Is this a “rebuilding” year for our URI Rams?

[TruePoint]

Ace, I understand that the perspective you bring to these discussions is primarily Hurley-focused, and I don’t begrudge it and actually I welcome it. But the main point of my post was not really to litigate how much or how little credit Cox gets for Hurley’s success or how much better this team would be with Hurley - it is not debatable at this point in their respective careers that Dan is a better coach. It’s almost impossible that he wouldn’t be with their comparative levels of experience alone, but beyond that I think Dan is a generational coaching talent and maybe Cox ends up being that, too, but obviously at this point in his career you can’t say that.

But my point was really just that I’m not sure that the ceiling for this roster is appreciably higher this season if Dan were coaching. That point is less about Dan than it is about the roster, but it’s also a helpful data point to note that Dan had teams here similar to where this team is at in terms of roster construction and those teams performed more or less in line with how the rosters indicated that they would. I think Dan is a great coach, but he isn’t a magician. And similarly, I think our fans should set their expectations in line with the roster rather than draw conclusions about the quality of the coach based how this team has performed compared to last year, when almost all of that difference is due to roster turnover that was happening no matter who the coach was.

[ace]

Of course Cox deserves credit as a contributor. I don’t know anyone who would argue that. And, there were only a handful of people, mainly in one awful thread, who credited Dave with it all (again, in their feelings or just being a willful jerk).

I don’t know if this team would be better under Dan, and MY GOD, that is a debate I really don’t want to have. It’s pointless and unknowable. There are adjustments to being a first time head coach- that it all comes back to you is a thing people know before taking the position, but the reality is something else. It’s evident in things like recruiting. It’s one thing to say you’re going to be the head coach but continue to recruit like an assistant, but it’s just not possible. Bashir Mason took grad courses his first year as a coach- not sustainable!

That adjustment to being the main guy may show up in the record a little, but I think it surfaces more in the stress level of the head coach. The Athletic ran a series of articles after last season with first year head coaches. I’d love to see Cox featured if they continue with it.

Ace, I understand that the perspective you bring to these discussions is primarily Hurley-focused, and I don’t begrudge it and actually I welcome it. But the main point of my post was not really to litigate how much or how little credit Cox gets for Hurley’s success or how much better this team would be with Hurley - it is not debatable at this point in their respective careers that Dan is a better coach. It’s almost impossible that he wouldn’t be with their comparative levels of experience alone, but beyond that I think Dan is a generational coaching talent and maybe Cox ends up being that, too, but obviously at this point in his career you can’t say that.

But my point was really just that I’m not sure that the ceiling for this roster is appreciably higher this season if Dan were coaching. That point is less about Dan than it is about the roster, but it’s also a helpful data point to note that Dan had teams here similar to where this team is at in terms of roster construction and those teams performed more or less in line with how the rosters indicated that they would. I think Dan is a great coach, but he isn’t a magician. And similarly, I think our fans should set their expectations in line with the roster rather than draw conclusions about the quality of the coach based how this team has performed compared to last year, when almost all of that difference is due to roster turnover that was happening no matter who the coach was.

Are you just setting me up for that other poster to take another shot at me? I get your larger point, but can’t I address part of it while adding some general comments about first year coaches without this being the response?

Roster comparisons are tough. We know what EC and Hassan and Jared turned out to be. Is there a comparable freshman in this group? Tyrese, for sure. Hopefully Jermaine. Was there a Dowtin type on the 13-14 or 14-15 teams? I don’t think so, especially when you consider the type of success and experiences he had early in his career. I don’t see the leadership on this team like we did with Biruta and TJ, but maybe it’s of a different sort? The 13-14 team still had significant roster space taken up by players who were not A10 level players. I don’t see that with this group, except at the end of the roster. The 14-15 team went 13-5 in conference and finished second. The takeaway point is simply, without talk of comparison, that it’s too early to judge Cox, who I continue to believe will be very good. I think anyone who is down on him make up a tiny but repetitive group.

[TruePoint]

Yeah, it is fair to say that the two teams are not exactly comparable. Munford was really good on the 13-14 team, though, (and ironically is exactly what this team is missing). I’m not trying to set you up, I was just trying to say that while I always find Dan to be an interesting topic of conversation, my point was not really how Dan would have done with this group other than to say I believe the drop off from last year has more to do with roster turnover and experience level of the two teams than it does with coaching. Next year will be the real test for Dave. That team, on paper, should be good in my opinion. It will also show more about how Dave is running this program than in-game coaching this season with a limited rotation and being forced to lean on a bunch of freshmen - development, roster building, etc., even scheduling. That will all be on him.

[ramster]

So what is it?
Rebuild?
Reload?
Other?

[RF1]

So what is it?
Rebuild?
Reload?
Other?

Tear down deconstruct year. No new construction yet seen.

[rambone 78]

It could be a rebuild next year, depending on how many leave.

Could be an even bigger one the following year, with a new staff.

As for Thorr right now, my guess is after tonight, him and DC need to have a little chat.

[ramster]

It could be a rebuild next year, depending on how many leave.

Could be an even bigger one the following year, with a new staff.

As for Thorr right now, my guess is after tonight, him and DC need to have a little chat.

I didn’t really mean the question seriously Rambone. All the discussion and brainpower spent debating whether the season was a rebuilding one, or reloading or the-whatever.

Good thing Nevada cancelled as that $50,000 is looking much better now based on what’s happened this season.

[rambone 78]

It could be a rebuild next year, depending on how many leave.

Could be an even bigger one the following year, with a new staff.

As for Thorr right now, my guess is after tonight, him and DC need to have a little chat.

I didn’t really mean the question seriously Rambone. All the discussion and brainpower spent debating whether the season was a rebuilding one, or reloading or the-whatever.

Good thing Nevada cancelled as that $50,000 is looking much better now based on what’s happened this season.

I know, but I think we now know the answer.....it's a rebuild lol...but it's not really funny is it?

[reef]

Yeah I was sure fooled , I thought we would be a lot better for sure

Definitely a rebuild

[Blue Man]

So what is it?
Rebuild?
Reload?
Other?

Hell. It’s hell.

[ramster]

So what is it?
Rebuild?
Reload?
Other?

Hell. It’s hell.

Yes,
A rebuild or reload to me says there is something positive down the road. Not feeling that now, and Unfortunately I’m not as surprised by today as most.

[rambone 78]

I wasn't that surprised either. Watching the game, it didn't even bother me that much. And that's bad.

What makes it even worse, Dayton is not a good road team.....you can use the word "pathetic" to describe the game....but that's being kind.

[TruePoint]

I wasn’t really surprised, either. I can’t say I saw it coming, but once it was clear it was happening (90 seconds into the game) it was not exactly a shock. This team lost its ability to shock me after they mailed it in at UMass. Not even the Duquesne debacle surprised me all that much.

[hrstrat57]

Bothered me....

a lot

My school, embarrassed.....I falsely believed those days were gone.

No funny joke to this alum despite my attempts at comedy with funny GIFS.

[rambone 78]

Their practices must be a lot of fun.

I believe that how well they practice definitely affects how they play in games.

None of it can be good.

[Billyboy78]

No, it's not a rebuild. It's a disaster.

[RF1]

Sadly this program is YEARS AWAY from getting back to the NCAA. I think we are now in the midst of a rebuilding ERA. Not at all confident right now that this coach or any of these players will still be here to see it through.

[Blue Man]

It wasn’t and it should’ve been. But it is now.

[RhowdyRam02]

Sadly this program is YEARS AWAY from getting back to the NCAA. I think we are now in the midst of a rebuilding ERA. Not at all confident right now that this coach or any of these players will still be here to see it through.

Sadly, it appears that Jeff and Cyril have played their last tournament games already. I really can't believe I just typed that, I didn't see this coming before the season

[adam914]

It definitely isn't a rebuilding year, but for different reasons than I thought previously. Now it's because we haven't started rebuilding anything yet. We're still in the process of demolishing it.

[ElmCityRhody]

Sadly this program is YEARS AWAY from getting back to the NCAA. I think we are now in the midst of a rebuilding ERA. Not at all confident right now that this coach or any of these players will still be here to see it through.

This is why we need to CUT BAIT after this year

This team plays like crap and with no heart

[ElmCityRhody]

They gave up on coach - his message and voice is sadly not being followed - he has lost the team and they are not playing for him

[McRam]

Will Fatts, Jeff, and CT all of a sudden become 35% 3 point shooters? Will Hammond help alleviate that problem?

That's what could hold us back. UMass and Duquesne beat us because they can make 3's.....if we continue to not defend the 3, we're going to see more losses like the last 2.....

Jeff was lethal from 3 in HS. He’s going through a slump. Fatts is Fatts. CT will not play 25-30 minutes a game next year. Guaranteed. We have a solid 7 rotation. Add 4 more bodies to the roster that are expected to contribute, Cox will really have the flexibility to cut playing time based on performance.

4 more bodies- do you think this is a good recruiting class?

[reef]

We are in a total rebuild and the future is not so bright

[Rhodyram]

I posted this question previously but it got buried- when is the time that players typically announce intentions to transfer? By no means do I want this to be speculative for members on the current team- just not familiar with a general timeline. Also, do transfers(non-graduate) still have to sit a year?

[ace]

I posted this question previously but it got buried- when is the time that players typically announce intentions to transfer? By no means do I want this to be speculative for members on the current team- just not familiar with a general timeline. Also, do transfers(non-graduate) still have to sit a year?

Transfer decisions tend to get announced in April.

As for sitting out, the answer is an unhelpful “depends,” but yeah, more sit than play as of now. It is something the NCAA is taking a look at.

[Rhodyram]

Ace- thanks. May be an interesting spring I guess.

[Rhody Guy]

Bunch of chicken littles!. Next year will be much different. Mark it down

[NYGFan_Section208]

Bunch of chicken littles!. Next year will be much different. Mark it down

/just like this year...different from last year? Hopefully, not that kinda different.

[TruePoint]

Sadly this program is YEARS AWAY from getting back to the NCAA. I think we are now in the midst of a rebuilding ERA. Not at all confident right now that this coach or any of these players will still be here to see it through.

This is why we need to CUT BAIT after this year

This team plays like crap and with no heart

I’m on the fence about what the program should do after this year (an entirely separate thing than what they can or will do). I can’t believe I’m even considering the idea, but I’d still like to see how the rest of the season goes. I also acknowledge that I just don’t have access to all the information that would ultimately go into making that decision.

Having said all of that, please realize that if we did move on from the coach after this year, it isn’t going to fix the problem next season. It’ll probably make it worse. Essentially, by doing that, you’re saying you’re 100% convinced this cannot be fixed by the current coach and waiting any more time is just a waste. If you want to have any chance of being good next year, even if it’s a slim one, you have to give Cox a chance to figure it out. That’s the reality.

Before this season, I thought next year’s team would be the best team we’ve had here since the late nineties. Up until the UMass game, I was less confident in the ceiling but still virtually certain Cox would figure it out and this team would be good next season. After the Dayton game I started to question it, and now I doubt it. But I still want to wait to see the rest of the games to see if I can have my opinion changed back the other way - even to a small degree. Just want to see any sign of life. It’s a big decision to punt on a season where the team’s ultimate upside is so high, especially when it will cost you so much money to do that - you have to be totally convinced that there is zero chance he can figure it out. I don’t think we should be so gung ho about it at this point despite the emotional pull in that direction. It’s a really tough call - tougher than it feels like right now in the midst of this awful stretch.

[theblueram]

I had us at 20-10 with a chance at NIT this year. With full expectations of dancing next year. Regardless of how this year pans out, my expectations will not change for next year.

[Rhodyram]

Overall underachievement this year/No real improvement or growth from freshmen/ less optimistic about team for next year

And from what I can see, teams in the A10 are building and not losing a lot of senior talent.

[RF1]

Anyone predicting an NCAA run next year on the heels of a probable losing season are not facing reality. It is extremely rare these days for teams to make such a dramatic improvement in a single season, especially if there is not a huge influx of new high level talent.

The likely and unfortunate future prospect URI is facing is several seasons without an NCAA appearance. As I wrote in another post, I am not even confident that this coach or any of the current players will participate in the tournament. It is getting increasingly difficult for teams from leagues such as the A-10 to make the tourney. It is even far more difficult for such a program if it is regressing. Losing creates a domino effect which negatively affects many different areas (recruiting, scheduling, tv appearances, attendance, revenues, etc...). This creates a momentum which in turn helps makes matters even worse and more difficult to recover from.

[NYGFan_Section208]

We lost to Fordham and UMass...half of their conference wins are against us. I disagree that a new coach next year could make it 'worse'.

Is a new guy the best or only call? Dunno. But, pretty sure it would not make it worse. If the current coach can't motivate these guys now (and you can't watch and say they look motivated)...not sure why we'd expect that to change next year. Get a name coach, probably no one of impact leaves and others may be attracted... no downside, other than expense (easy to say about someone else's ching).

Hang on to that bobblehead...sometimes the value in these things comes from their obscure footnote type status...

[TruePoint]

It would make it worse because it would blow up the entire roster. If you are of the opinion that this roster actually stinks and the guys aren’t as talented as we thought they were, then maybe that doesn’t bother you - but why are you blaming the coaching? On the other hand, if you think the talent is there but it isn’t being coached properly, then the question is whether you are better off hoping the coaching improves (not an insane idea considering it’s his first season and you can upgrade the staff if needed) or going out and hiring a (hopefully) better coach knowing that it will likely take a few years to restock the roster even to the level it is at now.

I’m sure that you’d end up with a couple holdover guys after a coaching change, but looking at the roster I honestly can’t think of one guy that would definitely be back (maybe Dana? Maybe) with a new coach if you assume Cyril and Jeff could get waivers to play somewhere else next year. Would be basically a total rebuild to keep with the name of this thread.

[theblueram]

Anyone predicting an NCAA run next year on the heels of a probable losing season are not facing reality. It is extremely rare these days for teams to make such a dramatic improvement in a single season, especially if there is not a huge influx of new high level talent.

The likely and unfortunate future prospect URI is facing is several seasons without an NCAA appearance. As I wrote in another post, I am not even confident that this coach or any of the current players will participate in the tournament. It is getting increasingly difficult for teams from leagues such as the A-10 to make the tourney. It is even far more difficult for such a program if it is regressing. Losing creates a domino effect which negatively affects many different areas (recruiting, scheduling, tv appearances, attendance, revenues, etc...). This creates a momentum which in turn helps makes matters even worse and more difficult to recover from.

I wasn't predicting, just expecting.

[NYGFan_Section208]

I get what you're saying TP. I don't think it's the players. So, that leaves the coach. The coach doesn't appear able to motivate these guys to where it looks like there's any regular fire or enthusiasm. Not sure that's the kind of thing a coach can improve on, with the same core next year? Like, if he can't motivate these guys this year, why would we expect the same group to be motivated to play for him next year? And, seems possible there's scenarios where, no coaching change nets more transfers out than a new hire would?

[Rhodyram]

It’s worrisome that the freshmen would need motivation from a coach when all the motivation they should need is the opportunity for playing time.

[TruePoint]

208 - and I definitely understand that perspective. I don’t even disagree. I’m just not ready to come to a final conclusion on it. To argue the other side, though, coaching is a job like any other job, and in every job I’ve ever had you do get better as you learn the nuances and fine points. I don’t see why a coach can’t similarly learn and improve. Again, not saying I think that’s the winning argument. Just that it is one of the two to choose between. And just because you think it is possible to learn and improve doesn’t necessarily mean you believe that your particular guy will. I just think it’s a harder call than some people are making it seem.

[ace]

They’re not going to get rid of Cox, and I don’t think they should. He can grow into this job and be successful, IMO. Besides, the coaching profession is tight, and URI doesn’t want to be the school who gives up on a guy after a season. I think an evaluation of the whole staff at the end of the season is warranted, as I think it is for most teams.

[Rhodymob05]

I think the real problem is that we should of had a coach come in here that already learned the nuances and fine points. Hiring cox has dug URI a deep hole that we can’t afford to be in.

[theblueram]

I think the real problem is that we should of had a coach come in here that already learned the nuances and fine points. Hiring cox has dug URI a deep hole that we can’t afford to be in.

The thought was we wouldn't be in a hole. Talk about giving a new coach a jump start. Top 50 recruiting class and returning players from an NCAAT. If we went in another direction, the class probably would have bailed, maybe with some upperclassmen. That would def be a hole. So, here we are.

[Blue Man]

PC made the wrong hire in Keno Davis, made a quick change and found the right guy in Cooley.

You can’t allow this to go on.

It took Hurley 6 years to build this program. We had near sellouts this season and it took woeful efforts and performances to bring us back down in a matter of weeks.

My optimism for the future is flat gone.

[Rhodyram]

PC made the wrong hire in Keno Davis, made a quick change and found the right guy in Cooley.

You can’t allow this to go on.

It took Hurley 6 years to build this program. We had near sellouts this season and it took woeful efforts and performances to bring us back down in a matter of weeks.

My optimism for the future is flat gone.

Keno stuck around for 3 years.

[RhowdyRam02]

PC made the wrong hire in Keno Davis, made a quick change and found the right guy in Cooley.

You can’t allow this to go on.

It took Hurley 6 years to build this program. We had near sellouts this season and it took woeful efforts and performances to bring us back down in a matter of weeks.

My optimism for the future is flat gone.

It's all been a nightmare since the Duke game

[reef]

As much as I want to make a change after this year I really feel like you have to let Cox coach next year

If we don't see noticeable improvement then he needs to go after year 2

[RF1]

PC made the wrong hire in Keno Davis, made a quick change and found the right guy in Cooley.

It took three full seasons before PC canned Keno Davis.

Keno Davis Tenure at PC:
2008–09 Providence 19–14 10–8 T–6th NIT First Round
2009–10 Providence 12–19 4–14 15th
2010–11 Providence 15–17 4–14 14th

[Blue Man]

PC made the wrong hire in Keno Davis, made a quick change and found the right guy in Cooley.

It took three full seasons before PC canned Keno Davis.

Keno Davis Tenure at PC:
2008–09 Providence 19–14 10–8 T–6th NIT First Round
2009–10 Providence 12–19 4–14 15th
2010–11 Providence 15–17 4–14 14th

I guess I was thinking relative to Jim Baron haha.

If we don’t make the NCAA next year you have to make a change.

[Dre3000]

Crazy to me people are actually saying Cox should get the axe at the end of this, his first season as a head coach. Most of the same people were the ones saying Dayton made the wrong hire and won't be the same. Dayton returned more than we did last season and hired an experienced coach, who still struggled his first year finishing 3 games under .500. They lost people during this offseason and now have things rolling. Does Cox need to improve? Absolutely. But let's relax with the "he needs to be fired" talk. That's certainly premature.

[Section104]

Crazy to me people are actually saying Cox should get the axe at the end of this, his first season as a head coach. Most of the same people were the ones saying Dayton made the wrong hire and won't be the same. Dayton returned more than we did last season and hired an experienced coach, who still struggled his first year finishing 3 games under .500. They lost people during this offseason and now have things rolling. Does Cox need to improve? Absolutely. But let's relax with the "he needs to be fired" talk. That's certainly premature.

Dayton doesn't have things rolling...they have a great freshmen in Toppin, but are 16-9 with a zero percent chance at an at-large. As a team that fills a 12,000+ person arena they expect better results and the way Grant has managed end game situations has some of the fan base continuing to question whether Grant was the right guy for the job.