2012's Rebuild vs. Today

[SGreenwell]

I don’t give him a pass, he’s the one who chose to lock in all 3 + year players and limit flexibility. Now he could always Briz some players, but we know how people feel about that…

The most valuable commodity to any player is playing time. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to name players who 1) stayed here for four years but 2) did so while playing less than 10 minutes per game each year. The only ones that come to mind are guys like Iffy Onyekaba, who I think graduated but was initially playing a bit his freshman year, before getting hurt and recruited over. And, given how easy players can transfer now, it's hard to imagine that trend being bucked as we go forward.

I don't think Hurley in the past, or Archie now, really has to worry about cutting scholarships as a result. If you sit down with a player and tell them they probably aren't going to earn many minutes next year, they're probably going to transfer. If they want to stay and essentially just be a body for practice, I'm sure that's fine too, as long as they're not going to be some problem child in the locker room. Ultimately, we're never going to have 12+ scholarship players that ALL are clearly A-10 talents. There is always going to be churn at the back of the roster.

[RIFan]

I’m not sure I agree that I would be fine with them staying with a scholarship to be a practice body, considering our current situation. But yes, if the program is in good shape then you can afford to carry a couple like that.

[SGreenwell]

I’m not sure I agree that I would be fine with them staying with a scholarship to be a practice body, considering our current situation. But yes, if the program is in good shape then you can afford to carry a couple like that.

I don't really think that's likely, to be clear, just had to mention it as a possibility. I mean, maybe when we're good - guys like Tertsea and Layssard stayed multiple years, even though they weren't playing, but the team was also making NCAA tournaments at the time. But it's hard to imagine scenarios in which players are using a scholarship for 4 years and just not logging any regular season minutes. In those situations, I doubt they're staying because they love the Oceanography program, they're going to transfer down to places they can get minutes.

[UCH21377]

I don’t give him a pass, he’s the one who chose to lock in all 3 + year players and limit flexibility. Now he could always Briz some players, but we know how people feel about that…

The most valuable commodity to any player is playing time. Frankly, I'd be hard pressed to name players who 1) stayed here for four years but 2) did so while playing less than 10 minutes per game each year. The only ones that come to mind are guys like Iffy Onyekaba, who I think graduated but was initially playing a bit his freshman year, before getting hurt and recruited over. And, given how easy players can transfer now, it's hard to imagine that trend being bucked as we go forward.

I don't think Hurley in the past, or Archie now, really has to worry about cutting scholarships as a result. If you sit down with a player and tell them they probably aren't going to earn many minutes next year, they're probably going to transfer. If they want to stay and essentially just be a body for practice, I'm sure that's fine too, as long as they're not going to be some problem child in the locker room. Ultimately, we're never going to have 12+ scholarship players that ALL are clearly A-10 talents. There is always going to be churn at the back of the roster.

It's not the back of the roster I am worried about.

[Rhody72]

It's not the back of the roster I am worried about.

It's the top of the coaching staff I'm worried about! Let's keep Archie off of I-10.

[Jersey77]

I am not seeing all doom and gloom.

This season has been ugly and worse than I expected but I am trying to put it in my rear-view mirror.
I am just looking forward to seeing how our players develop moving forward.
23-24 will be a major improvement.
One year can make a big difference in a young and raw player's growth.
Just as important it gives the new staff a season of experience in the A10.

Unlike some others here, I don't think we will have a huge roster make-over.
I feel Archie will just tweak some roster spots with a few upgrades.

Looking at next season, if some players don't decide to leave.
Our guard play should be solid with Ish, Bray, and hopefully Ant.
Add in Cam and Dubs who can add another dimension with their shooting ability.
Bassy with limited minutes off the bench as a PG isn't the worst.

Weston can be a solid wing in the A10, he will continue to get better.
The jury is still out on Hutch, who is still very raw.

Samb and Alex need to gain strength but can rotate at the 4.
Bilau and Foumena can hopefully hold down the 5.
Not ready to give up on Rory, but not sure what Archie's plans are for him.

I think we will be okay at guard, but Archie may make some upgrades in the frontcourt.

Fortunately for us, no team is distinguishing themselves in the A10.

[rambone 78]

Who would have thought that 2 of our most successful athletic programs are now football and WBB, and MBB currently sucks. Talk about role reversal. How times have changed.

[section(105)]

I am not seeing all doom and gloom.

This season has been ugly and worse than I expected but I am trying to put it in my rear-view mirror.
I am just looking forward to seeing how our players develop moving forward.
23-24 will be a major improvement.
One year can make a big difference in a young and raw player's growth.
Just as important it gives the new staff a season of experience in the A10.

Unlike some others here, I don't think we will have a huge roster make-over.
I feel Archie will just tweak some roster spots with a few upgrades.

Looking at next season, if some players don't decide to leave.
Our guard play should be solid with Ish, Bray, and hopefully Ant.
Add in Cam and Dubs who can add another dimension with their shooting ability.
Bassy with limited minutes off the bench as a PG isn't the worst.

Weston can be a solid wing in the A10, he will continue to get better.
The jury is still out on Hutch, who is still very raw.

Samb and Alex need to gain strength but can rotate at the 4.
Bilau and Foumena can hopefully hold down the 5.
Not ready to give up on Rory, but not sure what Archie's plans are for him.

I think we will be okay at guard, but Archie may make some upgrades in the frontcourt.

Fortunately for us, no team is distinguishing themselves in the A10.

OK, love the optimism of the looking ahead with this group. However, I am in the mindset that if all those things fall into place the collective ceiling of all that is short of what is needed to be a factor in the A-10 top tier. Some high impact talent from the portal or recruits will be needed to build around with those support pieces with their limited ceilings.

[hrstrat57]

Right now we are approaching cupcake status. Not something I’m real happy about.

There’s WBB and hockey still for winning URI winter entertainment at least…

[Blue Man]

The new players that Archie has brought in are not at the level that a lot of us expected. Yes this is year 1 but much better talent is needed. I think this is what has us concerned. There will be improvement of course, but I dont see this group capable of contending with the top of the league. A lot of work to do. Cooley and Hurley have brought in major talent via the transfer route. We have to do the same. Will we? That's what has me worried.

Cooley and Hurley have established winning teams, winning cultures, and returned upper-classmen leaders on their respective NCAA teams. They needed pieces to add, not a complete culture/roster change.

And again, by that argument - it's why Cox's expectations were so high. You had 3 all conference players, including one of the best PG's in the country as a junior. Even your bench/practice squad guys knew what was expected of them and carried that in their day to day.

URI's returning players only knew losing and dysfunction. Doesn't matter what you're bringing into that cesspool - you have to burn it all down and start over. That's what we're doing.

I feel like a lot of people were also gushing about what Frank Martin did with his "win now" transfers (currently 1-2 in the A10), have 1 Q2 win. Where do they go with their upperclassmen rentals next year? Sure they beat an NIT team in Colorado - but their other wins are CCSU, USF, Charlotte, Murray State, Albany, Harvard, Hofstra and Dartmouth. They also lost to Towson (by double digits), UMass Lowell, North Texas (by 18), and St Bonnies (by 19).

Would you feel that much better if we had a couple more shots go down and we were 10-5 instead of 5-10? We're still not NCAA bound. Wins and losses don't matter in year ONE.

Archie is installing a complicated system. He's trying to figure out who fits and he's going after the "right guys" to fit it. Bray is one of those cornerstone guys - like Fatts - but you need to coach him, and that means having a long term plan that you don't abandon in a meaningless game at la salle.

At Dayton he had 1 top 75 class with a 4 star (Kostas Antentekoumpo). That was his only 4 star recruit, and it didn't come until Dayton had already been to 3 straight tourneys.

Scoochie Smith was a 3 star. Kendall Pollard wasn't on anyone's radar.

Trust the man. Don't waste the energy to get worked up over these losses. Trust the system.

I'd love to get a count of the habitual posters in the Jim Baron 2.0 thread when Hurley "wasn't the guy" just so we can see who's instincts here trend in the right direction.

[ATPTourFan]

We could do that!

Take a look at how absolutely wrong some members were about Hurley:

Jim Baron 2.0

[ramster]

We could do that!

Take a look at how absolutely wrong some members were about Hurley:

Jim Baron 2.0

Some members? It was brutal.

[bigappleram]

Wow there are some all time takes in there…and I only got to page 3 !!! Yikes

[ramster]

A few months ago I read it beginning to end. Was a slow day.

[Blue Man]

Wow there are some all time takes in there…and I only got to page 3 !!! Yikes

It was a tough wall to defend. But defend we did.

[RhowdyRam02]

Wow there are some all time takes in there…and I only got to page 3 !!! Yikes

It was a tough wall to defend. But defend we did.

I nominate you and I for the Keaney Blue coaching committee. We defended the wall on Hurley and had Cox sniffed out early

[steveystuds06]

I'm sure I had negative posts about Dan after that Fordham loss. At that time, it was a devastating loss. That was also a few years into Dan's career at Rhody. Archie hasn't played a full season yet. I think he's had two poorly coached-games. Brown and Lasalle. It won't be his last. He's also had some of the most beautiful set plays I've seen as a Rhody fan.

I love the way Archie has handled Bray. The way he coaches kids on the sidelines is impressive. The complete opposite of coach Cox. I don't like the way he's handled Weston. But he's the expert. I'm not.

As much as this year has hurt I'm not going to overreact. It's wayyyy too early.

[RF1]

We could do that!

Take a look at how absolutely wrong some members were about Hurley:

Jim Baron 2.0

That thread should include some perspective. It was from December of 2016, early in Dan's fifth season at URI. That was supposed to be the big breakout season that had been delayed by an additional year with EC's season ending injury in the 2015 opener. The team had a lot of talent on the roster. At the time of the thread, URI was sitting at 5-3 after having just suffered back to back losses to Valpo and PC. With a remaining OOC game left at Houston (which they would lose), the necessary resume for at at large NCAA bid was not looking very promising at that specific time. Fortunately, URI did go on to have that big breakout season. It wasn't easy. The team went 13-5 in A-10 play but needed a big run in the conference tournament to make the NCAA tournament. Ended up winning three games in Pittsburgh to win the automatic bid with the committee chair indicating Rhody would still have been in the field had they the lost the championship game given the strong season finish (had gone 11-2 in the stretch before the final vs VCU) and tough schedule (OOC games vs Cinci, Duke, PC, Houston, and decent A-10 slate). Dan then followed that season up with an even better run the next year when the team was ranked nearly every week and an NCAA bid was a certainty. He then promptly left town and things have been mostly rough (save a season with a probable NIT bid lost to Covid) ever since with this year shaping up to be among the worst in the long history of the program.

[rjsuperfly66]

The interesting thing about rebuilding in the modern era is the impact (both good and bad) the portal can have on a rebuild. Prior to, look at Hurleys rebuild, you land all these transfers and they all had to sit for a year. That stalls some of the progress that could be made. At the same time, if you landed some promising freshmen, it was less likely they left because most guys didn't want to sit for a year unless it really wasn't working. In this modern era, it's hard to rely on just trying to recruit 4-year guys because it is more likely they blow up and leave. Transfers almost provide more certainty, in that if they've moved once, they might be less likely to move again due to the "threat" of having to sit. Who would have ever thought 10 years ago that teams should be recruiting about 50/50 transfers to 4-year guys? That's unheard of - Transfers used to be plug and play, that doesn't really work anymore.

[ElmCityRhody]

Wow there are some all time takes in there…and I only got to page 3 !!! Yikes

It was a tough wall to defend. But defend we did.

I nominate you and I for the Keaney Blue coaching committee. We defended the wall on Hurley and had Cox sniffed out early

indeed we did !

CUT BAIT !

[reef]

Put me in the optimistic group with Arch

DH went 8-21 year 1

Still think by the end of year 3 we are top 3-4 in the league

[RhodyKyle]

What a wild ride that was. Went right from the Fordham loss into the minority taking a victory lap. Nobody had thoughts on Hurley during the winning streak.

[RamStock]

Put me in the optimistic group with Arch

DH went 8-21 year 1

Still think by the end of year 3 we are top 3-4 in the league

Is year 3 going off Rhody72’s system where year 1 doesn’t starts until next year? The way this league is setup up only the top 2 have any chance at the tourney.

[Jersey77]

Put me in the optimistic group with Arch

DH went 8-21 year 1

Still think by the end of year 3 we are top 3-4 in the league

Is year 3 going off Rhody72’s system where year 1 doesn’t starts until next year? The way this league is setup up only the top 2 have any chance at the tourney.

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

[theblueram]

Put me in the optimistic group with Arch

DH went 8-21 year 1

Still think by the end of year 3 we are top 3-4 in the league

Is year 3 going off Rhody72’s system where year 1 doesn’t starts until next year? The way this league is setup up only the top 2 have any chance at the tourney.

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

I agree with this take, however, the players for year 4 Dancing are not on the team yet. So we shall see.

[Jersey77]

Is year 3 going off Rhody72’s system where year 1 doesn’t starts until next year? The way this league is setup up only the top 2 have any chance at the tourney.

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

I agree with this take, however, the players for year 4 Dancing are not on the team yet. So we shall see.

Our guards will be gone, but maybe Weston, Samb, and Foumena will be here and give us experienced leadership.
Who knows still too early to give up on Hutch and Rory.

[theblueram]

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

I agree with this take, however, the players for year 4 Dancing are not on the team yet. So we shall see.

Our guards will be gone, but maybe Weston, Samb, and Foumena will be here and give us experienced leadership.
Who knows still too early to give up on Hutch and Rory.

I've said many times, the recruiting class next October will define us.

[Jersey77]

I agree with this take, however, the players for year 4 Dancing are not on the team yet. So we shall see.

Our guards will be gone, but maybe Weston, Samb, and Foumena will be here and give us experienced leadership.
Who knows still too early to give up on Hutch and Rory.

I've said many times, the recruiting class next October will define us.

Early national signing day usually starts the 2nd Wednesday in November, so thinking 11/8 -11/15/23.

[reef]

Put me in the optimistic group with Arch

DH went 8-21 year 1

Still think by the end of year 3 we are top 3-4 in the league

Is year 3 going off Rhody72’s system where year 1 doesn’t starts until next year? The way this league is setup up only the top 2 have any chance at the tourney.

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

That’s a very reasonable timeline

[theblueram]

Our guards will be gone, but maybe Weston, Samb, and Foumena will be here and give us experienced leadership.
Who knows still too early to give up on Hutch and Rory.

I've said many times, the recruiting class next October will define us.

Early national signing day usually starts the 2nd Wednesday in November, so thinking 11/8 -11/15/23.

So that's when it will be. He had to scramble in March to put a team together and he signed a 2 quick recruits last October. Next October is the date I expect recruits.

[rjv]

I do not believe that the current team can get to 20 wins and NIT in year 3. First, there are currently only 2 scholarships available (remove KC and Harris) for year 3. Second, I believe that the fans base will not have the patience to wait 3 or 4 years for the team to improve.
Third, you can not compare Hurley to Miller because the rules have changed because of the transfer portal. So lets stop talking about what Hurley did here and that Miller is going to follow suit. Its all about building the team with recruits and transfers to compete each year. Some will leave or be told to leave and some will stay. That is the reality.
Fourth, all NCAA Fan Base want their teams winning now.

[Rhody72]

I recall we went to the NCAAT in DH's 4th year. This is about what I'm saying for the Archie era. I would argue that DH's program's year 1 team was further ahead than URI this season. At least the records seem to suggest that this is true. Archie could hit the jackpot in recruiting and exceed the progress of DH's program. Fanatics will believe this will happen and I hope that they are right. While I too will hope that URI will win every remaining game this year and years to come, I will remain a realist in measuring the success/failure of this era.

[Jersey77]

I recall we went to the NCAAT in DH's 4th year. This is about what I'm saying for the Archie era. I would argue that DH's program's year 1 team was further ahead than URI this season. At least the records seem to suggest that this is true. Archie could hit the jackpot in recruiting and exceed the progress of DH's program. Fanatics will believe this will happen and I hope that they are right. While I too will hope that URI will win every remaining game this year and years to come, I will remain a realist in measuring the success/failure of this era.

Hurley's 5th season was NCAAT.
His 4th year EC got injured and finished 17-15 (9-9 A10)

[RamStock]

Your first mistake is going off of 72's system.
Year 1 is now, period.
Year 2- I think we are mid-pack with maybe a 500 record.
Year 3- Feeling 20 wins and an NIT bid.
Year 4- Hopefully go "Dancing",

I agree with this take, however, the players for year 4 Dancing are not on the team yet. So we shall see.

Our guards will be gone, but maybe Weston, Samb, and Foumena will be here and give us experienced leadership.
Who knows still too early to give up on Hutch and Rory.

Other than Weston and Samb I hope the other guys are not here as we will need their scholarships to recruit much better talent then we currently have. You are probably spot on in terms of the best case scenario for this team in the future, but not too many people including myself get excited about a possible NIT bid in a few years. No one cares about that tournament which is reflected in the attendance across all NIT games. The key to everything is the players that are not currently on the roster.

[TruePoint]

In my opinion college basketball is not as easy to project out multiple years as people here are saying. I was one of the first ones out on this season’s team and I’m not especially bullish on any particular player currently on the roster growing into the best player on a tournament team - so we’re all on the same page there, more or less.

Where I think I differ from some other posters is that you really don’t know much about future years - obviously we don’t know who will be on the roster that currently isn’t, but we also don’t know what some of the guys that are here will end up being. I think it’s impossible to project what players will develop into based on what we’ve seen this year. Most of our young players would be bit players with small roles on a good team, but they’ve been forced into action early and as a result a lot of the flaws in their games have been exposed in ways that they wouldn’t be in more limited roles. It’s customary for college basketball players to develop into larger roles throughout their four years; in our situation, maybe their roles actually shrink slightly in some cases as more talent is brought in but their effectiveness and productivity could still improve.

I also think there will be improvements year over year as guys spend more and more time in Archie’s system, even if you assumed the talent level would be a constant each year (which, for the record, I do not).

I am not predicting or guaranteeing anything - good or bad. I’m just of the opinion that we don’t have any actual idea how it’s going to play out. I don’t think any of us can know based on what we’ve seen to this point if we are two years away, four years away, or if we’ll never get there. Things can change quickly.

[section(105)]

……”I know there a lot of unknowns…….”

[rambone 78]

We will be better next season and even better the following season. How much better will depend on many factors which all have been discussed here. I hope we are at least contending for an NCAA berth by year 3. Maybe that's asking too much, we will see. Archie will likely have to change his approach to building a team due to the changed landscape of college BB. How well he adapts will determine this programs level of success.

[ramster]

Why spend so much time and effort predicting when we will be good, when we will make the NIT, when we will make the NCAA when the HC himself has given no indication?

“We will be good when we are good.”
That’s it
No timeline
Just trust the guy. All you can do.

[Rhody72]

We trusted Baron for 11 years and got no NCAAT trips. We are paying Archie a lot of money to get us back to the NCAAT within N years. For me the N=5 before we pull the plug and move on. I also believe that N=5 is too long to be repeated in the future. But, this is how long I will trust in Archie. If N=3, then we should extend him and give him a raise.

[ramster]

So what are Miller’s Goals as provided by his boss?
Understand what your saying 72, but it’s not your call

“We will be good when we are good”

That’s it right there. Everybody loves that phrase.

[NYGFan_Section208]

“We will be good when we are good”

That’s it right there. Everybody loves that phrase.

Uh, no they don't...?

[PeteRI]

5 years until we dance? I'm retired and on a fixed income. Not sure I can hold out hope - and my 2 season tickets - that long. Boy Cox really did drive this program right off the f##king bridge.

[ramster]

“We will be good when we are good”

That’s it right there. Everybody loves that phrase.

Uh, no they don't...?

It was sarcasm
I disliked the phrase from day 1, minute I heard it.

[section(105)]

I was never good at algebra, so then N= this and that is meaningless for me. As long as I see greater basketball talent enrolling at URI I can trust the process and the course Archie has plotted. I don’t think Archie came with micro wave instructions. That talent translating to a steady increase in record. I never expected that quick turnaround from the Cox mess. Long in the tooth, not many NCAA runs left for me. I am hangin in their for the long haul. Did I think we would have been better this season than we are? Yes. Go Rhody

[ramster]

That’s the approach. When it happens it happens. Relax.

[Jersey77]

That’s the approach. When it happens it happens. Relax.

The question is who gets to the NCAAT first, us or UMass?
Since many consider them our biggest A10 rival and in proximity closest conference school.
Also neighboring state universities.
Most important both schools made so called "splash" hires after last season.

[ramster]

That’s the approach. When it happens it happens. Relax.

The question is who gets to the NCAAT first, us or UMass?
Since many consider them our biggest A10 rival and in proximity closest conference school.
Also neighboring state universities.
Most important both schools made so called "splash" hires after last season.

Why does it matter?

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

……”I know there a lot of unknowns…….”

"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know."

-Donald Rumsfeld

[Jersey77]

That’s the approach. When it happens it happens. Relax.

The question is who gets to the NCAAT first, us or UMass?
Since many consider them our biggest A10 rival and in proximity closest conference school.
Also neighboring state universities.
Most important both schools made so called "splash" hires after last season.

Why does it matter?

It is all just entertainment, just like this board is.
To me it is about bragging rights with our neighboring rival.

Many earlier on, were making comparisons about both coaching hires and who would bring the most long-term success.

[RIFan]

If it takes 5 years to get to an NCAA then I would say that was a failure, purely from the standpoint that it shouldn’t take that long with a proven coach who you went all in on. Now, if it does take 5 years, but then we go to 4 in the next 5 years I think we will all be happy…but 5 years is a long time to wait and would be very disappointing.