2023 Coaching Carousel

[jcru]

And then they completely switched gears and did the opposite from that point on.

[jcru]

For some reason or another, elevating a URI assistant to the head coaching position has not worked out well in the last five decades. Only one of four such scenarios worked out well. The other three were all fired.

Claude English
Al Skinner (NIT/NCAA)
Jerry Degregorio
David Cox

Al Skinner was the one guy who worked out, and if not for those last two years, some might have argued he didn't. Even with the Abdul Fox year in the middle.

Al Skinner worked out, because he's a unicorn. It's never going to happen again.

[Jersey77]

I will admit, that we got the stuff we needed in the end. We got the practice facility, we got the money for top assistants, we got charter flights, etc. We got Archie in the end. That is huge.

I just dread what is going to take place when Archie get's us back to a pair of NCAA's like Hurley did and possibly leaves and we have to make this decision again. Apparently, jersey is going to be rooting for the Jersey guy, of the NYC guy, or Philly guy, or the D.C. guy, or the Maryland guy, that he keeps tabs on that just happens to be on our staff at the time, because "he paid his dues" and deserves it, and the players are going to leave.

At least we have that going on now. The players are going to leave? In this NEW NCAA, the players are going to leave every year, and whenever they want, and when you least expect it. so players leaving, shouldn't be an issue, to deciding a new coach.

Yeah, Xavier got lucky one time. Great. VCU is in the A-10 currently, and get's lucky every time. It's almost like its not even luck, because they have a plan.

I trust Thorr and root for whoever he feels is best for the program, regardless of where they are from.
Besides I spent most of my life in the Midwest.

[Jersey77]

And then they completely switched gears and did the opposite from that point on.

VCU hires who they think is the best candidate, whether from within or outside.
Odom has been on their radar for awhile.

[jcru]

I think Thorr has had mixed results. Mostly good. When he makes bold, inspiring moves, he's good. When he fund raises for things most people gave up on, or didn't think could ever come to fruition, he's really good. The Hurley, Archie, and Tammi hires were excellent. The Fleming hire has lately started to pay big dividends after a slow beginning, on a team that could afford a slow beginning.

The David Cox hire was awful. It was uninspiring, it was cheap, it used faulty logic, and felt like we were being manipulated because the players were being used as leverage by the very man seeking the job.

[bigappleram]

I think Thorr has had mixed results. Mostly good. When he makes bold, inspiring moves, he's good. When he fund raises for things most people gave up on, or didn't think could ever come to fruition, he's really good. The Hurley, Archie, and Tammi hires were excellent. The Fleming hire has lately started to pay big dividends after a slow beginning, on a team that could afford a slow beginning.

The David Cox hire was awful. It was uninspiring, it was cheap, it used faulty logic, and felt like we were being manipulated because the players were being used as leverage by the very man seeking the job.

He's absolutely nailed 4 of the 5 hires (Fleming, Dan, Tammi, Archie) listed and that's mixed results? I'd say that's pretty dam good. And Thorr wasn't necessarily the reason Cox was chosen. There are other stakeholders that have a voice too.

[jcru]

well, I didn't say how mixed. This is kind of like the army, one f@ck up can erase a thousand atta-boys.

[jcru]

There are other stakeholders that have a voice too.

Oh, I'm sure. I don't doubt that.

[Billyboy78]

For some reason or another, elevating a URI assistant to the head coaching position has not worked out well in the last five decades. Only one of four such scenarios worked out well. The other three were all fired.

Claude English
Al Skinner (NIT/NCAA)
Jerry Degregorio
David Cox

URI has only once hired an assistant coach from another school in the last 50 odd years - Brendan Malone from Syracuse. He departed on his own accord for an NBA assistant job (NY Knicks) after two losing seasons.

URI has had much better success in hiring men that had already been D1 college head coaches in recent decades. All five of these coaches that were at URI multiple years reached either the NCAA or NIT (or both) with all but Kraft winning postseason games.

Jack Kraft (NCAA/NIT)
Tom Penders (NIT/NCAA)
Jim Harrick (NCAA)
Jim Baron (NIT)
Dan Hurley (NIT/NCAA)
Archie Miller (tbd)


In my view, URI has not had the necessary institutional support in place for an inexperienced coach to succeed. Coaches have more or less been left on their own with a sink or swim philosophy.

Do you know that Claude English was named coach of the year in his first year after taking over for Jack Kraft, who had to leave after 1 game? We went 21-8 that year. Unfortunately, the following year we went 10-17, despite still having all-time great Pappy Owens and Marc Upshaw. The 2 season after that we went 9-19 and 6-22. That was it for Claude.Brendon Malone was next and didn't do much better for the next 2 years. That's when we got Penders.

[giovanni]

[Jersey77]

As expected, wonder who Willard goes after.

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

I'm referring to the "paid his dues" comment. The specific insinuation was that Hurley felt Cox "paid his dues".

He didn't. First of all, we had no idea what kind of coach Cox was going to be. I think we assumed because he was with Hurley for 4-5 years that he was going to continue his style of play. That did NOT happen.

He was nothing like Hurley. Hurley had those run til you puke practices from day one. All discipline all the time. 24/7/365. That was not Cox's style at all. Cox's style could almost be summed up from those haphazard warmup sessions before the games. Everyone showing up and doing their own thing, like they just met in the parking lot. When Toppin tells the guys at Kentucky all of the ills to that team, there was probably some legs to it. I just didn't like him taking the liberty of telling them that on such a public forum.

You could go on and on. The point is, we wasted 4 years treading water. For no reason. VCU has it right, and that's why they stay on top.

Some assistants without previous HC do well, some don't.
Same with coaches that had previous HC experience.
We all know DC failed here, move on.

You keep bringing up VCU and as I previously mentioned they hired Shaka without any HC experience, and it worked out for them.

Get over it.

JCRU likes to look in the rearview mirror and say "I told you so." There is no exact science and formula to hiring a coach...

Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Greg Gard...all moved from assistants to head coach at the same program. Worked out great.
David Cox, Gordie Chiesa, Aaron McKie...didn't work out so great.
Tom Izzo...check out his record after 2 seasons, when he took over for Jud Heathcote.

Assistants have to get their first head coaching job at some point. There is no way to forecast the future.

[rambone 78]

I was one who wanted Cox to get the job. After his first year here though things changed a bit. By the end of his 2nd year, it was clear he wasn't the right hire at least imo

[jcru]

The rearview mirror isn't my point, though.

My point is about letting it happen again in the future.

Assistants don't need to be doing OJT at Rhody, ever.

And all of those examples, are fading, as time marches on, and the game is evolving. NCAA free agency isn't going away. Some people long for the past, it's time to start worrying about the future.

All those guys like Hutch, who you thought you were going to get to "watch grow". That ain't happening anymore. Hutch left, just like they are all going to leave, eventually, unless coming here used up their one transfer.

[RI_Bred]

Do you think almost every player will transfer at least once in his career moving forward? I mean it's somewhat feasible...

[jcru]

Probably. There may be a couple who don't but the vast majority most likely will. The players who stay here for 2-3 years will end up being the transfers.

[jcru]

And then if they graduate, they can foreseeably transfer again.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Do you know that Claude English was named coach of the year in his first year after taking over for Jack Kraft, who had to leave after 1 game? We went 21-8 that year. Unfortunately, the following year we went 10-17, despite still having all-time great Pappy Owens and Marc Upshaw. The 2 season after that we went 9-19 and 6-22. That was it for Claude.Brendon Malone was next and didn't do much better for the next 2 years. That's when we got Penders.

Claude might have had half a chance but the administration gave him no support, starting with his bargain-basement assistants, one of whom -- a nice enough guy named Charlie McGrath -- had been selling suits at Donnelly's in Wakefield Mall when Claude hired him. IIRC, the Talent Development Program stopped taking basketball players (Pappy Owens and some others were in the TDP).

[hrstrat57]

Donnelly’s

Waaaay back machine! Well played RIR!

[ramster]

Do you know that Claude English was named coach of the year in his first year after taking over for Jack Kraft, who had to leave after 1 game? We went 21-8 that year. Unfortunately, the following year we went 10-17, despite still having all-time great Pappy Owens and Marc Upshaw. The 2 season after that we went 9-19 and 6-22. That was it for Claude.Brendon Malone was next and didn't do much better for the next 2 years. That's when we got Penders.

Claude might have had half a chance but the administration gave him no support, starting with his bargain-basement assistants, one of whom -- a nice enough guy named Charlie McGrath -- had been selling suits at Donnelly's in Wakefield Mall when Claude hired him. IIRC, the Talent Development Program stopped taking basketball players (Pappy Owens and some others were in the TDP).

Was Claude in Donnelly's buying a suite?
Stop at Iggy's to discuss the job opening?

[reef]

As expected, wonder who Willard goes after.

No idea what to expect with this hire , I guess time will tell

[Jdrums#3]

Good for VCU.

Another excellent example of adapting and overcoming - when they beat their ass, hopefully.

[Jdrums#3]

Agreed. And that's why they stay at the top. They don't get giddy and lose their minds just because they made the NCAA tournament and their coach left... like we do EVERY time.

They stay calm cool and collected and use their momentum to get the best coach from another team that they can. Lather, Rinse, Repeat, Reload.

Agreed. A minor bump in the road to them. They plan their work, work their plan and stay focused on the prize.

Who’s the AD there? Can he run their athletic department and the A10 at the same time ?

[bigappleram]

Ed McLaughlin is their AD. And he’s excellent. I agree with the premise that they run that organization in an A class manner.

[reef]

Good for VCU.

Another excellent example of adapting and overcoming - when they beat their ass, hopefully.

I remember that they hosted Texas when Shaka went there

[Dino611]

Good for VCU.

Another excellent example of adapting and overcoming - when they beat their ass, hopefully.

I remember that they hosted Texas when Shaka went there

Their clause about having a H&H if their HC leaves for a better school is outstanding and brilliant thinking wish we could do this

[ramster]

Good for VCU.

Another excellent example of adapting and overcoming - when they beat their ass, hopefully.

I remember that they hosted Texas when Shaka went there

Their clause about having a H&H if their HC leaves for a better school is outstanding and brilliant thinking wish we could do this

The problem is it takes away bargaining power for the incoming coach. Archie Miller would have to agree in contract form to play URI home and home if he were to take the Gonzaga, UCLA, Kentucky, etc job. He might look less attractive to the higher level school and they then pass on Archie.
It's a great idea for fans, but it's the first I've heard of it being done.
Good for VCU - a school, program in a better bargaining position that is right now.

[Jdrums#3]

It doesn’t seem to be a problem for VCU, so far. I think you may be over-thinking it, imho.

[ramster]

No it's not a problem for VCU
I just never have heard of the agreement with any other school.
Some schools agree to play one another

[Dino611]

No it's not a problem for VCU
I just never have heard of the agreement with any other school.
Some schools agree to play one another

Schools like us in the A-10 need agreements like that to happen to get us good games, since the P6 are scared playing on the road in the OOC

[bigappleram]

It certainly hasn’t prevented anyone from hiring their coaches away.

[ramster]

True. But maybe that speaks more to the strength of their program.
VCU is hitting on all cylinders

We can't even get the Wi-Fi fixed, the Black Curtain and press taking up 89 prime seats, no replays,

Plus hiring Cox did not allow arranging a home and home.

Maybe Cox can get us a URI-Maryland home - home?

[steviep123]

[RI_Bred]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

[ElmCityRhody]

True. But maybe that speaks more to the strength of their program.
VCU is hitting on all cylinders

We can't even get the Wi-Fi fixed, the Black Curtain and press taking up 89 prime seats, no replays,

Plus hiring Cox did not allow arranging a home and home.

Maybe Cox can get us a URI-Maryland home - home?

Call it like it is .. the black “shower” curtain

Cracker Jack POS area

THINK LIKE AN IDIOT WE DO

[Billyboy78]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

Hopefully all of his players follow suit.

[KevanBoyles]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

Hopefully all of his players follow suit.

Most, if not, all of the players will be gone. FAU has no NIL and better, more prestigious schools will grab them out of the portal. The coach will also be gone in a heartbeat. There’s no way that FAU can match a much better offer. As far as the coach is concerned, this is very similar to URI, giving Hurley a raise only to be out of bid by UConn. Too little, too late.

[Rhody15]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

Hopefully all of his players follow suit.

Most, if not, all of the players will be gone. FAU has no NIL and better, more prestigious schools will grab them out of the portal. The coach will also be gone in a heartbeat. There’s no way that FAU can match a much better offer. As far as the coach is concerned, this is very similar to URI, giving Hurley a raise only to be out of bid by UConn. Too little, too late.

What P6 jobs are currently open?

Texas Texh is waiting to hire North Texas’ coach, any others open? Can’t think off top of my head.

If most/all his kids come back, wouldn’t be the worst thing to run it back and wait for more jobs to open up next season.

[reef]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

Wow I like that move for Dusty also

[Rhodymob05]

Now that’s commitment. Boca isn’t the worst place too.

[reef]

True and I can see it next year win the conference and he sets himself up for P6 when Probably more good jobs open

[RhowdyRam02]

Ed McLaughlin is their AD. And he’s excellent. I agree with the premise that they run that organization in an A class manner.

I talked to a few VCU fans following the Shane Donaldson incident, and they weren't impressed with McLaughlin. Not sure how legitimate their gripes were, but they weren't fans

[RhowdyRam02]

I remember that they hosted Texas when Shaka went there

Their clause about having a H&H if their HC leaves for a better school is outstanding and brilliant thinking wish we could do this

The problem is it takes away bargaining power for the incoming coach. Archie Miller would have to agree in contract form to play URI home and home if he were to take the Gonzaga, UCLA, Kentucky, etc job. He might look less attractive to the higher level school and they then pass on Archie.
It's a great idea for fans, but it's the first I've heard of it being done.
Good for VCU - a school, program in a better bargaining position that is right now.

If they really want a coach one away game isn't going to change the calculus and the home game is the type of home game they might normally try to buy anyway

[bigappleram]

Good for them/him. That's cool. I think I saw that most of their team is eligible to return next year as well?

Hopefully all of his players follow suit.

Most, if not, all of the players will be gone. FAU has no NIL and better, more prestigious schools will grab them out of the portal. The coach will also be gone in a heartbeat. There’s no way that FAU can match a much better offer. As far as the coach is concerned, this is very similar to URI, giving Hurley a raise only to be out of bid by UConn. Too little, too late.

He’s not going anywhere (yet). Unless the Carousel unexpectedly starts spinning again there isn’t a job out there for him. He’ll do 1 more year and then land a P5. Similar situation to Dan where he can bring back most of his team, start the season ranked and raise his profile even more.

[Section104]

Hopefully all of his players follow suit.

Most, if not, all of the players will be gone. FAU has no NIL and better, more prestigious schools will grab them out of the portal. The coach will also be gone in a heartbeat. There’s no way that FAU can match a much better offer. As far as the coach is concerned, this is very similar to URI, giving Hurley a raise only to be out of bid by UConn. Too little, too late.

He’s not going anywhere (yet). Unless the Carousel unexpectedly starts spinning again there isn’t a job out there for him. He’ll do 1 more year and then land a P5. Similar situation to Dan where he can bring back most of his team, start the season ranked and raise his profile even more.

Not sure how much time Laranaga has left but Miami would make a ton of sense. He'll be the next Indiana coach when the job opens.

[rhodyrudder]

No it's not a problem for VCU
I just never have heard of the agreement with any other school.
Some schools agree to play one another

PC had to play Fairfield iirc

[bigappleram]

Most, if not, all of the players will be gone. FAU has no NIL and better, more prestigious schools will grab them out of the portal. The coach will also be gone in a heartbeat. There’s no way that FAU can match a much better offer. As far as the coach is concerned, this is very similar to URI, giving Hurley a raise only to be out of bid by UConn. Too little, too late.

He’s not going anywhere (yet). Unless the Carousel unexpectedly starts spinning again there isn’t a job out there for him. He’ll do 1 more year and then land a P5. Similar situation to Dan where he can bring back most of his team, start the season ranked and raise his profile even more.

Not sure how much time Laranaga has left but Miami would make a ton of sense. He'll be the next Indiana coach when the job opens.

Yes Bloomington is a logical destination. If that job opens. Larranaga has been saying he wants to keep coaching all week.

[Blue Man]

Their clause about having a H&H if their HC leaves for a better school is outstanding and brilliant thinking wish we could do this

The problem is it takes away bargaining power for the incoming coach. Archie Miller would have to agree in contract form to play URI home and home if he were to take the Gonzaga, UCLA, Kentucky, etc job. He might look less attractive to the higher level school and they then pass on Archie.
It's a great idea for fans, but it's the first I've heard of it being done.
Good for VCU - a school, program in a better bargaining position that is right now.

If they really want a coach one away game isn't going to change the calculus and the home game is the type of home game they might normally try to buy anyway

Yeah we had that clause too - UConn elected to pay more money.

Dan will never play URI just like he'll never play Wagner or anywhere his brother is a coach unless it's an unavoidable tournament. He takes it all too personally.

[ramster]

Their clause about having a H&H if their HC leaves for a better school is outstanding and brilliant thinking wish we could do this

The problem is it takes away bargaining power for the incoming coach. Archie Miller would have to agree in contract form to play URI home and home if he were to take the Gonzaga, UCLA, Kentucky, etc job. He might look less attractive to the higher level school and they then pass on Archie.
It's a great idea for fans, but it's the first I've heard of it being done.
Good for VCU - a school, program in a better bargaining position that is right now.

If they really want a coach one away game isn't going to change the calculus and the home game is the type of home game they might normally try to buy anyway

So no big deal then.

[ramster]

No it's not a problem for VCU
I just never have heard of the agreement with any other school.
Some schools agree to play one another

PC had to play Fairfield iirc

Didn't Ed just want to do that? I don't remember but you are likely right.