Understanding the NIL

[Rhody83]

I posted these hypothetical questions to the KB crew in the transfer thread but, I think they apply here, too.

If the current transfer/NIL environment continues for the foreseeable future without any regulation, then why would universities continue to offer scholly’s? Why not just eventually provide an NIL agreement to athletes and, if they want an education also, then adjust the NIL accordingly to include tuition?

The NIL agreements are not between the athletes and the university. They are between the athlete and a company(ies).
The university will need to offer the athlete everything it does today or the athlete will pick a competing university with their associated NIL deal.

[Rhody83]

That’s an interesting question: do you have to be on scholarship to be eligible to receive NIL money? If not, that’s a huge loophole that rich programs could exploit to have 30-man basketball rosters theoretically.

Walk-ons are eligible for NIL.
That said, your scenario is extreme and while possible, don’t think there is much basis in reality.
I don’t suspect you’ll see a super team with 25 guys all making 5 figures - not sure a booster would spend much on the 6th man, forget the 25th man.
It’s the top guys getting the bigger contracts… everyone else gets the scraps.

I agree you won’t see a super team with 25 guys. I disagree that not much will be spent on the 6th man. Kentucky will have 10 players making $100,000 or more next year. Remember the big time schools are going to pool money from all supporters big and small into a company and distribute that to all players. One donor for Miami said his budget is $10 million/year but they can go over that amount. That’s just one donor. Miami just tapped a second donor to keep Wong.

[bigappleram]

It already wasn’t a level playing field.

This unregulated, booster funded spending bubble will only drive a larger gap between the haves and the have nots. If left unchecked A10 schools simply won’t have the resources to compete and it will turn into the minor and major leagues.

[TruePoint]

Not easy.

But there are many good players out there.
Keeping them will be more difficult.

I have skipped this thread mostly and am just reading it now, and only got about 4 posts in before I saw something I wanted to jump in on. So sorry if this point has been in the 80+ posts since.

But the reality is that A10-level teams will mostly not be competing with the blue blood schools for players under the NIL system, the exact same way we were not competing for the very very top players in the old system. Once this market matures and finds its level, we will be back in a situation where the only players getting ridiculous NIL money will be guys headed straight for the lottery anyways. There are a lot of very good college basketball players out there and I find it hard to believe that there will be enough money to go around that guys will be getting six figures to sit on the very far end of the bench at West Virginia or whatever. Mostly, the net result here is that all the money hovering around programs will get redirected from infrastructure improvements and amenities directly to the kids, ending one arms race and starting another. But the haves and have-nots will be relatively unchanged and teams like URI will compete the same way as they have for a long time: can our experienced but perhaps slightly less talented players beat your lottery-bound and übertalented 18 year olds when the chips are down? We’ve seen in college basketball for decades that the answer to that is “maybe, sometimes” and we can still have magical march runs from high majors but in all likelihood those will not end with a national championship. Same as it ever was.

TP, I respect your opinion, however, you need to read more on this topic. It’s not just going to be the lottery pick players believe me. The combination of the NILs and the no sit transfer rule will dramatically change college basketball if it remains unregulated as it is today. This has the potential to explode over the next 2-4 years. Left unattended there will be two tiers very wide apart in D1 college basketball. The “Pro” schools and the “Amateur” schools.

A few points to think about. Every scholarship player on Kentucky has a significant NIL. The prediction is they will all get $100,000/year or more next year. The top player at UK is expected to get $2 million. A PG from KState that virtually no one outside the Big12 knew of before he entered the portal just got $400,000/year. He isn’t a lottery pick. He isn’t the best player on Miami. Bryce Hopkins held up transferring to PC until they guaranteed they could match the NIL money he was getting at UK. In football every OLinemen on Alabama gets $50,000 per year. The examples go on and on……

As I alluded to, I think it might take a few years for this to all settle into a sustainable place. Eventually the market will mature and things will find their natural level. With all due respect to us and other similarly situated programs, who cares what is happening at Kentucky and Alabama football? We were not competing with those schools for players before, so what has changed? You could argue that if the 12th man on Kentucky is making 100k then that is taking a player that would be playing somewhere else out of the pool and will have trickle down effects throughout college basketball. I’m skeptical. First, a kid would have to decide that deal is worth it to him, and second someone is going to need to write that check and they’re going to have to decide that deal is worth it to them, too. Maybe we’ll see a little of that at the outset, but again my prediction is that the market will normalize over time and will behave quasi-rationally as other markets do.

[bigappleram]

I have skipped this thread mostly and am just reading it now, and only got about 4 posts in before I saw something I wanted to jump in on. So sorry if this point has been in the 80+ posts since.

But the reality is that A10-level teams will mostly not be competing with the blue blood schools for players under the NIL system, the exact same way we were not competing for the very very top players in the old system. Once this market matures and finds its level, we will be back in a situation where the only players getting ridiculous NIL money will be guys headed straight for the lottery anyways. There are a lot of very good college basketball players out there and I find it hard to believe that there will be enough money to go around that guys will be getting six figures to sit on the very far end of the bench at West Virginia or whatever. Mostly, the net result here is that all the money hovering around programs will get redirected from infrastructure improvements and amenities directly to the kids, ending one arms race and starting another. But the haves and have-nots will be relatively unchanged and teams like URI will compete the same way as they have for a long time: can our experienced but perhaps slightly less talented players beat your lottery-bound and übertalented 18 year olds when the chips are down? We’ve seen in college basketball for decades that the answer to that is “maybe, sometimes” and we can still have magical march runs from high majors but in all likelihood those will not end with a national championship. Same as it ever was.

TP, I respect your opinion, however, you need to read more on this topic. It’s not just going to be the lottery pick players believe me. The combination of the NILs and the no sit transfer rule will dramatically change college basketball if it remains unregulated as it is today. This has the potential to explode over the next 2-4 years. Left unattended there will be two tiers very wide apart in D1 college basketball. The “Pro” schools and the “Amateur” schools.

A few points to think about. Every scholarship player on Kentucky has a significant NIL. The prediction is they will all get $100,000/year or more next year. The top player at UK is expected to get $2 million. A PG from KState that virtually no one outside the Big12 knew of before he entered the portal just got $400,000/year. He isn’t a lottery pick. He isn’t the best player on Miami. Bryce Hopkins held up transferring to PC until they guaranteed they could match the NIL money he was getting at UK. In football every OLinemen on Alabama gets $50,000 per year. The examples go on and on……

As I alluded to, I think it might take a few years for this to all settle into a sustainable place. Eventually the market will mature and things will find their natural level. With all due respect to us and other similarly situated programs, who cares what is happening at Kentucky and Alabama football? We were not competing with those schools for players before, so what has changed? You could argue that if the 12th man on Kentucky is making 100k then that is taking a player that would be playing somewhere else out of the pool and will have trickle down effects throughout college basketball. I’m skeptical. First, a kid would have to decide that deal is worth it to him, and second someone is going to need to write that check and they’re going to have to decide that deal is worth it to them, too. Maybe we’ll see a little of that at the outset, but again my prediction is that the market will normalize over time and will behave quasi-rationally as other markets do.

I’m not sure it’s a real market tho. Did the market really dictate that practice facilities needed to have barber shops and bowling alleys in them? It seems more like an unregulated arms race where overzealous wealthy donors and sports agents have the greatest power.

[Rhody83]

Croswell’s NIL

[Jdrums#3]

I posted these hypothetical questions to the KB crew in the transfer thread but, I think they apply here, too.

If the current transfer/NIL environment continues for the foreseeable future without any regulation, then why would universities continue to offer scholly’s? Why not just eventually provide an NIL agreement to athletes and, if they want an education also, then adjust the NIL accordingly to include tuition?

The NIL agreements are not between the athletes and the university. They are between the athlete and a company(ies).
The university will need to offer the athlete everything it does today or the athlete will pick a competing university with their associated NIL deal.

I understand what you are saying, 83. But, couldn’t it be construed that these companies are acting on behalf of the university to guarantee or close or confirm a recruit signing and therefore, acting as agents for the university?

Or, does the fact that the agreement is for say, appearances for a company, nullify a possible agency relation between the company providing the money and the university?

I think what I am trying to unravel is if there are possible legal pitfalls from this for any of the three parties - athlete, university or booster(which could be an individual, company or collective in this instance) or potential legal challenges like, from a labor standpoint, for example. Also for my own interest, I am trying to follow the tea leaves to anticipate potential unintended consequences or changes to the future of college basketball. It is all an interesting thought exercise for me and helps me keep my mind from turning to mush.

The NIL and portal developments are fascinating. I appreciate your feedback, as well as the others who patiently answer my questions.

[TruePoint]

TP, I respect your opinion, however, you need to read more on this topic. It’s not just going to be the lottery pick players believe me. The combination of the NILs and the no sit transfer rule will dramatically change college basketball if it remains unregulated as it is today. This has the potential to explode over the next 2-4 years. Left unattended there will be two tiers very wide apart in D1 college basketball. The “Pro” schools and the “Amateur” schools.

A few points to think about. Every scholarship player on Kentucky has a significant NIL. The prediction is they will all get $100,000/year or more next year. The top player at UK is expected to get $2 million. A PG from KState that virtually no one outside the Big12 knew of before he entered the portal just got $400,000/year. He isn’t a lottery pick. He isn’t the best player on Miami. Bryce Hopkins held up transferring to PC until they guaranteed they could match the NIL money he was getting at UK. In football every OLinemen on Alabama gets $50,000 per year. The examples go on and on……

As I alluded to, I think it might take a few years for this to all settle into a sustainable place. Eventually the market will mature and things will find their natural level. With all due respect to us and other similarly situated programs, who cares what is happening at Kentucky and Alabama football? We were not competing with those schools for players before, so what has changed? You could argue that if the 12th man on Kentucky is making 100k then that is taking a player that would be playing somewhere else out of the pool and will have trickle down effects throughout college basketball. I’m skeptical. First, a kid would have to decide that deal is worth it to him, and second someone is going to need to write that check and they’re going to have to decide that deal is worth it to them, too. Maybe we’ll see a little of that at the outset, but again my prediction is that the market will normalize over time and will behave quasi-rationally as other markets do.

I’m not sure it’s a real market tho. Did the market really dictate that practice facilities needed to have barber shops and bowling alleys in them? It seems more like an unregulated arms race where overzealous wealthy donors and sports agents have the greatest power.

That’s why I said quasi-rationally. I’m not expecting the NIL to fix the imbalance in college basketball, but the imbalance already existed. Before, the “have” programs differentiated themselves with facilities, mainly because the money was out there wanting to be spent and it had to go somewhere. Doing that stuff was an outlet for it because they weren’t allowed to just give it directly to the players. This just removed the pretense and now the donors can do what they wanted to do in the first place. All of this won’t make it better obviously, I’m just not sure it’s going to make it worse to the degree that people seem to be assuming.

[Ramulous]

So are the friars able to offer Hopkins 100K a year in NIL? What is their total salary pool ? Do the schools coordinate with the booster/employers in determining the salary? Is see Wong situations becoming more prevalent in the future.

[ramster]

Mess in Miami

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/basketball ... 25419.html

[RIFan]

This is going to be worse than pro sports where mid size and small market teams can be good if they draft well and make some smart free agent signings. There is no high school or transfer draft, this is pure free agency where even if a small or mid size market team gets lucky the player most likely will leave for more NIL money. Can these NIL contracts stipulate that you can’t transfer or have buy outs?

[Rhody83]

The answer to the transfer question is no. If they written properly, the company could probably void the contract. The contracts have one year renewals so if a player transfers either side can just not renew.

[RIFan]

I thought the Miami contract was a 2 year deal? Does it have player option after year 1?

Never mind I just reread your post, they are renewed each year. Thx.

[rjsuperfly66]

“Many highly touted transfers are seeking the bag in similar fashion. Nearly a dozen sources told CBS Sports that 2022 transfers such as Kendric Davis (committed to Memphis), Norchad Omier (Miami), Tyrese Hunter, Baylor Scheiermann, Johni Broome, K.J. Williams, Kevin McCullar and Kenneth Lofton Jr. have all sought significant money deals. Although it might not be the primary reason for every one of them, the notion of being recruited to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars helped push all these high-end players into the portal. It's certainly driving their agents to be aggressive; the commission on some of these deals, sources told CBS Sports, is in the double-digit percentage range.

"For these guys, the NBA is either saying 'no' or is saying 'not yet,' so, 'I need to put myself in a place to make the next best professional decision for me, and that is to transfer,'" a coach involved in recruiting one of the players above told CBS Sports. (Coaches are not permitted to speak publicly about unsigned players of theirs.)

That coach also said another one of the players mentioned above is shopping a price of $300,000 for his name, image and likeness rights to pair with his commitment to a school. Multiple sources told CBS Sports that another one of the transfers listed above has an agent who has told schools recruiting him that he believes his client deserves more money than what Nijel Pack received to play at Miami. In essence, if you are a school not willing to align yourself with a company or companies willing to pay north of $400,000 for this player, don't bother.

"It wasn't, this is how it might be. It was, 'This is how it's going to be,'" one power-conference coach who was looking to recruit that player and spoke with the player's agent told CBS Sports. "I just needed to hear it for myself."

Said another coach involved in recruiting that player: "How it went with my assistant was, 'I'm going to come in and you have to give a competitive offer of what he's worth and there will be no renegotiating.'"

Yet another player listed above, according to sources, had a representative lie to other schools about how much money he was being offered in an effort to raise that player's potential NIL deal. Three coaches involved in the recruitment conferred with each other to suss out what was happening.

"Some of this is liar's poker," one veteran coach who was previously involved in that recruitment said.“

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... 3TVHfIAOc0

[Jdrums#3]

I think I know why Jay Wright retired.

Many excellent articles questions and responses posted in this thread (and the transfer thread). KB doing it’s thing. Great stuff.

[reef]

Whenever they mention college kids have an agent it immediately turns me off

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Whenever they mention college kids have an agent it immediately turns me off

Kids have had agents for years. That's what the AAU/shoe-company pimps do.

[rhodyblue12]

If this thought has already been discussed, I apologize ...

Another potential fallout of these NIL deals is Athletic boosters may redirect the money they used to give directly to University Athletic department as gifts to use it for NIL deals. This will funnel lots of money to specific players in the high profile sports and leave a big hole in Athletic budgets.

As football generates so much money, the P5 schools will have no budget issues. At non-P5 schools, less popular sports will likely have to be cut for the budget to be met. You may soon have secondary (non-revenue generating) sports only at P5 schools.

[RhodyKyle]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... -payments/

This one is for BAR

[Seawrightspostgame]

Whenever they mention college kids have an agent it immediately turns me off

Kids have had agents for years. That's what the AAU/shoe-company pimps do.

Exactly. It's just more kid-friendly now and there is some transperency. The same schools are going to get the same type players they were getting before because they were paying them then. Look at Zion Williamson/ Will Wade/ our own Preston Murphy. Kids make a decision on seven factors and one of them is the $$$. Good for them.

[SmartyBarrett]

Good piece from Rob Dauster.

[RF1]

Wichita State Shockers fire their AD. One of the reasons given was that he was too cautious and not being proactive enough concerning NIL.

Wichita State fired athletic director Darron Boatright on Wednesday amid growing criticism over the university’s inability to compete in the new market of name, image and likeness payments to athletes.

Critics targeted Boatright in recent weeks because Wichita State had not raised funds after the Supreme Court lifted a ban on college athletes being compensated for their names, images and likenesses, The Wichita Eagle reported. They said it was Boatright’s responsibility to ensure the school’s donors were aware of the new rules and be prepared with incentives to retain current players and attract new ones.



Read more at:
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com ... boatright/

[Rhody83]

Ed Cooley & PC don’t have a collective

[NYGFan_Section208]

Ed Cooley & PC don’t have a collective

This raises awesome possibilities/questions (i.e., keeps getting better all the time).
Like, okay, you're on Cameo Camera or whatever, getting some ching for a video spot...any limits/monitoring as to what you can/can't do?

[Rhody83]

[McRam]

I wonder how Frank Martin signed 5 transfers from P6 schools.

. I wonder if the A 10 will institute a salary cap ??

[RF1]

FBS football recruit

[SGreenwell]

College football is the second most popular sport in the U.S. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that the best players in that sport are going to get million-dollar deals via the NIL.

[Billyboy78]

Here's an interesting NIL story involving Boston College's star wide receiver. He wasn't even in the portal.

"It felt like I was back being recruited," he said. "They put a lot of pressure on you, too. But there's no money on the line during the time when you are recruited (in high school). Now there's money on the line. That makes it harder."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... s-transfer

[NYGFan_Section208]

FBS football recruit

Good for the dude. Can you imagine....you go to high school, move on to one year of college, and you could, theoretically, retire by 20? What a country.

[damram]

I am looking forward to the day that a player’s NIL is included in their stat line.

[Jdrums#3]

In my best Charleton Heston voice from his role in the original Planet of the Apes movie….

It’s a maaaaaaaad house!

[RhodyKyle]

These P5 schools are laughing right in the NCAA's face. They came out and said they're going to put in guard rails and make compliance retroactive to punish schools/boosters using NIL to mask pay for play. And USC does this. There is no longer any respect for that sham institution (the NCAA).

[Jdrums#3]

Maybe there’s a showdown abrewin’? High noon, outside the saloon. P5’s versus NCAA?

Fastest model NIL agreement wins.

[Rhodymob05]

Disaster waiting to happen, and is happening.

[Seawrightspostgame]

Wichita State Shockers fire their AD. One of the reasons given was that he was too cautious and not being proactive enough concerning NIL.

Wichita State fired athletic director Darron Boatright on Wednesday amid growing criticism over the university’s inability to compete in the new market of name, image and likeness payments to athletes.

Critics targeted Boatright in recent weeks because Wichita State had not raised funds after the Supreme Court lifted a ban on college athletes being compensated for their names, images and likenesses, The Wichita Eagle reported. They said it was Boatright’s responsibility to ensure the school’s donors were aware of the new rules and be prepared with incentives to retain current players and attract new ones.



Read more at:
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com ... boatright/

This is so funny bc they should be thriving in this climate all things considered.

[NYGFan_Section208]

These P5 schools are laughing right in the NCAA's face. They came out and said they're going to put in guard rails and make compliance retroactive to punish schools/boosters using NIL to mask pay for play. And USC does this. There is no longer any respect for that sham institution (the NCAA).

What's this "no longer any" business about?

[Blue Man]

These P5 schools are laughing right in the NCAA's face. They came out and said they're going to put in guard rails and make compliance retroactive to punish schools/boosters using NIL to mask pay for play. And USC does this. There is no longer any respect for that sham institution (the NCAA).

What's this "no longer any" business about?

I mean…this didn’t just pop up overnight.

This was happening - it was just being funneled through back channels, intermediaries, etc.

Now it’s just out in the open and people are shocked.

It’s a dirty business, the NIL is just allowing that to be public.

[RhodyKyle]

These P5 schools are laughing right in the NCAA's face. They came out and said they're going to put in guard rails and make compliance retroactive to punish schools/boosters using NIL to mask pay for play. And USC does this. There is no longer any respect for that sham institution (the NCAA).

What's this "no longer any" business about?

I mean…this didn’t just pop up overnight.

This was happening - it was just being funneled through back channels, intermediaries, etc.

Now it’s just out in the open and people are shocked.

It’s a dirty business, the NIL is just allowing that to be public.

And please don't get confused by my post - I'm for the players getting theirs. My comment was simply that the NCAA is trying to puff up their chest and talk tough while these P5 schools just laugh in their face.

[RIFan]

I wonder when we start to see NIL for top players friends and relatives to join the team as walk-ons with an NIL that covers cost of attendance plus some spending cash. You want me? Your offer needs to include my buddy or no deal.

[giovanni]

I'm not sure if this was posted. I haven't really kept up. But I thought this is a very interesting conversation from various views and worth a watch

[RIFan]

Did anyone listen to this? Around the 32min mark they say an A10 team is rumored to have 6-8 players getting $60,000 each.

Also, it was mentioned that a player from Toronto was not eligible for NIL, so is that the case for all of Canada and all international players?

[Rhody83]

[Rhody83]

[NYGFan_Section208]

Phew, it's about time! We been needin' a good glow ball!

[bigappleram]

Unless the Chinese company is run by a UD booster than it’s legit NIL and good for the kid. Not sure what a glow ball is but go get your money dude. And now this the NcAA is going to try and punish egregious acts already done lol

[RIFan]

Help me out here, my colleague who is a Penn St grad said he’s being hit up to sign up to provide monthly donations to a collective for Penn St NIL. Is that the future? Cut my donation to URI in half and give the other half to the collective?

[Jdrums#3]

This is interesting to me. Matching up with foreign companies that want to penetrate the US market. Opens up many more NIL opportunities for student athletes.

[RIFan]

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... t-boosters

[Rhody83]

Help me out here, my colleague who is a Penn St grad said he’s being hit up to sign up to provide monthly donations to a collective for Penn St NIL. Is that the future? Cut my donation to URI in half and give the other half to the collective?

Yes, it’s the present.