New A10 - URI Basketball's Conference Future

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

66, I would guess the TV contract DOES get scaled back, or reworked or whatever. I doubt they will pay upwards of $400K per team per year if all 4 teams leave, and they stand pat with 10 teams.

That's unless the A10 makes some moves, and either adds schools or subtracts schools or both, making the conference at least more attractive for the networks.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:I think A10 should be very selective and not rush into anything. It's not bad to play a season with 12 teams or even 10, imagine that, A10 teams. We need to be very careful about locking in new programs. And despite what we have seen with this C7 thing with all of Fox's money, schools don't leave immediately like this. There should be no changes for next season other than the teams we know and expect will leave. Then the following year, perhaps additions will take place with the standard 1-year in advance notice to their current conferences.

Most of the time when there's criticism of commissioners its for not acting quickly and decisively enough. We can say just sit back and see how things play out but meanwhile the CAA could strengthen and become attractive for VCU and Richmond.

RhodyO · Unread post by **RhodyO** » 11 years ago

I cannot believe it has come to a point where we are compared to the CAA. This may be the end to Rhody BBall as we know it

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

I think my article made some mistakes!!
http://www.masslive.com/umassbasketball ... ent_s.html

"$37 million in NCAA money breaks down to $3.7 Million per school over the next six years — or $616,000 per year. Add to that the media rights for the Atlantic 10 — which would come out to $500,000 per year per school."

33 NCAA Tournament units x $245,000 = 8,085,000
exit fees from 6 teams = 8,000,000
TV contract 5,600,000 /10 teams = 560,000/per year

If figured over 6 years, the average team in the A10 should receive $828,000

"Of the 33 NCAA Tournament units currently owned by the Atlantic 10, the teams on this list earned just seven of them"
7 teams is the remaining teams

RamJam · Unread post by **RamJam** » 11 years ago

RhodyO wrote:I cannot believe it has come to a point where we are compared to the CAA. This may be the end to Rhody BBall as we know it

Or the reality.

Perhaps the elevated perception we have of URI basketball is rooted in a deep run in the tourny some 10+ years ago. The program hasnt been strong for years with the last year of Baron being a culmination of errors and this year the end product.

If we are basing our "status" on a distant tournament run to the elite 8, then maybe comparison to the CAA for URI isnt all that far off. George Mason? VCU a few years back?

A lot has been discussed about who will be brought into the A10.

On the other hand, what other conferences are available to URI that would be lateral or slight upgrade? The New Big East? Conference USA? Options are limited, but perhaps a blended A10/Conf USA would be a way to look.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

RamJam wrote:
RhodyO wrote:I cannot believe it has come to a point where we are compared to the CAA. This may be the end to Rhody BBall as we know it

On the other hand, what other conferences are available to URI that would be lateral or slight upgrade? The New Big East? Conference USA? Options are limited, but perhaps a blended A10/Conf USA would be a way to look.

The question is whether or not you want to go to a conference and be the minority.

At least if you "merge" with a basketball-only, you can try to break them apart and get a 50/50 type merge in place where you drop some dead weight and they drop some dead weight.

No football/basketball conference is going to do that. You are going to be 1 of 6 or 1 of 4 in that conference that is a basketball-only. They are going to look for the best interest of football and football only.

The other question is the natural -- Why would those football conferences want to merge? What advantage do they get?

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

I don't think the A10 is going to be in as bad of shape as some may think. The A10 will probably look close to what it looked like when I was at URI.
Here's what the A10 looked like from 2001 - 2005, before a bunch of new teams joined:
Xavier
Dayton
Temple
UMass
Rhode Island
LaSalle
St. Bonaventure
St. Joseph's
George Washington
Duquesne
Fordham

Out of this group Xavier, Dayton and Temple are probably leaving.
We added VCU.

So then you have....
VCU - replaces Xavier...which arguably has a basketball program as strong as Xavier at this point.
(Unkown - TBD) - This is the wild card...who replaces Dayton. In my opinion, we need to find one more quality basketball school or find a way to hang on to Dayton and maybe force the new Big East to add Siena instead.
George Mason - let's assume we can get this team to replace Temple, who "arguably" has been just as good in basketball in recent years in terms of tournament appearances.
UMass - Improving program
Rhode Island - Improved program
LaSalle - Improved program
St. Bonaventure
St. Joseph's
George Washington - Improving program - new coach who took Vermont to NCAA in 2010 and averaged 21 wins a year for the six years he coached there.
Duquesne
Fordham

In the end, the A10 may end up being a solid basketball league despite losing some good programs because of all the other teams that seem to be improving around the same time that some are leaving. I don't think the conference will be all doom and gloom. It wouldn't surprise me if the A10 commissioner had picked out what teams to add already.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I like your ideas, Dude.
Ferry at Duquesne is recruiting some pretty good talent, so I expect them to improve, too.
The outlier is Fordham, which is a hopeless case.
I think UMass thinks they're somehow too good for us, because of their stinky D-1 football
program. Not sure they'd be that welcome in the new American Beauty 12 conference.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

Interesting ...

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Add nothing immediately. No additions for next season.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:Add nothing immediately. No additions for next season.

Am I missing something? Has there been a conference that has had success recently by waiting it out? The only constant is change. Anything the A-10 can do to remain attractive to VCU and Richmond, it should do.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

No but those moves are also more risky.

Only at one point as Davidson stood above the pack and that was on the back of a special player.

The rest of the time they have been the best team in a terrible conference. The Southern Conference ranks 27th out of 32 this year, 23 out of 32 last year, etc.

Charleston is also in that conference. They haven't seen an NCAA Tourney since 1999, and if they see it this year, it means Davidson won't.

George Mason is the best of the bunch, but has gotten significantly worse since Larranaga left for Miami. They have gone from 6 losses to 8 losses to 13 losses (and season still going).

And Siena is having their worst season in quite some time (7-23) and has had 3 straight losing seasons since McCaffrey left.

I agree, shouldn't just rush in to "get teams," because let's be honest, most of those teams are bigger in name than they have been in execution. How much better do those moves really make the A-10? and would you be better off with 2 of them?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Never quite got all the excitement about adding Davidson or Cof C.
I'd still like Mason, because of their facilities and location.
Nothing other than Detroit and Cleveland State does much for me.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

I definitely feel like Mason is a must and a no-brainer for me given the current situation. Outside of that, nothing really excites me.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I'm with Rod

Captainron@ · Unread post by **Captainron@** » 11 years ago

What about UNC Willmington? Not in a good loop right now, but made the NCAAs as recent as 2008. Wife's brother ( from North Providence) is a dean there and up talks the program a lot. Plus a great place for a road trip

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 11 years ago

I always enjoyed my time in Wilmington. Great school/city.

I am a little fearful of the A10 moving WAY south..... Worth noting that the southern move has caused problems for our football program. I know basketball is the flagship and our sole interest

I like our history-- regardless of what anyone says. I grew up in the 90s and a lot of my peers remember the glory days as children. Which is nice.

I understand we are all speculating, but what was wrong with Iona? I know we have some NY schools that rarely compete -- unless of course Andrew Nicholson or Jim Barron is @ Bonaventure.

Iona....Western Kentucky.... Murray St..... Idk we really just need a program that is competitive in their approach and mindset.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Iona plays is a 1950's type dump with ugly colors. Ditto, Manhattan.
UCNC Wilmington has a nice 6,100 seat arena. Problem is, they're
as bad as we are, with a 20 loss season.
UNCC was pretty far South, too.
Can't see what Kentucky schools have in common with the A-10 core.
I'd like to know what, if anything, the A-10 moguls are doing, besides hiding under their desks in
Norfolk, VA, where there is no A-10 school.

Captainron@ · Unread post by **Captainron@** » 11 years ago

Rod, UNCW might be down, but they don't tolerate it. They've canned a couple of coaches and ate the money. They are committed, just hasn't worked out in a few

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I'm in agreement with those who say the A10 has to be careful about adding too many southern teams. That's what the CAA is. George Mason yes, that would help keep VCU and Richmond.

Siena is my best NE candidate. They have the facilities, and if invited they would upgrade their program to be competitive in our league.

Getting more Midwestern schools may depend on whether we can keep Dayton and StLouis from leaving. Unless the TV money goes up substantially, they're gone imo.

My guess is, the A10 is going to end up at either 12 or 16 teams. That's adding either 2 to a 10 team league without Dayton and StLouis, or adding 4 to a 12 team league if they stay.

That first option won't help the TV contract. The second would.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 11 years ago

Cleveland is not that Far East - there is a track record of the horizon being an A10 feeder. If it goes mason and Cleveland state I am happy

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I would take Cleveland State over Detroit in a heartbeat, if they were to take just one of those.

Detroit has facilities, but their ave. attendance last year was 2200 in a 10,000 seat arena? Pathetic.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

There just isn't that many good programs left in the northeast, the A-10 has to spread somewhere. Since all of the mid-west teams are planning to leave and the best program left is in the south, adding some other southern programs makes sense.

To me the worst case scenario is VCU and Richmond leave, then we're left with us, Fordham, Bonnies, Duquense, LaSalle, maybe UMass, GW, and St. Joe's. Even with a Cleveland State, that's a one bid league.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 11 years ago

I don't see VCU and Richmond leaving - the only league better than ours without football is the C7 and I don't think they are getting the invite. A10 can build itself into a perreniel 2 to 4 bid league with the teams left, lets focus on getting that done.

I am rooting hard for VCU this year (and the other A10 teams who want to do well in the tourney and leave the league some more cash that's gravy

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

rhodylaw wrote:I don't see VCU and Richmond leaving - the only league better than ours without football is the C7 and I don't think they are getting the invite. A10 can build itself into a perreniel 2 to 4 bid league with the teams left, lets focus on getting that done.

I am rooting hard for VCU this year (and the other A10 teams who want to do well in the tourney and leave the league some more cash that's gravy

As an A10 fan, you might see that potential, but if you were VCU, where would you see 2 to 4 bids? URI, UMass, LaSalle, Fordham, St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, and GW have a total 2 NCAA's over the last 5 years, by my count. I don't think VCU would leave right away either but assuming that Dayton and St. Louis will be the last two teams to ever leave the A-10 seems risky to me.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Using your logic, why wouldn't VCU just think,
"Hey, we're an NCAA lock every year, with these bozos"?

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Using your logic, why wouldn't VCU just think,
"Hey, we're an NCAA lock every year, with these bozos"?

They left the CAA to get away from a 1-bid league not to be in another one.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

If Dayton and St. Louis leave, you can't just have Cleveland State in the Midwest.
That's where Detroit comes in.
I don't care about attenedence, ours sucks, too.
They're a program on the rise.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

UNCW is a good call.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

The beauty of expanding to the mid-west is that you one day open up the door to the MVC teams, potentially teams like Witchita St., depending on what the expansion plans are. Detroit and Cleveland St. aren't exactly homerun programs, but they do have potential. It's the other schools they could pave the way for that could be huge additions.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 11 years ago

My thought on the 2 to 4 bids is that a lot of the A10 teams that don't make the tourney each year actually have pretty decent OOC records an probably would make the tourney but for better teams in the conference. Maybe that logic is flawed but we need to see this as an opportunity for UMass, URI etc to establish the new to of the conference.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

I think the idea of adding southern teams is to keep VCU and Richmond from heading elsewhere. I know they don't have many options, but if Dayton and StL leave the A10, is it really any better than the Colonial if Richmond and VCU join? Sadly, the answer to that question is no. At a minimum, the A10 has to pick up George Mason, and personally I think they should grab one more Southern school in addition. Are Cleve St and Detroit really that good? Isn't Detroit the team that the coach's blue chip recruit is playing for? What happens when he leaves? Any way you slice it, the A10 has some serious work to do, and they really should get on with it ASAP.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

St Joes, UMass, GW, Richmond and URI have all been successful and have the capability to do it again; these teams with VCU will be the nucleus of the A10. LaSalle is having a good year...hope they can keep it up. My Ideal teams would be Wichita St, George Mason and Murray St...I am not taking geography into account, just strictly who I would like.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:St Joes, UMass, GW, Richmond and URI have all been successful and have the capability to do it again; these teams with VCU will be the nucleus of the A10. LaSalle is having a good year...hope they can keep it up. My Ideal teams would be Wichita St, George Mason and Murray St...I am not taking geography into account, just strictly who I would like.

Well, if we're not considering geography, I want Gonzaga for the A-10!

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I second that!

Obviously I chose within reason. No cross country trips...

What are people's thoughts on Belmont? Just saw an ESPN clip on mid-majors to fear, and Murray St, Belmont and Davidson are discussed. The MVC might try and snag Murray St or Belmont to replace Creighton.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/art ... more-teams

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:St Joes, UMass, GW, Richmond and URI have all been successful and have the capability to do it again; these teams with VCU will be the nucleus of the A10. LaSalle is having a good year...hope they can keep it up. My Ideal teams would be Wichita St, George Mason and Murray St...I am not taking geography into account, just strictly who I would like.

I agree, and I'd throw in Cleveland State. Those four are my top choices.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

How come X and Butler still haven't announced they're leaving?

Are they still working on the financial details?

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:How come X and Butler still haven't announced they're leaving?

Are they still working on the financial details?

There's no rush since everyone knows anyway. I'd think it would be awkward with the A-10 championships this week.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I'm not sure I understand the interest in Cleveland State. They finished second to last in the Horizon and have only been to the tourney twice...2009 and 1986. What makes them desirable for the A10?

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

I would assume the announcements of who is leaving and who may be joining the A10 may come after the A10 tournament This way it won't take away from focus being on the play of the teams and the tournament as a whole (kind of like what the MLB likes to happen during the postseason and World Series...limited announcements and sideshows). This is my guess.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

CSU is a large, public university, in a large city with no other collegiate competitor, and large home arena (13,000). BB program has good potential. Also, likely to be interested in moving from the Horizon, since that league has less national exposure than the A-10.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

Celtics drafted someone from Cleveland State, but I can't remember who it was. Anyone know?

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

Rhody74 wrote:Celtics drafted someone from Cleveland State, but I can't remember who it was. Anyone know?

Darren Tillis - 1982 first round

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

If you assume the A-10 office is aggressively following this situation, then you have to believe they have a list of schools they would like to have in the league depending on the number of A-10 schools departing and the timing. That list in my opinion should include six schools in a priority order, all of whom should have been contacted and have expressed an interest in joining the conference.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

With the teams leaving, what TV markets would be a good fit for the A-10 that we do not have now??....

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Regarding CSU, I don't think the A10 can afford too many teams with "potential" to try and replace the teams we are losing. Maybe one, but the rest need to be as established as possible.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 11 years ago

Whoever signed the A10 media deal should be fired. Being one of the top conferences and watching away games via shitty streaming is a joke. This league was really strong when that contract was signed. To accept the money offered is ridiculous as we now know. As far as new teams, it would be wise to look inside first and set some serious standards(attendance,budget,facilities,scheduling) and hold members accountable. We all know who needs to step up so set the bar and if they don't comply, see ya. Then we can look at new members.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

A10 Media deal that was announced earlier this season goes into effect NEXT year, which will dramatically change the availability of A10 games on the national TV networks ESPN, NBC Sports, and CBS Sports.

gorhody · Unread post by **gorhody** » 11 years ago

ramster wrote:
Rhody74 wrote:Celtics drafted someone from Cleveland State, but I can't remember who it was. Anyone know?
Darren Tillis - 1982 first round

Norris Cole, current Miami Heat PG, was also was a first round pick I believe.

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