Brayon Freeman Dismissed from Team

[Jdrums#3]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

Hahaha! Almost made me choke on my water. Funny stuff.

[RhodyRams916]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

Hahaha! Almost made me choke on my water. Funny stuff.

This is what I imagine Blueman sees through his window while watching Thomas play 40 min a game bahahahaha

[Rhody15]

Why should Archie take some of the blame? Should he just accept insubordination? Is that how things go in 2023?

He absolutely shouldn’t accept insubordination.

But freeman didn’t end up here by accident, Archie recruited him. Same with Harris.

Coach is also accountable for the guys he brings in

Thank you.

[Jdrums#3]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

He is going to have one heck of an opportunity here over the rest of the season. It's going to look very different.

The ball is in his court, as we used to say, DD.

Hopefully, the young man takes full advantage of the opportunity. We shall see.

[TruePoint]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

[Rhody15]

COLOSSAL failure.

I’m not putting 100% blame on Freeman, however.

Most of it? Yes.

Archie needs some blame as well.

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

NYG, I don’t believe 15 is trolling here. There are 2 sides to every story and we don’t know the whole story - or at least, I don’t. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to speculate that the staff might have SOME blame. However, I do think his use of “colossal” is stretching it.

If you are joking about the trolling’ then disregard my post.

The Brayon Freeman URI relationship was a colossal failure. He didn't last one season and got kicked off the team.

Don't see any other way to spin it.

[Blue Man]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

Nailed it.

Also, I remember a lot of similar "world is ending" takes when Jordan Hare was kicked out hours before opening night in Hurley's 2nd year.

The world didn't end. We got better in the long run.

Agree with all that Bray was one of the few scoring options on a team devoid of them. But, in the grand scheme of things, this will be a footnote in our history as we get back to winning in the next couple years.

[KingstonLane]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

I wouldn’t call it a setback, but after this season finishes in a few weeks, my question is did we move forward?

Instilling a culture and building a team takes time for sure. But outside of a few guys getting bench level minutes, we’ll be going into 2023-2024 season with a bunch of new faces and returners who still have a ton to prove

[CaptainRon]

Hate to say it but this staff has not lived up to its reputation as recruiters. Of the 8 players they brought in do any excite you?
Must do much better with 2nd class.

Come on, how much time did he have to put this class together. You don’t recruit people overnight. As he who won’t be mentioned used to say, it’s a process

[Jdrums#3]

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

NYG, I don’t believe 15 is trolling here. There are 2 sides to every story and we don’t know the whole story - or at least, I don’t. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to speculate that the staff might have SOME blame. However, I do think his use of “colossal” is stretching it.

If you are joking about the trolling’ then disregard my post.

I think he used that term because of all our new players, he was the most proven and expected to have the largest immediate impact for us.
Also being only a sophomore, that would give him 3 years with our program.

To me this is a huge disappointment that it didn't work out and will put our rebuild even further behind.

From solely a talent perspective, that’s a good point, Jersey, as always. But, concerning the whole situation, probably for the best that the parties part ways and therefore, imo, I would not characterize this as a huge disappointment. We are close however; just splitting hairs.

[Jdrums#3]

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

NYG, I don’t believe 15 is trolling here. There are 2 sides to every story and we don’t know the whole story - or at least, I don’t. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to speculate that the staff might have SOME blame. However, I do think his use of “colossal” is stretching it.

If you are joking about the trolling’ then disregard my post.

The Brayon Freeman URI relationship was a colossal failure. He didn't last one season and got kicked off the team.

Don't see any other way to spin it.

That’s fine, 15. I am not as reactionary or hyperbolic as you. I’ll stick with my opinion on the colossal part.

[NYGFan_Section208]

COLOSSAL failure.

I’m not putting 100% blame on Freeman, however.

Most of it? Yes.

Archie needs some blame as well.

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

It's my opinion that Archie deserves some of the blame for taking him in and not being able to contain him.

If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine. Does not make it a troll.

Someone earlier said he went to 4 high schools. Red flag right there.

Agree. Huge red flag. But it's still like an employer employee agreement. Looks like the employee couldn't live up to his end of the deal, so the employer had to do what he had to do. I'll agree that it's easy to say that he shouldn't have brought him in (at least in business, you have to hire on attitude), but I'm not seeing where Archie did anything wrong once he gave the kid a chance (yep, probably shouldn't have). I also think, we will never see the dude play significant minutes at a higher level than URI. If you can't find a way to coexist with the coach when you have the most talent on a mediocre team... that's a you problem, not a coach problem, and probably not going to change anytime soon.

[Jdrums#3]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

Also, tying in to net impact you mentioned, TP - although I know we all tend to over focus on the O side of the ball - can’t leave out his impact or lack thereof on the D side of the ball. Sometimes a player giveth on one end and taketh away on the other.

[RhodyRams916]

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

It's my opinion that Archie deserves some of the blame for taking him in and not being able to contain him.

If you disagree with my opinion, that's fine. Does not make it a troll.

Someone earlier said he went to 4 high schools. Red flag right there.

Agree. Huge red flag. But it's still like an employer employee agreement. Looks like the employee couldn't live up to his end of the deal, so the employer had to do what he had to do. I'll agree that it's easy to say that he shouldn't have brought him in (at least in business, you have to hire on attitude), but I'm not seeing where Archie did anything wrong once he gave the kid a chance (yep, probably shouldn't have). I also think, we will never see the dude play significant minutes at a higher level than URI. If you can't find a way to coexist with the coach when you have the most talent on a mediocre team... that's a you problem, not a coach problem, and probably not going to change anytime soon.

Yeah, and we saw the amount of coaching Bray specifically got. I believe Archie tried and it just wasn't a good fit.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

*laughs with his mouth full of his car's tailpipe while crying"

Too funny....when I read 21's post, I did not think that at all. I was thinking...*wonders which will be worse ..."watching that, or being stabbed in the head with scissors every time Yorke gets obnoxious." Could be closer than you think....

[RhodyRams916]

I'm ready for Bassy's redemption arc

[Jdrums#3]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

*laughs with his mouth full of his car's tailpipe while crying"

Too funny....when I read 21's post, I did not think that at all. I was thinking...*wonders which will be worse ..."watching that, or being stabbed in the head with scissors every time Yorke gets obnoxious." Could be closer than you think....

[Jersey77]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

Bray wears his emotion on his sleeve and tends to share it on social media putting it all out there.
Again, none of us know what some of the other players are feeling.

If we lose out, yeah player's moral will be terrible, and the staff will have its work cut out for them.
I am more concerned about Ish, being very close friends with Bray, testing the portal again.
After the season he is having, he may decide to trade up and should get plenty of interest.

Like I said before, I hope we can retain the players Archie wants to keep.
If not, this can turn out to be a massive rebuild.

Again, going into this season, I felt Bray will play a huge role in turning this program around.
So now that he is already gone, I agree with 15 that it is a major set-back.

[Blue Man]

Hate to say it but this staff has not lived up to its reputation as recruiters. Of the 8 players they brought in do any excite you?
Must do much better with 2nd class.

Come on, how much time did he have to put this class together. You don’t recruit people overnight. As he who won’t be mentioned used to say, it’s a process

This is a great point. Looking back on this season - remember:

Archie wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
KJ wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
Woodward - Didn't even know he didn't have a job so he recruited kids to Seton Hall. And when Holloway was hired, those kids chose to commit or leave weeks before Woodward found another landing spot.
Carroll was here - and our "pipeline" was Cox's nephew who is averaging 6 points a game on an average WCC team.

A lot of us (me) should've tempered our expectations based on the fact that we were so late in the cycle.

The guys we got had warts - Ant (academics), Bray (attitude), Bilau (injuries), Tchikou (injuries), Weston (injuries). High ceiling, high risk gets. That's what happens late in the cycle. You also had bad luck with Foumena (eligibility) who looked like a decent get. Rory has shown flashes when given the time, albeit out of his natural position. Lou needs to adjust to the college game.

I would believe that in addition to Dubsky and Estevez next year, we'll see some players come that I'm sure our assistants have connections to that aren't on anyone's radar. Kids that had AAU or ties at other schools with Arch/KJ/Duane and now know there's a stable place for them to go.

In retrospect, this is just a filler year. See what you've got, try some things, shed weight, growing pains, move on.

15 is right that the Freeman experiment was a failure, but it was just that - an experiment. At least it was a quick experiment, and not a long term one that spans/ruins multiple seasons. We weren't winning anything this year, now we have an extra spot and more time to prepare to fill it.

Wouldn't shock me if a young Seton Hall kid not getting PT comes down here, or a kid from KJ's past.

As for Ish - if he opted in for Archie and saw his usage/performance explode this year, I can't imagine he's going to leave unless it's to be closer to home with his dad's health.

[NYGFan_Section208]

COLOSSAL failure.

I’m not putting 100% blame on Freeman, however.

Most of it? Yes.

Archie needs some blame as well.

Trollin', trollin', trollin'

NYG, I don’t believe 15 is trolling here. There are 2 sides to every story and we don’t know the whole story - or at least, I don’t. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to speculate that the staff might have SOME blame. However, I do think his use of “colossal” is stretching it.

If you are joking about the trolling’ then disregard my post.

Oh, I agree it's easy to say now that he shouldn't have brought him in... But I'm hard pressed to believe that Arch and crew did not do everything possible to get him to get with the program.

Imagine if DC was still here....we'd probably be in for three more years of the petulant selfish teenager.

[RhodyRams916]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

Bray wears his emotion on his sleeve and tends to share it on social media putting it all out there.
Again, none of us know what some of the other players are feeling.

If we lose out, yeah player's moral will be terrible, and the staff will have its work cut out for them.
I am more concerned about Ish, being very close friends with Bray, testing the portal again.
After the season he is having, he may decide to trade up and should get plenty of interest.

Like I said before, I hope we can retain the players Archie wants to keep.
If not, this can turn out to be a massive rebuild.

Again, going into this season, I felt Bray will play a huge role in turning this program around.
So now that he is already gone, I agree with 15 that it is a major set-back.

Except it's probably not a major set-back if we're looking at long-term success. You can't keep a guy like that on the team that's going to throw a fit every time something doesn't go his way.

[Rhodyram]

Fran Dunphy has Lasalle at 6-6 in the A10. Theres no reason we couldn't have pulled together a better squad

[Jersey77]

Bray is a talented player but I’m not sure I completely agree with the “this is a massive setback to our rebuild” takes. The reality is that we don’t really have any idea what Bray’s net impact was on this team - yes, he was one of our only capable scorers and scoring is definitely important. He didn’t do everything well, though, and that is only looking at the tangible and measurable things that we could see out on the court. If he was disruptive enough to have been dismissed from the team at this stage (keeping in mind that he was one of our only capable scorers), it’s very hard to know what the impact of the cumulative off-court, intangible and immeasurable stuff was.

I was not agitating to run Bray out of town a week ago, so I’m not here affirmatively making a sunshine brigade addition-by-subtraction argument. I simply don’t know enough to have an opinion on that either way. But this season was a lost cause anyways, if moving on from him now means we have a better chance at finding someone to replace the production without all the attendant drama next season then I’m all for that.

Bray wears his emotion on his sleeve and tends to share it on social media putting it all out there.
Again, none of us know what some of the other players are feeling.

If we lose out, yeah player's moral will be terrible, and the staff will have its work cut out for them.
I am more concerned about Ish, being very close friends with Bray, testing the portal again.
After the season he is having, he may decide to trade up and should get plenty of interest.

Like I said before, I hope we can retain the players Archie wants to keep.
If not, this can turn out to be a massive rebuild.

Again, going into this season, I felt Bray will play a huge role in turning this program around.
So now that he is already gone, I agree with 15 that it is a major set-back.

Except it's probably not a major set-back if we're looking at long-term success. You can't keep a guy like that on the team that's going to throw a fit every time something doesn't go his way.

It is a set-back in terms of things not working out as planned.
Obviously after the GM situation changes were needed.

[RhodyRams916]

Bray wears his emotion on his sleeve and tends to share it on social media putting it all out there.
Again, none of us know what some of the other players are feeling.

If we lose out, yeah player's moral will be terrible, and the staff will have its work cut out for them.
I am more concerned about Ish, being very close friends with Bray, testing the portal again.
After the season he is having, he may decide to trade up and should get plenty of interest.

Like I said before, I hope we can retain the players Archie wants to keep.
If not, this can turn out to be a massive rebuild.

Again, going into this season, I felt Bray will play a huge role in turning this program around.
So now that he is already gone, I agree with 15 that it is a major set-back.

Except it's probably not a major set-back if we're looking at long-term success. You can't keep a guy like that on the team that's going to throw a fit every time something doesn't go his way.

It is a set-back in terms of things not working out as planned.
Obviously after the GM situation changes were needed.

Agreed, I thought Bray would also be a key player for us in his last 3 years. Guess not

[rhodylaw]

Good luck Bray - hope you find a place to have success. He is a very talented player, with that said I am not going to lose sleep about any player that leaves off a team that may not win 10 games this year. That one player is not going to change the trajectory. We need a massive overhaul.

[RamStock]

Finally, Bassy can get the minutes he deserves...

He is going to have one heck of an opportunity here over the rest of the season. It's going to look very different.

The ball is in his court, as we used to say, DD.

Hopefully, the young man takes full advantage of the opportunity. We shall see.

Ha, ha. This is really where the program currently stands? Bassy is a very low D-1 player who will never be part of an NCAA caliber team. Definitely not excited to see him play more than he already does.

[Jdrums#3]

No addition by subtraction possibility here, Jersey?

I think there is but time will tell if and to what extent.

Also, IF due to loyalty out of friendship, Ish decided to leave because of the situation with Bray, I could understand that and respect it. But, I am not concerned as there does not appear to be any problems between Arch and Ish at this time. Plus if there was some disagreement between the two regarding Bray, I would figure they have a good chance of ironing it out based on their actions towards each other to date from what I can tell and others have posted.

Don’t let this frustrating outcome and news of Bray sour your outlook. I value your usual realistic positivity.

[NYGFan_Section208]

With the way the season's going I'm pretty sure we beat VCU on Wed.

Huh!!! This team has had trouble beating the press with Freeman. What's it going to look like without him facing the havoc of VCU. Going to be ugly. I can't believe we are going to see more Thomas. I want more Weston, Stewart and Hutchinson. We already know what we have in Thomas. Obviously his playing time increases with only 3 true scholarship guards on the roster. What are the odds of winning another game. Play the young guys. Let them get their lumps. Is it November yet. Looks like a double IPA at twisted for Wednesday night.

I take my kids there for and takeout every Friday

[bigappleram]

The loss here isn’t Bray it’s the opportunity cost.

Who did we stop pursuing or chose not to pursue us once we signed Bray? Was there a foundational piece out there that we walked away from bc we thought Bray was that.

Also does this strain the KJ relationship? Bray was his guy.

[Bos8]

Fran Dunphy has Lasalle at 6-6 in the A10. Theres no reason we couldn't have pulled together a better squad

Correct, but of their top 9 scorers this season, only two were transfers (They were twin brothers that transferred from St. Peters). He did lose a few players to transfer, but some of their current talent was already there.

[Rhody Sody]

I’m not concerned about a 36.8% volume shooter that doesn’t buy into a team first mentality. He has talent, no doubt…wish him well. I’d rather see him buy in and develop his game but i don’t think he was going to lead the team to a tourney berth next year. Brayon’s recent attitude wasn’t good for the team and it has been a distraction. I’d rather sacrifice a few potential wins over the next month for the direction of the program. We weren’t making noise in the a10 tourney.

Glad that we have a coach in control of the program again. Stick to your values and build a team. Patience…

[RhodyRams916]

I’m not concerned about a 36.8% volume shooter that doesn’t buy into a team first mentality. He has talent, no doubt…wish him well. I’d rather see him buy in and develop his game but i don’t think he was going to lead the team to a tourney berth next year. Brayon’s recent attitude wasn’t good for the team and it has been a distraction. I’d rather sacrifice a few potential wins over the next month for the direction of the program. We weren’t making noise in the a10 tourney.

Glad that we have a coach in control of the program again. Stick to your values and build a team. Patience…

Imagine if David Cox was still coach... yikes.

[LoveThoseRams]

All I will say is "InArchITrust"

Sure there is more to the story, and I believe Miller is acting in the best interest of the program.

[NYGFan_Section208]

No addition by subtraction possibility here, Jersey?

I think there is but time will tell if and to what extent.

Also, IF due to loyalty out of friendship, Ish decided to leave because of the situation with Bray, I could understand that and respect it. But, I am not concerned as there does not appear to be any problems between Arch and Ish at this time. Plus if there was some disagreement between the two regarding Bray, I would figure they have a good chance of ironing it out based on their actions towards each other to date from what I can tell and others have posted.

Don’t let this frustrating outcome and news of Bray sour your outlook. I value your usual realistic positivity.

Ish seems more mature and thoughtful than that. What's he gonna do, side with Bray and go "with" him? I wouldn't care if he was my "friend" or not, I wouldn't want to taint MY career by getting any of HIS on it... Would probably want it kept on the down low that we were even friends....

[RhodyRams916]

All I will say is "InArchITrust"

Sure there is more to the story, and I believe Miller is acting in the best interest of the program.

That's what I've said a few times! There's more to this story that he can't disclose. I trust Archie.

[bigappleram]

I'm sure there is more but it's not hard to guess what that more is.
What we saw was liking tweets about you transferring, pouting on the bench and not cheering on teammates, overall poor body language, insubordination, etc etc.

[rhodylaw]

Fran Dunphy has Lasalle at 6-6 in the A10. Theres no reason we couldn't have pulled together a better squad

I think Archie focused too much on long term players this year to be good this year. In a way that could work out better long term because if he can identify 3 or 4 foundational players then he can bring transfers in to surround them. Foundational players are not necessarily the most talented players but buy into the system and culture completely. I am sure he could have made a .500 team this year, and a .500 team next year and so on. The goal is build a championship program year in and year out - that doesn’t happen year 1.

[LoveThoseRams]

[Jdrums#3]

He is going to have one heck of an opportunity here over the rest of the season. It's going to look very different.

The ball is in his court, as we used to say, DD.

Hopefully, the young man takes full advantage of the opportunity. We shall see.

Ha, ha. This is really where the program currently stands? Bassy is a very low D-1 player who will never be part of an NCAA caliber team. Definitely not excited to see him play more than he already does.

For this season only, I think so. Especially after Arch was quoted in his presser today by Bill that (paraphrasing) he and the program are starting from ground zero (I will assume he means from when he was hired and the start of the season and not today).

I agree that Bassy is a limited player but may as well give him (and others) some time for the remainder of the season to see if he can show more when pressed. His ball handling and passing are pretty good for this particular team at this time.

Unless he proves otherwise, I still think he has the potential to be a solid ten minute max a game role player over the next few years, if he is happy here with that role while better players get added.

[Jersey77]

No addition by subtraction possibility here, Jersey?

I think there is but time will tell if and to what extent.

Also, IF due to loyalty out of friendship, Ish decided to leave because of the situation with Bray, I could understand that and respect it. But, I am not concerned as there does not appear to be any problems between Arch and Ish at this time. Plus if there was some disagreement between the two regarding Bray, I would figure they have a good chance of ironing it out based on their actions towards each other to date from what I can tell and others have posted.

Don’t let this frustrating outcome and news of Bray sour your outlook. I value your usual realistic positivity.

Ish seems more mature and thoughtful than that. What's he gonna do, side with Bray and go "with" him? I wouldn't care if he was my "friend" or not, I wouldn't want to taint MY career by getting any of HIS on it... Would probably want it kept on the down low that we were even friends....

No, Ish wouldn't leave because of his close friendship to Bray, but may test the portal to trade up to a higher-level program with more national exposure. He only has 2 years eligibility left and may look for his best opportunity to get to the next level. With his buddy Bray not here, maybe more of an incentive to leave.

Also the fact of his dad's health condition.
Maryland loses both their grad guards Young and Carey, maybe Cox lures him there.

Again all this is total guesswork and conjecture, I hope he stays here the next 2 years.

[RhodyRams916]

Yeah, ganging up on the coach is shit parents do in u12 soccer games. That's pretty inappropriate.

[section(105)]

No addition by subtraction possibility here, Jersey?

I think there is but time will tell if and to what extent.

Also, IF due to loyalty out of friendship, Ish decided to leave because of the situation with Bray, I could understand that and respect it. But, I am not concerned as there does not appear to be any problems between Arch and Ish at this time. Plus if there was some disagreement between the two regarding Bray, I would figure they have a good chance of ironing it out based on their actions towards each other to date from what I can tell and others have posted.

Don’t let this frustrating outcome and news of Bray sour your outlook. I value your usual realistic positivity.

Ish seems more mature and thoughtful than that. What's he gonna do, side with Bray and go "with" him? I wouldn't care if he was my "friend" or not, I wouldn't want to taint MY career by getting any of HIS on it... Would probably want it kept on the down low that we were even friends....

No, Ish wouldn't leave because of his close friendship to Bray, but may test the portal to trade up to a higher-level program with more national exposure. He only has 2 years eligibility left and may look for his best opportunity to get to the next level. With his buddy Bray not here, maybe more of an incentive to leave.

Also the fact of his dad's health condition.
Maryland loses both their grad guards Young and Carey, maybe Cox lures him there.

Again all this is total guesswork and conjecture, I hope he stays here the next 2 years.

Yes, I get it is all conjecture, but those factors, I would think would have to be strong considerations in his thinking about moving on via the portal. If he goes, I get it.

[SGreenwell]

Fran Dunphy has Lasalle at 6-6 in the A10. Theres no reason we couldn't have pulled together a better squad

I think Archie focused too much on long term players this year to be good this year. In a way that could work out better long term because if he can identify 3 or 4 foundational players then he can bring transfers in to surround them. Foundational players are not necessarily the most talented players but buy into the system and culture completely. I am sure he could have made a .500 team this year, and a .500 team next year and so on. The goal is build a championship program year in and year out - that doesn’t happen year 1.

Do they hang banners for .500 finishes now? Maybe La Salle does. While I realize it would be less frustrating to finish .500 this year, I ultimately think that La Salle and UMass - currently 13-12 overall, and 4-9 in A-10 play - probably aren't in any better position than URI going forward, even if they won a couple more games this year because they relied more on older transfers.

Given the compressed time frame that Miller was working with to recruit, I kind of assume he took anyone promising with a pulse. One of the things I'd like to do in the off-season is to look at when players sign, and to see how they end up overall as a collegiate player. I could be mistaken, but I think Baron routinely signed guys late, and pretty much none of them panned out. And I think the worst Hurley recruits were "we need to fill a scholarship" types, like Aris. But, it's been so long that I could be mistaken!

[theblueram]

I said it in the Mason thread Archie should Brizz his ass. And he did. Time to move one and get some good players.

[Rhodyram]

Knowing nothing other that what I see on the surface and the landscape of college basketball, I'd say theres a better than 50/50 shot Ish is not here next year.

[Rhodyram]

Fran Dunphy has Lasalle at 6-6 in the A10. Theres no reason we couldn't have pulled together a better squad

I think Archie focused too much on long term players this year to be good this year. In a way that could work out better long term because if he can identify 3 or 4 foundational players then he can bring transfers in to surround them. Foundational players are not necessarily the most talented players but buy into the system and culture completely. I am sure he could have made a .500 team this year, and a .500 team next year and so on. The goal is build a championship program year in and year out - that doesn’t happen year 1.

Do they hang banners for .500 finishes now? Maybe La Salle does. While I realize it would be less frustrating to finish .500 this year, I ultimately think that La Salle and UMass - currently 13-12 overall, and 4-9 in A-10 play - probably aren't in any better position than URI going forward, even if they won a couple more games this year because they relied more on older transfers.

Given the compressed time frame that Miller was working with to recruit, I kind of assume he took anyone promising with a pulse. One of the things I'd like to do in the off-season is to look at when players sign, and to see how they end up overall as a collegiate player. I could be mistaken, but I think Baron routinely signed guys late, and pretty much none of them panned out. And I think the worst Hurley recruits were "we need to fill a scholarship" types, like Aris. But, it's been so long that I could be mistaken!

No banners for .500 records but I'm sure its a little more appealing to the eye than this dumpster fire.

[Jdrums#3]

No addition by subtraction possibility here, Jersey?

I think there is but time will tell if and to what extent.

Also, IF due to loyalty out of friendship, Ish decided to leave because of the situation with Bray, I could understand that and respect it. But, I am not concerned as there does not appear to be any problems between Arch and Ish at this time. Plus if there was some disagreement between the two regarding Bray, I would figure they have a good chance of ironing it out based on their actions towards each other to date from what I can tell and others have posted.

Don’t let this frustrating outcome and news of Bray sour your outlook. I value your usual realistic positivity.

Ish seems more mature and thoughtful than that. What's he gonna do, side with Bray and go "with" him? I wouldn't care if he was my "friend" or not, I wouldn't want to taint MY career by getting any of HIS on it... Would probably want it kept on the down low that we were even friends....

Agree NYG. It was an “if” in discussion with Jersey and any concern he may have with Ish leaving and his friendship with Bray.

Myself, I am not concerned with Ish potentially leaving. I can understand others having concern, however. Jersey follows the program very closely and is level headed so, I take notice if he raises a concern regardless of the level of concern.

[Iggy1979]

Hate to say it but this staff has not lived up to its reputation as recruiters. Of the 8 players they brought in do any excite you?
Must do much better with 2nd class.

Come on, how much time did he have to put this class together. You don’t recruit people overnight. As he who won’t be mentioned used to say, it’s a process

This is a great point. Looking back on this season - remember:

Archie wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
KJ wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
Woodward - Didn't even know he didn't have a job so he recruited kids to Seton Hall. And when Holloway was hired, those kids chose to commit or leave weeks before Woodward found another landing spot.
Carroll was here - and our "pipeline" was Cox's nephew who is averaging 6 points a game on an average WCC team.

A lot of us (me) should've tempered our expectations based on the fact that we were so late in the cycle.

The guys we got had warts - Ant (academics), Bray (attitude), Bilau (injuries), Tchikou (injuries), Weston (injuries). High ceiling, high risk gets. That's what happens late in the cycle. You also had bad luck with Foumena (eligibility) who looked like a decent get. Rory has shown flashes when given the time, albeit out of his natural position. Lou needs to adjust to the college game.

I would believe that in addition to Dubsky and Estevez next year, we'll see some players come that I'm sure our assistants have connections to that aren't on anyone's radar. Kids that had AAU or ties at other schools with Arch/KJ/Duane and now know there's a stable place for them to go.

In retrospect, this is just a filler year. See what you've got, try some things, shed weight, growing pains, move on.

15 is right that the Freeman experiment was a failure, but it was just that - an experiment. At least it was a quick experiment, and not a long term one that spans/ruins multiple seasons. We weren't winning anything this year, now we have an extra spot and more time to prepare to fill it.

Wouldn't shock me if a young Seton Hall kid not getting PT comes down here, or a kid from KJ's past.

As for Ish - if he opted in for Archie and saw his usage/performance explode this year, I can't imagine he's going to leave unless it's to be closer to home with his dad's health.

Fine. You can use that excuse once. Estevez, Dubsky and others better be the real deal. I didnt expect a lot of HRs in the first class but did the staff even hit a double (mixed metaphor).

[theblueram]

Come on, how much time did he have to put this class together. You don’t recruit people overnight. As he who won’t be mentioned used to say, it’s a process

This is a great point. Looking back on this season - remember:

Archie wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
KJ wasn't coaching. Didn't have a pipeline coming in.
Woodward - Didn't even know he didn't have a job so he recruited kids to Seton Hall. And when Holloway was hired, those kids chose to commit or leave weeks before Woodward found another landing spot.
Carroll was here - and our "pipeline" was Cox's nephew who is averaging 6 points a game on an average WCC team.

A lot of us (me) should've tempered our expectations based on the fact that we were so late in the cycle.

The guys we got had warts - Ant (academics), Bray (attitude), Bilau (injuries), Tchikou (injuries), Weston (injuries). High ceiling, high risk gets. That's what happens late in the cycle. You also had bad luck with Foumena (eligibility) who looked like a decent get. Rory has shown flashes when given the time, albeit out of his natural position. Lou needs to adjust to the college game.

I would believe that in addition to Dubsky and Estevez next year, we'll see some players come that I'm sure our assistants have connections to that aren't on anyone's radar. Kids that had AAU or ties at other schools with Arch/KJ/Duane and now know there's a stable place for them to go.

In retrospect, this is just a filler year. See what you've got, try some things, shed weight, growing pains, move on.

15 is right that the Freeman experiment was a failure, but it was just that - an experiment. At least it was a quick experiment, and not a long term one that spans/ruins multiple seasons. We weren't winning anything this year, now we have an extra spot and more time to prepare to fill it.

Wouldn't shock me if a young Seton Hall kid not getting PT comes down here, or a kid from KJ's past.

As for Ish - if he opted in for Archie and saw his usage/performance explode this year, I can't imagine he's going to leave unless it's to be closer to home with his dad's health.

Fine. You can use that excuse once. Estevez, Dubsky and others better be the real deal. I didnt expect a lot of HRs in the first class but did the staff even hit a double (mixed metaphor).

With you on this Iggy. I did look up Cam and it seems he's a 6'4" PG 3 star. So not too bad. But Archie needs to get some talent in here pronto.

[Rhody Guy]

lost in all of this is how dominant one team in the mackal pickup league is about to be

I'll report back tonight...