Upgrade to Meade?

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Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

So we have this fairly none newsworthy tweet from Rhody Football designed to show recruits more about URI football. No big deal, right?



Wrong? Click on the adobe link and go about three quarters of the way down. First you see a large picture of what Meade would look like with renovated East stands and they present two options for what that could look like.

Option 1:

Image

Image

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And option 2:

Image

Image

Image

Obviously they can't be particularly close to having shovels in dirt if they still have more than one design option they're showcasing, but as the first publicly available new concept of what an upgraded Meade could look like since approximately December of 2001, this is an interesting step
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

I'm particularly in favor of option 2, this seems to be the design most CAA schools are going with when they upgrade/renovate their stadiums, but I'd imagine that would cost significantly more money
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

HOLY SH*T WHY IS THIS NOT THE NUMBER ONE DISCUSSION ON HERE?? I saw this link, but had NO idea they had stadium improvement ideas. This is great. I like either option.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by ramster »

I like either option as well. I noticed that the Bike Path seems to no longer be enclosed in the Stadium fence. Is that right RR2?
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

It's hard to tell, and honestly I have no idea how recent these designs are. They could be brand new indicating increased movement on rehabbing the East side, or they could be old and therefore not taking into account the presence of the bike path
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by FmrRamFB1 »

The entire link was well presented. It’s great to see we’re finally selling the university. The stadium upgrades were a pleasant surprise.

-Agreed, I’ll take either option…what we currently have is pathetic. Hopefully there’s a plan and not just renderings.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhody74 »

I can’t imagine they’d make these public without some behind the scenes movement.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Rhody74 wrote: 2 years ago I can’t imagine they’d make these public without some behind the scenes movement.
They released the artist renderings that we've all become familiar with back in 2001 to news agencies, I first saw the plans on Channel 10 or 12. This was a lot more discreet. Here's hoping you're right though!
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by LIRAM »

That was put together really well and looked great! Great job by the Football Staff and all of those involved. Upgrades are a must and this is the time for them with the program trending up! Exciting news if they can pull this off with the practice facility breaking ground in the near future.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by ramster »

RhowdyRam02 wrote: 2 years ago It's hard to tell, and honestly I have no idea how recent these designs are. They could be brand new indicating increased movement on rehabbing the East side, or they could be old and therefore not taking into account the presence of the bike path
In the first slide of Option 1 it looks like the Bike Path behind the new proposed, one Level East Stands. I know it's more like an artists rendition but it would only make sense to design with the Bike Path outside the Stadium fence.

It looks to me like a more recent rendition of possible Meade Field improvement Options and the Football Program has included this within this New Presentation for recruiting purposes. It is selling the attributes of going to URI in Athletics and Academics. Seems aimed at the players and at their families.

Also as you noted, the President in Scott's Podcast quickly went from a Jumbotron discussion for Basketball to a Jumbotron possibility for the Football Field. Interesting. The President also noted the recent success of the Football Team as well as the WBB Team in the Podcast. He also said they were within $400k of the Goal for the Practice Facility and interestingly enough that the VolleyBall Team would also use the new Practice Facility. So maybe now that the Practice Facility is in motion the Meade Field Project is coming up on the radar? Hope so.

Some beautiful pictures in the Presentation. I love the Football Field with the red clouds in the background as the sun is setting. Also the pictures of the Academic Buildings Old and New plus a beautiful quadrangle picture. Very well done.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by rhodyrudder »

An upper deck?!?
Yes please :)
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Blue Man »

Option 2 seems to go with what already exists on the Ryan Center side in terms of slant and angle.

Also looks like more opportunities for updated concessions and standing room.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by URIROTC2006 »

Am I dumb to ask, how the hell do we expect to pay for this, if we can’t even put together the final funds needed for the b-ball practice facility?

I’m usually an optimistic person, but as of late, I’ve become very pessimistic when it comes to URI… and disappointed.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RF1 »

I always liked the 2001 design proposal. I wonder how I will feel in 20 years from now when these two 2022 designs are still being contemplated.


meade stadium concept.jpg
meade stadium concept.jpg (39.77 KiB) Viewed 3620 times
Last edited by RF1 2 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhody15 »

RF1 wrote: 2 years ago I always liked the 2001 design proposal. I wonder how I will feel in 20 years from now when these two 2022 designs are still being contemplated.



meade stadium concept.jpg
Yea, stadiums are always better when there’s seating on both sidelines and behind both goal posts.

With seating only on the sidelines, no matter how nice, always has a high school feel to me.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RF1 »

Some history on other recent athletic projects:

Dedicated Basketball practice facility carve-out/remodel of existing already built space
2018 - Promised to Dan Hurley as an enticement to keep him on
2022 update - no groundbreaking or construction as yet four years after first being proposed /fundraising nearing completion / no design yet chosen

Student Athlete Performance & Conditioning Center
2003 - Promised to Jim Baron as an enticement to keep him as he was being pursued by other jobs
2014 - Completed eleven years after first being proposed. Was initially to be a stand alone facility. Eventually pared back to a carve-out/remodel of existing space.

Hockey Arena
1975 - $500,000 donated by Henry Mackal for the elevation of the hockey program and construction of an on campus home
1991 - gift instead redirected from hockey to the construction of the Mackle Fieldhouse for indoor track who had been without a home for several years after the bubble facility collapse.
2002 - Boss Arena opens as the new on campus home of URI hockey

Tennis Complex
2009 - Opponents refuse to play on courts due to condition. Court surfaces deemed unsafe and unusable. Women are forced to move matches off site to Prout High School & Broad Rock Middle school
2011 - Courts resurfaced so that they could once again be used
2012 - Spectator Pavilion completed

Outdoor Track
???? - Condition of track is deemed unsafe and unusable
2022 - nothing has been done for decades to upgrade and nothing is presently proposed

Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet 21 years later
Last edited by RF1 2 years ago, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

One thing with the student athlete performance center. That was actually put up to voters and the bond failed, which is why the delay and why it was scaled back
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by FmrRamFB1 »

As bad as the east stands are and they’re awful, a D1 outdoor track team not having a track is a travesty. For far too long, the basic necessities to compete have been neglected by the university. The new president is aware so let’s hope things change for all our teams.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by FmrRamFB1 »

RF1 wrote: 2 years ago Some history on other recent athletic projects:

Dedicated Basketball practice facility carve-out/remodel of existing already built space
2018 - Promised to Dan Hurley as an enticement to keep him on
2022 update - no groundbreaking or construction as yet four years after first being proposed /fundraising nearing completion / no design yet chosen

Student Athlete Performance & Conditioning Center
2003 - Promised to Jim Baron as an enticement to keep him as he was being pursued by other jobs
2014 - Completed eleven years after first being proposed. Was initially to be a stand alone facility. Eventually pared back to a carve-out/remodel of existing space.

Hockey Arena
1975 - $500,000 donated by Henry Mackal for the elevation of the hockey program and construction of an on campus home
1991 - gift instead redirected from hockey to the construction of the Mackle Fieldhouse for indoor track who had been without a home for several years after the bubble facility collapse.
2002 - Boss Arena opens as the new on campus home of URI hockey

Tennis Complex
2009 - Opponents refuse to play on courts due to condition. Court surfaces deemed unsafe and unusable. Women are forced to move matches off site to Prout High School & Broad Rock Middle school
2011 - Courts resurfaced so that they could once again be used
2012 - Spectator Pavilion completed

Outdoor Track
???? - Condition of track is deemed unsafe and unusable
2022 - nothing has been done for decades to upgrade and nothing is presently proposed

Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet
A rendering without a funding plan is just a pipe dream. If and when the state says no, what’s plan B?
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

FmrRamFB1 wrote: 2 years ago
RF1 wrote: 2 years ago Some history on other recent athletic projects:

Dedicated Basketball practice facility carve-out/remodel of existing already built space
2018 - Promised to Dan Hurley as an enticement to keep him on
2022 update - no groundbreaking or construction as yet four years after first being proposed /fundraising nearing completion / no design yet chosen

Student Athlete Performance & Conditioning Center
2003 - Promised to Jim Baron as an enticement to keep him as he was being pursued by other jobs
2014 - Completed eleven years after first being proposed. Was initially to be a stand alone facility. Eventually pared back to a carve-out/remodel of existing space.

Hockey Arena
1975 - $500,000 donated by Henry Mackal for the elevation of the hockey program and construction of an on campus home
1991 - gift instead redirected from hockey to the construction of the Mackle Fieldhouse for indoor track who had been without a home for several years after the bubble facility collapse.
2002 - Boss Arena opens as the new on campus home of URI hockey

Tennis Complex
2009 - Opponents refuse to play on courts due to condition. Court surfaces deemed unsafe and unusable. Women are forced to move matches off site to Prout High School & Broad Rock Middle school
2011 - Courts resurfaced so that they could once again be used
2012 - Spectator Pavilion completed

Outdoor Track
???? - Condition of track is deemed unsafe and unusable
2022 - nothing has been done for decades to upgrade and nothing is presently proposed

Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet
A rendering without a funding plan is just a pipe dream. If and when the state says no, what’s plan B?
Wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth?
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

FmrRamFB1 wrote: 2 years ago
RF1 wrote: 2 years ago Some history on other recent athletic projects:

Dedicated Basketball practice facility carve-out/remodel of existing already built space
2018 - Promised to Dan Hurley as an enticement to keep him on
2022 update - no groundbreaking or construction as yet four years after first being proposed /fundraising nearing completion / no design yet chosen

Student Athlete Performance & Conditioning Center
2003 - Promised to Jim Baron as an enticement to keep him as he was being pursued by other jobs
2014 - Completed eleven years after first being proposed. Was initially to be a stand alone facility. Eventually pared back to a carve-out/remodel of existing space.

Hockey Arena
1975 - $500,000 donated by Henry Mackal for the elevation of the hockey program and construction of an on campus home
1991 - gift instead redirected from hockey to the construction of the Mackle Fieldhouse for indoor track who had been without a home for several years after the bubble facility collapse.
2002 - Boss Arena opens as the new on campus home of URI hockey

Tennis Complex
2009 - Opponents refuse to play on courts due to condition. Court surfaces deemed unsafe and unusable. Women are forced to move matches off site to Prout High School & Broad Rock Middle school
2011 - Courts resurfaced so that they could once again be used
2012 - Spectator Pavilion completed

Outdoor Track
???? - Condition of track is deemed unsafe and unusable
2022 - nothing has been done for decades to upgrade and nothing is presently proposed

Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet
A rendering without a funding plan is just a pipe dream. If and when the state says no, what’s plan B?
Its a start.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Brian Forster »

Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet 21 years later

The lights and field turf are not on this list?
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Brian Forster »

Am I dumb to ask, how the hell do we expect to pay for this, if we can’t even put together the final funds needed for the b-ball practice facility?

Its private $$,the school can try and steer, but ultimately its up to the individual donors to give $$ to what they want.
For example-hoops,FB,engineering,etc.. not to argue over pronouns, but there is no we or they.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by URIROTC2006 »

Brian Forster wrote: 2 years ago Am I dumb to ask, how the hell do we expect to pay for this, if we can’t even put together the final funds needed for the b-ball practice facility?

Its private $$,the school can try and steer, but ultimately its up to the individual donors to give $$ to what they want.
For example-hoops,FB,engineering,etc.. not to argue over pronouns, but there is no we or they.
Not dumb at all. I asked the same exact question a week ago.

I don’t see this happening. Not to be a pessimist.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

To me, building code issues on the stands should trigger some sort of grant or state funding, compared to a practice facility which is a want vs a need.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Brian Forster »

ROTC-not a dumb question,but they are different issues.
Where do the donors choose to spend their $$?
There are easy answers to this,go to the FB golf tourney and tailgates and ask them.
Or try to influence them-"Here is what I think you should do with your $$".
The FB and hoops donors are overwhelmingly a lot of the same people.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Brian Forster »

I hate to say this,but i got to imagine season tix are a tough sell for mens hoops right now?
Would hope that is first priority. Be a lot easier to get $$ for practice facility.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Brian Forster wrote: 2 years ago Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet 21 years later

The lights and field turf are not on this list?
I believe the East stands first failed to meet safety standards in 2009
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Brian Forster wrote: 2 years ago ROTC-not a dumb question,but they are different issues.
Where do the donors choose to spend their $$?
There are easy answers to this,go to the FB golf tourney and tailgates and ask them.
Or try to influence them-"Here is what I think you should do with your $$".
The FB and hoops donors are overwhelmingly a lot of the same people.
The donors should be using their influence with state legislators to get Meade improvements pushed through. "If you want me to continue giving you donations to run for a General Assembly seat/Governor, make sure this gets passed."
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by ramster »

RhowdyRam02 wrote: 2 years ago
Brian Forster wrote: 2 years ago Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet 21 years later

The lights and field turf are not on this list?
I believe the East stands first failed to meet safety standards in 2009
So why are they allowed to be used? Who makes that decision to keep open despite failed safety standards?
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

ramster wrote: 2 years ago
RhowdyRam02 wrote: 2 years ago
Brian Forster wrote: 2 years ago Meade Stadium West Stands
1999 - West stands demolished to make way for the Ryan Center with intent to later replace them
2002 - Ryan Center opens
2006 - New West stands completed at a cost of some $2M

Meade Stadium East Stands
???? - East stands fail to meet safety standards multiple times over the years. Capacity eventually reduced to relieve stress on structure.
2022 - No concrete plans announced to address and remediate problem

Meade Stadium Replacement/Comprehensive Overhaul
2001 - architectural conceptual designs released with no development plan
2022 - no concrete major overhaul plans proposed or released as yet 21 years later

The lights and field turf are not on this list?
I believe the East stands first failed to meet safety standards in 2009
So why are they allowed to be used? Who makes that decision to keep open despite failed safety standards?
My understanding is the building inspector/fire department probably does a sweep, says where the stands are insufficient and don't meet code, and we do enough to keep them open. So while technically they've failed multiple safety checks since 2009, they've never been in a failing state once the season begins and fans are in them. Again, that's my assumption of how things have worked
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodysk »

If the state or RI can pay to fix the leak in the dumping donuts center than the state should be able to fix the east stands.

Maybe Rhody is putting the squeeze on the state?
God forbid something happens to those stands when people on it being the state school.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodysk »

Maybe it’s time to think outside the box. Wink wink.
The east stands gets vandalized so bad that maybe school has to use insurance to fix? Come on Rhody football put your heads together!!!
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by KeaneyBluBallz »

Rhodysk wrote: 2 years ago Maybe it’s time to think outside the box. Wink wink.
The east stands gets vandalized so bad that maybe school has to use insurance to fix? Come on Rhody football put your heads together!!!
insurance fraud. nice.

Think big, we do.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by damram »

Hopefully the fire marshal condemns the whole damn thing. Then the state and/or university has to act.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by OBRAM »

Maybe we could use truck toll money. After all, it is not the salt and the snowplows that damage the road and the bridges, each bridge I see in need of repairs is full of rust caused by heavy trucks, put a truck toll up on Rt 138.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by FmrRamFB1 »

Rhodymob05 wrote: 2 years ago To me, building code issues on the stands should trigger some sort of grant or state funding, compared to a practice facility which is a want vs a need.
Agreed. The B-ball team’s issues have nothing to do with not having a practice faculty. I would love to see an actual funding campaign out together.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote: 2 years ago It's hard to tell, and honestly I have no idea how recent these designs are. They could be brand new indicating increased movement on rehabbing the East side, or they could be old and therefore not taking into account the presence of the bike path
Well we now have our answer, and unfortunately the news isn't great:

https://rhodycigar.com/2022/04/14/unive ... st-stands/

These plans were created in 2018, will cost between $30 and $35 million, and there is no set funding mechanism or timeline to complete the project

“'We made this decision knowing that at some point, we’re going to have to replace those stands,' Thorr Bjorn said. 'So we have the initial architecture and engineering work for that project, and in the event that we’re ready to move forward, we can.'"
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Ramulous »

They will build it bye and bye.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RF1 »

The Cigar article had this:

a new project will be the first updates given to the eastern grandstand since it was first erected approximately 30 years ago


Per my memory, the east grandstand goes back more than 30 years as I remember it being there in the early to mid 1980's when I first went to games at Meade. The wiki page for Meade Stadium lists its being built in 1978 which seems more accurate to me. That would make it 44 years old.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meade_Stadium

Check out the wiki link above for the highest attended games in the history of Meade. 13,052 in 1984 for BU was #1. many other games in excess of 10k.
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Correct, those stands have been there since the early 80's, I know I sat in them, and they sucked then too.
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Rhodymob05
Tyson Wheeler
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Rhodymob05 »

One of the biggest issues is that attendance was huge last season, and has been increasing, just as seating has been removed do to code. The Bryant game was standing room only. Not great.
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GO RAMS
Brian Forster
ARD
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Brian Forster »

Meade has contracted considerably.
Doubt where it could hold more than 7K.
Lots of wasted space.
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RhowdyRam02
Frank Keaney
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

The Stony Brook Homecoming game was considered a sell out and there were only 5778 there for that one
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Bartoburger
Marc Upshaw
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Bartoburger »

Does anyone know how much the new stands will hold? I would assume 7-8k? Making the total capacity close to 10k.
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RhowdyRam02
Frank Keaney
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

I don't think anyone really knows on that. Wasn't mentioned in the Cigar article, and really both of these are 4 year old concepts, so not exactly blueprints ready to go
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Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
Ramulous
Carlton Owens
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Ramulous »

Bye and bye.
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F*ck Alacki, DarthFriar, DirtyBeanFriar94, xCoachK, Boxworth, Friar Faithful, bicycleicycle, Matt_Keough, Patrick Norton, the Rosato brothers, and especially Benjamin Lord !
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NYGFan_Section208
Frank Keaney
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Ramulous wrote: 2 years agoBye and bye.
The "great" one, or the regular one?
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Ramulous
Carlton Owens
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Ramulous »

The one my mother referred to when she wanted to say never.
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F*ck Alacki, DarthFriar, DirtyBeanFriar94, xCoachK, Boxworth, Friar Faithful, bicycleicycle, Matt_Keough, Patrick Norton, the Rosato brothers, and especially Benjamin Lord !
Bartoburger
Marc Upshaw
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Re: Upgrade to Meade?

Unread post by Bartoburger »

Does anyone hear any updates on the east stands getting replaced at Meade Stadium? I hope the new URI President is behind this plan. This project is in the $35-40 million dollar range if I was to take a guess. Too bad they didn't complete this 6 or 7 years ago it would have been much cheaper. Regardless I am hoping this project gets going sooner than later.
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