The 2019 Coaching Carousel

[rambone 78]

It's getting tougher and tougher to compete on the recruiting trail nowadays...what with so many programs spending the big bucks for shiny new arenas, practice facilities, other perks, etc..

St. Joes can't compete on that level anymore. Have to catch lightning in a bottle to be good for a couple of years. And they did just that 15 years ago.

But that was 15 years ago!

Plus guys who have been at a place for a long time sometimes get a little complacent and don't want to do all of the little things necessary to separate themselves from the competition.

Big time basketball has left a lot of the little guys behind.....and URI has to keep spending and investing more and more money every year in their program to keep their heads above water, or they will join them.

[Shaolin Swat]

My issue with this, like most people here, is the manner in which Martelli was let go - not the fact that he was let go. I'm in the camp that it was time for a change at St. Joe's, but they could have (and should have) done a much better job handling this coaching change.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

My issue with this, like most people here, is the manner in which Martelli was let go - not the fact that he was let go. I'm in the camp that it was time for a change at St. Joe's, but they could have (and should have) done a much better job handling this coaching change.

We don't really know what really happened. My suspicion is that they asked him to retire with a cushy consulting-type job, much like the one Storrs Leg-humper U Arrogant Haystack Calhoun. When he refused, he left them no choice but to can him. The real question is how much it's going to cost them; philly.com says his contract has several years left on it.https://www.philly.com/college-sports/p ... 90319.html

Anyway, the Joes are going to have big problems. What's going to happen to them when the referees no longer give Young Frankenstein every call?

[rambone 78]

No, word is a booster paid at least a big chunk of the tab, otherwise Phil would still be the coach.

Sort of like what happened with Baron here.

[bigappleram]

This is correct ^.
AD gave him 24 hours to resign and he refused so down came the hatchet.

[bigappleram]

The guy took St Joseph's to the NCAA Tournament 7 times and to the NIT 6 times. What the heck - and you fire the guy because of a few off seasons?

I think there is some context to those numbers:

In his first 10 years on the job, Martelli made 4 NCAA Tournaments and 3 NIT's. He won 6 NCAA Tournament games, 10 NIT games, which includes 1 Elite 8, 2 Sweet 16s, and 2 NIT Runner-Ups.

In his next 14 years on the job, Martelli made 3 NCAA Tournaments and 3 NIT's. He won 1 NCAA Tournament game and 1 NIT game.

His team hadn't made a postseason tournament in 3 years and amassed a combined 41-55 record (20-34 in conference).

Taking out the fact that Martelli was an important part of the history of St. Joseph's basketball, I think most teams who made 3 NCAA Tournaments in 14 years, had only 1 tournament win, and hadn't been competitive for the last three years would come to the same conclusion.

Injuries or not, even his fully healthy teams have not gotten the job done.

While I don’t disagree with what you are saying regarding trajectory, this is a slippery slope for a Friar fan. You realize 1 Ncaa win in 7 years (Cooley) pro rated is 2 wins in 14 years, which is what you are dinging Martelli on. 1 guy gets justifiably canned in your opinion yet the other (Cooley) has all the job security in the world. When does your CFL feel some heat? Even including Nelson and West your coach has had a cupboard full of talent Martelli would dream of. What would Martelli have done with a lottery pick McDonalds AA point guard and a stretch 4 that averaged 20...my guess is he would get that team to the second weekend. Martelli has been hit with bad luck and injuries the last 3 seasons but gets no pass from you, meanwhile Cooley’s post season failures have been dismissed due to ppl leaving the program and what your fans consider bad luck (Ledo, Austin). Honest question, if you get to year 10 and still haven’t seen the 2nd weekend should he still be CFL in your eyes?

[rambone 78]

PC seems to be OK with just making the tournament I guess.

Their fans are happy with Cooley's recruiting ability...with his coaching, not so much.

[rjsuperfly66]

The guy took St Joseph's to the NCAA Tournament 7 times and to the NIT 6 times. What the heck - and you fire the guy because of a few off seasons?

I think there is some context to those numbers:

In his first 10 years on the job, Martelli made 4 NCAA Tournaments and 3 NIT's. He won 6 NCAA Tournament games, 10 NIT games, which includes 1 Elite 8, 2 Sweet 16s, and 2 NIT Runner-Ups.

In his next 14 years on the job, Martelli made 3 NCAA Tournaments and 3 NIT's. He won 1 NCAA Tournament game and 1 NIT game.

His team hadn't made a postseason tournament in 3 years and amassed a combined 41-55 record (20-34 in conference).

Taking out the fact that Martelli was an important part of the history of St. Joseph's basketball, I think most teams who made 3 NCAA Tournaments in 14 years, had only 1 tournament win, and hadn't been competitive for the last three years would come to the same conclusion.

Injuries or not, even his fully healthy teams have not gotten the job done.

While I don’t disagree with what you are saying regarding trajectory, this is a slippery slope for a Friar fan. You realize 1 Ncaa win in 7 years (Cooley) pro rated is 2 wins in 14 years, which is what you are dinging Martelli on. 1 guy gets justifiably canned in your opinion yet the other (Cooley) has all the job security in the world. When does your CFL feel some heat? Even including Nelson and West your coach has had a cupboard full of talent Martelli would dream of. What would Martelli have done with a lottery pick McDonalds AA point guard and a stretch 4 that averaged 20...my guess is he would get that team to the second weekend. Martelli has been hit with bad luck and injuries the last 3 seasons but gets no pass from you, meanwhile Cooley’s post season failures have been dismissed due to ppl leaving the program and what your fans consider bad luck (Ledo, Austin). Honest question, if you get to year 10 and still haven’t seen the 2nd weekend should he still be CFL in your eyes?

Martelli had a team coming off of an Elite 8 and nearly historical season, so comparing him to any program that has had to "rebuild" aren't necessarily fair comps. There is a difference between a coach who takes a team from a perennial cellar dwellar to consistent bubble team winning 1 NCAA game in 8 seasons, and a coach that has two second weekend trips in the last handful of years producing 1 NCAAT win in 14 years. That said, I'm not telling you I'm thrilled, I used to brawl with people on this very topic which is largely why I don't post on the Scout board anymore. I think by and large many of those fans are still caught up in the past of how bad PC was post-Gillen, so they sit and say "Do you want to go back to a place where it took 10 years to make the tournament and 19 years to win a game?" On one hand, acknowledge how great Cooley has done, but so afraid of the past they want to be better but are largely ok with how it is. What Cooley has done is great, but I think he has 3 more years to get this team to the second weekend (senior season Duke/Reeves), otherwise I believe there really needs to at least be a conversation if Cooley has maxed out what he is able to achieve. Cooley raised the bar at Providence, now he has to keep raising it.

[bigappleram]

Do you think the fact that Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, WVU, BC, UConn, Cincy left your league had anything to do with the ascension from cellar dweller? I mean the BE you are in now is a shell of its former self. Calling it a rebuild is ridiculous, you had a bad coach for 3 years but that was not a rebuild job by any definition of the word. The league got weaker, Cooley proved to be an excellent recruiter, and you guys rose up the totem pole...but after 8 years your coach has 1 NCAA win and a sub .500 record in a diluted league. He should be feeling more heat than he is and if he wasn't from Providence he would be.

[rambone 78]

Expectations.....not many meet them.

If PC thinks they are going to consistently become a 2nd weekend or beyond program...they are fooling themselves.

That's reserved for a select few.

Hell, WE would like to do the same...but really?

[bigappleram]

I actually think its possible for them to do that, look at Nova. You can do that in the BE with the brand cache, resources and TV money. HOWEVER, thus far, Cooley has shown you nothing that would make you think he is capable of doing that.

[rambone 78]

A lot of coaches max out at a certain level....or have one shining moment and then flame out, never to return to that level...

Shaka?

Cooley may have already reached his too......

[steviep123]

I sort of agree with RJ or are somewhere in between RJ and others on PC/Cooley. First, Cooley and Martelli is not a fair comparison. Like RJ said, Martelli in the last 14 years went to 3 NCAAs, 3 NITs, winning only one game in each. He's done nothing in the last 3 years. While Cooley only one one game, he has seen the post season the past 6 (?) years and has pulled Providence out of the basement. Sure, some of that is a result of the reorg and not being the Big East from the mid to late 2000s, but they still have Villanova who won 2 national titles in 3 years, plus strong Creighton as well as the Butler and Xavier programs stolen from the A10. It's not as strong, but not chicken feed either. Without Cooley, PC or a reasonable facsimile there of, they'd be DePaul. And it's not like they've been getting killed, they took UNC to the wire and most if not all of their post season games (not counting last night) have been close. A play or two another way could have seen them in the 2nd weekend.

That said, if he doesn't win another post season game in the next couple of years, the natives should be restless. Perhaps RJ is right in that Cooley was the man to get them this far, but they need someone else to take them over the hump.

[RhowdyRam02]

Why are the 3 NIT's over the past 14 years used as a positive for Martelli? The NIT is a fine tournament to be in for a program at certain points of their development, but it's also an irrelevant tournament, so shouldn't really be used as a positive mark when assessing a coach. You're defined by the NCAA tournament as a coach. He's been to 3 NCAA's in 14 years, that's not great. His program has been declining for a while, he's had a losing record in the conference the last three years combined. He was given an option to resign, he refused, so be it.

[rjsuperfly66]

Do you think the fact that Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville, WVU, BC, UConn, Cincy left your league had anything to do with the ascension from cellar dweller? I mean the BE you are in now is a shell of its former self. Calling it a rebuild is ridiculous, you had a bad coach for 3 years but that was not a rebuild job by any definition of the word. The league got weaker, Cooley proved to be an excellent recruiter, and you guys rose up the totem pole...but after 8 years your coach has 1 NCAA win and a sub .500 record in a diluted league. He should be feeling more heat than he is and if he wasn't from Providence he would be.

When Cooley started at PC, PC was 7 years removed from their last NCAA appearance and 15 years removed from their last tournament win. Alumni Hall was a dump, and the previous coach had created a dumpster-fire. Remember the year prior, two players are expelled from school for punching and nearly killing a student, and their best player is thrown off the team for inappropriate behavior on a recruiting visit. They lost their top recruiting assistant, Pat Skerry, which led to a decommitment from a Top 100 player (Naadir Tharpe - went to Kansas), and the chance at pretty much every other top recruit they were in contact with.They had a top 100 recruit, Joe Young, announce his intent to break his LOI to stay close to home to be near a sick relative, which the school denied and became a PR nightmare. During the season, they had an assistant coach (hired as a result of the inappropriate behavior on the recruiting visit) running around trying to tell players to fake injuries to get the coach fired thinking he is going to take over, they have their second consecutive 4-14 Big East season, and were returning a roster that had arguably had four Big East caliber players (maybe less) on it and a lowly-regarded recruiting class coming in. The only reason that the team wasn't considered worse was because fans got to watch Marshon Brooks transform into a 1st round draft pick, which kept games close and interesting against disinterested opponents.

Now, did PC benefit from a "weaker" league? I guess. It's all relative though. The Big East averaged 9 bids per season in the 5 years prior to realignment. So PC doesn't need to be top 5, they just needed to get into the top half of the conference. In their last season in the Big East, Ed Cooley's Friars finished with the 9th best conference record (tiebreakers), earning the 8 seed in the Big East Tournament due to UCONN being ineligible. Had that team not started the year slow, they could have competed for tournament birth, but frankly that team wasn't that good and just got hot down the stretch. It was an improvement for a program that had an average Big East conference standing of 12th in the 5 years before Cooley came to PC, including two years where they finished 15th and 14th respectively.

If PC thinks they are going to consistently become a 2nd weekend or beyond program...they are fooling themselves.

Who said that is the expectations? People just want to make the second weekend, there is no expectation of making it every year (or every other year). If you are consistently competing in the tournament and consistently recruiting at a Top 25 class level, there is not reason to think you can bust through once every four years or so to the Sweet 16. It's something that in the last 4 NCAA Tournaments, 38 schools have done.

I actually think its possible for them to do that, look at Nova. You can do that in the BE with the brand cache, resources and TV money. HOWEVER, thus far, Cooley has shown you nothing that would make you think he is capable of doing that.

Yes and no. On the court, Cooley had a terrible year. But after several years of missing on top targets, Cooley has nailed most of his major recruiting targets in the last three years. He pulled Nate Watson out of Maryland when most "experts" thought he was destined to be a Terrapin, he finished final 2 with MAL was able to pull him back once he decommitted from UCONN. He kept Duke home, and was able to bring in Reeves. They landed Greg Gantt which was also a nice get from down south. The miss was Akok Akok. There should be talent that when developed, can perform at a high-level. The question is, can Cooley get them there? He's recruited much better in the last three years then the three years prior. But now can he get those guys to their ceilings? That'll be the $100,000 question.

[SmartyBarrett]

[Ramulous]

I have to believe that St Joe's admin had to have met with Martelli and told him they wanted to go in a different direction....and he refused to accept that reality so they fired him rather than let him retire with dignity....

What do you do when the option is presented to the coach and he says no......they have been sub .500 for three years in a row....

[ace]

Tim Miles has not been fired and has a game to coach tonight, and yet...

[rambone 78]

As for some who say Martelli wasn't a friend of the A10....I think he was of the A10 in general, but I never got the sense that he supported us.

[theblueram]

As for some who say Martelli wasn't a friend of the A10....I think he was of the A10 in general, but I never got the sense that he supported us.

He's been eternally disturbed by Rhody inner tubing the bird.

[ramster]

I have to believe that St Joe's admin had to have met with Martelli and told him they wanted to go in a different direction....and he refused to accept that reality so they fired him rather than let him retire with dignity....

What do you do when the option is presented to the coach and he says no......they have been sub .500 for three years in a row....

Reasonable belief, but the AD sounded very full of herself with the note that went out. Even if it happened the way you suggest, she came across as not a "dignity" filled person. It may have happened the way you said, but I tend to think it didn't

[ramster]

Tim Miles has not been fired and has a game to coach tonight, and yet...

Must be something going on with the training of AD's these days. In the same Training Class as the St Joseph's AD?

[TruePoint]

I have to believe that St Joe's admin had to have met with Martelli and told him they wanted to go in a different direction....and he refused to accept that reality so they fired him rather than let him retire with dignity....

What do you do when the option is presented to the coach and he says no......they have been sub .500 for three years in a row....

They had to do what they had to do. Martelli even acknowledges as much in is statement. I don’t fault him for refusing to make it easy for them if he didn’t agree with them, and I don’t fault them for going ahead with what they felt was right. That’s all fine. The issue to me is what the AD and the school had to say about it. It’s the worst bedside manner I can recall for a person in that position, to the point that it makes me question her ability to make this hire or lead the athletic department in general. Totally tone deaf and completely unnecessary. All you have to do there is bite your tongue and take the high road; it’s so obviously the right approach that not taking it so you can make a self-aggrandizing statement that makes you look like an idiot shows a level of incompetence that does not bode well.

[rambone 78]

Yeah...they gave him 24 hours to quit, or be fired. And then afterwards, tossed him under the bus.

Now that's a great way to handle things. Not.

[theblueram]

I have to believe that St Joe's admin had to have met with Martelli and told him they wanted to go in a different direction....and he refused to accept that reality so they fired him rather than let him retire with dignity....

What do you do when the option is presented to the coach and he says no......they have been sub .500 for three years in a row....

They had to do what they had to do. Martelli even acknowledges as much in is statement. I don’t fault him for refusing to make it easy for them if he didn’t agree with them, and I don’t fault them for going ahead with what they felt was right. That’s all fine. The issue to me is what the AD and the school had to say about it. It’s the worst bedside manner I can recall for a person in that position, to the point that it makes me question her ability to make this hire or lead the athletic department in general. Totally tone deaf and completely unnecessary. All you have to do there is bite your tongue and take the high road; it’s so obviously the right approach that not taking it so you can make a self-aggrandizing statement that makes you look like an idiot shows a level of incompetence that does not bode well.

Perhaps? But maybe he was the dick I've always thought he was and said some crap that led the AD to say what she said?

[rambone 78]

If she was pissed at something he might have said...she still needs to be professional at her job.

Would Thorr ever say things like that in public? I think not.

[ramster]

If she was pissed at something he might have said...she still needs to be professional at her job.

Would Thorr ever say things like that in public? I think not.

Not a chance. No possible way would he say things that she said.

[TruePoint]

I have to believe that St Joe's admin had to have met with Martelli and told him they wanted to go in a different direction....and he refused to accept that reality so they fired him rather than let him retire with dignity....

What do you do when the option is presented to the coach and he says no......they have been sub .500 for three years in a row....

They had to do what they had to do. Martelli even acknowledges as much in is statement. I don’t fault him for refusing to make it easy for them if he didn’t agree with them, and I don’t fault them for going ahead with what they felt was right. That’s all fine. The issue to me is what the AD and the school had to say about it. It’s the worst bedside manner I can recall for a person in that position, to the point that it makes me question her ability to make this hire or lead the athletic department in general. Totally tone deaf and completely unnecessary. All you have to do there is bite your tongue and take the high road; it’s so obviously the right approach that not taking it so you can make a self-aggrandizing statement that makes you look like an idiot shows a level of incompetence that does not bode well.

Perhaps? But maybe he was the dick I've always thought he was and said some crap that led the AD to say what she said?

I’m sure he was prickly about it. He seems like that kind of guy, and I know I would be prickly about it. But the AD has a responsibility to not air out family business in public in a way that makes the school look bad. If you’re in that position, sometimes you have to put your personal feelings aside.

[theblueram]

If she was pissed at something he might have said...she still needs to be professional at her job.

Would Thorr ever say things like that in public? I think not.

Why? Maybe he called her a "C". You don't know. I could speculate on numerous reasons why I would bash someone I fired if needed.

[ramster]

Always have to be the consummate professional - she was not

[ramster]

If she was pissed at something he might have said...she still needs to be professional at her job.

Would Thorr ever say things like that in public? I think not.

Why? Maybe he called her a "C". You don't know. I could speculate on numerous reasons why I would bash someone I fired if needed.

Bash all she wants at him but not in writing

[theblueram]

Obviously she wanted to get something out. And since she hasn't been fired over it, the admin agreed.

[ramster]

For sure the Admin agreed, I would expect the Admin approved the publication. Says something for the Administration as well. Not the best way to act when looking for a new Head Coach coming in who might think twice.

[theblueram]

Makes you wonder how much power frankenstein actually thought he had.

[ramster]

Here are some articles on Jill..............

Sounds like she came in all revved up and on a mission from Day 1. She replaced the AD who had been there 35 years - a year longer than Martelli
The President of St Josephs arrived in 2015.
Could be this whole thing was planned even back when Bodensteiner was hired - writing was on the wall??

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... -female-a/
http://www.sjuhawks.com/ViewArticle.dbm ... =211707034

https://www.sju.edu/about-sju/universit ... -president

[TruePoint]

Maybe the admin agreed as you guys suggest. But maybe not. Sometimes management gives an employee - especially a person in an executive position - the latitude to do their job as they see fit even if they disagree with an individual action, and judge them on results.

[TruePoint]

https://deadspin.com/the-city-got-too-b ... 1833438626

[ramster]

https://deadspin.com/the-city-got-too-b ... 1833438626

Quite the last paragraph.............says it all. love the adjective "bloodless" press release. and then the last line - so very true

Winning is the bottom line, but it’s hard not to think that, in a bygone era, Dunphy and Martelli might have been better able to choreograph their endings. Dunphy was asked to leave last year; he reportedly only agreed to stay another season on the condition that Aaron McKie, a Temple legend and one of his assistants, got to succeed him. Martelli’s days were probably numbered after Saint Joe’s longtime athletic director retired last spring. In the end, Martelli’s dismissal was announced in a bloodless press release. “I thought I was a part of the fabric of the place,” Martelli told The Athletic’s Dana O’Neil soon after the news broke. “And I thought the place was a part of my fabric.” With that, what once was local was truly national now.

[PeterRamTime]

https://deadspin.com/the-city-got-too-b ... 1833438626

Quite the last paragraph.............says it all. love the adjective "bloodless" press release. and then the last line - so very true

Winning is the bottom line, but it’s hard not to think that, in a bygone era, Dunphy and Martelli might have been better able to choreograph their endings. Dunphy was asked to leave last year; he reportedly only agreed to stay another season on the condition that Aaron McKie, a Temple legend and one of his assistants, got to succeed him. Martelli’s days were probably numbered after Saint Joe’s longtime athletic director retired last spring. In the end, Martelli’s dismissal was announced in a bloodless press release. “I thought I was a part of the fabric of the place,” Martelli told The Athletic’s Dana O’Neil soon after the news broke. “And I thought the place was a part of my fabric.” With that, what once was local was truly national now.

Interesting how they attributed Temple's struggles lately to their move into the AAC.

They almost became a completely different team once they moved. They have ust seemed like an inexperienced team all these years in the AAC.

Football has been much better, but basketball has faded.

[reef]

Hoiberg to Nebraska seems like a very good fit there nice hirec

[rambone 78]

Martelli is saying that he wasn't given a choice to resign...straight up firing.

He still wants to coach again somewhere.

[steviep123]

Martelli is saying that he wasn't given a choice to resign...straight up firing.

He still wants to coach again somewhere.

Anyone think he shows up at GW or another A10 team (assuming there's another opening)? Or takes a year off? I'm guessing CBS or ESPN already wants him to do some studio work.

[bigappleram]

Martelli is saying that he wasn't given a choice to resign...straight up firing.

He still wants to coach again somewhere.

All I can say is he was given the choice to step down, and wouldn't do it. Agree the messaging was rough from the AD.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Martelli is saying that he wasn't given a choice to resign...straight up firing.

He still wants to coach again somewhere.

Anyone think he shows up at GW or another A10 team (assuming there's another opening)? Or takes a year off? I'm guessing CBS or ESPN already wants him to do some studio work.

Televisions are quaking in fear at the thought of Young Frankenstein on a studio show.

[RF1]

No surprise that Martelli is not going quietly. This would be going against his nature. It has always been and will always be ALL ABOUT PM. No one should be shocked by how Phil is reacting.

For those that think Martelli is such a good guy, look up former Hawk player Todd O'Brien. Martelli would not sign the waiver to allow him to play elsewhere for his final season of eligibility after graduating from St Joe's.

[Da_Process_Survivor]

No surprise that Martelli is not going quietly. This would be going against his nature. It has always been and will always be ALL ABOUT PM. No one should be shocked by how Phil is reacting.

For those that think Martelli is such a good guy, look up former Hawk player Todd O'Brien. Martelli would not sign the waiver to allow him to play elsewhere for his final season of eligibility after graduating from St Joe's.

yup. being run out of town on a rail is too good for Martelli.

he made his bed with how he's acted and treated folks over his time there...karma wins in the end

[ace]

Tim Miles has not been fired and has a game to coach tonight, and yet...

I want Nebraska to win the NIT, just to prolong the awkwardness of all this.

[steviep123]

Tim Miles has not been fired and has a game to coach tonight, and yet...

I want Nebraska to win the NIT, just to prolong the awkwardness of all this.

I'm on board.

[RF1]

I have a soft spot for Miles as he gave URI an equal H&H series a few years ago which resulted in Rhody winning its first game over a top 25 ranked team in many years. It was even more special as it happened right in front of our fans on the Ryan Center floor. Very few P5 schools ever agree to play in Kinston.

[TruePoint]

No surprise that Martelli is not going quietly. This would be going against his nature. It has always been and will always be ALL ABOUT PM. No one should be shocked by how Phil is reacting.

For those that think Martelli is such a good guy, look up former Hawk player Todd O'Brien. Martelli would not sign the waiver to allow him to play elsewhere for his final season of eligibility after graduating from St Joe's.

I have no love for Martelli and am not advocating that he should have kept his job. My point isn’t even really that he deserved better than the treatment he got. My only point is that based on the way the AD handled, I don’t have a lot of confidence that she’s going to be any good at this job. Poor management, and especially poor management born out of stupidity, is a major pet peeve of mine.