The 2019 Coaching Carousel

[Rhody83]

Buffalo
2012-13 14-20 (7-9)
2013-14 19-10 (13-5) regular season 1st place
2014-15 23-10 (12-6) regular season 1st place/tournament champ/NCAA birth

[ramster]

Pitino reaches out!

https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/what-we-k ... ler-found/

[reef]

Seems like Mick Cronin is a nice fallback option for UCLA

I don’t see much conflict if BH goes to St John’s there are plenty of players to recruit in that area

[SmartyBarrett]

[ace]

Buffalo
2012-13 14-20 (7-9)
2013-14 19-10 (13-5) regular season 1st place
2014-15 23-10 (12-6) regular season 1st place/tournament champ/NCAA birth

Buffalo
2008-09 21-12 (11-5), 1st Place
2009-10 18-12 (9-7), 3rd place
2010-11 20-14 (8-8), 5th place
2011-12 20-11 (12-4), 2nd place

I have no idea what kind of upside down place we’re in here that I’m playing this role in this type of conversation. If you want to stan for Bobby, go for it! I’m certainly not one to stand in the way of praise for a Hurley. Bobby recruited way above MAC levels, had success, and got out. Nate Oats built that program.

[Rhody83]

Buffalo
2012-13 14-20 (7-9)
2013-14 19-10 (13-5) regular season 1st place
2014-15 23-10 (12-6) regular season 1st place/tournament champ/NCAA birth

Buffalo
2008-09 21-12 (11-5), 1st Place
2009-10 18-12 (9-7), 3rd place
2010-11 20-14 (8-8), 5th place
2011-12 20-11 (12-4), 2nd place

I have no idea what kind of upside down place we’re in here that I’m playing this role in this type of conversation. If you want to stan for Bobby, go for it! I’m certainly not one to stand in the way of praise for a Hurley. Bobby recruited way above MAC levels, had success, and got out. Nate Oats built that program.

Ace is a Bobby hater
So when Nate Oats made it to the NCAA Tournament in 2015-16 none of that credit goes to Bobby Hurley?

[ace]

You guys would know better than me... is Bobby any good? I’ve been incredibly underwhelmed by his track record

My impression (and this could be totally unfair) is that Dan really identifies as a coach and Bobby does it because people will give him a good amount of money to do it and he knows how to do it.

I’ve been thinking about this. I love both Hurleys (WHAT?! shocking information, I know), but I think there’s some merit to these descriptions. There’s no way Bobby would have spent any amount of time teaching and coaching or stayed six years at URI. If it would have been up to him, his brother maybe would have left after that first year, too. Bobby saw some of that stuff as lies, whether by omission or commission, where it really may have just been incompetence in the earlier oversight of the program.

I don’t think it’s just about the money for Bobby, but he’s more cut-throat competitive or self-serving, depending on which way you want to spin it. For example, he didn’t like the way Buffalo publicly handled talk of a contract extension, so he was out. He was linked with almost every available job in the country then. Will that mindset serve him better in the long run in this career? Maybe. Regardless, they’re both good coaches and able to make very good livings doing something they love.

[ace]

[Seawrightspostgame]

Hurley to Sj would be exciting at the least.

[Rhody83]

From the article above: “Over four years, Bobby Hurley has made Arizona State basketball relevant. He’s taken the Sun Devils to the NCAA Tournament in consecutive seasons for the first time since the early 1980s.”

[bigappleram]

I really don't see how anyone who observed Dan and Bobby as players and now coaches doesn't see the differences that Ace mentions. It was quite clear, even after a 5 minute conversation with both of them at that first event at Coast Guard. Bobby was going to be on the first train out of town when the better opp presented itself, Dan was in it for the love.

[ace]

From the article above: “Over four years, Bobby Hurley has made Arizona State basketball relevant. He’s taken the Sun Devils to the NCAA Tournament in consecutive seasons for the first time since the early 1980s.”

Kind of what Dan did at URI? Yes, in 6 years, but there’s no comparison as to where they started and conferences. Plus. ASU made the tournament in 2003, 2009, and 2014. What even is this conversation?! They’re both great, JFC.

[Rhody83]

I really don't see how anyone who observed Dan and Bobby as players and now coaches doesn't see the differences that Ace mentions. It was quite clear, even after a 5 minute conversation with both of them at that first event at Coast Guard. Bobby was going to be on the first train out of town when the better opp presented itself, Dan was in it for the love.

I didn’t see where anyone disagreed with Ace on the differences. How do the differences guarantee that Dan is and will be a better coach? The comparison of Dan right after accepting his first big HC job to Bobby as an assistant has no relevance at all.

[ace]

Buffalo
2012-13 14-20 (7-9)
2013-14 19-10 (13-5) regular season 1st place
2014-15 23-10 (12-6) regular season 1st place/tournament champ/NCAA birth

Buffalo
2008-09 21-12 (11-5), 1st Place
2009-10 18-12 (9-7), 3rd place
2010-11 20-14 (8-8), 5th place
2011-12 20-11 (12-4), 2nd place

I have no idea what kind of upside down place we’re in here that I’m playing this role in this type of conversation. If you want to stan for Bobby, go for it! I’m certainly not one to stand in the way of praise for a Hurley. Bobby recruited way above MAC levels, had success, and got out. Nate Oats built that program.

Ace is a Bobby hater
So when Nate Oats made it to the NCAA Tournament in 2015-16 none of that credit goes to Bobby Hurley?

Sure, give him credit. Give all Hurleys all credit for all things, just like when Cox leads next season’s team to the NCAAs, a tiny little bit of that will be about Dan, too. What Dave should be most grateful for is never having to hear, “since 1999.” Giving credit isn’t the same thing as your initial description in this conversation.

But for fun, let’s look at that 15-16 Buffalo team. Aside from a couple players, including all-conference player Shannon Evans, Bobby also took both of the other assistants with him. Three of the top four scorers on that 15-16 team were first year players at Buffalo (2 JUCOs and a freshman) and recruited after Hurley left by Oats. Justin Moss was tremendous under Hurley and then promptly kicked off the team for Oats’s first year. Nate coached his ass off that year.

Now, it’s a beautiful night, so I’m off to drink by a fire pit and listen to baseball.

[bigappleram]

I really don't see how anyone who observed Dan and Bobby as players and now coaches doesn't see the differences that Ace mentions. It was quite clear, even after a 5 minute conversation with both of them at that first event at Coast Guard. Bobby was going to be on the first train out of town when the better opp presented itself, Dan was in it for the love.

I didn’t see where anyone disagreed with Ace on the differences. How do the differences guarantee that Dan is and will be a better coach? The comparison of Dan right after accepting his first big HC job to Bobby as an assistant has no relevance at all.

Short term view I would say Bob is the guy to hire, his name and celebrity status bring an immediate shot in the arm to any program he joins. Long term I have no doubt Dan will be the better HC, he is more of a student of the game, he seems more obsessed with succeeding, he seems to be the more cerebral of the two, and he seems to have better connectivity to players, the community and the administrations he works for. For all those reasons I think Dan will have the better resume when both of them decide to hang it up.

[theblueram]

I would think SJU would have to pay BH around $3 mill a year. Plus, they would have to buy out the contract for 3 mill. He just signed a contract extension in January for $2.1, with a $100k increase next year and the year after. Then it would increase by $200k. He also has a longevity bonus of $1 mill payable in 22 or 23. He was also due to get a $700k bonus for executing the new contract.

[Cameron_Dollar]

Bigappleram,
I totally agree.
Dan is in it for the love.
The love of money.
That doesn't make him a bad person. It just makes him like everyone else.
This is David Cox' team now. Not my first choice but he learned on the job this year with his young players. He is going to get the job done here. Supporters should feel good about this team going forward; especially if he can tweak this staff.

[Rhody83]

Interesting

[bigappleram]

Odd situation at SJU. The statement, then him stepping down a day later. Cluess and Bobby only names being mentioned right now.

[bigappleram]

Bigappleram,
I totally agree.
Dan is in it for the love.
The love of money.
That doesn't make him a bad person. It just makes him like everyone else.
This is David Cox' team now. Not my first choice but he learned on the job this year with his young players. He is going to get the job done here. Supporters should feel good about this team going forward; especially if he can tweak this staff.

If it was only about the money he would have left for Rutgers when he had the opportunity.

[Shaolin Swat]

Bigappleram,
I totally agree.
Dan is in it for the love.
The love of money.
That doesn't make him a bad person. It just makes him like everyone else.
This is David Cox' team now. Not my first choice but he learned on the job this year with his young players. He is going to get the job done here. Supporters should feel good about this team going forward; especially if he can tweak this staff.

If it was only about the money he would have left for Rutgers when he had the opportunity.

And, if it was all about the money, he would have rejected UConn for Pittsburgh last year. Just because Dan left here for another job doesn't mean that it was/is all about the money. I don't understand how some people just don't get that.

[ramster]

Rumored that St John’s is preparing to release Chris Mullins and planning to go after Bobby Hurley

Rumor has turned out to be credible even though the AD tried to deny all.

Even the Bobby Hurley portion is sounding likely especially since the AD was at Duke for 30 years.

Brings the whole family back together geographically.

[ramster]

Dang...that UCLA clusterduck is lining up just perfect for you-know-who...

I think this is the year that you-know-who returns to a US HC position

[TruePoint]

You guys would know better than me... is Bobby any good? I’ve been incredibly underwhelmed by his track record

My impression (and this could be totally unfair) is that Dan really identifies as a coach and Bobby does it because people will give him a good amount of money to do it and he knows how to do it.

I’ve been thinking about this. I love both Hurleys (WHAT?! shocking information, I know), but I think there’s some merit to these descriptions. There’s no way Bobby would have spent any amount of time teaching and coaching or stayed six years at URI. If it would have been up to him, his brother maybe would have left after that first year, too. Bobby saw some of that stuff as lies, whether by omission or commission, where it really may have just been incompetence in the earlier oversight of the program.

I don’t think it’s just about the money for Bobby, but he’s more cut-throat competitive or self-serving, depending on which way you want to spin it. For example, he didn’t like the way Buffalo publicly handled talk of a contract extension, so he was out. He was linked with almost every available job in the country then. Will that mindset serve him better in the long run in this career? Maybe. Regardless, they’re both good coaches and able to make very good livings doing something they love.

I really wasn’t trying to insult Bobby. Like I said, this is a completely arm’s length observation and I could be totally off, but my perception is that the two guys just have different approaches and mentalities. Bobby was a lottery pick, a 2X champion, an all-American and one of the most famous college players of all time. Dan was a good player and had a solid career, but he was none of those things. They both know basketball from growing up how they did and playing at a high level; no doubt Bobby knows enough basketball to draw up plays and identify matchups and scheme and gameplan and all that. But I just get the sense that how they got to where they are impacts how they are as coaches. Things come easy to Bobby. Dan has to work. Thats why I feel like Dan will grind and build something brick by brick, and Bobby will use his cache to get the things he wants and needs quickly. It’s my perspective on how the world works talking here, but I believe Dan’s approach is more likely to succeed in the long run even if Bobby’s allows him to get more done early. That isn’t to say that Bobby isn’t a good coach or that he won’t do well at St John’s if he goes there. Just if I had a program and was hiring a coach, given the choice I’d take Dan.

[ramster]

Must be extra special for him to know he just made the cut for their list of top ten candidates.

Actually I think this is a good hire for both UCLA and for Cronin. Cronin is only 47 years old, emphasizes defense, is relentless and he is one of only 6 Head Coaches to have his team in NCAA Tournament 9 consecutive years. Good catch by UCLA.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-mi ... ch+Results

[reef]

Agree on Cronin think that’s a good hire

I do think BH takes the St John’s

I think DH and BH bring different stuff to the table but both are very good

If I want somebody to completely rebuild the program give me DH

[Cameron_Dollar]

If it wasn't about the money, he would have remained at URI. Hurley would have never won at Rutgers and the ACC makes winning at Pittsburgh very difficult. His contract at UCONN while less than what Pittsburgh offered affords him the opportunity in the long run to make more if and when he begins to win ; and no doubt he will.. Even with that conference vastly improving, he has everything in place to make UCONN relevant again.

[ramster]

Bobby will have an easier time recruiting because of the name ID. He will get players. He’s done that at ASU, especially. I’m not saying that Bobby is a bad coach at all, it just feels to me like it’s more a job for him and more a life for Dan. On resume alone, hard to argue that Bobby hasn’t done more so far. But if I wanted a coach to build a sustainable and sound program from scratch, I’d take Dan. Put another way: if I could go back to 2012 and I could have hired Bobby or Dan, even knowing everything I know now, I’d take Dan.

Posters aren’t giving Bobby enough credit for creating a program at Buffalo.
If I was hiring for a P5 or top program I would hire Bobby. If I was hiring for a mid major, I would hire Dan.

If I were hiring for a P5 or a Mid Major I would hire Dan or Bobby Hurley. Both are great. Both continue to learn and improve their individual capabilities. Both continue on an upward trajectory. Can’t go wrong with either guy.

[ramster]

UConn is obviously a big brand and bigger than St Johns. But all the talk about brands and who is what and where is a little over blown. There are tons of "brands" that are damn near dead. The brand is really just the coach in most cases.

Less than 10 programs have been great for different eras with different coaches. And even those programs had down years with bad coaching. High level success is much more delicate and dependent on coaches/those coaches getting the best players by hook or crook than people will have you believe.

How is the Florida brand without Billy Donovan.

I agree with this, UConn's "brand" has taken a real beating since Ollie won the NC with Calhoun's players. He basically ran that program into the ground and it no longer carries the same prestige as the UCONN brand once had. Not sure how much UCONN basketball everyone has watched the past several years, but its been a disaster. Calhoun was recruiting kids from all over the country, kids wanted to be at UCONN playing on ESPN in the Big East, that is no longer the case, and on top of that, they now play in a conference that is meh and only marginally better than the A10 (if even). I'm not saying that Dan will not bring them back to respectability, that what Dan does, but in today's recruiting world you cant rely on your brand unless you are Kansas, Duke, UNC etc.. Look at UCLA, a true blue blood program, there head coaching job has been open for over 100 days and coaches are turning down that job. Bobby Hurley at St. John's is not a good thing for UCONN.

The AAC is 6th Ranked. Big East has fallen from a traditional #1 or #2 rank down to #5 this year, just ahead of the AAC.
The A10 is #12 having fallen from a typical #7 or #8. Even the Ivy League and the Southern Conference are ranked ahead of the A10.

AAC had 4 teams in the NCAA Tournament while the A10 had only 2. Houston, Cincinnati, UCF and Temple made the NCAA.

AAC had Houston, Cincinnati and UCF in the Top 25 this season, the A10 had no teams in the Top 25.

Memphis had a great recruiting year nabbing the #1 ranked player in 7’ James Wiseman, so they will be tough next season
New HC at Tulane, Ron Hunter, is a good pick up for the AAC. UConn had an excellent recruiting year getting 3 Top 100 players. Wichita State will be back stronger next season.

Don’t see AAC and the A10 close at all, with the gap actually widening.

Don’t see why Bobby Hurley coming to St Johns would hurt UConn.

[rhodysurf]

From the super always reliable reddit

[rambone 78]

The A10 needs to get back to being the 8th best conference.

Next season I see them at least heading back toward that, maybe 10th or so. And 3 NCAA bids.

The top half of the league will be better, but the bottom half will still suck, so 8th is a stretch.

[SmartyBarrett]

[bigappleram]

I see a 3-tier A10 next year

Tier 1 (w/NCAA hopes to some degree)
VCU
Dayton
Davidson
URI

Tier 2 (w/NIT or CBI hopes to some degree)
Bonnies
Duquesne
Richmond
St. Louis
Mason

Tier 3 (w/hopes the 2019-20 season ends as quickly as possible)
Umass
Lasalle
GW
Fordham

[SmartyBarrett]

I think La Salle could potentially sneak into tier 2. I wouldn't go as far as to say they have NIT/CBI hopes, but I'm also not sure I'd group them with those other three dumpster fires either. Also, you forgot St. Joe's, who undoubtedly belongs in tier 3. Some folks have Bona and/or Duquesne in tier 1 but I'm not buying it.

[Seawrightspostgame]

Odd to say one Hurley is a hardworker and the other is more reliant on talent.

My perception and I think the way they talk about themselves is that they all are hardworkers and Bobby got more out of his work. Or actually worked harder.

I think the difference is just their personas. Dan leans heavily on a family message and being neighborly. I think Bobby doesn't sugarcoat his image or what he thinks.

Look at them both on the sideline and you can hardly tell who is who by their antics.

[Shaolin Swat]

Odd to say one Hurley is a hardworker and the other is more reliant on talent.

My perception and I think the way they talk about themselves is that they all are hardworkers and Bobby got more out of his work. Or actually worked harder.

I think the difference is just their personas. Dan leans heavily on a family message and being neighborly. I think Bobby doesn't sugarcoat his image or what he thinks.

Look at them both on the sideline and you can hardly tell who is who by their antics.

Does Bobby get more out of his work than Dan though? For the highly ranked recruiting classes that he's been able to pull in, he still only has one more tournament appearance than Dan and has yet to win a tournament game (which, as we know, Dan has done twice).

I look at it this way - if Dan was still here this past season and the St. John's job unfolded the way that it did, who would St. John's target? I have to think it would be Dan.

[bigappleram]

I think La Salle could potentially sneak into tier 2. I wouldn't go as far as to say they have NIT/CBI hopes, but I'm also not sure I'd group them with those other three dumpster fires either. Also, you forgot St. Joe's, who undoubtedly belongs in tier 3. Some folks have Bona and/or Duquesne in tier 1 but I'm not buying it.

Agree Smarty, some fluidity in that Tier 2 whereas someone like Lasalle may be better than I think when all said and done. And I think Bonnies and Duquesne are at the top of that Tier 2 so also could be fluidity with them and Tier 1 though I still see them a notch below anyone in Tier 1.

I knew i forgot someone, it was St Joe's, and as you say they undoubtedly will be a Tier 3 dumpster fire.

[Shinze88]

UConn is obviously a big brand and bigger than St Johns. But all the talk about brands and who is what and where is a little over blown. There are tons of "brands" that are damn near dead. The brand is really just the coach in most cases.

Less than 10 programs have been great for different eras with different coaches. And even those programs had down years with bad coaching. High level success is much more delicate and dependent on coaches/those coaches getting the best players by hook or crook than people will have you believe.

How is the Florida brand without Billy Donovan.

I agree with this, UConn's "brand" has taken a real beating since Ollie won the NC with Calhoun's players. He basically ran that program into the ground and it no longer carries the same prestige as the UCONN brand once had. Not sure how much UCONN basketball everyone has watched the past several years, but its been a disaster. Calhoun was recruiting kids from all over the country, kids wanted to be at UCONN playing on ESPN in the Big East, that is no longer the case, and on top of that, they now play in a conference that is meh and only marginally better than the A10 (if even). I'm not saying that Dan will not bring them back to respectability, that what Dan does, but in today's recruiting world you cant rely on your brand unless you are Kansas, Duke, UNC etc.. Look at UCLA, a true blue blood program, there head coaching job has been open for over 100 days and coaches are turning down that job. Bobby Hurley at St. John's is not a good thing for UCONN.

The AAC is 6th Ranked. Big East has fallen from a traditional #1 or #2 rank down to #5 this year, just ahead of the AAC.
The A10 is #12 having fallen from a typical #7 or #8. Even the Ivy League and the Southern Conference are ranked ahead of the A10.

AAC had 4 teams in the NCAA Tournament while the A10 had only 2. Houston, Cincinnati, UCF and Temple made the NCAA.

AAC had Houston, Cincinnati and UCF in the Top 25 this season, the A10 had no teams in the Top 25.

Memphis had a great recruiting year nabbing the #1 ranked player in 7’ James Wiseman, so they will be tough next season
New HC at Tulane, Ron Hunter, is a good pick up for the AAC. UConn had an excellent recruiting year getting 3 Top 100 players. Wichita State will be back stronger next season.

Don’t see AAC and the A10 close at all, with the gap actually widening.

Don’t see why Bobby Hurley coming to St Johns would hurt UConn.



DF446500-2F6F-4EEE-80BB-138D4CC5E045.png

I'm not suggesting the A10 is a better conference than the AAC, I think both conferences have been pretty even since the inception of the AAC, I'm not basing this on just last season's performance which obviously was awful for the A10. I think both conferences have won a similar number of NCAA games going back to when the AAC formed. Going forward maybe the AAC takes ff and surpasses the Big East, maybe not, but these are mostly football schools who will leave that conference in a blink of an eye if offered to a bigger conference. Putting another coach like Bobby with Eastern recruiting roots into the recruiting mix for NY/NJ kids can have an impact on Dan at UCONN. Auburn was an irrelevant program before Pearl, same for TCU with Dixon, the right coach can get recruits and win at SJU.

[Section104]

I see a 3-tier A10 next year

Tier 1 (w/NCAA hopes to some degree)
VCU
Dayton
Davidson
URI

Tier 2 (w/NIT or CBI hopes to some degree)
Bonnies
Duquesne
Richmond
St. Louis
Mason

Tier 3 (w/hopes the 2019-20 season ends as quickly as possible)
Umass
Lasalle
GW
Fordham

I think VCU might be a step ahead of the rest - they are as close to an NCAA "lock" as you can get in pre-season in a mid-major conference (similar to URI 2 years ago).

Dayton, Davidson, and URI are slightly behind and are 50/50 for the NCAA tournament. I'd say 2 of the 3 teams at a minimum will make it. I also think that tier 2 has an outside shot at the NCAA tournament with St. Bonaventure (following E Williams transfer from Duquesne) leading the way.

[ace]

I can’t believe Chris Mullin really told his players he was out via a conference call. St. John’s and St. Joe’s are really battling it out for the worst-handled coach dismissal of the off-season.

[Billyboy78]

I can’t believe Chris Mullin really told his players he was out via a conference call.

St. John’s and St. Joe’s are really battling it out for the worst-handled coach dismissal of the off-season.

And I known Magic Johnson isn't a coach , but he didn't handle his very well either.

[PeterRamTime]

Odd to say one Hurley is a hardworker and the other is more reliant on talent.

My perception and I think the way they talk about themselves is that they all are hardworkers and Bobby got more out of his work. Or actually worked harder.

I think the difference is just their personas. Dan leans heavily on a family message and being neighborly. I think Bobby doesn't sugarcoat his image or what he thinks.

Look at them both on the sideline and you can hardly tell who is who by their antics.

Does Bobby get more out of his work than Dan though? For the highly ranked recruiting classes that he's been able to pull in, he still only has one more tournament appearance than Dan and has yet to win a tournament game (which, as we know, Dan has done twice).

I look at it this way - if Dan was still here this past season and the St. John's job unfolded the way that it did, who would St. John's target? I have to think it would be Dan.

Bobby beat St John's in the play in game.

[Shaolin Swat]

Odd to say one Hurley is a hardworker and the other is more reliant on talent.

My perception and I think the way they talk about themselves is that they all are hardworkers and Bobby got more out of his work. Or actually worked harder.

I think the difference is just their personas. Dan leans heavily on a family message and being neighborly. I think Bobby doesn't sugarcoat his image or what he thinks.

Look at them both on the sideline and you can hardly tell who is who by their antics.

Does Bobby get more out of his work than Dan though? For the highly ranked recruiting classes that he's been able to pull in, he still only has one more tournament appearance than Dan and has yet to win a tournament game (which, as we know, Dan has done twice).

I look at it this way - if Dan was still here this past season and the St. John's job unfolded the way that it did, who would St. John's target? I have to think it would be Dan.

Bobby beat St John's in the play in game.

That game slipped my mind, but he's still won fewer tournament games than Dan in more appearances and hasn't advanced past the round of 64 yet.

[Iggy1979]

Boy, a lot of decent assistant coaches looking for jobs. Someone is going to snap up Greg St. Jean for sure.

[ace]

There sure are. It’s easy to forget all the uncertainty that goes on with assistants and other staff members when a coach leaves or is fired.





I wonder if Greg Youncofski is one that goes with him?

[Billyboy78]

I wonder who has applied for our open assistant position? I assume now that the season is over, interviews will begin soon.

[giovanni]

[Rhody83]

[Ramulous]

So Bobby Hurley is a done deal to St Johns.....and Bobby Hurley is never leaving the West Coast.....is that right?

[Rhody83]