1/27 | UMass Minutemen | 2 PM (Stadium Network)

[Billyboy78]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

[Rhody83]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Does he contribute in a positive way as much as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close. Silly comparison.

Thompson’s stats
27 mins/game (4th)
6.5 ppg (5th)
32% FG (7th)
26% 3P (5th)
67% FT (5th)
4.4 Rebs (3rd)
1.3 Ast
1.3 TO

What do you like about Thompson’s game?

[josephski]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Does he contribute in a positive way as much as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close. Silly comparison.

Thompson’s stats
27 mins/game (4th)
6.5 ppg (5th)
32% FG (7th)
26% 3P (5th)
67% FT (5th)
4.4 Rebs (3rd)
1.3 Ast
1.3 TO

What do you like about Thompson’s game?

He's tied for second in steals and is second in blocks. Probably either first or second in charges taken.

I don't think he's great by any means, but I also don't think there are many alternatives. This team's roster as things stand right now is pretty mediocre. It is what it is.

[ramster]

Disagree with many of these comments, sorry
There are plenty of alternatives
Tyrese Martin over Christian Thompson is not even close, never was.
Ed Cooley started Jommy Nichols, David Duke and Reeves from Day 1. He started these 3 freshmen ahead of several guys who clearly had more experience, seniority, proven results. But he did it. Played who he thought were the best. Many here waxed philosophically about Cooley in the Jim Baron 2.0 thread trashing Hurley. If Cooley makes the NCAA this year it will be a huge achievement but I’ll look back at those 3 freshmen starting as a key coaching decision. Not an easy one but a right one.

It took way too long to get Tyrese Martin into the line up PERIOD. This is not about Harris. It’s about Martin being so much better than Thompson and you have not seen all the gap in talent, ability, confidence and shooting yet. I get giving breaks to upper classmen but tell that to all the PC upperclassmen who watched 3 freshmen take starting roles.

But worse than CTs shooting was his defense from game 1. Hustle, aggressiveness were not there like they should have been. His man beat him to the hoop on drives often.

Martin should start. Akeke could have been persuaded to stay. Tate can shoot and I’d prefer him over Thompson. I have not seen the huge gap in defensive ability and desire between CT snd Silverio that seems to keep coming up. I’ve seen Silveeio unselfish, Pass the ball well, play adequate defense,,,,,,I keep hearing this reason for Silverio not playing much but for the life of me I don’t see it. I’ve seen JT and FR take I’ll advised shots many times and then seen their man beat them down the court for breakaway layups.

I’ve been saying Martin starting since May, MAY. It’s been tough to see how slow the input of him into the lineup has been while watching Fatts, Thompson and even sometimes Dowtin struggle in the guard spots this year with shooting . I could make the case that either JT or FR should have given more of their minutes to Martin from day 1.

Martin could and should be All Rookie Team. Those who defend the Coaching strategies up to now will say martin really came on and improved. Others know he should have been brought along much faster and given many more minutes early on and even now. Look around at other A10 Freshmen - they are getting many more minutes than ours.
Don’t need to base decisions on how Hassan, EC, JT, etc were brought along slowly because some of them were brought along too slow as well imho. But this is a different team.

Still a lot of games to go but if Fatts and Thompson keep playing 35 and 30 minutes per game and they remain the bottom two 3 point shooters in the A10 it’s going to be a tough February and March. No reason why their 3PG shooting will improve - best is they stop taking 3s. Play the freshmen - broken record continues.

[ramster]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Does he contribute in a positive way as much as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close. Silly comparison.

Thompson’s stats
27 mins/game (4th)
6.5 ppg (5th)
32% FG (7th)
26% 3P (5th)
67% FT (5th)
4.4 Rebs (3rd)
1.3 Ast
1.3 TO

What do you like about Thompson’s game?

He's tied for second in steals and is second in blocks. Probably either first or second in charges taken.

I don't think he's great by any means, but I also don't think there are many alternatives. This team's roster as things stand right now is pretty mediocre. It is what it is.

So I take you disagree with the Martin for Thompson starting line up change that finally occurred? Not much difference in talent and performance between the two?

[josephski]

Does he contribute in a positive way as much as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close. Silly comparison.

Thompson’s stats
27 mins/game (4th)
6.5 ppg (5th)
32% FG (7th)
26% 3P (5th)
67% FT (5th)
4.4 Rebs (3rd)
1.3 Ast
1.3 TO

What do you like about Thompson’s game?

He's tied for second in steals and is second in blocks. Probably either first or second in charges taken.

I don't think he's great by any means, but I also don't think there are many alternatives. This team's roster as things stand right now is pretty mediocre. It is what it is.

So I take you disagree with the Martin for Thompson starting line up change that finally occurred? Not much difference in talent and performance between the two?

Not sure how you got that out of my response, but no, I completely agree with Martin starting over Thompson. I originally wanted Martin starting at the beginning of the year although I think the way it worked out is fine. I just don't know how much you can cut Thompson's minutes at this point.

I think anywhere from 20-30 minutes for Thompson is fair depending on how the game goes. If Harris was capable of playing 30 min and if Tate showed some more consistency then yea, I think Thompson would be more around 10-15 however that's not the case. Is it ideal to have a guy like Thompson playing up to 30 minutes a game? No, but we don't have many other options.

Also if it were possible I would have Fatt's playing 15-20 minutes a game because frankly he's played like shit most of the season. Again, that's not really possible because we don't have the roster to do that without making the team even worse.

[Bill Koch]

Disagree with many of these comments, sorry
There are plenty of alternatives
Tyrese Martin over Christian Thompson is not even close, never was.
Ed Cooley started Jommy Nichols, David Duke and Reeves from Day 1. He started these 3 freshmen ahead of several guys who clearly had more experience, seniority, proven results. But he did it. Played who he thought were the best. Many here waxed philosophically about Cooley in the Jim Baron 2.0 thread trashing Hurley. If Cooley makes the NCAA this year it will be a huge achievement but I’ll look back at those 3 freshmen starting as a key coaching decision. Not an easy one but a right one.

It took way too long to get Tyrese Martin into the line up PERIOD. This is not about Harris. It’s about Martin being so much better than Thompson and you have not seen all the gap in talent, ability, confidence and shooting yet. I get giving breaks to upper classmen but tell that to all the PC upperclassmen who watched 3 freshmen take starting roles.

But worse than CTs shooting was his defense from game 1. Hustle, aggressiveness were not there like they should have been. His man beat him to the hoop on drives often.

Martin should start. Akeke could have been persuaded to stay. Tate can shoot and I’d prefer him over Thompson. I have not seen the huge gap in defensive ability and desire between CT snd Silverio that seems to keep coming up. I’ve seen Silveeio unselfish, Pass the ball well, play adequate defense,,,,,,I keep hearing this reason for Silverio not playing much but for the life of me I don’t see it. I’ve seen JT and FR take I’ll advised shots many times and then seen their man beat them down the court for breakaway layups.

I’ve been saying Martin starting since May, MAY. It’s been tough to see how slow the input of him into the lineup has been while watching Fatts, Thompson and even sometimes Dowtin struggle in the guard spots this year with shooting . I could make the case that either JT or FR should have given more of their minutes to Martin from day 1.

Martin could and should be All Rookie Team. Those who defend the Coaching strategies up to now will say martin really came on and improved. Others know he should have been brought along much faster and given many more minutes early on and even now. Look around at other A10 Freshmen - they are getting many more minutes than ours.
Don’t need to base decisions on how Hassan, EC, JT, etc were brought along slowly because some of them were brought along too slow as well imho. But this is a different team.

Still a lot of games to go but if Fatts and Thompson keep playing 35 and 30 minutes per game and they remain the bottom two 3 point shooters in the A10 it’s going to be a tough February and March. No reason why their 3PG shooting will improve - best is they stop taking 3s. Play the freshmen - broken record continues.

Ability is one thing, but culture is entirely another. Ed Cooley had a major problem on his hands at the mid-year -- Makai Ashton-Langford's father was actively talking transfer. And that came directly as a result of David Duke being given the first chance to start at the point guard from Game 1 as a freshman. By several statistical measures -- 2-point shooting, 3-point shooting, assist rate, turnover rate, overall offensive efficiency -- even Maliek White has been a better player than Duke over the balance of this season. He could also have made a case for more time from the start.

That was a mess of Cooley's own making. If Ashton-Langford had been ineffective over the first 10-12 games, the decision to go to Duke -- ideally based on some sort of ability he flashed off the bench, let's say -- would have been indisputable. David Cox wisely avoided such a situation with Christion Thompson, and nobody reasonable could dispute now that Tyrese Martin has taken and earned his spot for years to come. Making such a decision in the preseason wouldn't have been based on anything more than subjectivity.

Part of that goes back to how each player was recruited. Four-star, top-60 talent generally doesn't commit to Providence or URI without a guarantee -- you come here, you start. Period. Duke and AJ Reeves fall into that category, as did Jared Terrell (and, as a transfer, Kuran Iverson). Martin did not. His pitch was almost certainly different -- you come here, you'll have a good chance to play right away and potentially start down the line. That sort of honesty throughout the process is how you can continue to both bring in quality players and be relatively sure they won't leave.

Jimmy Nichols didn't start Providence's game against DePaul. He's shown next to nothing over his last six into Seton Hall -- 10 points combined, 9 rebounds combined. But now, to make a lineup change, you have to go back to an upperclassman who might have been convinced all along he was better than the freshman. Isaiah Jackson started the first three games before Nichols was shoehorned into the lineup -- 13-for-24 shooting, 17 rebounds, 8 assists, 4 turnovers, 8 steals. Did he really deserve to be demoted? And now, if Jackson doesn't play well down the stretch, Cooley has nowhere else to turn. He'll have to go back to the freshman who regressed in January and could have shaky confidence after being benched. That's less effective man management than if Jackson had struggled through 10-12 games and Nichols had proven through his play -- not perception or potential -- to be the better option. It hurts both of them.

In terms of other freshmen around the Atlantic 10, sure, you can cite the stats. But here's where the focus should be -- team success. Last season three of the league's oldest four teams by minutes played -- St. Bonaventure, URI and Davidson -- went to the NCAAs. In 2016-17 Dayton, VCU and URI were three of the league's oldest five teams by minutes played -- all three went to the NCAAs. Four of the current top six oldest teams by minutes played in the league this season -- Saint Louis, George Mason, VCU and Dayton -- are above URI in the standings. None of that is a coincidence. (La Salle is the consistent outlier in this equation because they take transfers who are forced to sit. It's not due to their own recruits.)

[Rhody83]

I agree the PC experiment is a reason not to start Fr early in the year. AJ was lightning in a bottle and the best offensive player on PC. Duke struggled the first half of the year. Nichols has struggled all year. PC isn’t really having much team success.

Posters throwing Fatts’ playing time in the discussion with Thompson’s playing time are shortsighted. Fatts is needed for Rhody’s offense. Remember what Jeff said after the SLU game that Fatts didn’t play in. Fatts was sick against UMass and didn’t have a good game. The other 5 games since returning he has 19, 11, 18, 20 & 19. He had one bad game in that stretch (and so did everyone else) vs Mason.

[ramster]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Where we differ is I do not think he plays hard.

[Blue Man]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Where we differ is I do not think he plays hard.

This is honestly my main criticism of CT. I don’t like to ride a player if they’re not talented, but not trying is a huge problem for me as a fan.

Obviously the kid is talented, but in both this UMass game and last nights debacle - you have this kid playing the four and he just watches rebounds go over or around him without so much as a flinch.

Ball on the floor? Look and see where CT is.

Defensive switch? “Eh, I’ll get to him don’t worry” is what his steps over there say.

He looks like he’s pouting or not trying or both.

That’s why everyone is frustrated - because that’s the one thing Hurley wouldn’t give a chance to, lack of effort.

[rambone 78]

I would rather see the freshmen be out there and learn from their mistakes, instead of someone who is half assing it.....and what the hell is CT playing the 4 anyway....if Tate or Harris isn't out there, then put Martin at the 4...he can jump through the roof, and he's at least trying.

[NYGFan_Section208]

I don't get why so many people are down on Thompson. Is he a great offensive player? No. But I think he plays hard. Does he make mistakes? Yes. Does he make as many mistakes as Cyril or Fatts? Not even close.

Where we differ is I do not think he plays hard.

This is honestly my main criticism of CT. I don’t like to ride a player if they’re not talented, but not trying is a huge problem for me as a fan.

Obviously the kid is talented, but in both this UMass game and last nights debacle - you have this kid playing the four and he just watches rebounds go over or around him without so much as a flinch.

Ball on the floor? Look and see where CT is.

Defensive switch? “Eh, I’ll get to him don’t worry” is what his steps over there say.

He looks like he’s pouting or not trying or both.

That’s why everyone is frustrated - because that’s the one thing Hurley wouldn’t give a chance to, lack of effort.

BlueMan,your signature line is the funniest thing I've read all day (I have to read a lot of boring shtuff most days)...This is a beautiful thing: "Don't bother trying in life. Life is desperate to beat you and it treats beating you like the super bowl. There's nothing you can do about it." - Head Coach David Cox, probably

[rambone 78]

Hopefully DC is regretting saying that...that was weak sauce...yep.

Well actually, this Saturday is OUR Super Bowl, right?????? Fucking ay.....

[Blue Man]

Where we differ is I do not think he plays hard.

This is honestly my main criticism of CT. I don’t like to ride a player if they’re not talented, but not trying is a huge problem for me as a fan.

Obviously the kid is talented, but in both this UMass game and last nights debacle - you have this kid playing the four and he just watches rebounds go over or around him without so much as a flinch.

Ball on the floor? Look and see where CT is.

Defensive switch? “Eh, I’ll get to him don’t worry” is what his steps over there say.

He looks like he’s pouting or not trying or both.

That’s why everyone is frustrated - because that’s the one thing Hurley wouldn’t give a chance to, lack of effort.

BlueMan,your signature line is the funniest thing I've read all day (I have to read a lot of boring shtuff most days)...This is a beautiful thing: "Don't bother trying in life. Life is desperate to beat you and it treats beating you like the super bowl. There's nothing you can do about it." - Head Coach David Cox, probably

I really like Dave. I just hate that quote. Gives me baron-like shivers. Needed some levity to feel better about it. Happy to put a smile on anyone’s face after the last debacle.

[DC_Rams]

This is honestly my main criticism of CT. I don’t like to ride a player if they’re not talented, but not trying is a huge problem for me as a fan.

Obviously the kid is talented, but in both this UMass game and last nights debacle - you have this kid playing the four and he just watches rebounds go over or around him without so much as a flinch.

Ball on the floor? Look and see where CT is.

Defensive switch? “Eh, I’ll get to him don’t worry” is what his steps over there say.

He looks like he’s pouting or not trying or both.

That’s why everyone is frustrated - because that’s the one thing Hurley wouldn’t give a chance to, lack of effort.

BlueMan,your signature line is the funniest thing I've read all day (I have to read a lot of boring shtuff most days)...This is a beautiful thing: "Don't bother trying in life. Life is desperate to beat you and it treats beating you like the super bowl. There's nothing you can do about it." - Head Coach David Cox, probably

I really like Dave. I just hate that quote. Gives me baron-like shivers. Needed some levity to feel better about it. Happy to put a smile on anyone’s face after the last debacle.

But he didn’t say that. Im sure coach knows you and your wife man, don’t sell him up the river so soon. Things will work out. You’ve all taken his quote entirely out of context so that it fits your motives.

[rambone 78]

Well there haven't been any quotes from DC since the Duquesne disaster....just as well I guess.

He has to be pissed....wonder if his players will get the message?

[EGram]

IMO, if the team does not show improvement this year we need to look at getting another coach for what should be our best chance at the NCAA's in ages. This team has some guys with legit talent IMO, it's just the coach is in love with some of his "DMV guys". Frankly like Hurley but even worse degree showed an inability to find talent to overproduce their rankings, utterly failed in the transfer market when other smaller schools often produce and coach up lesser players. Something even under the best years of Hurley we failed to do. Virtually every good player on even Hurley's teams had essentially peaked or very nearly peaked by the early part of soph year. The exception basically being Iverson and Robson, Another two Super talented guys we failed to turn into anything more than very good role players

At the time I felt we needed to keep Fatts and some other guys I heard were considering leaving the Keaney Blue. Truth is good, but good not great guards dime a dozen to a good coaching staff Cluees produces them out of thin air..

If we don't seriously improve i hope the team takes the good, serious look at Tim Cluess we should have last time. how else do you measure a coach's success in college compared top what expectations should be based on money, name recognition,, exposure, level of recruits available ect.. under this or essentially any other Criteria Clueless has been one of, if not the most successful coach in the nation, and not just a one or one or two year fluke,,... but a dude whos done it for over a decade now at Iona and CW post. If now URI it's an embarrassment to the a-10 no team has given him a shot.

As for Free throws and 3 point shooting.. Last years URI year is the only team in the same ballpark as any recent IONA team and it still was worse. Over the past 6 years Iona has shot at least 35% from 5 and 71-78% from FT. For example, our NCAA teams shot 65% and 71% from the line.. indeed we have one team (last year) in the Hurley era that shot better than 66% from the line... that's on the coaches imo.. Even this awful Iona is shooting 74% from the line and 35% from 3.. The failure to match Iona in these stats with far more touted recruits and resources n frankly an embarrassment for us and a great feather in Cluess cap.

Even the Cluess haters understand he teaches and coaches up offense/shooting better than any coach currently in the A-10

Give Cluess coach the money and resources he needs and we could legit be the "Gonzaga of the east'! Give him a shot that's our best chance of turning that boast into reality. imagine how good players like E.C, Terrell, Robinson, Iverson ect.. assuming he got them to shoot near the level he has with dozens of guards under his tutelage.?

Now despite all i said said id don't think he should be made HC immediately... think it's reasonable to give Cox a second season unless they got 100% dumpster fire in A-10 play.... and i understand many here have this odd idea Cluess would suddenly get the team to get to play d. how bout making him Associate heacoach with a 50% raise o his 400k Iona salary... with responsibility for New York area recruiting, Offense coaching... and transfers...

[Blue Man]

BlueMan,your signature line is the funniest thing I've read all day (I have to read a lot of boring shtuff most days)...This is a beautiful thing: "Don't bother trying in life. Life is desperate to beat you and it treats beating you like the super bowl. There's nothing you can do about it." - Head Coach David Cox, probably

I really like Dave. I just hate that quote. Gives me baron-like shivers. Needed some levity to feel better about it. Happy to put a smile on anyone’s face after the last debacle.

But he didn’t say that. Im sure coach knows you and your wife man, don’t sell him up the river so soon. Things will work out. You’ve all taken his quote entirely out of context so that it fits your motives.

Are you thinking anyone is taking that quote in my signature literally? Are you taking that quote literally? It says "probably" in an obvious form of satire.

The quote I'm talking about very obviously is the "it was their super bowl" quote from the UMass game, as an excuse to dismiss our uninspiring play.

I don't think I'm selling him up the river at all. Love Dave. Love Tasha. They're great representatives of the University and I'm pretty sure I'm clear in every post that I think he'll figure it out and that he was the right guy for the job.

If we can't even make jokes about post game press conferences on a message board to break the tension of what's been a horrible week of basketball - what are we doing on here?

[DC_Rams]

I really like Dave. I just hate that quote. Gives me baron-like shivers. Needed some levity to feel better about it. Happy to put a smile on anyone’s face after the last debacle.

But he didn’t say that. Im sure coach knows you and your wife man, don’t sell him up the river so soon. Things will work out. You’ve all taken his quote entirely out of context so that it fits your motives.

Are you thinking anyone is taking that quote in my signature literally? Are you taking that quote literally? It says "probably" in an obvious form of satire.

The quote I'm talking about very obviously is the "it was their super bowl" quote from the UMass game, as an excuse to dismiss our uninspiring play.

I don't think I'm selling him up the river at all. Love Dave. Love Tasha. They're great representatives of the University and I'm pretty sure I'm clear in every post that I think he'll figure it out and that he was the right guy for the job.

If we can't even make jokes about post game press conferences on a message board to break the tension of what's been a horrible week of basketball - what are we doing on here?

The quote was implying just the opposite. UMASS played their most inspired game of the season, against the defending A10 champs at home. I get the satirical take in your signature, but it’s a misrepresentation of what he was implying.

I personally don’t think that is clear from every post anymore, but that’s just me. But whatever, I give.....

[Blue Man]

But he didn’t say that. Im sure coach knows you and your wife man, don’t sell him up the river so soon. Things will work out. You’ve all taken his quote entirely out of context so that it fits your motives.

Are you thinking anyone is taking that quote in my signature literally? Are you taking that quote literally? It says "probably" in an obvious form of satire.

The quote I'm talking about very obviously is the "it was their super bowl" quote from the UMass game, as an excuse to dismiss our uninspiring play.

I don't think I'm selling him up the river at all. Love Dave. Love Tasha. They're great representatives of the University and I'm pretty sure I'm clear in every post that I think he'll figure it out and that he was the right guy for the job.

If we can't even make jokes about post game press conferences on a message board to break the tension of what's been a horrible week of basketball - what are we doing on here?

The quote was implying just the opposite. UMASS played their most inspired game of the season, against the defending A10 champs at home. I get the satirical take in your signature, but it’s a misrepresentation of what he was implying.

I personally don’t think that is clear from every post anymore, but that’s just me. But whatever, I give.....

I'm lost. Cox said something along the lines of "they came out like it was their super bowl" - which is enough of an implication to me, and others, that the other team tried really hard and we didn't. That sounds like an excuse. It honestly sounds like something Jim Baron would say to just make sum up a bad effort and move on.

Of course the quote is fake and something I made up. It's funny.

Just like when my friend and I were watching the Dukes game at half time joking about how Duquesne was going to play the 2nd half like it was their super bowl and there was nothing we could do about it. And then it happened, which was funny in a sad way.

It's an out-of-context joke. I think that's how jokes work. You take something that was said and extrapolate off of that, especially in situations that would crush your soul if you don't laugh at them.

So probably, to keep myself from going up to the balcony and jumping off of it on Saturday, I will keep joking about the super bowl comment until this team either makes the NCAA tournament or we stop not trying against teams that are bad.

[ramster]

Disagree with many of these comments, sorry
There are plenty of alternatives
Tyrese Martin over Christian Thompson is not even close, never was.
Ed Cooley started Jommy Nichols, David Duke and Reeves from Day 1. He started these 3 freshmen ahead of several guys who clearly had more experience, seniority, proven results. But he did it. Played who he thought were the best. Many here waxed philosophically about Cooley in the Jim Baron 2.0 thread trashing Hurley. If Cooley makes the NCAA this year it will be a huge achievement but I’ll look back at those 3 freshmen starting as a key coaching decision. Not an easy one but a right one.

It took way too long to get Tyrese Martin into the line up PERIOD. This is not about Harris. It’s about Martin being so much better than Thompson and you have not seen all the gap in talent, ability, confidence and shooting yet. I get giving breaks to upper classmen but tell that to all the PC upperclassmen who watched 3 freshmen take starting roles.

But worse than CTs shooting was his defense from game 1. Hustle, aggressiveness were not there like they should have been. His man beat him to the hoop on drives often.

Martin should start. Akeke could have been persuaded to stay. Tate can shoot and I’d prefer him over Thompson. I have not seen the huge gap in defensive ability and desire between CT snd Silverio that seems to keep coming up. I’ve seen Silveeio unselfish, Pass the ball well, play adequate defense,,,,,,I keep hearing this reason for Silverio not playing much but for the life of me I don’t see it. I’ve seen JT and FR take I’ll advised shots many times and then seen their man beat them down the court for breakaway layups.

I’ve been saying Martin starting since May, MAY. It’s been tough to see how slow the input of him into the lineup has been while watching Fatts, Thompson and even sometimes Dowtin struggle in the guard spots this year with shooting . I could make the case that either JT or FR should have given more of their minutes to Martin from day 1.

Martin could and should be All Rookie Team. Those who defend the Coaching strategies up to now will say martin really came on and improved. Others know he should have been brought along much faster and given many more minutes early on and even now. Look around at other A10 Freshmen - they are getting many more minutes than ours.
Don’t need to base decisions on how Hassan, EC, JT, etc were brought along slowly because some of them were brought along too slow as well imho. But this is a different team.

Still a lot of games to go but if Fatts and Thompson keep playing 35 and 30 minutes per game and they remain the bottom two 3 point shooters in the A10 it’s going to be a tough February and March. No reason why their 3PG shooting will improve - best is they stop taking 3s. Play the freshmen - broken record continues.

Ability is one thing, but culture is entirely another. Ed Cooley had a major problem on his hands at the mid-year -- Makai Ashton-Langford's father was actively talking transfer. And that came directly as a result of David Duke being given the first chance to start at the point guard from Game 1 as a freshman. By several statistical measures -- 2-point shooting, 3-point shooting, assist rate, turnover rate, overall offensive efficiency -- even Maliek White has been a better player than Duke over the balance of this season. He could also have made a case for more time from the start.

That was a mess of Cooley's own making. If Ashton-Langford had been ineffective over the first 10-12 games, the decision to go to Duke -- ideally based on some sort of ability he flashed off the bench, let's say -- would have been indisputable. David Cox wisely avoided such a situation with Christion Thompson, and nobody reasonable could dispute now that Tyrese Martin has taken and earned his spot for years to come. Making such a decision in the preseason wouldn't have been based on anything more than subjectivity.

Part of that goes back to how each player was recruited. Four-star, top-60 talent generally doesn't commit to Providence or URI without a guarantee -- you come here, you start. Period. Duke and AJ Reeves fall into that category, as did Jared Terrell (and, as a transfer, Kuran Iverson). Martin did not. His pitch was almost certainly different -- you come here, you'll have a good chance to play right away and potentially start down the line. That sort of honesty throughout the process is how you can continue to both bring in quality players and be relatively sure they won't leave.

Jimmy Nichols didn't start Providence's game against DePaul. He's shown next to nothing over his last six into Seton Hall -- 10 points combined, 9 rebounds combined. But now, to make a lineup change, you have to go back to an upperclassman who might have been convinced all along he was better than the freshman. Isaiah Jackson started the first three games before Nichols was shoehorned into the lineup -- 13-for-24 shooting, 17 rebounds, 8 assists, 4 turnovers, 8 steals. Did he really deserve to be demoted? And now, if Jackson doesn't play well down the stretch, Cooley has nowhere else to turn. He'll have to go back to the freshman who regressed in January and could have shaky confidence after being benched. That's less effective man management than if Jackson had struggled through 10-12 games and Nichols had proven through his play -- not perception or potential -- to be the better option. It hurts both of them.

In terms of other freshmen around the Atlantic 10, sure, you can cite the stats. But here's where the focus should be -- team success. Last season three of the league's oldest four teams by minutes played -- St. Bonaventure, URI and Davidson -- went to the NCAAs. In 2016-17 Dayton, VCU and URI were three of the league's oldest five teams by minutes played -- all three went to the NCAAs. Four of the current top six oldest teams by minutes played in the league this season -- Saint Louis, George Mason, VCU and Dayton -- are above URI in the standings. None of that is a coincidence. (La Salle is the consistent outlier in this equation because they take transfers who are forced to sit. It's not due to their own recruits.)

All good points Bill. Different philosophies adopted by Cooley and Cox. I did see the comments from Ashton-Langford's father on the PC Board and was quite surprised. Ashton-Langford was likely provided a starting role "guarantee" when he changed his mind on UCONN and he was #38 ESPN - higher than Duke and Reeves. I think he played himself out of the starting lineup because of his poor shooting last season.

It's different Coaching philosophies. Hurley rarely changed the starting lineup while Cooley has been known to change starters more often, even before this season.

Biggest issue I have with this year is that Martin was so clearly above Thompson that it should not have taken so long to make the change. Thompson did not demonstrate the effort to show that he wanted to stay in the starting line up. I watched him get beaten by his man often from the 1st game of the season. This surprised me because I expected better defense from him this season and I expected him to take on a substantial leadership role. Even now I think Thompson is getting too many minutes based on his effort and performance.

I agree with you on the fairness - I can see all of your points. On the other hand, it seems somewhat ironic or hypocritical to have others on the bench who rarely see any playing time. Mike Layssard and Mike Tertsea come to mind. The minutes I saw Layssard play I thought he demonstrated a good shooting tough and a good rebounding capability. I know there is a lot of criticism of both Layssard and Tertsea on this board, but in reality the two guys have gotten almost no minutes. There is almost no way for anyone to have an opinion either way - have to only go by what the Coaches say. But what the Coaches say gives me pause based on what I have seen with Thompson's significant playing time. So interesting how a guy like Thompson gets tons of minutes and finally gets pulled but others get no chance. I hear Silverio is not getting the playing time he should be due to defensive challenges, but I see little difference between Silverio's defense and Thompsons to date.

Again thanks for your perspective.

[rjsuperfly66]

Ability is one thing, but culture is entirely another. Ed Cooley had a major problem on his hands at the mid-year -- Makai Ashton-Langford's father was actively talking transfer. And that came directly as a result of David Duke being given the first chance to start at the point guard from Game 1 as a freshman. By several statistical measures -- 2-point shooting, 3-point shooting, assist rate, turnover rate, overall offensive efficiency -- even Maliek White has been a better player than Duke over the balance of this season. He could also have made a case for more time from the start.

That was a mess of Cooley's own making. If Ashton-Langford had been ineffective over the first 10-12 games, the decision to go to Duke -- ideally based on some sort of ability he flashed off the bench, let's say -- would have been indisputable. David Cox wisely avoided such a situation with Christion Thompson, and nobody reasonable could dispute now that Tyrese Martin has taken and earned his spot for years to come. Making such a decision in the preseason wouldn't have been based on anything more than subjectivity.

With all due respect Bill, I think that is partially true. You may know more than me, but the comment's from Langford's father were made on November 14th, one day after a 70-61 Providence win over Holy Cross. Langford saw his minutes diminish for a third consecutive game (12-9-6), and in that game, I'm not even sure he saw any minutes in the second half. However, anyone who watched Langford play up until the time of the Reeves injury against UMASS wouldn't even have been sure if he was a low-major player, forget a starting PG for a Big East program. You are talking about someone who had 5 assists to 13 turnovers, shot 5-20 (25%), and 0-7 from 3. Since then he's had 46 assists to 19 turnovers, shot 24-61 (39%), and 11-26 from 3 (42%), even despite going ice cold in the last six games with shooting splits of 20%/7%. Despite the dip, he's still had a 31A/12T, so he's at least run a solid point.

Perhaps without being handed the minutes, MAL learned the type of effort & focus he needed in both practice and on game day. Don't get me wrong, I definitely feel David Duke has been handed a huge leash, but even then, he has seen a significant role reduction over the last several games. So while your situation might have made more sense with a solidified veteran, I just don't believe MAL had done nearly enough to be handed a starting spot to start the season, and certainly did nothing to earn minutes until mid-December. Had he started the season in such a manner, perhaps it wouldn't even had been an argument. I'd like to believe at the end of the day, Cooley plays his guys the minutes necessary to win the game.

[eli#10]

Not sure why but I just checked out the UMass box score from their game on Wednesday vs LaSalle. Carl Pierre who burned us from the 3 point line was 1 for 12 for the game and 0 for 7 on 3s. No question we did not play well that afternoon but how is that for bad luck. As they say "timing is everything".

[rambone 78]

UMass does not miss when we play them at their place. It's a thing.

[phipsiGD'11]

Let's hope they miss when they come to the RC for senior night