The David Cox Era

[rambone 78]

Blue Man, you and I are in total agreement here.

[Jersey77]

Next year will be year 4 of a 5 year deal.

I know some here say extend him at least another year, at least for recruiting purposes.

If so, here we go down the rabbit hole.

I say hold off until after next season. Cox will still have another year on the deal, and not many holes to fill recruiting, at least for the following season.

We should know by then if Cox is the right man for the job long term.

If he can't get us to the tourney, why prolong the agony? If we have to start over, so be it.

The longer we wait, the longer it will take.........

Cox has to step up his game from the bench and stop the excuses. He's got time, but not forever.

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

[Blue Man]

Next year will be year 4 of a 5 year deal.

I know some here say extend him at least another year, at least for recruiting purposes.

If so, here we go down the rabbit hole.

I say hold off until after next season. Cox will still have another year on the deal, and not many holes to fill recruiting, at least for the following season.

We should know by then if Cox is the right man for the job long term.

If he can't get us to the tourney, why prolong the agony? If we have to start over, so be it.

The longer we wait, the longer it will take.........

Cox has to step up his game from the bench and stop the excuses. He's got time, but not forever.

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

[Blue Man]

Blue Man, you and I are in total agreement here.

To the extend about expectations.

You cannot have a coach at your school without a full 4 years left at any point in time.

That sends the wrong message to players, recruits, the coach, and prospective coaches.

Cox is still our guy. You have to fully support him as a University and Thorr knows that.

You give your guy every single possible chance to make the program his and succeed.

If he falls short of those expectations by year 5, you need to have planned for a buyout.

[Jersey77]

Next year will be year 4 of a 5 year deal.

I know some here say extend him at least another year, at least for recruiting purposes.

If so, here we go down the rabbit hole.

I say hold off until after next season. Cox will still have another year on the deal, and not many holes to fill recruiting, at least for the following season.

We should know by then if Cox is the right man for the job long term.

If he can't get us to the tourney, why prolong the agony? If we have to start over, so be it.

The longer we wait, the longer it will take.........

Cox has to step up his game from the bench and stop the excuses. He's got time, but not forever.

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

I don't want to compare the two, but let's face it Cox's cupboards weren't exactly full when he got here, all the senior leadership including almost all of the starters and scorers were gone. Also if you know anything about college basketball dynamics waiting till the end of year 4 out of a 5 year contract (as some mentioned) to extend is a recipe for disaster.

[ace]

Next year will be year 4 of a 5 year deal.

I know some here say extend him at least another year, at least for recruiting purposes.

If so, here we go down the rabbit hole.

I say hold off until after next season. Cox will still have another year on the deal, and not many holes to fill recruiting, at least for the following season.

We should know by then if Cox is the right man for the job long term.

If he can't get us to the tourney, why prolong the agony? If we have to start over, so be it.

The longer we wait, the longer it will take.........

Cox has to step up his game from the bench and stop the excuses. He's got time, but not forever.

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

But its fun! (no it’s not and reaching to make comparisons doesn’t exactly help Dave and isn’t fair to anybody)

Malesevic, Malone, Brooks, Powell, Buchanan; a recruiting class of Hare; Jonathan’s laptop escapades; APR penalties that only an appeal saved them from; zero fan interest (except for some of you weirdos); every programmatic thing aside from the Ryan Center itself (which is great) being absolute trash; distant memories of tournament participation; (and these are only the things that were generally known publicly)

versus

Dowtin, Langevine, Fatts, Akele, Thompson, Preston, Layssard, Tertsea; a recruiting class of Harris, Martin, Tate; fan interest/students who actually know and care about when games are being played; hanging banners symbolizing a mountain of removed pressure from the program’s shoulders; recruits who have heard of URI (I know they were good in the 90’s, but recruits don’t care- recruiting to URI now is way easier now than it was in 2012 and it’s not even close); legit money to offer to assistant coaches

Cheer up, things could be so much worse! But for real- the program stuff is huge. They have to still work hard to keep up, obviously, but there’s at least a solid foundation that won’t go away. I wholeheartedly think Dave succeeds, but if he doesn’t, the Rhode Island head coaching job is now a desirable one.


Also, those of you saying it doesn’t matter if players leave because look how much better the new ones are- are not exactly making the strong argumentative point you think you are. Stop hurting your case! You hope the staff has learned (Hammond, Long, Toppin, Mading, Silverio, Tsourgiannis, etc.) and you move on. Recruiting resources and time are so valuable, don’t waste them, and for the love of Hassan’s blocked shots and all other things holy... hold on to Ish, develop him, and make him the new standard for talent and continuity.

[bigappleram]

Great take Ace! Agreed.

And as it relates to Ish, 100%. He is a program player...someone you build around that exhibits every quality you want in a team. A Dowtin, Hass, EC type.

[Blue Man]

Great take Ace! Agreed.

And as it relates to Ish, 100%. He is a program player...someone you build around that exhibits every quality you want in a team. A Dowtin, Hass, EC type.

Hopefully this is recognized and reflected in his playing time.

With no waiver standing in a player's way next year, I really hope we don't lose Ish.

[ramster]

Great take Ace! Agreed.

And as it relates to Ish, 100%. He is a program player...someone you build around that exhibits every quality you want in a team. A Dowtin, Hass, EC type.

Hopefully this is recognized and reflected in his playing time.

With no waiver standing in a player's way next year, I really hope we don't lose Ish.

Playing time was a factor in 2 of our 3 transfers last season and that was with the sit out a year ruling.
Opposing Coaches know when players are dissatisfied - especially if they were recruiting those players while they were in high school. Only a phone call or text message away.
Leggett needs more playing time. His performance will continue to make it a difficult decision to NOT have him in the starting lineup.

[Blue Man]

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

I don't want to compare the two, but let's face it Cox's cupboards weren't exactly full when he got here, all the senior leadership including almost all of the starters and scorers were gone. Also if you know anything about college basketball dynamics waiting till the end of year 4 out of a 5 year contract (as some mentioned) to extend is a recipe for disaster.

You're absolutely right about the contract extension time. You have to extend Dave after this year, no matter what happens.

It doesn't mean you change the expectations of an NCAA appearance by year 5. That's a bare minimum.

Cox's cupboards were as full as you ever could ask for as a coach coming into a new program, short of being Duke and having Coach K retire.

Even if you wanted to excuse year 1 (I don't because you were winning plenty of games before you lost 5 in a row and 7/8 in conference), what is the excuse in year 2 to not win ANY "must win" games for a tournament birth? And losing to Brown and Richmond back to back?

While you can excuse certain losses individually, at a certain point they add up to a worrying trend. Outside of 1 PC game at home, what "stamp" have we put on this program? It's not an unfair question to ask mid-way through year 3.

Hurley said the toughest part about the rebuild was establishing a winning culture. Getting these guys to believe the could win big games. It took 3 years to get that into the player's heads before knocking off Nebraska. Dave inherited winners, so the expectations were high from the jump, as he said.

We have not yet achieved our "bar" - that doesn't mean we're not going to, but it's fair to be a little impatient the more these little opportunities keep slipping through our fingers.

No appearance/no big wins/and a bevy of transfers after this year? Then we're talking trouble.

[Jersey77]

DH got extended TWICE (2013, 2015) before he even made it to the dance, and Cox's record has been much better. As I said earlier just because you extend it doesn't mean that coaches always survive the extent of the contract, but at least you try to maintain the continuity and integrity of the program.

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

I don't want to compare the two, but let's face it Cox's cupboards weren't exactly full when he got here, all the senior leadership including almost all of the starters and scorers were gone. Also if you know anything about college basketball dynamics waiting till the end of year 4 out of a 5 year contract (as some mentioned) to extend is a recipe for disaster.

At least we do agree on the contract extension. Cox did inherit a winning culture and some promising young players, but it certainly was no walk in the park. The star power from the previous teams were gone and no veteran leadership. My expectations that year were very tempered and I thought any hope of post season play would just be a bonus (too many A10 teams better than us that year).
I was extremely disappointed and upset last year about our losses down the stretch, but who knows if we would of got hot in the tournament, beat Richmond in the semis, and maybe with a lot of luck get an at large, depending on what happened elsewhere. We never had that opportunity.

My main argument is against some of the posters here, who believe that Cox should not be given an extension until he gets to the "Dance". In my opinion that is ridiculous and too late, he should be given the same courtesy most coaches get, including DH early on, twice as I previously mentioned.

Cox takes full responsibility and blame, and understands his mistakes, the buck stops with him . He is still a relatively new head coach, constantly learning, and knows there is room for improvement.

Maybe the Seton Hall game can turn out to be a signature win.

Sorry Blue Man, I meant to attach your last post, which I based my response on.

[ace]

Correct. You extend Cox so he always has a full 4 year cycle to recruit to. That’s basic stuff.

I think it’s been covered that Hurley and Cox came into vastly different circumstances and you cannot compare the two.

I don't want to compare the two, but let's face it Cox's cupboards weren't exactly full when he got here, all the senior leadership including almost all of the starters and scorers were gone. Also if you know anything about college basketball dynamics waiting till the end of year 4 out of a 5 year contract (as some mentioned) to extend is a recipe for disaster.

My main argument is against some of the posters here, who believe that Cox should not be given an extension until he gets to the "Dance". In my opinion that is ridiculous and too late, he should be given the same courtesy most coaches get, including DH early on, twice as I previously mentioned.

The extensions for Hurley had more to do with getting things the program needed anyway and with there being external interest in him as a head coach candidate. We know it’s easier to recruit with job stability. I don’t know if that alone justifies it or what specific markers, if any, should lead to an extension and what kind of leverage Cox has in general. Regardless, you don’t do it as a courtesy, you do it to make your program better. I imagine, if he does well, he would be linked with DC/Maryland jobs, but for now, that’s all journalistic speculation.

[Rhody72]

...
You don’t wait for “value” or you lose the guy. See Hurley, Dan.
...

I think that you may have misunderstood what I'm saying which is that we should lock up DC NOW and not wait until his market value increases. Do you want to negotiate with some one that you want to retain when they are hot? No, just as you want to invest before the market price increases.

[reef]

Depending how we finish up this season I like a 1 or 2 year extension after the season finishes . If we underachieve I don’t think we should do more than 1 year there would still be 3 full years remaining if we come top 4 in conference and look the part then 2 year extension would be fine

[theblueram]

...
You don’t wait for “value” or you lose the guy. See Hurley, Dan.
...

I think that you may have misunderstood what I'm saying which is that we should lock up DC NOW and not wait until his market value increases. Do you want to negotiate with some one that you want to retain when they are hot? No, just as you want to invest before the market price increases.

It really doesn't matter. When a coach has success here, they are gone to greener pastures. History proves so. The point is to make them have success in 3-5 years or AX them.

[rhodyfan3000]

There were many people on here who didn't want to give Hurley an extension, just prior to his last two seasons. This site was lit up with debates on whether it was time to pull the plug on the "Hurley Experiment", if they got their way, we would have never got that payout at the end, Hurley would be coaching Canisius right now instead of Connecticut, we wouldn't have the problem right now of perhaps the greatest recruiter in the history of the program and so much talent we don't know who the heck should play where and for how many minutes. We basically don't know what to do with ourselves.

So...

[theblueram]

Of course we do. Hurley was on the hot seat because he was in year 4 with no NCAAT. And what happened when he made it? GONE. Just like Penders and Harrick and Skinner. So make the tournament, make us happy and go to your next destination or else get fired. That's my stance on where we are.

[rhodyfan3000]

So...

Passionate fans, yes.

Soothsayers on head coach's performances and ceilings, no. Not exactly.

The problem with this fanbase is the mental beating they took from 19 years of Jim Baron Coach for Life. Instead of seeing a reasonable 4-5 year cycle of success and then turnover, which is what we could be, and probably should be, they see an endless long dark tunnel of nothing. It's like college basketball fanbase PTSD

[theblueram]

Sorry, that's not what it is. Perhaps you are a DePaul fan?

[rhodyfan3000]

I get you, blueram.

The only problem with that is, you wait one or two more years, I think the odds go up dramatically of getting that payout, if you ax the coach instead after season number 4 "automatically" then you have to start all over, wait for the next guy to succeed or fail by year 4, if he doesn't win, start all over, wait 4 more years, no? start all over, start all over, start all over, start all over, and hope that somewhere along the line, you catch lightning in a bottle. Which of course, you are finally happy, but that guy sure as heck ain't staying, by that point you have thoroughly earned the reputation nationwide that you have no loyalty to anyone, so why should they be loyal and not use you as the stepping stone you WANT to be by design?

[theblueram]

Sorry, that's not what it is. Perhaps you are a DePaul fan? And actually, aren't you the one who started the Rick Pitino at the Tower Gas station rumor?

[rhodyfan3000]

No, I am not. Never started a Pitino rumor in my life, I'm not a big fan of Pitino.

[theblueram]

I get you, blueram.

The only problem with that is, you wait one or two more years, I think the odds go up dramatically of getting that payout, if you ax the coach instead after season number 4 "automatically" then you have to start all over, wait for the next guy to succeed or fail by year 4, if he doesn't win, start all over, wait 4 more years, no? start all over, start all over, start all over, start all over, and hope that somewhere along the line, you catch lightning in a bottle. Which of course, you are finally happy, but that guy sure as heck ain't staying, by that point you have thoroughly earned the reputation nationwide that you have no loyalty to anyone, so why should they be loyal and not use you as the stepping stone you WANT to be by design?

I have no loyalty to a coach. Neither should any of us. They are a paid employee with the job of getting us to the NCAAT. Fail and get fired.

[rambone 78]

What I want to see from Cox in the short term, is improvements in his bench coaching, and also more positive player development.

If this happens, we'll get to where we want to go.

He's got time, but I'm sure he knows he has to perform.

Not sure, with the talent here and most all returning next year, that I would give him a 5th year here if he fails to make the tournament by next season.

Maybe Thorr will have to extend him a year or so, but if so he shouldn't get a substantial raise until he proves he can win consistently.

Whatever happens, if he does win and stays, or if we have to hire a new staff, URI has got to ante up concerning the assistants.

[section(105)]

.......just asking blueram , is that the only bar?.......and few things matter beyond that?.......

[theblueram]

.......just asking blueram , is that the only bar?.......and few things matter beyond that?.......

For me? Yes. By the way, the name of this thread is NCAAT or Bust.

[rambone 78]

URI is in a good place with a school friendly contract when it come to DC. I'm happy they didn't give Dave the farm in advance. He has to earn a big contract.

Nobody wants to start over again, but surely there's no reason to keep a coach just because of recruits.

That ship has sailed, especially with the transfer rules as they are now.

[Rhody72]

Of course we do. Hurley was on the hot seat because he was in year 4 with no NCAAT. And what happened when he made it? GONE. Just like Penders and Harrick and Skinner. So make the tournament, make us happy and go to your next destination or else get fired. That's my stance on where we are.

Including Al in this trio is wrong. To many at URI he was 1 in 4 Al, and Petro played games in extending him. Al really wanted to stay.

[rhodyruckus]

Of course we do. Hurley was on the hot seat because he was in year 4 with no NCAAT. And what happened when he made it? GONE. Just like Penders and Harrick and Skinner. So make the tournament, make us happy and go to your next destination or else get fired. That's my stance on where we are.

Including Al in this trio is wrong. To many at URI he was 1 in 4 Al, and Petro played games in extending him. Al really wanted to stay.

Agreed, he knew his home was here and always seemed uncomfortable with BC despite his occasional successes. Al wasn't the firebrand that John Chaney was but seemed to be the type of lifer coach to stay with one school that he was. It was a perfect storm that brought us Harrick with Mobley and Wheeler in their senior seasons with a formerly disgraced Harrick having paid his penance from the UCLA ouster. If not for that, our next hire would have been significantly less inspiring.

If Al stayed, we wouldn't have rode Harrick and that brief taste of greatness, but may have also skipped over the terrible seasons with Jerry D and Baron if hitching to Al's wagon.

[Blue Man]

...
You don’t wait for “value” or you lose the guy. See Hurley, Dan.
...

I think that you may have misunderstood what I'm saying which is that we should lock up DC NOW and not wait until his market value increases. Do you want to negotiate with some one that you want to retain when they are hot? No, just as you want to invest before the market price increases.

Ah yes, then I totally misunderstood, and I agree.

Either way, re-negotiating a contract is always a loss-leader for the school. You have to do right by your coach, or recruiting and the program suffers. If the coach turns out how you hope he does, there's always the chance you lose him anyway.

The problem we've always had, as Ace pointed out, is recent contract extensions have required the University to commit more to basketball.

It's pathetic that a coach has to beg with the school to do what is best for the program. This is, has always been, and seems like it will continue to be our problem. No matter who is in the coach's chair, you need to adequately fund and support your program to the level you aspire to be.

We constantly talk about a championship level program - but we fund at a middle-of-the-pack level relative to the schools in our conference. No surprise why we constantly find ourselves middle-of-the-pack.

If we wanted to be a Fordham, we should've stayed in Keaney. We didn't. We built the Ryan Center. So we need to stop half-assing and commit like a championship level program.

Yes, extend Cox immediately - but not with more money to him. Extend his years at the same salary, but increase his assistant's pool, increase the charter budget, etc. Give him more tools to get this program to the level we aspire to be. Then, if those expectations are not met, you have to move on - but your program will be in a better place because of it.

[Billyboy78]

...
You don’t wait for “value” or you lose the guy. See Hurley, Dan.
...

I think that you may have misunderstood what I'm saying which is that we should lock up DC NOW and not wait until his market value increases. Do you want to negotiate with some one that you want to retain when they are hot? No, just as you want to invest before the market price increases.

Ah yes, then I totally misunderstood, and I agree.

Either way, re-negotiating a contract is always a loss-leader for the school. You have to do right by your coach, or recruiting and the program suffers. If the coach turns out how you hope he does, there's always the chance you lose him anyway.

The problem we've always had, as Ace pointed out, is recent contract extensions have required the University to commit more to basketball.

It's pathetic that a coach has to beg with the school to do what is best for the program. This is, has always been, and seems like it will continue to be our problem. No matter who is in the coach's chair, you need to adequately fund and support your program to the level you aspire to be.

We constantly talk about a championship level program - but we fund at a middle-of-the-pack level relative to the schools in our conference. No surprise why we constantly find ourselves middle-of-the-pack.

If we wanted to be a Fordham, we should've stayed in Keaney. We didn't. We built the Ryan Center. So we need to stop half-assing and commit like a championship level program.

Yes, extend Cox immediately - but not with more money to him. Extend his years at the same salary, but increase his assistant's pool, increase the charter budget, etc. Give him more tools to get this program to the level we aspire to be. Then, if those expectations are not met, you have to move on - but your program will be in a better place because of it.

And I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing that Dan is a bit more persuasive than David when it comes to demanding more commitment to the program from the administration.

[Seawrightspostgame]

The gifts toward the practice facility happened during the Cox tenure.

Hopefully adding Bertrand takes the team to the next level. A guy who can score is good when your team is prone to droughts. His confidence also will probably rub off on some of these guys.

This team is so talented. Put it together and win the A10!

[Jersey77]

The gifts toward the practice facility happened during the Cox tenure.

Hopefully adding Bertrand takes the team to the next level. A guy who can score is good when your team is prone to droughts. His confidence also will probably rub off on some of these guys.

This team is so talented. Put it together and win the A10!

I like your optimism but maybe pull back a little on your expectations. The A10 is very strong this year, especially the upper tier, so let's see how this plays out. Losing Makhi for the season is huge, and thins out our depth up front, especially with JH's foot concerns. Harris, Walker, and Makhel will all need to stay out of foul trouble and in case of an emergency possible use Ileri to help bolster the frontcourt, but that is a longshot. Having AB available to play the 2 or 3 is significant and will give us a more competitive edge.

[Rhody72]

Watching games, I'm not sure who is our PG and who is our SG although it appears to be Sheppard. If it is, then he needs to penetrate more and get the ball to the bigs inside. If Fatts is the PG, then Sheppard needs to shoot better. Carey looked sloppy the last two games. In any case we need an outside shooter, perhaps AB. With Ish coming on, Sheppard and Carey may see fewer minutes unless they start producing. We beat SH with great FT shooting which was not so great in our last two losses.

[section(105)]

......I thought we had knock down three point shooters in this group, they were touted as such, no?....unlike sketchy three point shooters of last two years......

[PeterRamTime]

Watching games, I'm not sure who is our PG and who is our SG although it appears to be Sheppard. If it is, then he needs to penetrate more and get the ball to the bigs inside. If Fatts is the PG, then Sheppard needs to shoot better. Carey looked sloppy the last two games. In any case we need an outside shooter, perhaps AB. With Ish coming on, Sheppard and Carey may see fewer minutes unless they start producing. We beat SH with great FT shooting which was not so great in our last two losses.

We were 11-15 in the last game.

Just didn't get to the line enough.

[DC_Rams]

......I thought we had knock down three point shooters in this group, they were touted as such, no?....unlike sketchy three point shooters of last two years......

DJ, Shep and AB. That’s 3...

[TruePoint]

Fin.

[NHRamFan]

..... is over.

[PeteRI]

Is it too soon to change the title of this thread to:

"The David Cox Error ?

[TruePoint]

Yes it will always be too soon for that cliche

[Rhodyhooopz]

Let’s not forget the good he did as an assistant.

Jeff Dowtin alone makes him a good hire.

[ramster]

Is it too soon to change the title of this thread to:

"The David Cox Error ?

Why so mean?

Time to move on.

[ace]

For the sake of closure, I re-read the first 10 or so pages of this thread. Such innocence and hope! Oof. The early talk of the importance of the rest of the staff seems rather prescient. That Mike Rice endorsement was quite something, too.

[reef]

For the sake of closure, I re-read the first 10 or so pages of this thread. Such innocence and hope! Oof. The early talk of the importance of the rest of the staff seems rather prescient. That Mike Rice endorsement was quite something, too.

Good call I just reread the 1st page , amazing how we were all on board with it then we turned on him when he failed

[NYGFan_Section208]

First negative thing I've ever heard another coach say about Coach Cox .....

Prescient...

[reef]

First negative thing I've ever heard another coach say about Coach Cox .....

Prescient...

Rice got it wrong definitely not a hoop version of Tomlin substitute any poor NFL coach instead

[NYGFan_Section208]

First negative thing I've ever heard another coach say about Coach Cox .....

Prescient...

Rice got it wrong definitely not a hoop version of Tomlin substitute any poor NFL coach instead

I would say Joe Judge, but trying to be nicer...

[reef]

Prescient...

Rice got it wrong definitely not a hoop version of Tomlin substitute any poor NFL coach instead

I would say Joe Judge, but trying to be nicer...

I was originally thinking Richie Kotite Jets

[Qtaug]

"The David Cox Error" is more like it! Good riddance! Go Rhody!