Covid-19 Effect on College Basketball & Other Sports

[UCH21377]

I've been reading this thread all along, and it seems to basically reflect today's society. Which is honestly sad. I am a lifelong Democrat, but more a middle of the road sort of person. Fauci is totally wrong; a hoax. Fauci is 100% correct on everything. Is there no middle ground? Gina has a hidden liberal agenda which she suppressed until the other night. Really? Maybe she just screwed up. The virus is going to kill millions; or no it's a total hoax perpetrated by the "deep state", to somehow get Trump out of office. Trump is always right. Trump is always wrong. I heard this morning on the news that cases in No Carolina have spiked; basically out of control. We're heading there soon, so we are interested. Had to go online to find out that it's not the case where we are going. It's sad that I feel I need to read multiple articles to seek out the truth; that no media can be trusted.

Anyway, IMO people need to live their lives. But doesn't it make sense to safeguard yourself against the virus? When I'm outside walking thru the neighborhood, I do not wear a mask. I can keep my distance. Same on the golf course. Thank God for golf!!!! If I'm going to a store, I put the mask on. If URI asks me to wear a mask to games; I will.

Everything is not black or white; one way or the other. Common sense and nuance is required. We don't need to choose sides on every little issue.

Sorry for the rant.

[ramster]

I've been reading this thread all along, and it seems to basically reflect today's society. Which is honestly sad. I am a lifelong Democrat, but more a middle of the road sort of person. Fauci is totally wrong; a hoax. Fauci is 100% correct on everything. Is there no middle ground? Gina has a hidden liberal agenda which she suppressed until the other night. Really? Maybe she just screwed up. The virus is going to kill millions; or no it's a total hoax perpetrated by the "deep state", to somehow get Trump out of office. Trump is always right. Trump is always wrong. I heard this morning on the news that cases in No Carolina have spiked; basically out of control. We're heading there soon, so we are interested. Had to go online to find out that it's not the case where we are going. It's sad that I feel I need to read multiple articles to seek out the truth; that no media can be trusted.

Anyway, IMO people need to live their lives. But doesn't it make sense to safeguard yourself against the virus? When I'm outside walking thru the neighborhood, I do not wear a mask. I can keep my distance. Same on the golf course. Thank God for golf!!!! If I'm going to a store, I put the mask on. If URI asks me to wear a mask to games; I will.

Everything is not black or white; one way or the other. Common sense and nuance is required. We don't need to choose sides on every little issue.

Sorry for the rant.

Good points. Even when we talk basketball here it often seems you have to be all one way or the other. People who don't toe the party line such as GBG, Rhody72, Slim, JustKenny and others seem to get beat up pretty bad and some tend to retreat from posting. I don't necessarily agree with 72 and GBG but I do like to read different views.

For today's society it's much different from when I grew up. We listened to Walter Cronkite, Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, Harry Reasoner, Paul Harvey on the radio and the local news on ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates.The news was only an hour and listeners were allowed and encouraged to draw their own conclusions, actually make their own interpretations.

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

So news tells you how you should think and it's 24 hours. Plus now there is the instant news on the Internet and twitter is out of control.

I long for the old days when it comes to the news.

[PeterRamTime]

I've been reading this thread all along, and it seems to basically reflect today's society. Which is honestly sad. I am a lifelong Democrat, but more a middle of the road sort of person. Fauci is totally wrong; a hoax. Fauci is 100% correct on everything. Is there no middle ground? Gina has a hidden liberal agenda which she suppressed until the other night. Really? Maybe she just screwed up. The virus is going to kill millions; or no it's a total hoax perpetrated by the "deep state", to somehow get Trump out of office. Trump is always right. Trump is always wrong. I heard this morning on the news that cases in No Carolina have spiked; basically out of control. We're heading there soon, so we are interested. Had to go online to find out that it's not the case where we are going. It's sad that I feel I need to read multiple articles to seek out the truth; that no media can be trusted.

Anyway, IMO people need to live their lives. But doesn't it make sense to safeguard yourself against the virus? When I'm outside walking thru the neighborhood, I do not wear a mask. I can keep my distance. Same on the golf course. Thank God for golf!!!! If I'm going to a store, I put the mask on. If URI asks me to wear a mask to games; I will.

Everything is not black or white; one way or the other. Common sense and nuance is required. We don't need to choose sides on every little issue.

Sorry for the rant.

Good points. Even when we talk basketball here it often seems you have to be all one way or the other. People who don't toe the party line such as GBG, Rhody72, Slim, JustKenny and others seem to get beat up pretty bad and some tend to retreat from posting. I don't necessarily agree with 72 and GBG but I do like to read different views.

For today's society it's much different from when I grew up. We listened to Walter Cronkite, Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, Harry Reasoner, Paul Harvey on the radio and the local news on ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates.The news was only an hour and listeners were allowed and encouraged to draw their own conclusions, actually make their own interpretations.

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

So news tells you how you should think and it's 24 hours. Plus now there is the instant news on the Internet and twitter is out of control.

I long for the old days when it comes to the news.

It's the news and really social media that is the main culprit for much of the radicalization going on. Its easy for someone to get brainwashed down their own particular rabbit hole. There are constant click bait headlines designed to get people riled up to generate those clicks to generate money.

Social media is dreadful for peoples mental health.
A breeding ground for vitriol and hatred.

The only place ive found nuance is through YouTube. You can educate yourself on just about anything on there. Of course you can fall down a rabbit hole on there, but so long as you try to keep understanding your biases then you should find some truth in there.

And then, a lot of people are just too dumb for nuance and prefer the rabbit holes! Easier to find your identity that way and a purpose to your meaningless life.

[rhodyfan3000]

Gina has a hidden liberal agenda which she suppressed until the other night. Really? Maybe she just screwed up.

Oh, I am so sorry that I offended your sensibilities. I just think it is a case of a leopard cannot change their spots. Not so much a "hidden liberal agenda" as much as, to be a politician in the modern age, it necessitates that you be a true believer. She ran out there almost giddy to take part. So much so, that she forgot to wear a mask even after her incessant daily briefings, that she had previously become quite famous for.

Of course, let's make sure we employ two people, one at the entrance and exit of each Walmart to record how many people come in and out and that each person wear a mask and stand at least 6 feet apart, because it's always one rule for the rest of us, and another rule for the worthy cause. Especially if that worthy cause includes a photo op

[rjsuperfly66]

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

Ramster, I think this is a great point and I think it's true about everything.

Growing up as a kid, I used to watch 30 minute (I believe) Sportscenter on repeat. I can remember being 7 years old, watching the same replays over and over, of the same games, but I enjoyed it as I can remember acting out what I was seeing as far as highlights in the living room or going outside.

Fast forward 10-11 years, I'm in college (2007-2008), often going to breakfast after class. Sportscenter is minimal highlights, mostly opinionated panels of people talking.

Fast forward to today, I don't typically go out of my way to put on Sportscenter, but every time I flip by, it's more and more panels. ESPN2, Fox Sports, filled to the gills with talk shows.

Not just that, but the focus is on "popular topics," endless chatter about LeBron James and the Lakers, for example, or Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving last year. When is the last time you heard one of these panels give good, in-depth basketball-related analysis where you felt like you learned something about the game?

I think it's the same thing as the news -- These stations all want to drive the most viewers possible to them. Having ESPN panels giving breakdowns of the Denver Nuggets isn't as interesting as talking about everytime Lebron has a bowel movement. Fox News became an outlet to pull conservative viewers, and CNN/MSNBC starting pulling in the other direction. Maximizing viewers is about talking about things where they think they can draw the most interest. Down with the facts, in with the opinions.

There is currently no place for the average person to go and get the facts and only the facts, whether it's news, sports, pop culture, etc.

[JimSidd]

Back in the day when there was just ABC, CBS and NBC for news outlets, the news was a loss leader at these networks. They made their money on prime time shows, so they could report news with no bias or agenda. Once there became more competition in news and cable and then streaming platforms gave people more options for prime time viewing, the big three no longer made as much in prime time and their news turned more to a for profit endeavor. In my opinion, this is one of the big problems with news delivery today. It would be difficult for a network to do a hard hitting expose on pharmaceutical companies when just about every commercial they run is drug related.

[rjsuperfly66]

I don't think I'd have as much a problem with it if they at least had balanced panels -- like even if the host is a strongly liberal/conservative, and addressing topics that appeal to those people, but the panel was 2 republicans, 2 democrats, at least there could be some balanced debate. I get nothing out of watching a liberal/conservative host interviewing 2 or 4 or 6 people who share the same strong opinions.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

There is currently no place for the average person to go and get the facts and only the facts, whether it's news, sports, pop culture, etc.

It's a big job, but I will volunteer to be that place you can go to get all the facts you need about news, sports, pop culture, etc.
You're welcome.

[rhodylaw]

Back in the day when there was just ABC, CBS and NBC for news outlets, the news was a loss leader at these networks. They made their money on prime time shows, so they could report news with no bias or agenda. Once there became more competition in news and cable and then streaming platforms gave people more options for prime time viewing, the big three no longer made as much in prime time and their news turned more to a for profit endeavor. In my opinion, this is one of the big problems with news delivery today. It would be difficult for a network to do a hard hitting expose on pharmaceutical companies when just about every commercial they run is drug related.

I always think those stations had a liberal bias, they just were a lot less open about it before Fox came in. When Fox News came in originally it was obviously biased towards conservative thinking but it wasn’t over the top. It was shocking to see because no one had ever seen news with a conservative slant. Years of being called evil for having a conservative tilt does something to people who run the network and I think they just gave up trying to be anywhere near the middle. Fox, CNN, MSNBC are all now have just given up and become what the other guy has been claiming they were.

[Ramulous]

Most of these networks target their own perceived target audience....and cover things in a way that will keep those viewers watching....they are all making money with 25-35% of the total audience....

[ramster]

Most of these networks target their own perceived target audience....and cover things in a way that will keep those viewers watching....they are all making money with 25-35% of the total audience....

It's 24/7 reality TV, get ratings at any expense. So you market to the Left, market to the Right and it's like PC vs URI Fans or Red Sox vs Yankee Fans

But the news should be objective like it was in the Walter Cronkite days. Let people see the news for what it is, not what somebody from a biased TV Network twists it into to feed the target audience whether its the Left or the Right it's the same twisting that takes place

I'd like to see a News Network that simply reports the news with no prejudice. A Network geared towards Independent Voters.

[CHICO 78]

The news is more spin than fact now. The liberal stations are puppets for the Dem's and
Fox is a puppet for Trump and the GOP. As a former mayor of NY stated so eloquently.
Fact isn't Fact!!!
The only thing they want to tell us is what we need to hear to be bent to their agenda.
That's why they muzzle the scientists as much as possible. They actually often tell the
truth or something reasonably close to it and no politician wants that. In some cases
neither does the audience.

If you really want to know the abject truth you need to focus on FACEBOOK and Twitter.
That's where the real facts are found!!! (sarcasm alert!!)

[Obadiah]

Most of these networks target their own perceived target audience....and cover things in a way that will keep those viewers watching....they are all making money with 25-35% of the total audience....

It's 24/7 reality TV, get ratings at any expense. So you market to the Left, market to the Right and it's like PC vs URI Fans or Red Sox vs Yankee Fans

But the news should be objective like it was in the Walter Cronkite days. Let people see the news for what it is, not what somebody from a biased TV Network twists it into to feed the target audience whether its the Left or the Right it's the same twisting that takes place

I'd like to see a News Network that simply reports the news with no prejudice. A Network geared towards Independent Voters.

Can't disagree with your overall sentiment, but it ignores the factual situation on the street. Are you saying an unbiased network has to have equal criticism of both sides of the political spectrum to be fair. But how does that square with the daily fact that one side (usually the side in power) is more often than not pushing opinions and actions that are counter to democracy. The problem in America is not simply polarization, but rather that many recent government actions are anti majoritarian. Just one example, for over 60 years Americans have overwhelming favored moves (+80%) for clean air and clean water, so when you use your power position to run counter to those sentiments, you are taking actions subversive to the democratic process.

One last analogy on the issue of bias - before every PC-URI game, a PC fan, biased and emotional, claims his team is better. So it goes with a URI fan, also biased and emotional. But you know what, at the completion of the game, one of those "biased and emotional" fans is correct. Being biased does not automatically mean your view is to be discounted.

[rhodylaw]

The news is more spin than fact now. The liberal stations are puppets for the Dem's and
Fox is a puppet for Trump and the GOP. As a former mayor of NY stated so eloquently.
Fact isn't Fact!!!
The only thing they want to tell us is what we need to hear to be bent to their agenda.
That's why they muzzle the scientists as much as possible. They actually often tell the
truth or something reasonably close to it and no politician wants that. In some cases
neither does the audience.

If you really want to know the abject truth you need to focus on FACEBOOK and Twitter.
That's where the real facts are found!!! (sarcasm alert!!)

You had me until you brought up the scientists - they are trotted out there to push political agendas as they have been for centuries. Much like ordinary people, most scientists have an underlying bias that is shown in their work and required to maintain their funding. Unfortunately we have a large swath of society now that is out there saying you don't believe in science if you question their work. Unwavering belief in "science" makes it no longer science. It makes science a religion. There are no facts in science - there are theories that are constantly tested and constantly changing. 300 years from now (assuming the human race still exists) people will be laughing at the things some of us thought were fact.

[sf2010]

Well said Obie. The truth very often isn’t “neutral.”

[Ramulous]

Another factor in the polarization of the media is the proliferation of "news" networks.....in the olden days there was ABC, CBS, and NBC...and they only did national news for a half hour a day....so a lot of the chatter wasn't present....now with 24 hour news cycles, twitter, instagram, MyFace, etc., they need to fill that time with "content" including commentary from experts who we would have never heard from....

...we aint going back to those days.....we are heading even further into the abyss....

[rjsuperfly66]

Can't disagree with your overall sentiment, but it ignores the factual situation on the street. Are you saying an unbiased network has to have equal criticism of both sides of the political spectrum to be fair. But how does that square with the daily fact that one side (usually the side in power) is more often than not pushing opinions and actions that are counter to democracy.

I can't speak for Ramster, but I think the ideal situation is as follows:

News Reporter: "Today, the senate passed ___ which allows for ____. What this means is ___ (factual explanation). We have ___ and ____ (2 democrats) and ____ and ____ (2 republicans) here to discuss."

Obviously in a party-line vote scenario, one party (and likely it's supporters) is going to like something and how it was written, and the other party (and likely it's supporters) is not.

For an unbiased person, it would be nice to hear both sides, argued equally, and come up with my opinion of why or why not that bill being passed is good.

This is our reality today:

News Reporter: "Today, the senate passed ___ which allows for ____. What this means is ___ (biased, likely opinionated description). We have ___ and ____ (2-4 members of party that identifies with that network) here to discuss."

And for the next 5-10 minutes, we hear about how it's so great, or about how it's so terrible, depending on who that network sides with.

That is not the news. It's opinion, reinforced only by people who share that opinion.

[RF1]

Spread of Covid-19 from UVM game more extensive than thought
https://vtdigger.org/2020/06/10/spread- ... n-thought/

The spread of Covid-19 associated with a University of Vermont men’s basketball playoff game appears to be more extensive than was previously reported. Ten more people who attended the March 10 game said they later experienced symptoms, bringing the total to at least 16 Vermonters. Three of them have died of the virus.

[URI_05]

And so it begins:

[Rhody74]

And so it begins:

There’s been a new spike Covid 19 cases in the Houston area (among other areas). Let that be a warning to those who think Gina is opening up too slowly.

[rhodyruckus]

Spread of Covid-19 from UVM game more extensive than thought
https://vtdigger.org/2020/06/10/spread- ... n-thought/

The spread of Covid-19 associated with a University of Vermont men’s basketball playoff game appears to be more extensive than was previously reported. Ten more people who attended the March 10 game said they later experienced symptoms, bringing the total to at least 16 Vermonters. Three of them have died of the virus.

Wow that's shocking. I went to the last Celtics game at TD Garden this season on March 8th and we stopped at a few bars beforehand, never got symptoms although in retrospect I had to have been encountering a non-zero amount of people who had the virus between concessions, restrooms, etc.

As far as the media bias, I've been seeing a few of these "bias triangles" around in various forms such as this from MarketWatch (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-b ... 2018-02-28).

Anyway, I'm done with making my feelings known on Covid reopening overall so back to the actual subject! If there is a "second wave" I think it will start to become apparent by September/October. This is the tipping point of the IMHE Covid model as seen here (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america). While the average modeled daily death toll is only a modest increase as we move from the summer into cooler weather, the min/max difference is enormous. Like if we are close to the max realm of possibilities, that could halt the college football season, which is the biggest moneymaker and what the NCAA wants to see proceed at all most costs.

But from a basketball perspective, we do have a leg up on the football schedule. We'll have a really good road map of the numbers by the time tip off of the regular season is in sight. My sense is that TV money would be tough to turn down especially with the relatively captive audience like we saw for the Jordan doc. (I still think people will only be around 50-75% back to freely going out with a large contingent still erring on the side of staying home for their entertainment.) Even if arenas need to be empty, I think the conferences and NCAA will want that TV money and will be fine with keeping the teams in a relative bubble to avoid large scale cases. Or conversely, the schools will pull an Alabama and go for herd immunity amongst the team and hope no one gets a severe case

[NYGFan_Section208]

Or conversely, the schools will pull an Alabama and go for herd immunity amongst the team and hope no one gets a severe case

I think that's the play... I can't say it's a horrible idea...

[rhodyruckus]

Or conversely, the schools will pull an Alabama and go for herd immunity amongst the team and hope no one gets a severe case

I think that's the play... I can't say it's a horrible idea...

The percentages are in your favor, but if all thousands of athletes go through that, there will be a few who have severe and/or deadly cases. There's a wrongful death lawsuit in there somewhere for the "offending" school and just hope it wouldn't be us.

Looking at the Covid compilation of cases/deaths, the US Military grouping has the best % fatality at 0.3% of cases. If you figure basketball players are closer to the fitness of the military than average population then 350 D1 schools x 12 players = 4200 total x 0.3% = 12 deaths.

Maybe there are zero deaths by happenstance or a treatment to at least calm down the most severe symptoms is found within a few months. It is a risk assessment a lot of schools will have to evaluate, although a risk-averse state school like ours will likely take the maximum precautions and not rely on the herd immunity route. While based on treatment of the general student population Liberty University will have the players share each other's drinks to run it through quickly.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Or conversely, the schools will pull an Alabama and go for herd immunity amongst the team and hope no one gets a severe case

I think that's the play... I can't say it's a horrible idea...

The percentages are in your favor, but if all thousands of athletes go through that, there will be a few who have severe and/or deadly cases. There's a wrongful death lawsuit in there somewhere for the "offending" school and just hope it wouldn't be us.

Looking at the Covid compilation of cases/deaths, the US Military grouping has the best % fatality at 0.3% of cases. If you figure basketball players are closer to the fitness of the military than average population then 350 D1 schools x 12 players = 4200 total x 0.3% = 12 deaths.

Maybe there are zero deaths by happenstance or a treatment to at least calm down the most severe symptoms is found within a few months. It is a risk assessment a lot of schools will have to evaluate, although a risk-averse state school like ours will likely take the maximum precautions and not rely on the herd immunity route. While based on treatment of the general student population Liberty University will have the players share each other's drinks to run it through quickly.

Appreciate that but, I think we're on the herd immunity route whether we like it or not. Outcome is going to be the same.
'Not relying on the herd immunity route" probably just means 'relying on the herd immunity route to take longer.'

[Billyboy78]

Regarding football, there are many obese players who weigh over 300 lbs on every team. Some of them are most likely diabetic. Good luck when it spreads through that segment of the team.

[rhodyruckus]

I think that's the play... I can't say it's a horrible idea...

The percentages are in your favor, but if all thousands of athletes go through that, there will be a few who have severe and/or deadly cases. There's a wrongful death lawsuit in there somewhere for the "offending" school and just hope it wouldn't be us.

Looking at the Covid compilation of cases/deaths, the US Military grouping has the best % fatality at 0.3% of cases. If you figure basketball players are closer to the fitness of the military than average population then 350 D1 schools x 12 players = 4200 total x 0.3% = 12 deaths.

Maybe there are zero deaths by happenstance or a treatment to at least calm down the most severe symptoms is found within a few months. It is a risk assessment a lot of schools will have to evaluate, although a risk-averse state school like ours will likely take the maximum precautions and not rely on the herd immunity route. While based on treatment of the general student population Liberty University will have the players share each other's drinks to run it through quickly.

Appreciate that but, I think we're on the herd immunity route whether we like it or not. Outcome is going to be the same.
'Not relying on the herd immunity route" probably just means 'relying on the herd immunity route to take longer.'

I don't disagree that's how behavior in general is leading us. But yes, I think outright promotion of that method by universities or the NCAA is problematic so far as liability. So those that take the herd route are going to be unspoken about it. Although Alabama's actions pretty much gave away what they were doing, when you contrast for example how the Celtics are allowing like 1-2 individual workouts at a time for several weeks before team activities finally start in the July "bubble".

[Rhody74]

Ask Sweden how herd immunity is doing.

[ramster]

The percentages are in your favor, but if all thousands of athletes go through that, there will be a few who have severe and/or deadly cases. There's a wrongful death lawsuit in there somewhere for the "offending" school and just hope it wouldn't be us.

Looking at the Covid compilation of cases/deaths, the US Military grouping has the best % fatality at 0.3% of cases. If you figure basketball players are closer to the fitness of the military than average population then 350 D1 schools x 12 players = 4200 total x 0.3% = 12 deaths.

Maybe there are zero deaths by happenstance or a treatment to at least calm down the most severe symptoms is found within a few months. It is a risk assessment a lot of schools will have to evaluate, although a risk-averse state school like ours will likely take the maximum precautions and not rely on the herd immunity route. While based on treatment of the general student population Liberty University will have the players share each other's drinks to run it through quickly.

Appreciate that but, I think we're on the herd immunity route whether we like it or not. Outcome is going to be the same.
'Not relying on the herd immunity route" probably just means 'relying on the herd immunity route to take longer.'

I don't disagree that's how behavior in general is leading us. But yes, I think outright promotion of that method by universities or the NCAA is problematic so far as liability. So those that take the herd route are going to be unspoken about it. Although Alabama's actions pretty much gave away what they were doing, when you contrast for example how the Celtics are allowing like 1-2 individual workouts at a time for several weeks before team activities finally start in the July "bubble".

Why wouldn’t the schools lawyers simply create waiver forms that players sign? Nobody is forcing the players to play football. They can opt out. We sign waivers for cruise ships, little league, running 10k’s and marathons, etc etc.

[Obadiah]

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

Ramster, I think this is a great point and I think it's true about everything.

Growing up as a kid, I used to watch 30 minute (I believe) Sportscenter on repeat. I can remember being 7 years old, watching the same replays over and over, of the same games, but I enjoyed it as I can remember acting out what I was seeing as far as highlights in the living room or going outside.

Fast forward 10-11 years, I'm in college (2007-2008), often going to breakfast after class. Sportscenter is minimal highlights, mostly opinionated panels of people talking.

Fast forward to today, I don't typically go out of my way to put on Sportscenter, but every time I flip by, it's more and more panels. ESPN2, Fox Sports, filled to the gills with talk shows.

Not just that, but the focus is on "popular topics," endless chatter about LeBron James and the Lakers, for example, or Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving last year. When is the last time you heard one of these panels give good, in-depth basketball-related analysis where you felt like you learned something about the game?

I think it's the same thing as the news -- These stations all want to drive the most viewers possible to them. Having ESPN panels giving breakdowns of the Denver Nuggets isn't as interesting as talking about everytime Lebron has a bowel movement. Fox News became an outlet to pull conservative viewers, and CNN/MSNBC starting pulling in the other direction. Maximizing viewers is about talking about things where they think they can draw the most interest. Down with the facts, in with the opinions.

There is currently no place for the average person to go and get the facts and only the facts, whether it's news, sports, pop culture, etc.

I find your comments overly simplistic. While on the surface, objectivity and balance have values, they are not a journalistic "sine quo non". What makes journalism powerful is moral clarity and fairness, not absolutism over the "both sides" mantra. If you don't believe that, then on the altar of objectivity a person would have allowed Hitler and Goebbels the airtime to justify their views on genocide. Or if you prefer a more recent example, give the Serbs the opportunity to explain their exterminations of the Muslims in the Bosnian war. Evil is evil. You may describe it, but you don't give air to its falsehoods.

[luke]

If you are going to discuss cable news channels i think it is pertinent to point out that Fox News was created by and directed by a Republican operative ,
Roger Ailes and funded by Ruppert Murdoch . Their goal was to present the Republican conservative point of view and only this view and it continues
to this day . CNN is not Left or right wing in its goals nor is MSNBC left wing or right wing in its goals . there are hosts on CNN and MSNBC who present
a more liberal point of view such as Rachel Maddow , Chris Hayes and Lawrence Odonnell . CNN has Don Lemon andChris Cuomo who offer a more Liberal
point of view . But MSNBC also has hosts such as Steve Kornacki and Chuck Todd who present a more conservative view . CNN has John King and
Anderson Cooper who also present a more conservative view . Fox News however has zero hosts who present anything other than the Republican
Party line because Fox News was established solely to promote the Republican Party . CNN and MSNBC have former Republican politicians as well as Democrats as on air contributors . Fox News has zero Democrats as on air contributors . If you watch fox News regularly and don't understand this,
you may believe you are getting a left wing slant from CNN/MSNBC when in fact it is just not right wing propaganda. I am sure I will hear from some who are Fox News
watchers who will insist that this is all not true because you have a conservative view and do not want to hear any facts that contradict what you hear
on Fox News . But are you aware of how and why and by whom Fox News was created ? If you are aware then how would you expect anything different ?
CNN and MSNBC were not created by A Democratic operative or funded by Democrats . They have always been corporate entities and they offer many
points of view. Just because Fox News deliberately slants does not mean there is an equally slanted point coming from other networks . it is in no way equal. I don't mean for this to be a political discussion , but instead to refute the idea that there are both left wing and right wing news outlets. there
is only a right wing news outlet and other news outlets that offer different viewpoints from both sides of the political spectrum . I do agree that sports networks spend too much of their time offering opinion programming and less on the sports news of the day.

[Rhodymob05]

Cnn and msnbc are ridiculous lol. Used to think CNN was the middle ground. Not anymore.

[NYGFan_Section208]

If you are going to discuss cable news channels i think it is pertinent to point out that Fox News was created by and directed by a Republican operative ,
Roger Ailes and funded by Ruppert Murdoch . Their goal was to present the Republican conservative point of view and only this view and it continues
to this day . CNN is not Left or right wing in its goals nor is MSNBC left wing or right wing in its goals . there are hosts on CNN and MSNBC who present
a more liberal point of view such as Rachel Maddow , Chris Hayes and Lawrence Odonnell . CNN has Don Lemon andChris Cuomo who offer a more Liberal
point of view . But MSNBC also has hosts such as Steve Kornacki and Chuck Todd who present a more conservative view . CNN has John King and
Anderson Cooper who also present a more conservative view . Fox News however has zero hosts who present anything other than the Republican
Party line because Fox News was established solely to promote the Republican Party . CNN and MSNBC have former Republican politicians as well as Democrats as on air contributors . Fox News has zero Democrats as on air contributors . If you watch fox News regularly and don't understand this,
you may believe you are getting a left wing slant from CNN/MSNBC when in fact it is just not right wing propaganda. I am sure I will hear from some who are Fox News
watchers who will insist that this is all not true because you have a conservative view and do not want to hear any facts that contradict what you hear
on Fox News . But are you aware of how and why and by whom Fox News was created ? If you are aware then how would you expect anything different ?
CNN and MSNBC were not created by A Democratic operative or funded by Democrats . They have always been corporate entities and they offer many
points of view. Just because Fox News deliberately slants does not mean there is an equally slanted point coming from other networks . it is in no way equal. I don't mean for this to be a political discussion , but instead to refute the idea that there are both left wing and right wing news outlets. there
is only a right wing news outlet and other news outlets that offer different viewpoints from both sides of the political spectrum . I do agree that sports networks spend too much of their time offering opinion programming and less on the sports news of the day.

This might be the funniest thing I've read all week, Luke

"CNN is not Left or right wing in its goals nor is MSNBC left wing or right wing in its goals"

The goals for all of these networks - regardless of how they were created - is profit. And if you don't have personalities hard-pressing a partisan agenda, you're not making any...

[luke]

Well yes I agree with you Dave that their main goal is profits and the hosts do press a partisan agenda.

[rhodyfan3000]

This is the same Chuck Todd who last month was forced to publicly apologize for his "creative" editing of Bill Barr's comment on Mike Flynn?

Not that anyone actually believed his hollow apology, but the significant thing was that he was forced to issue one, sincere or not, bringing shame upon himself and MSNBC.

[Obadiah]

Luke is correct in his characterization and origin of Fox News which many feel is a not a news organization at all, but a political entity. Sean Hannity participating in Trump rallies is just one manifestation of this.

But also damning to Fox News credibility are the results of two independent studies of the audiences of eight leading broadcast news outlets. The first study found that of the eight news outlets, Fox News audiences held more incorrect information than the viewers of any other outlet. Fox not only came in dead last, they held that position by a wide margin over #7. The second study found that Fox News audience is composed predominantly of low-effort readers. As a fact based person who admires hard work and in-depth analysis on all sides of opinion, I found this latter result to be most disturbing.

[rhodyruckus]

Appreciate that but, I think we're on the herd immunity route whether we like it or not. Outcome is going to be the same.
'Not relying on the herd immunity route" probably just means 'relying on the herd immunity route to take longer.'

I don't disagree that's how behavior in general is leading us. But yes, I think outright promotion of that method by universities or the NCAA is problematic so far as liability. So those that take the herd route are going to be unspoken about it. Although Alabama's actions pretty much gave away what they were doing, when you contrast for example how the Celtics are allowing like 1-2 individual workouts at a time for several weeks before team activities finally start in the July "bubble".

Why wouldn’t the schools lawyers simply create waiver forms that players sign? Nobody is forcing the players to play football. They can opt out. We sign waivers for cruise ships, little league, running 10k’s and marathons, etc etc.

The schools can, but for a basketball example you can bet Fatts along with anyone who has a professional future (top 100 to 200 college players) would sit out the season if they had to release liability. While players can take out their own insurance policies with respect to injuries and recovery of future earnings, I don't believe any such policy would cover Covid.

I see a loose parallel with willingly throwing the kids together without testing to the Notre Dame football practice lightning strike death lawsuit. It's so easy to take preparations by testing right away and making sure everyone's negative or the positives are quarantined before congregating for practice a week or two later, just like it's easy to postpone practice if a lightning storm approaches.

[rjsuperfly66]

Now there is MSNBC and CNN on the far left and Fox News (Fair and Balanced?) on the Far Right. It goes on 24/7 - with none of these stations every letting up defending the left and the right or attacking the other side. It is depressing and nauseating to listen to these stations. I used to like CNN as more middle of the road but no more.

Ramster, I think this is a great point and I think it's true about everything.

Growing up as a kid, I used to watch 30 minute (I believe) Sportscenter on repeat. I can remember being 7 years old, watching the same replays over and over, of the same games, but I enjoyed it as I can remember acting out what I was seeing as far as highlights in the living room or going outside.

Fast forward 10-11 years, I'm in college (2007-2008), often going to breakfast after class. Sportscenter is minimal highlights, mostly opinionated panels of people talking.

Fast forward to today, I don't typically go out of my way to put on Sportscenter, but every time I flip by, it's more and more panels. ESPN2, Fox Sports, filled to the gills with talk shows.

Not just that, but the focus is on "popular topics," endless chatter about LeBron James and the Lakers, for example, or Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving last year. When is the last time you heard one of these panels give good, in-depth basketball-related analysis where you felt like you learned something about the game?

I think it's the same thing as the news -- These stations all want to drive the most viewers possible to them. Having ESPN panels giving breakdowns of the Denver Nuggets isn't as interesting as talking about everytime Lebron has a bowel movement. Fox News became an outlet to pull conservative viewers, and CNN/MSNBC starting pulling in the other direction. Maximizing viewers is about talking about things where they think they can draw the most interest. Down with the facts, in with the opinions.

There is currently no place for the average person to go and get the facts and only the facts, whether it's news, sports, pop culture, etc.

I find your comments overly simplistic. While on the surface, objectivity and balance have values, they are not a journalistic "sine quo non". What makes journalism powerful is moral clarity and fairness, not absolutism over the "both sides" mantra. If you don't believe that, then on the altar of objectivity a person would have allowed Hitler and Goebbels the airtime to justify their views on genocide. Or if you prefer a more recent example, give the Serbs the opportunity to explain their exterminations of the Muslims in the Bosnian war. Evil is evil. You may describe it, but you don't give air to its falsehoods.

Of course, I agree with that. My comments were more about domestic decisions. Bad is obviously bad, and I’m not suggesting we try to balance out all events, just have balanced panels from a conservative/liberal perspective. If something is terrible, they should all condemn it. If there is a reason someone does not condemn it, I can decide for myself what I think of the arguments from the panel. We call it what it is. If the President makes an unpopular decision, party lines can give views of both sides. Let’s me make a more informed opinion for myself, not what the network wants me to see.

[Billyboy78]

[URI_05]

[Running Ram]

What happens when seasons get underway and team's have to start taking "covid forfeits"? I sort of wish I could fast forward or rip van winkle or whatever, but things change so fast now, I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to catch up when I woke up.

[Billyboy78]

I think most sports will start seasons. The question is, how many will finish?

[DeanDome88]

Ask Sweden how herd immunity is doing.

Ask Michigan how strict lockdown is working out? I am not sure government edicts are the answer once the virus gets established in your area.

The worst thing about the government shutting things down is waiting for them to figure out how to open things back up without looking bad. At my condo complex the state shut the swimming pool down before it was open for the season and now the rules are apparently more than the HOA wants to deal with and they left it unavailable to us even though it's being maintained under contract. The pool water has chemicals and you are out in the sun. It's not exactly a virus incubator. Of course private property has tougher rules than the state has for its own property. It's just ridiculous and the state is finding ways to spend the corona virus federal funds by gaming the unemployment system. Pathetic.

[theblueram]

How many of these players are sick? Probably none of them.This is the thing. The majority of people may have it but it doesn't affect them. If your 60,70,80,90 with bad health, stay home. It doesn't affect healthy people bad. Heck, the majority of people in RI who died are in nursing homes. And only 800 people have died in RI. Yet we have been shut down. Insanity.

[RF1]

It is insanity that some people still downplay this virus given some 120,000 American lives have now been taken and the toll continues to climb. I guess some people don't care if others die as long as they are not personally affected.

[DeanDome88]

It is insanity that some people still downplay this virus given some 120,000 American lives have now been taken and the toll continues to climb. I guess some people don't care if others die as long as they are not personally affected.

You guessed wrong. Try to consider the big picture and not just the consequences of somebody dealing with the virus.

[theblueram]

It is insanity that some people still downplay this virus given some 120,000 American lives have now been taken and the toll continues to climb. I guess some people don't care if others die as long as they are not personally affected.

I had someone ask me if I have been to a restaurant yet lol. Asked me how it was. I said it was just like January. Like I said, the flu on steroids. 50k deaths more than the flu.

[rambone 78]

It is insanity that some people still downplay this virus given some 120,000 American lives have now been taken and the toll continues to climb. I guess some people don't care if others die as long as they are not personally affected.

I had someone ask me if I have been to a restaurant yet lol. Asked me how it was. I said it was just like January. Like I said, the flu on steroids. 50k deaths more than the flu.

It's insanity that blueram can't seem to understand that if there were as many covid infections as the flu, then the number of deaths from covid would be MANY times the number that dies from the flu.

20-40 times more, at least. Simple facts. You can't compare apples and oranges, but you continue to try to do so.

[URI_05]

It is insanity that some people still downplay this virus given some 120,000 American lives have now been taken and the toll continues to climb. I guess some people don't care if others die as long as they are not personally affected.

I had someone ask me if I have been to a restaurant yet lol. Asked me how it was. I said it was just like January. Like I said, the flu on steroids. 50k deaths more than the flu.

This shit is getting old. You’re a parody of yourself at this point. 50k deaths worse than the worst flu we’ve had in years, and climbing. Knock it off.

[URI_05]

Sadly Luke the hysteria has already done more damage. I got out of the market at Dow 26,700. Cause I knew this is where it was going. It's a glorified flu and 100,000 have it. Get that. 100,000. Worldwide. 1,100 in the US out of 350 million people. Insane.

Talk about moving goalposts. Holy shit.

[PeteRI]

Ask Sweden how herd immunity is doing.

Ask Michigan how strict lockdown is working out? I am not sure government edicts are the answer once the virus gets established in your area.

The worst thing about the government shutting things down is waiting for them to figure out how to open things back up without looking bad. At my condo complex the state shut the swimming pool down before it was open for the season and now the rules are apparently more than the HOA wants to deal with and they left it unavailable to us even though it's being maintained under contract. The pool water has chemicals and you are out in the sun. It's not exactly a virus incubator. Of course private property has tougher rules than the state has for its own property. It's just ridiculous and the state is finding ways to spend the corona virus federal funds by gaming the unemployment system. Pathetic.

Sorry about your pool. That's ridiculous. My condo has 22 units and our pool is operating safely with the 15 or fewer people rule and appropriate social distancing.