it is neither substantive or attractive, the expectation is that the Big 12 will swoop in to poach some of their teams, namely Arizona schools, Colorado and Utah. So SDSU is waiting to see what happens before committing to a new conference. The problem is that the delay probably causes their MWC exit fee to escalate.

[ramster]

This decision by SDSU is not a reflection of a poor strategy since it is primarily a temporal because of complications involved. The key is the PAC-12 is taking their sweet time in coming up on a media deal which is now expected by late July.This deal is very critical to future of the PAC-12 because if it is neither substantive or attractive, the expectation is that the Big 12 will swoop in to poach some of their teams, namely Arizona schools, Colorado and Utah. So SDSU is waiting to see what happens before committing to a new conference. The problem is that the delay probably causes their MWC exit fee to escalate.

Do you think San Diego State ends up in the Big 12?

[Obadiah]

The new Big 12 6- year media deal with Fox and ESPN negotiated late last year gives each member school an annual payout of $31.7 million. The current PAC-12 deal awards $31 million. Not a big difference. I say they go with the PAC 12 unless the new PAC-12 media deal is less attractive given the departure of UCLA/USC. An unattractive deal also likely means Washington and Oregon would be lured to the Big 10 and the PAC 12 would collapse. In that scenario,n SDSU would end up in the Big 12.

[jcru]

San Diego St is bouncing. They just don't want to pay $17 Million to bounce.

Mountain West doesn't want to hear it, they aren't running a charity, they want their money.

[Obadiah]

As I mentioned earlier, if San Diego State had met the July 1 deadline on leaving the MWC, the exit fee would have been $17 million. Leaving for the PAC-12 anytime after July 1 increases the exit fee to $34 million.

[Bartoburger]

One situation SDSU does not want to be in is there is massive exit of many current PAC-12 schools and they are left with 2 or 4 schools then the Mountain West absorbs the rest of the schools. This would create a very awkward situation for the Aztecs admin who were pushing for them to leave the MW. I would think at that point the MW conf. would take the PAC-12 name.

[ramster]

San Diego State is 19th in Rothstein Preseason Top 45

SDSU is in an excellent position to move up to P5.

They play football in 35,000 seat capacity Snapdragon Stadium

Could be shooting for Big 12 if not PAC 12 - go to the highest bidder?


19. San Diego State
Projected Starting 5:
G Lamont Butler
G Darrion Trammell
G Reese Dixon-Waters
G Micah Parrish
C Jaedon LeDee
Projected Bench: Cade Alger, Demarshay Johnson, Miles Heide, BJ Davis, Miles Byrd, Elijah Saunders, Jay Pal
Key Newcomers: Miles Heide, BJ Davis, Reese Dixon-Waters (USC), Jay Pal (Campbell)
Key Losses: Aguek Arop, Nathan Mensah, Matt Bradley, Keshad Johnson

[Obadiah]

One situation SDSU does not want to be in is there is massive exit of many current PAC-12 schools and they are left with 2 or 4 schools then the Mountain West absorbs the rest of the schools. This would create a very awkward situation for the Aztecs admin who were pushing for them to leave the MW. I would think at that point the MW conf. would take the PAC-12 name.

And this is exactly why the most important factor in determining the future of the PAC-12 is their impending media deal. That deal was supposed to be finalized by July 1, but that is now been postponed to July 21. The delay itself shows that the negotiations are not going smoothly. Stay tuned on this one because the outcome could have significant repercussions that will have trickle down effects.

[RF1]

One situation SDSU does not want to be in is there is massive exit of many current PAC-12 schools and they are left with 2 or 4 schools then the Mountain West absorbs the rest of the schools. This would create a very awkward situation for the Aztecs admin who were pushing for them to leave the MW. I would think at that point the MW conf. would take the PAC-12 name.

And this is exactly why the most important factor in determining the future of the PAC-12 is their impending media deal. That deal was supposed to be finalized by July 1, but that is now been postponed to July 21. The delay itself shows that the negotiations are not going smoothly. Stay tuned on this one because the outcome could have significant repercussions that will have trickle down effects.

The PAC-12 is probably finding out that, without UCLA and USC as members, their media rights are not worth what was hoped for.

[ramster]

Not so fast SDSU


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/big-12-not ... 35465.html

[Obadiah]

Interesting perspective in the article, but its last sentence is puzzling: The Aztecs’ best chance is still the Pac-12 but right now that league is not in a rush to add teams or even get its media rights deal done. I agree that the PAC-12 is the best bet for SDSU, but make no mistake the PAC-12 media deal is a huge item for them; an almost make or break situation, They must come up with a package that pays more than the Big 12 or else they face annihilation. To say that they are in no rush to get a deal done is ludicrous.

If you look at schools trying to break into the P5, the two best positioned are SDSU and UConn. Given the uncertainty of what happens next in the realignment game, a bigger goal for UConn would be to get into the Big Ten.