Conference Realignment

[ramster]

College Football Board of Managers makes big move for FBS Football


ESPN
Breaking: The CFP Board of Managers has decided on a 12-team College Football Playoff, sources told
@PeteThamel

The 12-team model is expected to start in 2026, after the current contract, according to a source.

[reef]

College Football Board of Managers makes big move for FBS Football


ESPN
Breaking: The CFP Board of Managers has decided on a 12-team College Football Playoff, sources told
@PeteThamel

The 12-team model is expected to start in 2026, after the current contract, according to a source.

I like that a lot compared to the 4 team format we have now

[Ramulous]

They are still going to fuck the other conferences by not giving all champions an automatic bid. They should go to 16 like FCS does. Autobids to conference champions and 5 or 6 at-larges. But they don’t want to share the pie. They want all of it.

[RhowdyRam02]

To me the perfect format would have been eight teams, with auto bids for each of the power 5 conferences and the top group of 5 team

[RI_Rams]

It's going to be 6 top conference champions and 6 best at-large teams.

[Rhodymob05]

Are the playoff games also part of the bowl series?

[Obadiah]

While it is fun to speculate over the major developments in FBS football, the relevant issue is how and when re-alignment affects URI basketball which eventually leads to how the Big East responds.

The major domo of basketball-centic conferences is the Big East. Like the coming P2 in FBS football, the BE does not have to worry about losing any member schools to other similar leagues (only exception may be the special case of UConn). This is not true of the A-10 and other leagues. That's the beauty of being at the top of the heap.

However, the Big East does pride itself on its basketball stature vis a vis the basketball programs of the FBS schools. The transition of the P5 into the P2 and the strengthening of their media options will present the BE with a powerful group of better financed athletics/basketball programs. The BE has been able to compete with the P5, but will the BE be able to compete with a P2 now at 28 moving to 32. If the Big10 & SEC move to a twenty team level then that combo will be able to offer up potentially 40 pairings each week in the basketball season compared to the BE's 22. It also means the B10/SEC will offer many more attractive match-ups. For example, instead of UCLA playing on a lonely Friday night in Pullman WA ignored by Eastern time zone audiences, the Bruins will now be playing Indiana in prime time.

How does the BE compete in that new world? I can't imagine standing pat and doing nothing makes a good strategy. And that is the scenario that will eventually directly affect URI basketball.

[Jdrums#3]

Ob, your post is very thought provoking.

My thinking right now is that the BE will be able to compete but it will get tougher to do so over time.

Basketball centric conferences (particularly the stronger programs in the bb centric conferences), I think, can carve out space to remain competitive for the time being. I am thinking the BE mainly and then some high mid-major conferences (A10 included). But, over time, games against the P2 programs could become more difficult to come by if those conferences expand to 20-24 teams eventually. That probably wouldn’t leave too many non-league games for the P2 teams besides an early season tourney or conference challenge series (I would expect a B10 & SEC P2 bb challenge).

The arms race will continue indefinitely and will likely intensify each time a major conf TV/media contract is due to come up for renegotiation. But, time will tell. I am just speculating based off of historic trends but limited info.

Good discussion.

[ramster]

Heck of an agreement

[ATPTourFan]

Calipari won’t even be coaching by the second half of that series.

[Jdrums#3]

Just saw this pop up on ESPN: Gonzaga in talks to join Big 12.

Interesting. No insight on seriousness of the negotiations. Don’t know what to think yet beyond interesting, at this point.

[RhodyKyle]

Just saw this pop up on ESPN: Gonzaga in talks to join Big 12.

Interesting. No insight on seriousness of the negotiations. Don’t know what to think yet beyond interesting, at this point.

Gonzaga AD met, in person, with the Big 12 Commissioner. Seems a lot more serious than any of the previous Gonzaga rumors.

[Jdrums#3]

Thanks for the info, RK.

[Jersey77]

Several outlets reporting that San Diego State and SMU are the top targets for Pac-12 expansion.
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrFABD ... iV.I9nKKA-
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b45c3826 ... Rlcw&ntb=1

[ramster]

Texas and Oklahoma to join SEC for 2024 season

PAC 12 Commissioner visited SMU.
AAC added 6 teams to get to 14. Will be interesting to see what AAC does if SMU departs.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ement/amp/

[Jdrums#3]

I wonder if the new PAC 12 and AAC will have the oomph to eventually rise to near the P5 level in football and basketball ?-Not saying equals. I give the PAC 12 a better chance if Oregon and Washington stay.

Also, because the SEC, Big10 - by raiding other P5’s - SEEM to be headed towards super conference status, can all other conferences stay in striking distance in basketball ?

Outside of the SEC and Big10, does this potentially open opportunities to move for Rhody and some other A10 schools ( that commit to playing at a higher basketball level) ? Do we see any football and basketball conferences adding basketball only schools like the Big East mixture in the past to try to compete with the SEC and Big10 in basketball ?

Adapt and overcome.

[reef]

Several outlets reporting that San Diego State and SMU are the top targets for Pac-12 expansion.
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrFABD ... iV.I9nKKA-
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b45c3826 ... Rlcw&ntb=1

I like San Diego St a lot of the PAC 12 SMU not as much

[RF1]

St Francis-NY, a D1 member of the NEC, announces that it is dropping all athletic programs. This will leave the NEC with just eight members, two of which are still transitioning to D1. The league has seen several other departures in the last decade as Monmouth, Quinnipiac, Robert Morris, Bryant, and Mt St Mary (MD) have all left.

NEC Members going forward
Central Ct St Univ
FDU
LIU
St Francis-PA
Sacred Heart
Wagner
Merrimack
Stonehill

[Jdrums#3]

I wonder if LaSalle will eventually take the St. Francis route considering their financial woes ?

[rambone 78]

The A10 is a bloated 15 member conference with too many underfunded programs with inadequate facilities

Going nowhere fast

I would love to see the top 8-10 programs break off and form a new conference and then negotiate a new TV contract somehow.

It's obvious the A10 will not dump programs, so this might be the only long term solution.

[rambone 78]

11 teams, like the BE has, would be ideal, with a 20 game conference schedule, and most of them quality games.

I know it's a pipe dream.

But hey it's at least a dream.

[theblueram]

The A10 is a bloated 15 member conference with too many underfunded programs with inadequate facilities

Going nowhere fast

I would love to see the top 8-10 programs break off and form a new conference and then negotiate a new TV contract somehow.

It's obvious the A10 will not dump programs, so this might be the only long term solution.

It's quite simple. Just get a few AD's to talk to media. And sell them on a breakout. Get the media rights secured and the contract $$$ taken care of. I think you only need 8 teams to be eligible for the NCAAT after a breakup.

[rambone 78]

Remember the Catholic 8?

It could be done imo.

[SGreenwell]

Unfortunately, when it comes to media rights, we might be headed toward a cool down or contraction at this point. A bunch of the RSNs airing baseball games just went into bankruptcy, for example, partly because they were overextended when it came to paying for live rights. ESPN has also been contracting in size for about 5+ years now, with rumors Disney wants to sell them off because they don't ever see the carriage fees (money collected from cable companies) ever recovering. Not that I think the Power A-10 Schools Conference would have moved the needle as much as the New Big East did with FS1, but the big bags of money aren't necessarily out there right now.

[Jdrums#3]

Unfortunately, when it comes to media rights, we might be headed toward a cool down or contraction at this point. A bunch of the RSNs airing baseball games just went into bankruptcy, for example, partly because they were overextended when it came to paying for live rights. ESPN has also been contracting in size for about 5+ years now, with rumors Disney wants to sell them off because they don't ever see the carriage fees (money collected from cable companies) ever recovering. Not that I think the Power A-10 Schools Conference would have moved the needle as much as the New Big East did with FS1, but the big bags of money aren't necessarily out there right now.

Interesting. Thanks, SG.

Are you thinking this will drive more realignment rumors and possibilities below the P5 level (football) and/or P6 level (for basketball) ?

My main interest, not surprisingly, is the basketball side but I understand what is happening in football impacts basketball - which is why I list both above.

[jcru]

If the A-10 one day implodes, it won't be a surprise. Dayton, VCU looking to bolt. A cluster of teams some with football programs, some not. Some catholic, some state. It really is a hodge podge of programs it's kind of amazing it has lasted this long.

[jcru]

Well, if what we are seeing with the NCAA holds for the future, the BCS football schools no longer want the basketball only schools in their P5 conferences. They want to build a new hierarchy. So, teams like PC will eventually be displaced anyway. It may not happen in the next 5 or even 10 years, but it will happen. Villanova will be forced to fund their football team to meet that level or will go the same way too.

[SGreenwell]

Unfortunately, when it comes to media rights, we might be headed toward a cool down or contraction at this point. A bunch of the RSNs airing baseball games just went into bankruptcy, for example, partly because they were overextended when it came to paying for live rights. ESPN has also been contracting in size for about 5+ years now, with rumors Disney wants to sell them off because they don't ever see the carriage fees (money collected from cable companies) ever recovering. Not that I think the Power A-10 Schools Conference would have moved the needle as much as the New Big East did with FS1, but the big bags of money aren't necessarily out there right now.

Interesting. Thanks, SG.

Are you thinking this will drive more realignment rumors and possibilities below the P5 level (football) and/or P6 level (for basketball) ?

My main interest, not surprisingly, is the basketball side but I understand what is happening in football impacts basketball - which is why I list both above.

Kind of the opposite, ha. I'm positive there will still be some jockeying of conference membership - there always has been. But in the past 20 years, this has been fueled by the incredible amount of money out there from cable companies and just the general NCAA broadcast contracts. Division I football has been the biggest driver, followed by men's college basketball (March Madness especially).

If regional sports networks (think NESN) have less money to spread around, there are less incentives for teams to switch conferences or for conferences to aggressively recruit new members. Even beyond the lump sum given to conferences, it also means there might not be production money around any more for, say, the broadcasting of small conference games. (i.e. Maybe NESN decides its not even worth it to send a small crew out to Boston University or Vermont or wherever to record those games; can't remember those small school games they used to show on non-pro sports nights.)

[Jdrums#3]

Well, if what we are seeing with the NCAA holds for the future, the BCS football schools no longer want the basketball only schools in their P5 conferences. They want to build a new hierarchy. So, teams like PC will eventually be displaced anyway. It may not happen in the next 5 or even 10 years, but it will happen. Villanova will be forced to fund their football team to meet that level or will go the same way too.

Jcru, I am not so sure that is the case that the P5 no longer want basketball only schools in their conferences. It is only speculation at this point but, as my only exhibit at this time, I submit the story from heartlandcollegesports.com I posted about a few weeks back in the Juan Bid thread and also the Realignment 2021 thread in the Other College Sports section (the story was posted to that site in February and is a good read).

In the story, the author references recent Big 12 Commish’s comments and speculates that he will look to expand the basketball side of the conference by looking to add 3-4 big market BE programs (because basketball, in the Commish’s opinion, has potential to generate much more revenue than it currently does - it’s an undervalued asset). The author further spec’s that the fact that the BE media agreement renews next year makes that the perfect time to grab BE programs with the offer of much more money from the Big 12.

I will further speculate, beyond the author of the story, that if the Big 12 Commish is thinking it, so are other P5’s as they all thirst for more money for their conferences.

I am not saying this will happen as it is just speculation currently but keep an ear to the ground for rumblings and remember…money talks.

Good discussion.

[KevanBoyles]

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-realignment-v ... tid=Zxz2cZ

This was news to me. 7 or 8 schools taking about leaving the ACC for either the SEC or Big 10.

If so, how can we benefit?

[RIFan]

not sure we can, since we don't have FBS football.

[RF1]

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-realignment-v ... tid=Zxz2cZ

This was news to me. 7 or 8 schools taking about leaving the ACC for either the SEC or Big 10.

If so, how can we benefit?

The odds are that we wouldn't benefit. Very few times in the last 30 years has conference realignment favored URI. It usually puts Rhody in a worse situation. URI used to play conference games against Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Penn State, Rutgers, Va Tech, Temple, Xavier, and Butler. The A-10 used to regularly receive multiple NCAA bids. URI is today still left in the A-10 while all those teams moved on and upward. Rhody now competes in a league that just got a single team in the NCAA Tournament last year and had a poor seed to boot.

[Rhody72]

The odds are that we wouldn't benefit. Very few times in the last 30 years has conference realignment favored URI. It usually puts Rhody in a worse situation. URI used to play conference games against Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Penn State, Rutgers, Va Tech, Temple, Xavier, and Butler. The A-10 used to regularly receive multiple NCAA bids. URI is today still left in the A-10 while all those teams moved on and upward. Rhody now competes in a league that just got a single team in the NCAA Tournament last year and had a poor seed to boot.

You are spot on. If you are not moving ahead, then you are going backwards. We are always aiming to catch up rather than move to the head of the pack while the others you named are looking to leap frog the competition.

[Rhody72]

https://swimswam.com/ncaa-realignment-v ... tid=Zxz2cZ

This was news to me. 7 or 8 schools taking about leaving the ACC for either the SEC or Big 10.

If so, how can we benefit?

The ACC is moving backwards.

[Blue Man]

I mean, it would be a blow for sure - to pretend it wouldn't would be insane. You'd have like the P2 - SEC, B1G. The 2nd tier of the Pac12/Big 12.

The ACC wouldn't exactly have any big draw football programs left. Syracuse, BC, Pitt, Maryland, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, and Duke. They still have Notre Dame for basketball though.

One obviously pie in the sky dream - would be to make a push to join the ACC for basketball. Yes. Again, before everyone talks about how crazy this idea sounds let me remind you of 2 things: 1) this is a basketball message board in the offseason and the celtics are sucking the joy from my world, this is escapism. 2) 90% of you had the same reaction when I said we were getting Archie.

Let's think about this:

The remaining basketball schools in the ACC would be (from North to South) - Syracuse, BC, Notre Dame, Pitt, Maryland, Wake Forest, Duke, Georgia Tech. That's still very solid - albeit, coaching change at Cuse (probably good), no coach K at Duke (probably bad), coaching change at ND (who knows) coaching change at GT (probably good).

Either way, those are some of the top basketball programs in the country, the ACC has always been a basketball conference, and this represents a unique opportunity to expand the ACC's basketball only grouping with a couple of teams.

Theoretically - with a financial commitment from the ACC - you could make a push to bump up Richmond from FCS and upgrade their facilities to give you 9 teams. Maybe the ACC can wrestle a team of two from the AAC for football/basketball - like FAU.

I don't think UMass gives any football advantage to the ACC - they suck, they have no fans, and BC is right here.

But either way - this is a dangerous time for the A10 because the basketball add that would make the most sense geographically would be VCU. You also would have a built in rivalry for VCU/Richmond, and it would replace the geographical losses of VA/VAtech.

If the ACC really wanted to grab new basketball only dance partners - the A10 is the logical place to look after that. Dayton/St Louis would be obvious next options. But is there a chance with Archie and our facilities/recent brand rise with Hurley that we could get on that list?

Either way the ACC is going down a tier losing those programs. Unless they convince Notre Dame to join the conference for football - they will have legit 0 programs with serious national championship aspirations - considering Clemson, FSU, Miami, VaTech were their football horses. They'll still have football, and fan bases. But they'll be outside of the new P2/P3 whatever it will be.

Regardless, as a basketball only conference that ACC is still a top 6 conference in the country. I'm going to hold onto this dream for like a week that we could be in there.

Then cry when reality sets in.

[Jdrums#3]

Nice! Seeking solutions versus sitting around and lamenting. I like the out of the box thinking - especially since it is quiet around these parts.

[rhodyrudder]

So Duke, Maryland, and a lot of the schools who might end up on the wrong side of the Big 10-SEC super league combo have endowments and alumni bases that can afford NBA-level ticket prices. Some of the Big East schools certainly do, Georgetown comes to mind. PC fans have been paying more and more over the years, but at least their deal with Fox is helping…a LOT!

Rhody and the A-10 schools, on the other hand? Not so much.
I’m wondering what’s going to happen when the choice is either to charge $500 per seat per game near the floor and $150 per seat per game in the upper deck (to try and stay in what we still call Division I), or drop to Division II.

I’m being totally serious here. Duke can obviously give players $2M per year or more if that is what it will take. PC can probably pay one or two kids a half mill, and give the others $100K or so.

But how on earth will Rhody be able to sell tickets at those prices?

The answer is obvious. The arena will be nearly empty, even if Archie starts to perform miracles with the guys he has lined up.

This new reality of college sports is not looking good for any of us in the A-10. And we are currently at the bottom of that group.

Sorry to rain on the idea of Rhody replacing UNC in the ACC (but, but, we’ve got the same colors and fight song)…

I’m just not sure what to say, I don’t see this ending well. Our road back to relevance in men’s basketball is getting longer and steeper in my opinion.

[Jdrums#3]

Good questions, RR. It is a frustrating time in college sports.

Not only are a small percentage of schools (SEC & Big 10 connected) outpacing most others from a relevancy and financial standpoint but the college sport of football itself seems to be widening the gap on all other sports on the P5 level even faster than in the past, imho.

Maybe football will become so dominant that it will evolve to a system of its own somehow and thus leaving other sports behind to a more traditional like system with common sense regulations, manageable NIL, a more diverse group of programs that can play for an opportunity at a natty.

College Basketball is still popular (though obviously less popular than football) and generates a great deal of excitement nationally but in a different way from football. Hopefully, the powers that be will recognize that a more open and competitive environment for basketball has value and it is a disservice to the sport to pigeonhole it into the same box as football.

Right now, the only path I see at this point in time for Rhody’s D1 basketball survival (and other programs in a similar situation) is to position itself with a basketball centric conf with the hopes that college basketball does not walk the path of college football. ETA: Or, maybe a football conf ( non P5 football level) that values cbb and sees value in adding basketball centric programs and run basketball as a revenue source separate from football altogether?

There are still many basketball purists around and smart administrators out and about so I am hoping for the best that a cbb system can be salvaged where Rhody can continue to compete for NCAAT births and make a periodic run.

[ElmCityRhody]

just making sure everyone is still not offended

anyway we can kick them out ?

my goodness this USA is so soft these days

https://nypost.com/2023/05/25/george-wa ... -backlash/

[KevanBoyles]

"Revs" for short???

[KevanBoyles]

Insurrectionists?

[ElmCityRhody]

why don't they also change the name "George Washington"

he was a slave owner

i am personally insulted and think they should leave the conference

my goodness - what a bunch of loons

[ramster]

Insurrectionists?

The article says......

“Revolutionaries are bold, they embody creativity and passion. Revolutionaries are change-makers, they’re not content with the status quo,” Professor Monica Ruiz proudly voiced.


Not sure how a Revolutionary is different from an Insurrectionist? I'll have to go to Webster

And Revolutionist is better than a Colonial?

I used to be proud to be from one of the Original 13 Colonies.

It's all over my head.

Original 13 Colonies in order:
Following Virginia, the rest of the 13 colonies in order:
2. New York (1626)
3. Massachusetts (1630)
4. Maryland (1633)
5. Rhode Island (1636)
6. Connecticut (1636)
7. New Hampshire (1638)
8. Delaware (1638)
9. North Carolina (1653)
10. South Carolina (1663)
11. New Jersey (1664)
12. Pennsylvania (1682)
13. Georgia (1732)

[Jersey77]

just making sure everyone is still not offended

anyway we can kick them out ?

my goodness this USA is so soft these days

https://nypost.com/2023/05/25/george-wa ... -backlash/

Why are you taking issue with it?

I think George Washington would rather be remembered as a revolutionary hero and 1st US president rather than a colonist under British rule.
Since the school is named after him, why not?

[Rhody15]

just making sure everyone is still not offended

anyway we can kick them out ?

my goodness this USA is so soft these days

https://nypost.com/2023/05/25/george-wa ... -backlash/

Why are you taking issue with it?

I think George Washington would rather be remembered as a revolutionary hero and 1st US president rather than a colonist under British rule.
Since the school is named after him, why not?

Yea, I couldn't care less about what their nickname is, and don't understand why people are getting so worked up.

Who the hell cares?

[adam914]

Always makes me laugh that the same ones calling other people "soft" are the ones who do most of the whining and crying about every little thing that happens. Projection at its best!

[RhodyKyle]

Always makes me laugh that the same ones calling other people "soft" are the ones who do most of the whining and crying about every little thing that happens. Projection at its best!

It's like every accusation is an admission

[ramster]

just making sure everyone is still not offended

anyway we can kick them out ?

my goodness this USA is so soft these days

https://nypost.com/2023/05/25/george-wa ... -backlash/

Why are you taking issue with it?

I think George Washington would rather be remembered as a revolutionary hero and 1st US president rather than a colonist under British rule.
Since the school is named after him, why not?

Yea, I couldn't care less about what their nickname is, and don't understand why people are getting so worked up.

Who the hell cares?

Lots of people. That's why they changed the name.
Why should anyone care is the point.

[Jersey77]

Why are you taking issue with it?

I think George Washington would rather be remembered as a revolutionary hero and 1st US president rather than a colonist under British rule.
Since the school is named after him, why not?

Yea, I couldn't care less about what their nickname is, and don't understand why people are getting so worked up.

Who the hell cares?

Lots of people. That's why they changed the name.
Why should anyone care is the point.

Ramster, maybe he was just referring to us on KB, not those affiliated or who have ties to GWU.

[RIFan]

It was about 500 people who asked for it to be changed, hardly a lot of people when you consider how many students, faculty and alumni they have. But that is the world we live in with social media, everything gets amplified. BTW, I also don’t care what they call themselves, I just find the phenomenon of how social media and a small minority can now make a huge impact on things very interesting.