Rhody vs Bryant

[Rhody_NYCT]

With Bryant's program on the rise and plans for their new arena etc...it would be cool if we had a tradition of playing PC, Brown and Bryant every season. It would add a decent OOC game to the schedule (with basically no travel), and possibly create another fun rivalry game.

[Rhody15]

Bryant would be a local game, not a rivalry game.

I don’t view Brown as a rival, and I would guess 99% of people here don’t either.

But yes, if they continue on an upward trajectory, a continuing game with these wouldn’t be the worst idea.

[Rhodymob05]

Bryant would be a local game, not a rivalry game.

I don’t view Brown as a rival, and I would guess 99% of people here don’t either.

But yes, if they continue on an upward trajectory, a continuing game with these wouldn’t be the worst idea.

Football-wise, yes. Basketball-wise, no.

[rjsuperfly66]

Bryant has long been on record (First under O'Shea and now Grasso) that they prefer more lucrative buy games. PC and URI have looked for less expensive buy cost due to proximity (I.e - there is not really a significant travel expense because they can drive down 95), which is not attractive to these programs who want the big paydays.

[theblueram]

Sorry, Brown is enough. No way we need to travel to that gym for a game. We buy teams in that conference.

[Rhody72]

Bryant will become a more competitive opponent than Brown in basketball. We should play both but in alternating years at the RC.

[RF1]

While Bryant is a local, it is not a long time historic rival such as the case with Brown and PC. I therefore don't think URI should have to play Bryant every year. I also think that given there is no long association, Bryant should be treated by URI like other members of the America East (several of which have far more history with URI) which would mean no games on their campus. Given the school is in RI, it would however be nice to see it on the schedule more often than not. If Bryant prefers to go elsewhere for bigger payouts as has been the case in recent years, that is their prerogative. I would however extend them an offer to come to Kingston most years should they want.

[ramster]

PC refuses to play both to them, and both schools are closer to PC than URI is.

[rjsuperfly66]

PC refuses to play both to them, and both schools are closer to PC than URI is.

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

[ramster]

PC refuses to play both to them, and both schools are closer to PC than URI is.

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

What does that mean? URI plays Brown Home and Home. There is no payout that I know of. Why doesn't PC do home-home games with either school?

[Dino611]

PC refuses to play both to them, and both schools are closer to PC than URI is.

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

What does that mean? URI plays Brown Home and Home. There is no payout that I know of. Why doesn't PC do home-home games with either school?

Because ever since they lost to them and nearly lost to them in 2017 , they want easier matchups

[ramster]

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

What does that mean? URI plays Brown Home and Home. There is no payout that I know of. Why doesn't PC do home-home games with either school?

Because ever since they lost to them and nearly lost to them in 2017 , they want easier matchups

I have seen that mentioned on the Friar Board. Cooley’s afraid to play them.

[Rhody_NYCT]

Some people have mentioned that there isn't a rivalry, but that's mostly because Bryant has only been a D1 basketball school for 10 years. What I am saying is that, since Bryant is now on the rise as a program, moving to a better conference, and building arena etc...maybe it can become a rivalry game and be a little more of an interesting game than some of the early season OOC games that we play against random schools to fill out the schedule. Sort of the way the Big 5 (Philly) always play each other...it might be cool if there was a little rivalry between all of the local D1 programs. I understand why we might not be interested, but it could generate a little extra buzz early in the season.

[rjsuperfly66]

PC refuses to play both to them, and both schools are closer to PC than URI is.

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

What does that mean? URI plays Brown Home and Home. There is no payout that I know of. Why doesn't PC do home-home games with either school?

Why would PC play a home-and-home with either of them? How many power conference schools play home-and-homes with low majors?

They've tried to schedule them. They aren't paying them a full payout like they are getting by traveling to Duke, UNC, Michigan, Syracuse, etc. They aren't paying them 6-figures to drive 15-20 mins down the highway.

[ramster]

Correction - PC refuses to max pay them both.

What does that mean? URI plays Brown Home and Home. There is no payout that I know of. Why doesn't PC do home-home games with either school?

Why would PC play a home-and-home with either of them? How many power conference schools play home-and-homes with low majors?

They've tried to schedule them. They aren't paying them a full payout like they are getting by traveling to Duke, UNC, Michigan, Syracuse, etc.

I think we are agreeing.
PC refuses to play both Bryant and Brown - right? Where do we disagree? It's simple. Whether it's home-home or the game is at PC only - PC refuses to play Bryant and Brown

[rjsuperfly66]

But we aren't agreeing - PC has not outright refused to play Brown or Bryant. They've just been very clear they aren't paying them what they would get to actually have to travel somewhere to play a game. I've been told URI has taken the same stance with Bryant. Not sure the affection for the game against Brown...

[ramster]

So it's just money, otherwise PC would play Bryant? How much of a money gap is there that PC is turning them down? First I had heard this.

[damram]

For URI, it is tradition with Brown. With Bryant, the Bulldogs want bigger paydays.

[rhodylaw]

Rhody should have home and home with Brown, Bryant and PC every year.

[theblueram]

So how much would Bryant buy us for?

[ramster]

For URI, it is tradition with Brown. With Bryant, the Bulldogs want bigger paydays.

How big?

[theblueram]

For URI, it is tradition with Brown. With Bryant, the Bulldogs want bigger paydays.

How big?

I'm guessing Bryant gets paid about $100k

[ramster]

For URI, it is tradition with Brown. With Bryant, the Bulldogs want bigger paydays.

How big?

I'm guessing Bryant gets paid about $100k

So Cooley makes likely $4 million a year with his new contract. That’s small potatoes to get Bryant to come in the Dunk.

[rjsuperfly66]

How big?

I'm guessing Bryant gets paid about $100k

So Cooley makes likely $4 million a year with his new contract. That’s small potatoes to get Bryant to come in the Dunk.

The point is that if a school is getting $100k to travel across the country to play at... say UCLA... pay for airfare, busses, hotels, food, etc., then what prudent financial decision would it be to pay them the same amount to drive 20 mins down the road, not require hotel/airfare, etc. Doesn't matter what the coach gets paid, and it's not about the money, because ultimately they are paying another team in its place. I think the point is that the schools are choosing to maximize their buy game revenue, which is certainly their right, but it doesn't mean a school should also reward them/pay them that premium for it...

[ramster]

I'm guessing Bryant gets paid about $100k

So Cooley makes likely $4 million a year with his new contract. That’s small potatoes to get Bryant to come in the Dunk.

The point is that if a school is getting $100k to travel across the country to play at... say UCLA... pay for airfare, busses, hotels, food, etc., then what prudent financial decision would it be to pay them the same amount to drive 20 mins down the road, not require hotel/airfare, etc. Doesn't matter what the coach gets paid, and it's not about the money, because ultimately they are paying another team in its place. I think the point is that the schools are choosing to maximize their buy game revenue, which is certainly their right, but it doesn't mean a school should also reward them/pay them that premium for it...

So you are saying the ONLY reason Cooley is choosing to not play Bryant in the Dunk is because Bryant is asking for too much money?

I think Cooley just doesn’t want to play them. I’d bet Cooley wouldn’t play Bryant in the Dunk if there was zero cost. Cooley doesn’t want any part of Brown (he list two games to them) or Bryant and really dislikes the URI series as well.

Contrast that to Villanova who will play @ St Joseph’s, LaSalle, Pennsylvania and @ Temple. No hesitation on Villanova’s part to keep the Big5 series going - not even a hint to make games every other year.

Never happen but URI, PC, BC, Boston College, Bryant, Brown…..could create a local series for New England interest. It was great in the 1970’s when the Bew England rankings were a hot topic and New England basketball was at a high level. Then it went out the window. Respect to the Philly schools. BE, A10, Ivy and AAC.

Villanova doesn’t rest up for the BE Conference either:

LaSalle
@ Temple
Delaware State
@ Michigan State
Iowa State in Portland
Phil Knight Invitational - UNC, Portland, UCONN, Oregon, Alabama, Michigan State
Phil Knight Invitational
Oklahoma in Philly Wells Fargo Center
Pennsylvania
Boston College
@ St Joseph’s

Like John Chaney - “I’ll play anyone, anywhere, anytime” Need more Head Coaches like Chaney in College Basketball today. Not afraid of anybody.

[theblueram]

So Cooley makes likely $4 million a year with his new contract. That’s small potatoes to get Bryant to come in the Dunk.

The point is that if a school is getting $100k to travel across the country to play at... say UCLA... pay for airfare, busses, hotels, food, etc., then what prudent financial decision would it be to pay them the same amount to drive 20 mins down the road, not require hotel/airfare, etc. Doesn't matter what the coach gets paid, and it's not about the money, because ultimately they are paying another team in its place. I think the point is that the schools are choosing to maximize their buy game revenue, which is certainly their right, but it doesn't mean a school should also reward them/pay them that premium for it...

So you are saying the ONLY reason Cooley is choosing to not play Bryant in the Dunk is because Bryant is asking for too much money?

Probably. They play St.Peters at the dunk so Bryant fits in that category.

[rjsuperfly66]

So Cooley makes likely $4 million a year with his new contract. That’s small potatoes to get Bryant to come in the Dunk.

The point is that if a school is getting $100k to travel across the country to play at... say UCLA... pay for airfare, busses, hotels, food, etc., then what prudent financial decision would it be to pay them the same amount to drive 20 mins down the road, not require hotel/airfare, etc. Doesn't matter what the coach gets paid, and it's not about the money, because ultimately they are paying another team in its place. I think the point is that the schools are choosing to maximize their buy game revenue, which is certainly their right, but it doesn't mean a school should also reward them/pay them that premium for it...

So you are saying the ONLY reason Cooley is choosing to not play Bryant in the Dunk is because Bryant is asking for too much money?

I have heard for many years starting with O'Shea there were conversations between the programs where O'Shea discussed the importance of the buy games to the program and his preference to maximize the revenue unless nothing else materializes. Since I have heard it from both PC and URI people I absolutely assume it to be true.

[SGreenwell]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

[ramster]

Buy game info

https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/ ... buy-games/

[RhowdyRam02]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

Are we not paying Quinnipiac, Texas State, Stony Brook, Army, and UMass Lowell? I assumed if we weren't returning the game we were paying the other team

[rjsuperfly66]

URI (or PC) are absolutely paying those programs... but that doesn't eliminate the fact there is a difference between driving 15 min (a little longer for URI) down the road to play a game, versus having to pay for a flight (or extended bus ride), accommodations for players/staff, 2 days of road meals, etc. If Bryant gets $100k to play at Michigan, and says "Give us the $100k instead and we'll play you," you are ultimately paying them a premium since I would almost guarantee Bryant would be driving to the arena and driving home on the university bus, making their only real expense the gas to drive down. If they play at Michigan, they are paying for flights for all players and staff, transportation when there, food when there, a night of hotel, etc. So the real question is - would you rather pay the $100k for Bryant knowing it's a premium, or $100k for another program who actually has to take on the travel expense? And if you do it once, aren't they always going to expect it? I know there is likely some creative accounting on the buy-team end, so they aren't feeling much brunt in travel expenses, but still worth noting.

[ramster]

URI (or PC) are absolutely paying those programs... but that doesn't eliminate the fact there is a difference between driving 15 min (a little longer for URI) down the road to play a game, versus having to pay for a flight (or extended bus ride), accommodations for players/staff, 2 days of road meals, etc. If Bryant gets $100k to play at Michigan, and says "Give us the $100k instead and we'll play you," you are ultimately paying them a premium since I would almost guarantee Bryant would be driving to the arena and driving home on the university bus, making their only real expense the gas to drive down. If they play at Michigan, they are paying for flights for all players and staff, transportation when there, food when there, a night of hotel, etc. So the real question is - would you rather pay the $100k for Bryant knowing it's a premium, or $100k for another program who actually has to take on the travel expense? And if you do it once, aren't they always going to expect it? I know there is likely some creative accounting on the buy-team end, so they aren't feeling much brunt in travel expenses, but still worth noting.

All buy games are not the same cost. Just like in Football they are not all the same. URI got Bryant cheaper than they would like you because of the proximity. But all buy games are negotiated between the two schools.

[ramster]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

Greenwell,
Are you serious? You think we shouldn’t be paying anyone to come to Kingston? You honestly believe these teams come to the Ryan Venter for free?

If URI doesn’t have a home-home arrangement then it’s a buy game.

Boston College
PC
Brown
Georgia State
Milwaukee
Are all home and home with PC and Brown ongoing series



Quinnipiac
Texas State
Stony Brook
Army
UMASS Lowell
are all buy games. The prices may vary but not by much. Usually cost is about $70k to $90k. But they sure ain’t free.

[ramster]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

Are we not paying Quinnipiac, Texas State, Stony Brook, Army, and UMass Lowell? I assumed if we weren't returning the game we were paying the other team

We are paying the teams to come to URI. Always have. As long as it’s not home-home agreement.

People think it’s hard to get teams to play at URI now, imagine trying to get teams in without paying them.

[rjsuperfly66]

URI (or PC) are absolutely paying those programs... but that doesn't eliminate the fact there is a difference between driving 15 min (a little longer for URI) down the road to play a game, versus having to pay for a flight (or extended bus ride), accommodations for players/staff, 2 days of road meals, etc. If Bryant gets $100k to play at Michigan, and says "Give us the $100k instead and we'll play you," you are ultimately paying them a premium since I would almost guarantee Bryant would be driving to the arena and driving home on the university bus, making their only real expense the gas to drive down. If they play at Michigan, they are paying for flights for all players and staff, transportation when there, food when there, a night of hotel, etc. So the real question is - would you rather pay the $100k for Bryant knowing it's a premium, or $100k for another program who actually has to take on the travel expense? And if you do it once, aren't they always going to expect it? I know there is likely some creative accounting on the buy-team end, so they aren't feeling much brunt in travel expenses, but still worth noting.

All buy games are not the same cost. Just like in Football they are not all the same. URI got Bryant cheaper than they would like you because of the proximity. But all buy games are negotiated between the two schools.

I'm aware of that. My point is that I know for a fact under Tim O'Shea he told both PC and URI he did not desire cheaper buy games because the buy game revenue was so important to their bottom-line, so he was not willing to take much by way of a "local discount." And my understanding is the same practice has continued with Grasso once he got the ball rolling. They'd rather go after 6-figure payouts than take 60-70% to stay local.

[ramster]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

We do the same as PC does.

7 Buy games this year for PC:
Rider
Northeastern
Stonehill
Merrimack
Columbia
Manhattan
Albany

1 Home-home for PC
URI

Other 3 games are hall of Fame Tip Off Tournament and BE-Big12 Battle

[ramster]

URI (or PC) are absolutely paying those programs... but that doesn't eliminate the fact there is a difference between driving 15 min (a little longer for URI) down the road to play a game, versus having to pay for a flight (or extended bus ride), accommodations for players/staff, 2 days of road meals, etc. If Bryant gets $100k to play at Michigan, and says "Give us the $100k instead and we'll play you," you are ultimately paying them a premium since I would almost guarantee Bryant would be driving to the arena and driving home on the university bus, making their only real expense the gas to drive down. If they play at Michigan, they are paying for flights for all players and staff, transportation when there, food when there, a night of hotel, etc. So the real question is - would you rather pay the $100k for Bryant knowing it's a premium, or $100k for another program who actually has to take on the travel expense? And if you do it once, aren't they always going to expect it? I know there is likely some creative accounting on the buy-team end, so they aren't feeling much brunt in travel expenses, but still worth noting.

All buy games are not the same cost. Just like in Football they are not all the same. URI got Bryant cheaper than they would like you because of the proximity. But all buy games are negotiated between the two schools.

I'm aware of that. My point is that I know for a fact under Tim O'Shea he told both PC and URI he did not desire cheaper buy games because the buy game revenue was so important to their bottom-line, so he was not willing to take much by way of a "local discount." And my understanding is the same practice has continued with Grasso once he got the ball rolling. They'd rather go after 6-figure payouts than take 60-70% to stay local.

Makes sense RJ.
Only reason Bryant played URI last year was because it was part of the Daytona Tournament. It wasn’t a buy game for URI but URI did get the home court.

[ramster]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

We do the same as PC does.

7 Buy games this year for PC:
Rider
Northeastern
Stonehill
Merrimack
Columbia
Manhattan
Albany

1 Home-home for PC
URI

Other 3 games are hall of Fame Tip Off Tournament and BE-Big12 Battle

It doesn't matter what a teams NET Ranking (RPI is no longer used) even the 353rd Ranked NET team is going to get paid to play in the Ryan Center if it's not a Home-home agreement

[Blue Man]

Sorry, Brown is enough. No way we need to travel to that gym for a game. We buy teams in that conference.

Yeah but it gives us a boost in quadrants - it's traditionally a Q3 game on the road and a Q4 at home.

[RhowdyRam02]

Sorry, Brown is enough. No way we need to travel to that gym for a game. We buy teams in that conference.

Yeah but it gives us a boost in quadrants - it's traditionally a Q3 game on the road and a Q4 at home.

Yup. It gives you an away game where you should be able to take over the gym with our own fans, makes it easier for northern RI and MA fans to make a game, and it's better for the quadrants. If you're going to play them at home for a quadrant 4 game I don't see why not play them on the road for a quadrant 3

[SGreenwell]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

Are we not paying Quinnipiac, Texas State, Stony Brook, Army, and UMass Lowell? I assumed if we weren't returning the game we were paying the other team

I suppose I should have clarified that it's fine if we're paying some smaller, nominal fee, as opposed to $250k. I'd also argue that in NCAA years, the difference between a W against most of those teams and just not playing a game is probably nil because of how bad they are. The NET of each last year - Quinnipiac (231), Stony Brook (232), Army (279), UMass Lowell (247). Bryant was at 205 even though they made the NCAA tournament. None of those wins would be impressive for an NCAA resume, so I certainly hope we're not paying any of those teams six figures to come to Kingston.

(Texas State is probably unfairly getting lumped in here because their "name value" isn't great, but they've had winning teams for 4 straight years, and their NET was 127, better than us and Boston College. That's a legitimately decent although unsexy OOC game.)

[ramster]

Yeah - If Bryant wants to get paid, they can go pound sand. If we're not paying the other team, I prefer a game with Bryant - or Brown - over bringing in UMass-Lowell or UNH or some other New England school. But all of these games are mostly with teams that are going to finish with 200+ RPIs, and especially in rebuilding seasons, we shouldn't be paying anyone to come to Kingston.

Are we not paying Quinnipiac, Texas State, Stony Brook, Army, and UMass Lowell? I assumed if we weren't returning the game we were paying the other team

I suppose I should have clarified that it's fine if we're paying some smaller, nominal fee, as opposed to $250k. I'd also argue that in NCAA years, the difference between a W against most of those teams and just not playing a game is probably nil because of how bad they are. The NET of each last year - Quinnipiac (231), Stony Brook (232), Army (279), UMass Lowell (247). Bryant was at 205 even though they made the NCAA tournament. None of those wins would be impressive for an NCAA resume, so I certainly hope we're not paying any of those teams six figures to come to Kingston.

(Texas State is probably unfairly getting lumped in here because their "name value" isn't great, but they've had winning teams for 4 straight years, and their NET was 127, better than us and Boston College. That's a legitimately decent although unsexy OOC game.)

Typical is $70k to $90k. Nobody gets $250k
Nothing new here. We have been paying teams of this caliber to come here all century.
PC does the same thing, all mid majors do basically the same thing.

Texas State is from the Sunbelt. Georgia State won the Sunbelt AQ last year. Texas Stste is a good opponent.

At any rate, Archie Miller’s first Schedule.

If buyout costs and games are a concern they can play into why conferences have gone from what used to be 16 games to 18, to 20 and now there is talk of some considering 22 games. Matter of time before the A10 goes to 20.

[rhodyrudder]

A tourney might be fun, once every four years...

I'm really not getting excited ever for either school.

Would much rather see bigger tourneys, bigger teams, big-time feel and if we don't play Brown or Bryant...wgas?

Definitely not into home-and-homes...

Don't feel like paying them either.

Cooley's wrong about a lot of things, but not this.

[Blue Man]

A tourney might be fun, once every four years...

I'm really not getting excited ever for either school.

Would much rather see bigger tourneys, bigger teams, big-time feel and if we don't play Brown or Bryant...wgas?

Definitely not into home-and-homes...

Don't feel like paying them either.

Cooley's wrong about a lot of things, but not this.

I think tourneys are the most important part of the OOC to be honest. You're getting an opportunity at a better team than you'd typically see, with an RPI boost for any of the crap teams you'll run into.

From a team perspective - you're traveling for an extended period of time with your guys and no distractions, phenomenal teambuilding.

From a fan perspective, it's awesome, go somewhere cool and nothing but boozing and basketball.

[rhodyrudder]

Talkin bout an in-state tourney, like the beanpot...

Right on with traveling somewhere nice every year!

[reef]

Not really in to playing Bryant or even Brown too often maybe once every few years to fill out the schedule but not an every year thing like PC

[Blue Man]

Not really in to playing Bryant or even Brown too often maybe once every few years to fill out the schedule but not an every year thing like PC

Oh I'm 100% that we should play both every year.

We get crap teams coming in all the time. Local means more fans in the stands and more money for the University.

That said, I think a tourney would be cool too - but you'd have to make it PC/URI and Brown/Bryant with the winners playing each other. It would add some juice to a game vs Bryant or Brown. Nothing will ever take away from PC/URI, so I don't think it matters that a "trophy" isn't on the line.

Logistically it makes sense. You set the "championship" and "3rd place" games at the RC or Dunk based on where the PC/URI game was, and then winners play and losers play.

I'm in.

[steveystuds06]

I want to play Bryant every year as long as Grasso keeps killing it. I think they would beat us this year, or it would be very close.

[hrstrat57]

^
Local games = local buzz

A great thing.

[Jersey77]

I want to play Bryant every year as long as Grasso keeps killing it. I think they would beat us this year, or it would be very close.

Agreed, I have no problem with having Bryant on our schedule.

I think they overtake Vermont this season in the AEC.