Roster Management

[steveystuds06]

Should the team even show up Saturday? Greg Hammond played 3 minutes in the last six games. 3!!!! THE SEASON IS OVER!!!!

All joking aside I'm very confused why people are upset. Anyone that thinks this changes the outcome of our season is wrong.

Fatts and Jeff staying healthy will make or break our season. Nothing's changed.

[rambone 78]

Good point 105....but unless Cox explained that to Greg, I could see him being pissed.

Of course it seems like he expected to play meaningful minutes.

[Rhody83]

Agree with Ace. Scholarships are assets. It is important how you utilize all of your assets. Look at the reaction when a coach loses a scholarship because of an NCAA violation. Teams need more than 8 scholarship players available.

Using 2 years of a scholarship for 1 year of play (hopefully) isn’t a good use of an asset.

We learned last year that counting on Fr is risky. Cox has said he wouldn’t do that again.

To project how Hammond would be as a Soph is baseless. Many have posted that Long is a future superstar and he had 1 more good game than Hammond.

We have no idea if Wood will have an impact next year. Cox doesn’t guarantee recruits playing time so there is no way Hammond was told that Leggett and Wood would be ahead of him next year.

Most teams are going to miss on recruits or have role players with their last few scholarships. It is not normal to have 8 players leave in 1 1/2 years and 6 leave in the last 12 months. That is too many misses.

There is no second semester player. If you think there is, list any player that has ever enrolled 2nd semester and had an immediate impact at any school. If there was, Cox would’ve tried to land someone as soon as Sheppard was ruled ineligible.

[rambone 78]

Cox has had a few hits and a few misses so far.

The misses have left.

Now he has more opportunities for hits.

If all the misses stayed we would have no quality depth and less chances to land replacements.

So that's a good thing in that regard.

[RIFan]

I would get a new Louisiana scout to look for players the current one has a poor average.

[ace]

Regardless, we must protect Fatts at all cost. Bubble wrap, someone walking ahead of him to salt the walkways through campus, maybe golf cart rides everywhere. Whatever it takes.

Also, if no one volunteers, a draft will be implemented.

[DC_Rams]

Agree with Ace. Scholarships are assets. It is important how you utilize all of your assets. Look at the reaction when a coach loses a scholarship because of an NCAA violation. Teams need more than 8 scholarship players available.

Using 2 years of a scholarship for 1 year of play (hopefully) isn’t a good use of an asset.

We learned last year that counting on Fr is risky. Cox has said he wouldn’t do that again.

To project how Hammond would be as a Soph is baseless. Many have posted that Long is a future superstar and he had 1 more good game than Hammond.

We have no idea if Wood will have an impact next year. Cox doesn’t guarantee recruits playing time so there is no way Hammond was told that Leggett and Wood would be ahead of him next year.

Most teams are going to miss on recruits or have role players with their last few scholarships. It is not normal to have 8 players leave in 1 1/2 years and 6 leave in the last 12 months. That is too many misses.

There is no second semester player. If you think there is, list any player that has ever enrolled 2nd semester and had an immediate impact at any school. If there was, Cox would’ve tried to land someone as soon as Sheppard was ruled ineligible.

We have not lost ONE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT PLAYER!

The guys we lost ultimately didn’t hurt our depth because they weren’t going to play.

CT and Akele are the only two that come to mind but I wouldn’t even call them true “impact” players. Everyone the left went to a lower level school where they believe they could have impact or for personal reasons.

The problem with these broad assessments is that every kid has a distinct story as to why they are no longer here. Not all of them are on the coach.

Akele - went to play PRO BALL.

Mading - undisclosed (personal)

Omar - personal (closer to family)

CT - personal (closer to family, and can start for home state school as a Sr)

Tertsea - was never going to play. Is now playing D2 ball at Gannon.

Aris - a miss.

Adams - followed Hurley

Hammond - who knows.

I’m not sure who I forgot, but none of these players would have won us a game. They were all role players.

We move on. That’s college basketball. Please stop making this more than what it is. These aren’t players in the top 7 of our rotation (outside of CT).

[Blue Man]

Agree with Ace. Scholarships are assets. It is important how you utilize all of your assets. Look at the reaction when a coach loses a scholarship because of an NCAA violation. Teams need more than 8 scholarship players available.

Using 2 years of a scholarship for 1 year of play (hopefully) isn’t a good use of an asset.

We learned last year that counting on Fr is risky. Cox has said he wouldn’t do that again.

To project how Hammond would be as a Soph is baseless. Many have posted that Long is a future superstar and he had 1 more good game than Hammond.

We have no idea if Wood will have an impact next year. Cox doesn’t guarantee recruits playing time so there is no way Hammond was told that Leggett and Wood would be ahead of him next year.

Most teams are going to miss on recruits or have role players with their last few scholarships. It is not normal to have 8 players leave in 1 1/2 years and 6 leave in the last 12 months. That is too many misses.

There is no second semester player. If you think there is, list any player that has ever enrolled 2nd semester and had an immediate impact at any school. If there was, Cox would’ve tried to land someone as soon as Sheppard was ruled ineligible.

We have not lost ONE SIGNIFICANT IMPACT PLAYER!

The guys we lost ultimately didn’t hurt our depth because they weren’t going to play.

CT and Akele are the only two that come to mind but I wouldn’t even call them true “impact” players. Everyone the left went to a lower level school where they believe they could have impact or for personal reasons.

The problem with these broad assessments is that every kid has a distinct story as to why they are no longer here. Not all of them are on the coach.

Akele - went to play PRO BALL.

Mading - undisclosed (personal)

Omar - personal (closer to family)

CT - personal (closer to family, and can start for home state school as a Sr)

Tertsea - was never going to play. Is now playing D2 ball at Gannon.

Aris - a miss.

Adams - followed Hurley

Hammond - who knows.

I’m not sure who I forgot, but none of these players would have won us a game. They were all role players.

We move on. That’s college basketball. Please stop making this more than what it is. These aren’t players in the top 7 of our rotation (outside of CT).

100%.

I am also thankful that this program and coach has reached a point where people are nitpicking roster turnover at the end of the bench. Not even rotation players. Everyone of the Cox guys who left would not have figured into minutes outside of garbage time.

Just be thankful of where we are at this moment in time.

Also thank God basketball is back Saturday.

[Rhody72]

Why can't we get a coach like Jim Baron who brings in deadwood and keeps them on the roster and on scholarship for four years? Any problem we get the rest of the season would have been bad even with the players no longer available because they were not assets anyways. We have the current starting five along with Toppin, Long, Walker and probably Tate. I don't see any deadwood here. Maybe we can get a quality mid-season transfer for next year. I like where our program sits in year two of Cox.

[Blue Man]

Why can't we get a coach like Jim Baron who brings in deadwood and keeps them on the roster and on scholarship for four years? Any problem we get the rest of the season would have been bad even with the players no longer available because they were not assets anyways. We have the current starting five along with Toppin, Long, Walker and probably Tate. I don't see any deadwood here. Maybe we can get a quality mid-season transfer for next year. I like where our program sits in year two of Cox.

PREACH

[Rhody74]

I am worried a bit about depth. We can’t afford any injury or foul trouble. But the rotation looks intact especially if Dana returns soon.

[Blue Man]

I am worried a bit about depth. We can’t afford any injury or foul trouble. But the rotation looks intact especially if Dana returns soon.

Most basketball teams - especially mid/high majors don’t have “depth” like some on this board are saying we need.

One of Hurley’s best and “deepest” teams lost a star to injury and the season was over at that point.

Basketball doesn’t have injuries like football. You typically expect players to be there and if they get hurt, usually they don’t miss much time. It happens infrequently and when it does, it’s a deathknell for 95% of programs. Starters play 75% of the minutes for a reason. You lose a stud your season changes.

Agreed with the notion that the departure of a “miss” opens up another spot for Cox to hit without affecting his starters or main rotation guys.

[The Dude]

I'm bummed to see Hammond go. I liked the Freshman class. I think even Hammond could've developed into a decent player. Most guys aren't ready for a ton of meaningful minutes as Freshman. Obviously have no idea what conversations take place between player and coach, but I was looking forward to seeing this team (every player on it) stick together and grow and improve as the season went on.

[Rhody15]

At least our roster isn’t put together like PCs.

Good lord they STINK.

30+ point lost to Florida.

[ace]

I am worried a bit about depth. We can’t afford any injury or foul trouble. But the rotation looks intact especially if Dana returns soon.

Most basketball teams - especially mid/high majors don’t have “depth” like some on this board are saying we need.

Maybe that’s the disconnect in this pointless conversation. I don’t know if anyone’s actually concerned about the true end of the roster, bring in a different guy or two every year for all I care (please don’t, that would be a terrible waste of recruiting resources). It’s not having a full roster for the sake of having a full roster that’s important. It’s the idea of having four spots that are serving no purpose when any one of them could be an upgrade over the 9 guys they are running out there. The group they have is very solid at its core. Once the games start up again, this talk becomes pointless. They have who they have. The best outcome is that guys like Long and Harris and Toppin and Tate rise to the occasion and make the team even better in the coming seasons for having gotten the experience.

[Kingston]

Could be worse. Could have took a grad transfer from umass thinking he was a savior.

[Rhody83]

I am worried a bit about depth. We can’t afford any injury or foul trouble. But the rotation looks intact especially if Dana returns soon.

Most basketball teams - especially mid/high majors don’t have “depth” like some on this board are saying we need.

Maybe that’s the disconnect in this pointless conversation. I don’t know if anyone’s actually concerned about the true end of the roster, bring in a different guy or two every year for all I care (please don’t, that would be a terrible waste of recruiting resources). It’s not having a full roster for the sake of having a full roster that’s important. It’s the idea of having four spots that are serving no purpose when any one of them could be an upgrade over the 9 guys they are running out there. The group they have is very solid at its core. Once the games start up again, this talk becomes pointless. They have who they have. The best outcome is that guys like Long and Harris and Toppin and Tate rise to the occasion and make the team even better in the coming seasons for having gotten the experience.

Bingo.
I would add to that one of those four spots could have been a useful Guard that could play. It’s easy to say Rhody has a 9 man rotation and that is plenty deep in college BB. But none of the 4 players coming off the bench play Guard.

Edit I missed Toppin.
More importantly as HC the following players have been recruited by Coach Cox and enrolled at URI:
Silverio (gone)
Aris (gone)
Walker
Mading (gone)
Long
Hammond (gone)
Sheppard (ineligible)
Toppin
Johnson (redshirt)


P recruits, 3 can play this year (1 for half year) & 4 are already gone.
That isn’t a good recruiting track record.

[TruePoint]

Ok, but if that’s how you feel I’m just confused about this occasion to talk about it. That was just as true yesterday when Hammond was on the team - they could have given that scholarship to someone that could be helping them (I can’t believe they didn’t think of that or try to do it!). If the concern is that the scholarship could have been taken by a more impactful player, that is water under the bridge once Hammond signed, and his leaving should represent an opportunity to utilize that scholarship even sooner. (The fact that we went into the season with an open scholarship I think proves the point that having signed Hammond or Sheppard didn’t prevent bringing in an impact guy for this year, anyways. That guy just didn’t exist.)

I don’t subscribe to the theory that Hammond leaving is evidence of a mistake in recruiting or talent evaluation. You just don’t know a lot of the time what you’ll get at this level when you recruit high school players. There’s always a degree of uncertainty. I also don’t know what led to his decision to leave or what he or the coaches were seeing in practice, but if either party decided it just isn’t going to work out the way they’d hoped, no harm in moving on. I actually think he could have developed into a good player here so I’m not exactly happy he is leaving, but I also think it won’t be impossible to recruit a replacement of roughly the same caliber with the bonus of another shot at a happy surprise if that guys turns out better than expected.

To me, the churn at the back of the roster doesn’t make me happy or mad, I don’t regard it as inherently good or bad. It’s just the way it works now and we’d probably be better off just accepting it and not trying to retrofit it into whatever larger narrative we are trying to construct.

[Running Ram]

Hammond transferring is just the catalyst for the conversation, no one thinks Hammond was going to step seamlessly in for one of Jeff or Fatts if needed, but let's see us face full court pressure with one of our 3's (martin, long) at the 2, capable ball handlers are important. I think much of this conversation is about talent evaluation and about swings and misses.

I'm sorry, but paint it however you want, there have been some major swings and misses. Sheppard at the top of the list in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to qualify by 1st semester? not good, but ok, what's the contingency? do x,y and z to be eligible for 2nd semester...not likely? wasted scholarship. Facts.

[DC_Rams]

Hammond transferring is just the catalyst for the conversation, no one thinks Hammond was going to step seamlessly in for one of Jeff or Fatts if needed, but let's see us face full court pressure with one of our 3's (martin, long) at the 2, capable ball handlers are important. I think much of this conversation is about talent evaluation and about swings and misses.

I'm sorry, but paint it however you want, there have been some major swings and misses. Sheppard at the top of the list in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to qualify by 1st semester? not good, but ok, what's the contingency? do x,y and z to be eligible for 2nd semester...not likely? wasted scholarship. Facts.

How is it a major swing and miss??? We are recruiting guys to sit on the end of the bench. Those are typically the guys that transfer out of every program. It’s really simple.

[SGreenwell]

Hammond transferring is just the catalyst for the conversation, no one thinks Hammond was going to step seamlessly in for one of Jeff or Fatts if needed, but let's see us face full court pressure with one of our 3's (martin, long) at the 2, capable ball handlers are important. I think much of this conversation is about talent evaluation and about swings and misses.

I'm sorry, but paint it however you want, there have been some major swings and misses. Sheppard at the top of the list in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to qualify by 1st semester? not good, but ok, what's the contingency? do x,y and z to be eligible for 2nd semester...not likely? wasted scholarship. Facts.

I mean, you can judge it how you want, but I don't think URI's roster now is differing from how other teams work, or how past URI squads have worked. The Hurley years had churn at the back of the roster, for a variety of reasons, and we've been the benefit of the churn at times (Robinson from Indiana, Iverson from Memphis, etc.).

If you "hit" on two players a class, that means you have eight rotation players by the end of your first class' senior year. This year, Long and Toppin look like rotation guys at least, and last year, Martin and Tate seem like "hits" to me, provided this suspension is just a blip for the latter. Is this substantially different from other Atlantic 10 programs? It would obviously be nice if we had more depth, but if would also be nice if we had a 7'3" center, or if we had a first round NBA prospect, and so on.

[DC_Rams]

Hammond transferring is just the catalyst for the conversation, no one thinks Hammond was going to step seamlessly in for one of Jeff or Fatts if needed, but let's see us face full court pressure with one of our 3's (martin, long) at the 2, capable ball handlers are important. I think much of this conversation is about talent evaluation and about swings and misses.

I'm sorry, but paint it however you want, there have been some major swings and misses. Sheppard at the top of the list in my opinion. Not sure if he's going to qualify by 1st semester? not good, but ok, what's the contingency? do x,y and z to be eligible for 2nd semester...not likely? wasted scholarship. Facts.

I mean, you can judge it how you want, but I don't think URI's roster now is differing from how other teams work, or how past URI squads have worked. The Hurley years had churn at the back of the roster, for a variety of reasons, and we've been the benefit of the churn at times (Robinson from Indiana, Iverson from Memphis, etc.).

If you "hit" on two players a class, that means you have eight rotation players by the end of your first class' senior year. This year, Long and Toppin look like rotation guys at least, and last year, Martin and Tate seem like "hits" to me, provided this suspension is just a blip for the latter. Is this substantially different from other Atlantic 10 programs? It would obviously be nice if we had more depth, but if would also be nice if we had a 7'3" center, or if we had a first round NBA prospect, and so on.

Exactly.

I feel like people are just clamoring for any controversy they can find. It’s mind boggling.

[DC_Rams]

Ok, but if that’s how you feel I’m just confused about this occasion to talk about it. That was just as true yesterday when Hammond was on the team - they could have given that scholarship to someone that could be helping them (I can’t believe they didn’t think of that or try to do it!). If the concern is that the scholarship could have been taken by a more impactful player, that is water under the bridge once Hammond signed, and his leaving should represent an opportunity to utilize that scholarship even sooner. (The fact that we went into the season with an open scholarship I think proves the point that having signed Hammond or Sheppard didn’t prevent bringing in an impact guy for this year, anyways. That guy just didn’t exist.)

I don’t subscribe to the theory that Hammond leaving is evidence of a mistake in recruiting or talent evaluation. You just don’t know a lot of the time what you’ll get at this level when you recruit high school players. There’s always a degree of uncertainty. I also don’t know what led to his decision to leave or what he or the coaches were seeing in practice, but if either party decided it just isn’t going to work out the way they’d hoped, no harm in moving on. I actually think he could have developed into a good player here so I’m not exactly happy he is leaving, but I also think it won’t be impossible to recruit a replacement of roughly the same caliber with the bonus of another shot at a happy surprise if that guys turns out better than expected.

To me, the churn at the back of the roster doesn’t make me happy or mad, I don’t regard it as inherently good or bad. It’s just the way it works now and we’d probably be better off just accepting it and not trying to retrofit it into whatever larger narrative we are trying to construct.

Bravo, TP.

[Rhody83]

To say that having 8 scholarship players available is the norm in the A10 is just not accurate.
To say Hurley had this level of churn at URI is just not accurate.
Tell me when Hurley had four guys he recruited leave within 12 months of stepping on campus.

If you keep churning players, you keep restarting with that scholarship. Most players need a year of development and need to learn the systems. It’s going back to start almost every time you do that.

Blueman mentioned losing EC and having no answer - I agree with that. Rhody also lost their starting PG to injury the next year (Jarvis) and a Fr who wasn’t playing that much stepped in (Jeff) and helped lead them to the Tournament.

This is about roster management and recruiting players that stay. I agree teams see defections from the last 2-3 spots on their roster every few years. Rhody is losing way more than the average. 8 players over 2 years - 4 players/year x 350 teams = 1,400 transfers/year. I believe there are 700-800 transfers a year.

Moving on. The recruiting process and player retention needs to improve the next few years.

[section(105)]

Here, here.....

[DC_Rams]

To say that having 8 scholarship players available is the norm in the A10 is just not accurate.
To say Hurley had this level of churn at URI is just not accurate.
Tell me when Hurley had four guys he recruited leave within 12 months of stepping on campus.

If you keep churning players, you keep restarting with that scholarship. Most players need a year of development and need to learn the systems. It’s going back to start almost every time you do that.

Blueman mentioned losing EC and having no answer - I agree with that. Rhody also lost their starting PG to injury the next year (Jarvis) and a Fr who wasn’t playing that much stepped in (Jeff) and helped lead them to the Tournament.

This is about roster management and recruiting players that stay. I agree teams see defections from the last 2-3 spots on their roster every few years. Rhody is losing way more than the average. 8 players over 2 years - 4 players/year x 350 teams = 1,400 transfers/year. I believe there are 700-800 transfers a year.

This is beyond short sighted. Once again, you are not distinguishing the reason for the departures. They are not all attributed to the coach. Their are outside factors that cannot be predicted when recruiting anyone. The bone you are picking is baseless, and for the 1000th has not YET, effected the team in any distinct form or fashion.

You’re saying a lot without saying anything.

Churn is the norm. He was able to convince a the so-called “best player in Louisiana” to come be the 8-10 guy on our bench. And the ones before that, same story. Those misses left, now we are back at the plate.

I cannot understand why you are beating this drum so hard? Do you want Cox gone for this? What do you want? To keep guys on the end of the bench? Recruit guys not as touted that are used to be the last guy of the bench? What is your solution/proposal???

Attrition from the top, worrisome. From the bottom, not so much.

[rambone 78]

Well I doubt that Cox convinced Hammond to come to URI to be on the end of the bench.

He doesn't guarantee PT, but Hammond had to think he would play, and play a lot here.

But then Cox signed Leggett and Wood. He had to expect more guards to be signed, there's a need.

If he thought he was going to play a lot as a freshman, well that wasn't working out. Even without Sheppard.

He did imo have potential...how much we'll never know, at least here.

[Rhodymob05]

Whatever happened to "you are a freshman who will eventually earn minutes, be patient"?

[SGreenwell]

Well I doubt that Cox convinced Hammond to come to URI to be on the end of the bench.

He doesn't guarantee PT, but Hammond had to think he would play, and play a lot here.

But then Cox signed Leggett and Wood. He had to expect more guards to be signed, there's a need.

If he thought he was going to play a lot as a freshman, well that wasn't working out. Even without Sheppard.

He did imo have potential...how much we'll never know, at least here.

From past history, and because they're choosing to play Fatts and Dotwin 35 minutes per game, I'm guessing not a ton. What's the last player that transferred that we -really- missed? I'm guessing like, Billy Baron or Reischel.

Obviously, I'd love if we had a stacked recruiting class every year, but 1) there is way more luck and "we don't know" in the process than anyone probably likes to acknowledge and 2) if everyone CAN play, we'd still have problems of a different sort, a la Celtics 2018-19. For me, the benchmark of two rotation players a year deserves a B, with the grade going up or down based on additional quality or if they only get one.

[SGreenwell]

Whatever happened to "you are a freshman who will eventually earn minutes, be patient"?

Competition and the Internet. This isn't 1990, where transferring was a lot trickier, and maybe you were scouting a kid based on word of mouth and what an area coach is telling you. Nowadays, if you want to leave a program, you can post a bunch of your highlights on Twitter, and there is a whole network of Internet touts and AAU coaches and other sorts of connected networks. I doubt Hammond (or before him, Thompson) left without knowing he could go somewhere else, for example, and probably play immediately.

[Rhodymob05]

Whatever happened to "you are a freshman who will eventually earn minutes, be patient"?

Competition and the Internet. This isn't 1990, where transferring was a lot trickier, and maybe you were scouting a kid based on word of mouth and what an area coach is telling you. Nowadays, if you want to leave a program, you can post a bunch of your highlights on Twitter, and there is a whole network of Internet touts and AAU coaches and other sorts of connected networks. I doubt Hammond (or before him, Thompson) left without knowing he could go somewhere else, for example, and probably play immediately.

Unfortunately, this is true and probably makes the coaching staffs job that much more difficult.

[SGreenwell]

Whatever happened to "you are a freshman who will eventually earn minutes, be patient"?

Competition and the Internet. This isn't 1990, where transferring was a lot trickier, and maybe you were scouting a kid based on word of mouth and what an area coach is telling you. Nowadays, if you want to leave a program, you can post a bunch of your highlights on Twitter, and there is a whole network of Internet touts and AAU coaches and other sorts of connected networks. I doubt Hammond (or before him, Thompson) left without knowing he could go somewhere else, for example, and probably play immediately.

Unfortunately, this is true and probably makes the coaching staffs job that much more difficult.

True, but it cuts both ways, of course. We've benefited from guys transferring from bigger programs. Hard to believe that Terrell didn't know he would get good playing time at URI from day one, and I think a lot of consternation about this year's class will go down if Walker is immediately a contributor.

[URIRecruitingInfo]

Players leaving programs is obviously very common these days. Multiple players leaving after one semester when they were recruited by the current coaching staff is not normal. Not at quality programs anyway.

[KevanBoyles]

For what it’s worth, Tony Bennett at UVA went through a ton of players his first two or three years. You may not remember but Billy Barron started at UVA and transferred to URI after his first semester.

[Running Ram]

Ok maybe not "major" swings and misses, also in general I'm impressed with Cox as a second year HC. But I am of the mind that the Sheppard gamble could end up costing us big time, and that is a swing and miss, maybe roll dice if its close on 1st semester, but when 1st semester qualification didn't happen, it was like, 'moving on to next season,' not even a whiff of 2nd semester qualification. Now Hammond goes and we only have 2 scholarship guards on the squad, to me, that's why Hammond transferring is the catalyst for the Sheppard conversation.

[wpbrown8267]

For what it’s worth, Tony Bennett at UVA went through a ton of players his first two or three years. You may not remember but Billy Barron started at UVA and transferred to URI after his first semester.

Good point...then followed his dad (CFL) to Canisius

[wgracie99]

To say that having 8 scholarship players available is the norm in the A10 is just not accurate.
To say Hurley had this level of churn at URI is just not accurate.
Tell me when Hurley had four guys he recruited leave within 12 months of stepping on campus.

If you keep churning players, you keep restarting with that scholarship. Most players need a year of development and need to learn the systems. It’s going back to start almost every time you do that.

Blueman mentioned losing EC and having no answer - I agree with that. Rhody also lost their starting PG to injury the next year (Jarvis) and a Fr who wasn’t playing that much stepped in (Jeff) and helped lead them to the Tournament.

This is about roster management and recruiting players that stay. I agree teams see defections from the last 2-3 spots on their roster every few years. Rhody is losing way more than the average. 8 players over 2 years - 4 players/year x 350 teams = 1,400 transfers/year. I believe there are 700-800 transfers a year.

This is beyond short sighted. Once again, you are not distinguishing the reason for the departures. They are not all attributed to the coach. Their are outside factors that cannot be predicted when recruiting anyone. The bone you are picking is baseless, and for the 1000th has not YET, effected the team in any distinct form or fashion.

You’re saying a lot without saying anything.

Churn is the norm. He was able to convince a the so-called “best player in Louisiana” to come be the 8-10 guy on our bench. And the ones before that, same story. Those misses left, now we are back at the plate.

I cannot understand why you are beating this drum so hard? Do you want Cox gone for this? What do you want? To keep guys on the end of the bench? Recruit guys not as touted that are used to be the last guy of the bench? What is your solution/proposal???

Attrition from the top, worrisome. From the bottom, not so much.

83 had said before the year started that none of the freshmen would play any significant minutes. Because of the Walker situation Long and Toppin did get some minutes and played their way into even more with the Tate situation. Hammond did get a couple (because of Shepard) and did not play his way into more (very slow on D as his man beat him almost every time as he was reaching and grabbing). I wasn't convinced after seeing him that he could even play his way to more than just a bench piece in a year or 2 let alone this year. We are short Shepard's position so you can blame Coach on not foreseeing that situation (that was suppose to be an important piece) but Hammond wanting to leave because of lack of mins well that was suppose to happen anyway this year. The others leaving was not on Coach but the players wanting more of an opportunity to play and you can't blame them or Cox.

[rhodyblue12]

Whatever happened to "you are a freshman who will eventually earn minutes, be patient"?

Competition and the Internet. This isn't 1990, where transferring was a lot trickier, and maybe you were scouting a kid based on word of mouth and what an area coach is telling you. Nowadays, if you want to leave a program, you can post a bunch of your highlights on Twitter, and there is a whole network of Internet touts and AAU coaches and other sorts of connected networks. I doubt Hammond (or before him, Thompson) left without knowing he could go somewhere else, for example, and probably play immediately.

Agree. They key is to be able to counter this by grabbing a kid that initially shot too high and needs to move down from a P5 program because he is never going to play there or was recruited over. Walker is a great example. Targeting one of those per year to augment basic recruiting should be part of any recruiting plan these days.

[DC_Rams]

Ok maybe not "major" swings and misses, also in general I'm impressed with Cox as a second year HC. But I am of the mind that the Sheppard gamble could end up costing us big time, and that is a swing and miss, maybe roll dice if its close on 1st semester, but when 1st semester qualification didn't happen, it was like, 'moving on to next season,' not even a whiff of 2nd semester qualification. Now Hammond goes and we only have 2 scholarship guards on the squad, to me, that's why Hammond transferring is the catalyst for the Sheppard conversation.

Problem is, even if Fatts or Jeff had to sit out, he still wasn’t inserted into the game. He was still the 4th or 5th option off the bench. If we have to go that deep into our bench (our team or any team), in most cases, that spells trouble.

[DeanDome88]

I am not blaming anyone. I would just rather Hammond was still on the team.

[Blue Man]

Most basketball teams - especially mid/high majors don’t have “depth” like some on this board are saying we need.

Maybe that’s the disconnect in this pointless conversation. I don’t know if anyone’s actually concerned about the true end of the roster, bring in a different guy or two every year for all I care (please don’t, that would be a terrible waste of recruiting resources). It’s not having a full roster for the sake of having a full roster that’s important. It’s the idea of having four spots that are serving no purpose when any one of them could be an upgrade over the 9 guys they are running out there. The group they have is very solid at its core. Once the games start up again, this talk becomes pointless. They have who they have. The best outcome is that guys like Long and Harris and Toppin and Tate rise to the occasion and make the team even better in the coming seasons for having gotten the experience.

Bingo.
I would add to that one of those four spots could have been a useful Guard that could play. It’s easy to say Rhody has a 9 man rotation and that is plenty deep in college BB. But none of the 4 players coming off the bench play Guard.

More importantly as HC the following players have been recruited by Coach Cox and enrolled at URI:
Silverio (gone)
Aris (gone)
Walker
Mading (gone)
Long
Hammond (gone)
Sheppard (ineligible)
Johnson (redshirt)

8 recruits, 2 can play this year (1 for half year) & 4 are already gone.
That isn’t a good recruiting track record.

While I can see your point - I like that Cox recruits who he views as the "best" type of player, and not just one that has a G in his position spot. Cox values long, athletic, multi-faceted players. Look at our lineup. He went and found what look to be 2 backcourt STUDS coming in next year. Why he would simply placate a guard with playing time who a) isn't ready, and b) is clearly not going to be a future key to this team, doesn't make sense.

Hammond is a guard. Like Tom Brady said - everyone is given one opportunity and you either take it or you don't. My only memory of Hammond is a 3 point shot off the side of the backboard from the corner. We brought him as a shooter and he may have taken longer to adjust than we hoped.

In terms of opportunity - Long was given one and he shined. Same with Toppin.

Cox runs a competition-based program for minutes. So far I'd say it's working. He's pushed the right buttons this year, and he weathered the Fatts storm from November-February and look where he is now.

I think his track record speaks to itself, as his hits (Toppin, Long) look to be major hits, and his misses (Silverio, Aris, Mading, Hammond) aren't around long enough to cause damage to the program - on the court or off it. Johnson is a redshirt - that happens, no worries there. Sheppard was worth the risk imo. You don't look at grades when you're recruiting these guys, and he had enough talent to fill our gaps to be worth the risk.

We are in a very, very good place right now - both now and in the future. I'm 100% confident that the team Cox puts on the floor is the best possible team we could have.

[bkoeppen]

Ok maybe not "major" swings and misses, also in general I'm impressed with Cox as a second year HC. But I am of the mind that the Sheppard gamble could end up costing us big time, and that is a swing and miss, maybe roll dice if its close on 1st semester, but when 1st semester qualification didn't happen, it was like, 'moving on to next season,' not even a whiff of 2nd semester qualification. Now Hammond goes and we only have 2 scholarship guards on the squad, to me, that's why Hammond transferring is the catalyst for the Sheppard conversation.

Problem is, even if Fatts or Jeff had to sit out, he still wasn’t inserted into the game. He was still the 4th or 5th option off the bench. If we have to go that deep into our bench (our team or any team), in most cases, that spells trouble.

Just a couple thoughts after digesting the news overnight.

- although hammond may not have been part of the puzzle for this team anytime soon, it's unfortunate he transferred mid-season. understand he has to do what's best for him and maybe he gets with another school quickly so he doesn't lose another semester of eligibility, but with all the news coming out yesterday it sucks the team has to deal with another distraction, but it is what it is. between his size and nice range, I would have like to have seen him stick it out, but again, it is what it is.

- getting on Cox for his history of recruiting: There are two types of recruits: one you court through most of their high school years, develop a strong relationship and have a common understanding of what to expect if you come to Rhody, second is the recruit that is reactionary to missing out on your first pick (adams to silverio, bishop to hammond) and a hole you are trying to fill due to a transfer in the spring (sheppard, DJ). If the first type of recruit doesn't work out and transfers very quickly such as a Long or Leggett, more shame on the coach and staff, but the second type of recruit is always risky. A coach doesn't have that much time to react while recruiting the 2nd type of recruit, trying to fill a role for next year, but you're not really sure what you're getting. I'm not saying Cox and his staff always get a pass on a transfer, but they are trying to make quick decisions on kids they may not know that well. Look at Toppin, Cox thought he might have to redshirt for the first year because he was so skinny, but the kid was a late bloomer and Cox had to act quickly or risk losing him to another school. This one worked out, but you can see how other scenarios it might not. maybe the risk/reward was too high on sheppard at the time and we should have seen this coming, but coaches need to make gut, instinctive decisions and Cox at the time felt like it was worth it. He may have also know that Sheppard might only be available for the 20-21 season, but still thought he was worth it - who knows. But at the end of the day, I have no problem with what Cox has done on the recruiting front to date.

[adam914]

I think its fair to say there is a middle ground here between the two arguments. On its own, losing Hammond certainly is not the end of the world, and if Jeff or Fatts were to miss time its not like anyone was going to argue that we'd be fine because we have Hammond to replace them. But I also think it is fair to acknowledge that this much roster turnover is not a good thing. I think acting like this is totally normal and every team loses this many guys, only has 8/9 scholarship players, and has 2 guards on the roster is an overreaction in the other direction.

My initial thought reading all of this was I wonder what our reaction would be if this type of roster turnover was happening at PC or UMass or UConn. Would we be as understanding and willing to just write it off as the way things go? I'm skeptical that would be the case.

[TruePoint]

I can only speak for myself, but if players at PC or UConn of the same caliber were leaving at the same rate, I’d probably be more curious than anything since I would have never even heard of them and I’d look up their stats and then shrug and forget it ever happened.

I’m not necessarily saying it is GOOD that the turnover has happened, but I’m also just honestly not too worried about it because of who the players are that have left. Nothing against them personally but it just hasn’t impacted the team and it’s pretty hard to see how it will even down the line.

Again, point taken that you’d prefer not to recruit and spend scholarships on guys that ultimately can’t hack it and leave, but (1) that isn’t the easiest thing to predict and that does happen everywhere, maybe not at the rate we’ve seen in the last 15 months, and (2) if you do want to call Hammond or Aris and these others recruiting mistakes, let’s just acknowledge that their leaving isn’t what makes it a mistake and actually mitigates against the mistake, which is why I think it makes it a little weird to react to their departures by bemoaning the “wasted” scholarship.

[rambone 78]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but maybe Cox should have filled the open spot by bringing in another guard transfer or 5th year along with Sheppard, knowing that he was at risk of not qualifying.....and also not really knowing what he was going to get with the freshman Hammond. Maybe he did try?

Sort of having an insurance policy due to the lack of guard depth.

[adam914]

I can only speak for myself, but if players at PC or UConn of the same caliber were leaving at the same rate, I’d probably be more curious than anything since I would have never even heard of them and I’d look up their stats and then shrug and forget it ever happened.

I’m not necessarily saying it is GOOD that the turnover has happened, but I’m also just honestly not too worried about it because of who the players are that have left. Nothing against them personally but it just hasn’t impacted the team and it’s pretty hard to see how it will even down the line.

Again, point taken that you’d prefer not to recruit and spend scholarships on guys that ultimately can’t hack it and leave, but (1) that isn’t the easiest thing to predict and that does happen everywhere, maybe not at the rate we’ve seen in the last 15 months, and (2) if you do want to call Hammond or Aris and these others recruiting mistakes, let’s just acknowledge that their leaving isn’t what makes it a mistake and actually mitigates against the mistake, which is why I think it makes it a little weird to react to their departures by bemoaning the “wasted” scholarship.

I don't really disagree or feel like this is an unreasonable take. I think to add for myself and where I am at though is that I have at least some concern that this could become a more frequent trend. Maybe it turns out that this is just a 1-2 year blip due to a new coaching staff and just natural roster turnover and it turns out to be no big deal in another year or two when they bring in new guys. I do think it puts more pressure on any new guys being brought in to be able to contribute sooner though. We'll be right back to relying on freshman and/or transfers again, which as we all know can sometimes be dicey.

So for now I am taking a wait and see approach and am at least slightly concerned about it. Again, not because of what it means for this years team necessarily, but just looking at the situation as a whole. We'll see where it goes from here and I am of course hoping for the best.

[Rhody83]

DC Rams, regarding your response to my last post.
Calm down a little. You are starting to attack. This is a message board. Topics about the program are discussed.
You ask what do I want to happen and throw an exaggerated comment about fire the coach.
If you read the end of my post, I included that - “Moving on. The recruiting process and player retention needs to improve the next few years.”

You are a Cox supporter first and a URI supporter second. I understand that and admire your unwavering loyalty to Cox on every situation. I am a URI fan first and support Cox as URI’s Head Coach.

My guess is the posters to this thread are about 50/50 on the two sides of this - concerned vs not concerned.

[Rhody83]

Agree with adam914’s last post.

[DC_Rams]

DC Rams, regarding your response to my last post.
Calm down a little. You are starting to attack. This is a message board. Topics about the program are discussed.
You ask what do I want to happen and throw an exaggerated comment about fire the coach.
If you read the end of my post, I included that - “Moving on. The recruiting process and player retention needs to improve the next few years.”

You are a Cox supporter first and a URI supporter second. I understand that and admire your unwavering loyalty to Cox on every situation. I am a URI fan first and support Cox as URI’s Head Coach.

My guess is the posters to this thread are about 50/50 on the two sides of this - concerned vs not concerned.

I am a URI supporter. Period. From Dooley, to Thorr, to DC to the end of the bench. Those that want to be here, are those that I support.

[Ramtastico]

We need to stop recruiting in Louisiana.