The Transfer Carousel - 2020-21

[CHICO 78]

Cox probably reached out and was told don't bother he wants a shot at a P5
program. Don't waste your time. ( I don't know that for a fact just an
educated guess based on the list of suitors).

[79RhodyFan]

With only 7 eligible players as of now, why aren't we one of those teams listed who have reached out to Mutts? I'd think it would be a no brainer to at least reach out to gauge interest.

I see four potential reasons:

1. Coaches are asleep at the wheel (I don't think this it).
2. We are going into stealth mode to get the player
3. We aren't recruiting him because there is another option we do not know publicly
4. Staff (or Fatts) do not like the player - Cox/Fatts should have an idea about his skills playing with Fatts and Cox scouting Fatts.

5) Cox put out feelers and didn't like what he heard (whatever that happened to be.)

Delaware coach is Martin Ingelsby. Ingelsby played high school basketball at Archbishop Carroll, graduated in 1997. David Cox was an assistant coach at Archbishop Carroll from 1996-1999. They were also both Big East assistant coaches at the same time, Ingelsby at Notre Dame and Cox at Georgetown and Rutgers (2009-2013). So there is likely a pretty strong relationship there where Cox could reach out and ask what Ingelsby thought.

6) Cox expects to the Mitchell Twins to get waivers and thus looking for a shooter at the 3

[DC_Rams]

With only 7 eligible players as of now, why aren't we one of those teams listed who have reached out to Mutts? I'd think it would be a no brainer to at least reach out to gauge interest.

I see four potential reasons:

1. Coaches are asleep at the wheel (I don't think this it).
2. We are going into stealth mode to get the player
3. We aren't recruiting him because there is another option we do not know publicly
4. Staff (or Fatts) do not like the player - Cox/Fatts should have an idea about his skills playing with Fatts and Cox scouting Fatts.

5) Cox put out feelers and didn't like what he heard (whatever that happened to be.)

Delaware coach is Martin Ingelsby. Ingelsby played high school basketball at Archbishop Carroll, graduated in 1997. David Cox was an assistant coach at Archbishop Carroll from 1996-1999. They were also both Big East assistant coaches at the same time, Ingelsby at Notre Dame and Cox at Georgetown and Rutgers (2009-2013). So there is likely a pretty strong relationship there where Cox could reach out and ask what Ingelsby thought.

Should probably have a fact checker here.

Inglesby went to Archbishop John Carroll in PA., not the one in DC. Cox has no ties or affiliations to Inglesby.

[rjsuperfly66]

Clearly I was wrong. Thanks for clarifying

[SmartyBarrett]

Transfer from Ohio State. Haven't seen much waiver news one way or the other, and it sounds like Carton had some personal issues. But if he gets a waiver then I like Rhody's chances to get at least one.

[Jersey77]

He was a freshman leaving the team in January citing mental health issues , and transferred twice as close to his home.

[Rhody15]

He was a freshman leaving the team in January citing mental health issues , and transferred twice as close to his home.

And he had an Instagram post saying that Ohio St “didn’t have room” for him and sort of forced him out, which I don’t really Believe seeing how he was a Top 40 kid playing at a high level.

[ramster]

Big East losing players to P5??

Say it ain’t so Rhode Island Red

[rjsuperfly66]

Big East losing players to P5??

Say it ain’t so Rhode Island Red

Why are there such sweeping generalizations about one or two players?

As for the last tweet, it's true, but doesn't necessarily tie in with the transfers.

If you look at the Top 20 scoring leaders:

1 - Markus Howard - Graduated
2 - Myles Powell - Graduated
3 - Ty-Shon Alexander - Turned Pro
4 - Naji Marshall - Turned Pro
5 - Kamar Baldwin - Graduated
6 - Marcus Zegarowski
7 - Saddiq Bey - Turned Pro
8 - Charlie Moore
9 - Omer Yurtseven - Graduated
10 - Paul Reed Jr. - Turned Pro
11 - Collin Gillespie
12 - LJ Figueroa - Transferred to Oregon
13 - Alpha Diallo - Graduated
14 - Tyrique Jones - Graduated
15 - Sacar Anim - Graduated
16 - Paul Scruggs
17 - David Duke
18 - Rasheem Dunn
19 - Mitch Ballock
20 - Quincy McKnight - Graduated

20 Players
8 - Graduated
7 - Still Eligible
4 - Turned Pro
1 - Transferred

Do we want to do the same exercise for other conferences?

[ramster]

It’s the tip of the iceberg

The P5 Football and to a lesser extent P5 Basketball will rule 100% D1.

[rjsuperfly66]

And that may very well be true in the future but one transfer of LJ Figueroa doesn't make that any more true today than it was two weeks ago. The Big East will still be a 5-6 bid conference next season and probably at minimum the next 5 seasons after that.

[Jersey77]

I agree with superfly66, The Big East will continue to be an extremely strong force in college basketball. Their top tier programs continue to sign high profile recruits and Marquette who finished in the bottom half of the conference did get one of the nation's top transfers in D J Carton who came from Ohio State.

[woodennickel1]

It’s the tip of the iceberg

The P5 Football and to a lesser extent P5 Basketball will rule 100%

As far as football goes yes in fact I think they already rule pretty much because of the size of the roster. Basketball is whole different situation. Already you see the quality transfers uri has gotten. Basketball will stay pretty much the same as it has been.

[rhodyblue12]

Davidson's Luke Frampton is in Transfer Portal.

[TrevlontRook3]

Just curious if there are any updates on the transfer waivers for immediate eligibility. I’m trying to get a better idea of what the teams going to look like. Have these waivers already been submitted, when should we be expecting news, and who if any might be granted eligibility? I imagine it must be chaos for Cox and staff to be game planning with players back on campus and no clue what the team might actually look like.

[SGreenwell]

Just curious if there are any updates on the transfer waivers for immediate eligibility. I’m trying to get a better idea of what the teams going to look like. Have these waivers already been submitted, when should we be expecting news, and who if any might be granted eligibility? I imagine it must be chaos for Cox and staff to be game planning with players back on campus and no clue what the team might actually look like.

In past years, there has been little rhyme or reason as to when decisions are handed down. I don't know if that is because of the member institutions - like, if URI just releases all of the decisions on one day - or if the NCAA hands out does all of the decisions on waiver requests for a school on one day. For comparison's sake, the decisions on Walker and Sheppard were publicized in the Projo on Nov. 1, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Ramulous]

I propose they give each player a tracking number so they can monitor progress.

[CHICO 78]

I THINK THEY USE A DART BOARD TO DETERMINE THE ORDER ONCE THEY TAKE CARE OF THE P5'S!!

[SmartyBarrett]

All-name team candidate, too.

[Ramulous]

Wasn’t he in the Sopranos?

[Billyboy78]

Wasn’t he in the Sopranos?

Goodfellas.

[PeterRamTime]

All-name team candidate, too.

Let's bring him in! He looked good against us last year and in every Manhattan game I tuned into.

Best part about him is that he doesn't put the ball on the floor before shooting a wide open lay up!

[JimSidd]

All-name team candidate, too.

Let's bring him in! He looked good against us last year and in every Manhattan game I tuned into.

Best part about him is that he doesn't put the ball on the floor before shooting a wide open lay up!

I also remember him from last year’s game and thought he looked good. Unless staff has a good feeling about the Mitchells receiving waivers, and how could anyone be certain of this with the seemingly arbitrary at times decisions by the NCAA, I say at least have a conversation with him.

[sevegny7]

[ramster]

Davidson's Luke Frampton is in Transfer Portal.

[ramster]

All-name team candidate, too.

Let's bring him in! He looked good against us last year and in every Manhattan game I tuned into.

Best part about him is that he doesn't put the ball on the floor before shooting a wide open lay up!

I also remember him from last year’s game and thought he looked good. Unless staff has a good feeling about the Mitchells receiving waivers, and how could anyone be certain of this with the seemingly arbitrary at times decisions by the NCAA, I say at least have a conversation with him.

[Jersey77]

I am a little surprised, thought Maryland would of been a likely landing spot for PP.

[Seawrightspostgame]

Lots of waivers being granted

[Jersey77]

UNC Wilmington's Ian Steere received a waiver from NCAA to play this season. Told it was a run-off waiver which St. John’s supported.

95 percent of the waivers granted so far this offseason have been run-offs.

First I've heard of a "run off" waiver:

How teams apply for one:
Documentation demonstrating that the student-athlete would not have had the opportunity to return to the previous institution’s team for reasons outside the control of the student-athlete.
A written statement from the applicant institution that the student-athlete is in good academic standing and meets all progress-toward-degree requirements at applicant institution.
A written statement from the student-athlete’s previous institution indicating that the previous institution supports the request.

[Jersey77]

My above was from Jeff Goodman that was posted in another forum, not sure if any of our transfers would qualify for the run-off waiver, but interesting.

[rjsuperfly66]

A run-off waiver is essentially the more politically correct way of saying a player got brizzed -- I.E - The coach didn't want to tie up a scholarship with that player and politely nudged him on for greener pastures. That's why as 77 listed above, they get a letter from the school that confirms the fact that the player would not have had the ability to return.

[Rhody74]

A run-off waiver is essentially the more politically correct way of saying a player got brizzed -- I.E - The coach didn't want to tie up a scholarship with that player and politely nudged him on for greener pastures.

This was from a USA Today story last year on the topic:

"In cases where an athlete was run off by a coach or essentially had their scholarship pulled for non-disciplinary reasons, the NCAA will require a written statement from the athletics director at the previous school stating whether the athlete would not have had an opportunity to return to the team and why the athlete is transferring. The committee is being instructed to deny cases where the athlete can’t document that they’ve been run off. That marks a change from prior protocol, where a key determining factor in "run off" situations was whether the previous school objected to the waiver request. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 569260001/

Wouldn’t the twins qualify in this scenario?

[phipsiGD'11]

It sounds like once again we are subject to hoping that another school plays nice in the sandbox.

Last year was Walker/Gtown, and we all know how that went.

[rjsuperfly66]

A run-off waiver is essentially the more politically correct way of saying a player got brizzed -- I.E - The coach didn't want to tie up a scholarship with that player and politely nudged him on for greener pastures.

This was from a USA Today story last year on the topic:

"In cases where an athlete was run off by a coach or essentially had their scholarship pulled for non-disciplinary reasons, the NCAA will require a written statement from the athletics director at the previous school stating whether the athlete would not have had an opportunity to return to the team and why the athlete is transferring. The committee is being instructed to deny cases where the athlete can’t document that they’ve been run off. That marks a change from prior protocol, where a key determining factor in "run off" situations was whether the previous school objected to the waiver request. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 569260001/

Wouldn’t the twins qualify in this scenario?

Not exactly -- This scenario is more or less, Player A is the 13th player on the team, the coach wants to use the scholarship elsewhere, and basically tells Player A that they are a great person, that they love them so much, but that they are never going to play a meaningful role on this roster and encourage them to go somewhere where they can get actually get minutes, and in turn the program helps out the player by writing all these nice letters to the NCAA about how Player A is a great kid, is in good academic standing, but there wasn't going to be a scholarship available for him this year and that they support the player getting an immediate waiver.

Under the Mitchell scenario, they were both going to be suspended, and there was a "mutual" agreement after a meeting that it would be best for all parties if they moved on. This was more of a parent and kids wanting one thing, the coaching staff not giving in, and so they decide it's best they go somewhere else and try to find it. If the Mitchells had said "Sorry coach, won't happen again," they are still Terrapins, so it's not technically a run-off.

[ramster]

A run-off waiver is essentially the more politically correct way of saying a player got brizzed -- I.E - The coach didn't want to tie up a scholarship with that player and politely nudged him on for greener pastures.

This was from a USA Today story last year on the topic:

"In cases where an athlete was run off by a coach or essentially had their scholarship pulled for non-disciplinary reasons, the NCAA will require a written statement from the athletics director at the previous school stating whether the athlete would not have had an opportunity to return to the team and why the athlete is transferring. The committee is being instructed to deny cases where the athlete can’t document that they’ve been run off. That marks a change from prior protocol, where a key determining factor in "run off" situations was whether the previous school objected to the waiver request. "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 569260001/

Wouldn’t the twins qualify in this scenario?

UNC Wilmington's Ian Steere received a waiver from NCAA to play this season. Told it was a run-off waiver which St. John’s supported.

95 percent of the waivers granted so far this offseason have been run-offs.

First I've heard of a "run off" waiver:

How teams apply for one:
Documentation demonstrating that the student-athlete would not have had the opportunity to return to the previous institution’s team for reasons outside the control of the student-athlete.
A written statement from the applicant institution that the student-athlete is in good academic standing and meets all progress-toward-degree requirements at applicant institution.
A written statement from the student-athlete’s previous institution indicating that the previous institution supports the request.

Yes. The twins would be pursuing this angle. Head Coach didn’t want them on the team

95% of approvals have been this angle. That’s the approach obviously to take.

[eli#10]

Will Turgeon cooperate in this process and increase the odds of the twins being able to play immediately. I say NO! Without his cooperation the NCAA approval is a long shot.

[ramster]

Turgeon didn’t want the twins.
Turgeon scheduled URI for a home game last year
Turgeon respects David Cox, he scheduled the game with Cox
Turgeon played the twins against URI in the game. Don’t look at their stats especially their Personal Fouls per minute played.
No reason why Turgeon would not cooperate with David Cox and URI for the twins.

[rjsuperfly66]

That's definitely not the spirit of the run-off rule but for the sake of URI hope it works out.

[rhodylaw]

That's definitely not the spirit of the run-off rule but for the sake of URI hope it works out.

I think it is the exact spirit of the run-off rule. Coach no longer wants the player on the team. Sometimes that is because there is a better player coming in, sometimes it is because the coach and player don’t get fit well. Turgeon will cooperate with the waiver. This is different from Antoine last year, GTown did not cooperate and he had an off-team disciplinary issue. I don’t think the twins had any “disciplinary” issues just they were not fitting in with the team.

[rjsuperfly66]

I think the difference between a run-off and the Mitchell’s is that while Turgeon may have been in agreement of a “mutual” decision for the Mitchell’s to leave, it was only after they complained about playing time, role, and were facing suspension. They then met and it was determined that it was best for the Mitchell’s to go else-where. As much as Turgeon was involved in that decision, the Mitchell’s basically shot their way out of town. That’s not what the run-off was technically intended for. It wasn’t meant for kids to become malcontents to get safe passage to another school.

That said, it’s a rule, it’s probably been abused several times before, URI and the Mitchell’s should absolutely try to get this through, but don’t sit and tell me when a run-off waiver was designed this was the type of case they were looking for.

[Jersey77]

Per article from 12/29
Sources told IMS that Turgeon was prepared to hand out a suspension to one or both twins on Friday, but after meeting with them and their mother, the decision was instead made for them to leave the program. The 7-foot-2 Marial, their fellow freshman, was cleared to play recently and made his debut today in Maryland's 84-70 win over Bryant, hence Maria Mitchell's reference to him.

From another article on 12/30
The twin brothers announced Friday they were entering the NCAA transfer portal and prior to entering the transfer portal was on the edge of being suspended by Maryland's Head Coach Mark Turgeon. According to multiple sources, the twins had an physical altercation with star player Anthony Cowan Jr. and was on the heels of becoming academically ineligible.

[DC_Rams]

My take. Cowan and the twins are close. Practice gets competitive. Sometimes, I tend to believe that you have to let kids argue it out. Restrain them, but if it’s just testosterone bubbling, chances are after practice, they hug/shake it out.

[URIRecruitingInfo]

I think the difference between a run-off and the Mitchell’s is that while Turgeon may have been in agreement of a “mutual” decision for the Mitchell’s to leave, it was only after they complained about playing time, role, and were facing suspension. They then met and it was determined that it was best for the Mitchell’s to go else-where. As much as Turgeon was involved in that decision, the Mitchell’s basically shot their way out of town. That’s not what the run-off was technically intended for. It wasn’t meant for kids to become malcontents to get safe passage to another school.

That said, it’s a rule, it’s probably been abused several times before, URI and the Mitchell’s should absolutely try to get this through, but don’t sit and tell me when a run-off waiver was designed this was the type of case they were looking for.

Every time you post, you seem to have new details about this private meeting. You must have amazing sources.

[rjsuperfly66]

I think the difference between a run-off and the Mitchell’s is that while Turgeon may have been in agreement of a “mutual” decision for the Mitchell’s to leave, it was only after they complained about playing time, role, and were facing suspension. They then met and it was determined that it was best for the Mitchell’s to go else-where. As much as Turgeon was involved in that decision, the Mitchell’s basically shot their way out of town. That’s not what the run-off was technically intended for. It wasn’t meant for kids to become malcontents to get safe passage to another school.

That said, it’s a rule, it’s probably been abused several times before, URI and the Mitchell’s should absolutely try to get this through, but don’t sit and tell me when a run-off waiver was designed this was the type of case they were looking for.

Every time you post, you seem to have new details about this private meeting. You must have amazing sources.

Or you take the very public tweets from mom and the very public reports of an imminent suspension, and you fill in some very small gaps and come to a very simple conclusion.

They pow-wow and everyone agrees it's time for them to go. Do you think that conclusion came from everyone was on the same page, or following mom's tweets, that they were pissed about the PT coming to Marial and presumably lesser roles?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to connect those dots...

[ramster]

I think the difference between a run-off and the Mitchell’s is that while Turgeon may have been in agreement of a “mutual” decision for the Mitchell’s to leave, it was only after they complained about playing time, role, and were facing suspension. They then met and it was determined that it was best for the Mitchell’s to go else-where. As much as Turgeon was involved in that decision, the Mitchell’s basically shot their way out of town. That’s not what the run-off was technically intended for. It wasn’t meant for kids to become malcontents to get safe passage to another school.

That said, it’s a rule, it’s probably been abused several times before, URI and the Mitchell’s should absolutely try to get this through, but don’t sit and tell me when a run-off waiver was designed this was the type of case they were looking for.

Every time you post, you seem to have new details about this private meeting. You must have amazing sources.

If it looks like a Run-Off
Swims like a Run-Off
Quacks like a Run-Off
then it's probably a Run-Off

[rjsuperfly66]

Under your definition of a run-off then, if I'm playing for a coach and I'm not happy, I should be as big an asshole as possible so he says "You know what, we don't think it's a fit anymore, you should go find somewhere else to play." Now I can go anywhere I want and get immediate eligibility because "The coach said to go play somewhere else, I was run off."

That doesn't look, swim, or quack like a run off.

If you compare it to Eamonn Brennan's definition in 2010 of a run-off, it feels like vastly different scenarios:

"You know what would be, like, a total buzzkill? Signing a scholarship to play collegiate basketball at a major institution, making good on your end of the commitment, and then finding out after a year -- or two or three -- that, hey, thanks for coming, but we kind of need that scholarship for someone vastly more talented now. Would you mind transferring? This is where we the school will kindly remind you that your scholarship is a one-year, merit-based, renewable document, and we are under no obligation to extend it for another year should we choose not to.

Harsh, bro. Harsh. The practice of sending players away via transfer to make room for scholarships is called a runoff, and it happens more frequently than it should -- which is to say it shouldn't happen at all."

https://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasket ... lege-hoops

[URIRecruitingInfo]

I think the difference between a run-off and the Mitchell’s is that while Turgeon may have been in agreement of a “mutual” decision for the Mitchell’s to leave, it was only after they complained about playing time, role, and were facing suspension. They then met and it was determined that it was best for the Mitchell’s to go else-where. As much as Turgeon was involved in that decision, the Mitchell’s basically shot their way out of town. That’s not what the run-off was technically intended for. It wasn’t meant for kids to become malcontents to get safe passage to another school.

That said, it’s a rule, it’s probably been abused several times before, URI and the Mitchell’s should absolutely try to get this through, but don’t sit and tell me when a run-off waiver was designed this was the type of case they were looking for.

Every time you post, you seem to have new details about this private meeting. You must have amazing sources.

Or you take the very public tweets from mom and the very public reports of an imminent suspension, and you fill in some very small gaps and come to a very simple conclusion.

They pow-wow and everyone agrees it's time for them to go. Do you think that conclusion came from everyone was on the same page, or following mom's tweets, that they were pissed about the PT coming to Marial and presumably lesser roles?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to connect those dots...

My experience in meetings, the people not at the meeting who "fill in gaps" are generally wrong. I'm sure you are the exception however.

[ramster]

It was said by a poster earlier that 95% of those getting waivers so far were because they were Run-Off

I'll bet the house that the Mitchell's get their waiver based on the same Run-Off criteria that the 95% have already been based on.

The other 5% I don't care to even research, doesn't matter

[rjsuperfly66]

Every time you post, you seem to have new details about this private meeting. You must have amazing sources.

Or you take the very public tweets from mom and the very public reports of an imminent suspension, and you fill in some very small gaps and come to a very simple conclusion.

They pow-wow and everyone agrees it's time for them to go. Do you think that conclusion came from everyone was on the same page, or following mom's tweets, that they were pissed about the PT coming to Marial and presumably lesser roles?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to connect those dots...

My experience in meetings, the people not at the meeting who "fill in gaps" are generally wrong. I'm sure you are the exception however.

When someone leaves a meeting, and puts their full opinion on the meeting on Twitter, it's a little easier to fill gaps than it would be if say, they didn't put their full opinion on the meeting on Twitter...

[rjsuperfly66]

It was said by a poster earlier that 95% of those getting waivers so far were because they were Run-Off

I'll bet the house that the Mitchell's get their waiver based on the same Run-Off criteria that the 95% have already been based on.

The other 5% I don't care to even research, doesn't matter

And I've said before, I don't fault them for trying, I'm sure it's been abused before and will be abused again. But my original statement was that it's not in the spirit of why the run-off rule was created, which I 100% agree, especially when reading Brennan's eloquent definition from many years ago. That doesn't mean they shouldn't go for it. You have to throw open every door, and it may hit, doesn't make it right, but if others do it, you should to.