Patience with Freshmen

[ramster]

Umm, seems to me there is a YOOOG Gap in this thread - specifically how great a move Coach Cox made to start Tyrese instead of CT. And how fantastic Ty and Dana have been. Now we just need to get Jermaine going and our Freshmen will look very good indeed.

Pete,
I’ll agree to call it a great move by Cox to move Martin to a starting role for Thompson, but it was later than I would have liked.

I’d have had Martin for Thompson from Game 1 in November but I can see Cox’ concept of giving Thompson a fair shot.
Just gave Thompson too long of a shot
Thompson, from my seat at the games, just did not play the level of defense nor did he rebound to the level that Mathews, Terrell and Robinson did last season. He was slower than I expected and did not play the aggressive defense that I’d become used to. Martin is a future All A10 player. Too good not to be in the starting line up, and needs the playing time to be able to maximize his level of contribution in the all important A10 tournament. Glad the move was made.

[bigappleram]

26 points and 18 rebounds by the 3 Frosh tonight.
That was the difference maker. They showed toughness and focus in not wilting in such a big game. Bodes well for the future and beyond.

[ramster]

Harris and Martin both had 7 rebounds each which tied for game high. Freshmen stepping up, continually improving, playing tough defense and not getting rattled.

[bigappleram]

Martin’s athleticism allows him to rebound and finish at the rim at a high major level already. When his shooting gets more consistent look out. In the open court he is smooth.

[luke]

Agree BAR, Martin is so smooth on the court and driving to the hoop, and he is always around the rim to clean up misses.
His confidence is growing by the game.

[luke]

Ramster, also all three hit big shots during the game to keep the team going . They were a major factor in the win along with Fatts
Dowtin and Langevine's contributions. Great and convincing win.

[ramster]

In A10 through 6 games now for Tyrese Martin is Ranked:

9th in 3FG accuracy with 38.9%
11th in FG accuracy with 52.9%
13th in rebounding with 6.5 rpg
30th in scoring with 11.8 ppg

So glad he is now in the starting line up for past 3 games - and all of them wins
What a bright spot along with Harris and Tate

[PeteRI]

So happy with the progress these 3 are showing. Dana has a knack for hitting big shots and grabbing key rebounds. Jermaine is mobile and active on D, and has a really nice shot for a big. And Tyrese routinely makes high-level plays like reverse layups, behind-the-back passes and aggressive putback baskets. Their production to date has been much more than I expected, and it's only going to get better!

[Rhodymob05]

Martin shows an enormous amount of potential, starting to look like the next EC Matthews. Harris is making progress and the more touches he gets the more potential we will see. Tate is a manchild with some great moves to and around the basket. The patience is paying off.

[bigappleram]

Not sure of the EC comparison, Martin’s game and skill set is quite different.

[the_one_mike]

Martin is pretty much already there outside of a few key areas. He’s high I.Q. and you can see him directing traffic off ball quite frequently.

Defensively, he’s very strong on ball. Needs to improve his ability to interrupt the ballhandler up top but uses great athleticism protecting the rim on the drive. Also very strong weak side, has a nose for the ball and is subsequently a natural defensive rebounder and shot blocker. Also plays passing lanes better than everyone on the team sans Fatts. Confidence and discipline will improve upon all of this.

Offensively, he has all the skills TODAY to be a 12+ppg player for the rest of his Rhody career. Great shooter when the offense is in flow, solid cutter and has a knack for getting to the rim. Ball handling is his main area for improvement. Often dribbles with his head down, always picks up the dribble when double teamed, and his first step can sometimes outpace his first dribble. He also has a tendency to telegraph passes. Combined, that’s a recipe for a lot of turnovers - that has shown at times. And free throws. Fucking free throws, man.

Basically, he has IT. Someone needs to help him wrangle in some small details and help him take the game as it comes and he will be hard to stop. He is polished in ways you cannot necessarily polish a player, and his main areas of improvement are some of the easiest skills to work on. Bright, bright future for him and he has rightfully taken a starting role as a result.

[Billyboy78]

Martin is a quick leaper, a very underrated skill.

[hrstrat57]

And Martin has a nose for the ball - great anticipation

Hard to teach skills as well.

[bigappleram]

Still early but Tyrese is shooting 53% from the field, 39% from 3 and 82% from the FT line in A10 play (6 games). Averaging 12ppg and 6rpg. Not sure if he can sustain that but if so that would be a remarkable freshmen season.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Martin is pretty much already there outside of a few key areas. He’s high I.Q. and you can see him directing traffic off ball quite frequently.

Defensively, he’s very strong on ball. Needs to improve his ability to interrupt the ballhandler up top but uses great athleticism protecting the rim on the drive. Also very strong weak side, has a nose for the ball and is subsequently a natural defensive rebounder and shot blocker. Also plays passing lanes better than everyone on the team sans Fatts. Confidence and discipline will improve upon all of this.

Offensively, he has all the skills TODAY to be a 12+ppg player for the rest of his Rhody career. Great shooter when the offense is in flow, solid cutter and has a knack for getting to the rim. Ball handling is his main area for improvement. Often dribbles with his head down, always picks up the dribble when double teamed, and his first step can sometimes outpace his first dribble. He also has a tendency to telegraph passes. Combined, that’s a recipe for a lot of turnovers - that has shown at times. And free throws. Fucking free throws, man.

Basically, he has IT. Someone needs to help him wrangle in some small details and help him take the game as it comes and he will be hard to stop. He is polished in ways you cannot necessarily polish a player, and his main areas of improvement are some of the easiest skills to work on. Bright, bright future for him and he has rightfully taken a starting role as a result.

If Martin is a 12ppg player next year, I think we, and he, will be disappointed.

[rambone 78]

I think he has the potential to lead the team in scoring next season. I could see 15-17 average, with several 20+ point games.

Between him, Tate, and JH, maybe close to 40 PPG between them. Plus 16-18 boards per game.

If this happens, I think we might be pretty good.

[PeteRI]

I think he has the potential to lead the team in scoring next season. I could see 15-17 average, with several 20+ point games.

Between him, Tate, and JH, maybe close to 40 PPG between them. Plus 16-18 boards per game.

If this happens, I think we might be pretty good.

Can't wait!

[Rhody83]

I think he has the potential to lead the team in scoring next season. I could see 15-17 average, with several 20+ point games.

Between him, Tate, and JH, maybe close to 40 PPG between them. Plus 16-18 boards per game.

If this happens, I think we might be pretty good.

This doesn’t make sense to me. Rhody currently has 2 Juniors & a Soph scoring 45.6 ppg (Jeff 16.6, Cyril 13.8 & Fatts 15.2) on a team that is avg 71 ppg. And you are predicting 3 soph next year will score 40 ppg. Are you predicting that Jeff, Cyril & Fatts will score less next year? By how much? What do you think the team will avg next year? How about other players like Walker, Thompson, Omar, Hammond? I understand the excitement over the recent performance of the Fr. Maybe we should learn from our overprojection to start this year and tone it down a little. Let them develop and see how it plays out.

[Ramulous]

I think our core is fairly quick and athletic.....I hope all the newcomers fit that bill......no plodders on the roster......I can see the team going deeper than this year with an emphasis on run and gun and pressure defense....with confidence on every rotation player to fit that system.....and the spread of scoring and rebounding numbers among the youngsters being close to evenly spread...

[rambone 78]

I think he has the potential to lead the team in scoring next season. I could see 15-17 average, with several 20+ point games.

Between him, Tate, and JH, maybe close to 40 PPG between them. Plus 16-18 boards per game.

If this happens, I think we might be pretty good.

This doesn’t make sense to me. Rhody currently has 2 Juniors & a Soph scoring 45.6 ppg (Jeff 16.6, Cyril 13.8 & Fatts 15.2) on a team that is avg 71 ppg. And you are predicting 3 soph next year will score 40 ppg. Are you predicting that Jeff, Cyril & Fatts will score less next year? By how much? What do you think the team will avg next year? How about other players like Walker, Thompson, Omar, Hammond? I understand the excitement over the recent performance of the Fr. Maybe we should learn from our overprojection to start this year and tone it down a little. Let them develop and see how it plays out.

83, I thought about that after I posted those numbers....yeah if they score 35-40 per game that means that there's only about 35-40 for the rest of the team....I do think the team scoring average will rise into the upper 70's from this year's low 70's though. Anyway the points could be pretty evenly spread between the top 6 players, with a few left over for the others.

[the_one_mike]

If Martin is a 12ppg player next year, I think we, and he, will be disappointed.

Totally agree. I see that as a floor, ceiling is wherever coaching strategy and game flow takes it.

Also agree with rambone that he could easily take a bull’s share of the scoring next year... Jeff is out of his natural skill set as a scorer. He needs to handle the ball again and reclaim the role of floor general. Fatts belongs at the 2 and Martin at the 3.

The one criticism I have of Cox thus far is taking the ball out of Jeff’s hands. This team can only be better with him directing the offense, but I digress.

Harris looks great to me. Any and all criticism of him, at this stage, appear to be a little bit of premature judgement. Has all the skills, just needs to put on some muscle and find his flow in the offense. Hopefully that key shot against VCU turns into a jump starter.

Tate looks great on offense... but is a defensive liability. Not quick enough to play defense on a college guard and appears to have minimal knowledge of playing defense at the forward. If he can figure out defense at the 4 or even the 5 if we decide to go small... that’s dangerous. Still super high on him but see his defense as the biggest area of growth of all 3 freshmen getting significant minutes.

[reef]

I don't see Martin being more than 14 Ppg next year as our 3 top scorers return and I don't see their averages going down

[the_one_mike]

I don't see Martin being more than 14 Ppg next year as our 3 top scorers return and I don't see their averages going down

Jeff’s average will continue to fall through the day he graduates, IMO. They days of needing him to score 30+ like early this year are gone. It’s possible if the defense is giving it to him but this team plays better when he looks to pass.

The freshmen can take his share of scoring and more. With a more experienced guard protecting the ball, that growth is easily possible. I would like to see him in the neighborhood of 10 assists a game again instead of constant 10-20 points scoring.

One major positive of him assuming the role of scorer early is improving his shot. That was a weak point for him and is no longer... The experience as lead scorer was valuable, but it’s time to move on. Other players have proven their abilities and we need to spread the offensive responsibility.

[Rhody83]

I don't see Martin being more than 14 Ppg next year as our 3 top scorers return and I don't see their averages going down

Jeff’s average will continue to fall through the day he graduates, IMO. They days of needing him to score 30+ like early this year are gone. It’s possible if the defense is giving it to him but this team plays better when he looks to pass.

The freshmen can take his share of scoring and more. With a more experienced guard protecting the ball, that growth is easily possible. I would like to see him in the neighborhood of 10 assists a game again instead of constant 10-20 points scoring.

One major positive of him assuming the role of scorer early is improving his shot. That was a weak point for him and is no longer... The experience as lead scorer was valuable, but it’s time to move on. Other players have proven their abilities and we need to spread the offensive responsibility.

How is his average “continuing” to drop when he is the leading score this year? Jeff is averaging 16.6 ppg. In his last 5 games he is averaging 17.4. I disagree that his average will drop of any signicance next year. It’s easy to make these broadbrushed statements. What do you see Jeff, Fatts and Cyril averaging next year? List a range of the scoring avg’s of the top 6 players next year. If the team totals gets to 80 start again. There is no way this team is averaging 80 points next year.

[Rhody83]

I think he has the potential to lead the team in scoring next season. I could see 15-17 average, with several 20+ point games.

Between him, Tate, and JH, maybe close to 40 PPG between them. Plus 16-18 boards per game.

If this happens, I think we might be pretty good.

This doesn’t make sense to me. Rhody currently has 2 Juniors & a Soph scoring 45.6 ppg (Jeff 16.6, Cyril 13.8 & Fatts 15.2) on a team that is avg 71 ppg. And you are predicting 3 soph next year will score 40 ppg. Are you predicting that Jeff, Cyril & Fatts will score less next year? By how much? What do you think the team will avg next year? How about other players like Walker, Thompson, Omar, Hammond? I understand the excitement over the recent performance of the Fr. Maybe we should learn from our overprojection to start this year and tone it down a little. Let them develop and see how it plays out.

83, I thought about that after I posted those numbers....yeah if they score 35-40 per game that means that there's only about 35-40 for the rest of the team....I do think the team scoring average will rise into the upper 70's from this year's low 70's though. Anyway the points could be pretty evenly spread between the top 6 players, with a few left over for the others.

Averaging high 70’s hasn’t been in the last 5+ years. It’s a tall order. Last year was the highest recently at 76.o ppg. The top six scorers had 64.7 ppg and we know that team was deep. Only two players avg over 10 ppg. You could combine Berry/Cyril with their role sharing to make it three. This team struggles offensively and the players will be the same next year.


Team scoring avg last five years:
18-19 71.1
17-18 76.0
16-17 73.6
15-16 69.4
14-15 67.6

[rhodyblue12]

To some extent this is just math. We all expect Harris' ability to score to grow significantly next year. We expect Martin's role to increase.
We expect A Walker to become a significant contributor as well. For this to happen, their offensive touches have to increase.
The limiting factor is that there are only so many possessions in a game.
Consequently, scoring opportunities for Jeff, Cyril and Fatts will go down - they have to.

One way for Jeff, Fatts and Cyril to not have their average drop too much, of course, is to increase their shooting percentage.
This means taking better shots. That is the win-win scenario.
Having six players that can lead your team in scoring any given night is a good thing - provided that Cox can manage all the egos.

[the_one_mike]

I don't see Martin being more than 14 Ppg next year as our 3 top scorers return and I don't see their averages going down

Jeff’s average will continue to fall through the day he graduates, IMO. They days of needing him to score 30+ like early this year are gone. It’s possible if the defense is giving it to him but this team plays better when he looks to pass.

The freshmen can take his share of scoring and more. With a more experienced guard protecting the ball, that growth is easily possible. I would like to see him in the neighborhood of 10 assists a game again instead of constant 10-20 points scoring.

One major positive of him assuming the role of scorer early is improving his shot. That was a weak point for him and is no longer... The experience as lead scorer was valuable, but it’s time to move on. Other players have proven their abilities and we need to spread the offensive responsibility.

How is his average “continuing” to drop when he is the leading score this year? Jeff is averaging 16.6 ppg. In his last 5 games he is averaging 17.4. I disagree that his average will drop of any signicance next year. It’s easy to make these broadbrushed statements. What do you see Jeff, Fatts and Cyril averaging next year? List a range of the scoring avg’s of the top 6 players next year. If the team totals gets to 80 start again. There is no way this team is averaging 80 points next year.

This logic basically says that because of the current game plan Jeff and Cyril should remain focal points of the offense forever. Neither were recruited as scorers and neither were considered scorers until this season when they were forced to... score. Now we have true scorers emerging, why would you not maximize everyone’s impact and highlight talents?

I also said will continue. As in, like the future, bro. It’s crazy how this board can campaign for change and think things can stay the same!!

Outside of the Richmond and LaSalle game (where he had ONE assist), his scoring has, in fact, been on on a downtrend. And I think that’s the right direction for this team. We have guys that can hit shots but not necessarily create them. Jeff’s ability to break down defenses in the half court does. We need him distributing not shooting. 7-10 assists and 10-15 points per game expand the offense.

Jeff and Cyril can be primary scorers as long as we want... but these talented freshmen will just consider a transfer somewhere that their role is expanded. Just the truth.

I honestly don’t understand how you think his scoring average WON’T go down. We graduate two zero impact seniors and bring in 4 players next year... all expected to contribute in varying ways. Two of them are already on the bench!

[Rhodymob05]

http://rhodycigar.com/2019/02/07/column ... velopment/

Good article on this year's downfalls and player progression.