New A10 - URI Basketball's Conference Future

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

So...now that it appears the Catholic 7 picture has become a little clearer, what does this mean for the A10?
I would think the A10 would add someone like George Mason and maybe one other (Akron??).
Let the debate begin!
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ng-sources

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... n/1955419/

article lists likely candidates for the A10 - just out

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

I wonder what EC Matthews is thinking right now. He could have played in the BIG10, the Big East or pretty much any conference he wanted. He thought he was going to play in a very strong conference as it was. This obviously cannot be as an attractive conference for top 150 players going forward. Dan has his work cut out for him on the recruiting trail.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Akron is part of the MAC and committed to its football program so I don't think they fit. I hope the A-10 leaders are thinking outside the box in this expansion mode. One key question is whether the Creighton move will cause others MVC members to consider moving. This would be great because the MVC has many strong members with large arenas and solid fan bases, the very things that La Salle and Fordham lack. And is also somewhat true of St. Bona and Duquesne. However, I'm not optimistic that other MVC members would move.

The Horizon League offers two potential candidates - Cleveland State and Detroit. These two schools plus George Mason would bring the conference to 13 members. If 14 is desired, another add could be James Madison. Other candidates would be Murray State, Davidson. The screening of new additions should be based on these factors: arena size, fan base, market size, and some BB tradition. I don't think geography in a very restricted sense should dictate the make-up of the new conference. That attitude hampers out of the box thinking.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 11 years ago

EC's thinking I want to play point guard, and the staff at URI said I would do that there.

Certain conferences are attractive, no doubt, but a player can make it from almost anywhere.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Hurley will begin winning with what he's got already.
Winning players beget winning players.
Butler did it in the Horizon League, VCU in the CAA, and Gonzaga in the Mountain West.
Think those guys who came there care about what conference they play in
or playing on a winner, for a great coach.
THINK BIG! WE DO!

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 11 years ago

I like this thread!

Let's keep it restricted to potential new A10 members!

Davidson, Murray State, and I like Obadiah's thinking about MVC teams. That would be excellent.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

ace wrote:EC's thinking I want to play point guard, and the staff at URI said I would do that there.

Certain conferences are attractive, no doubt, but a player can make it from almost anywhere.

Good point Ace. I'm not part of "The Sky is Falling" crowd. I'll admit I'm slightly disappointed about what seemed like possibly the greatest era in URI basketball coming together for the next few years. The realignment seems like at least a slight step back, a slowing of momentum, so to speak, for the program. But, as long as the Hurleys are still here, I'm convinced that the next few years will still be the best we've had here.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Look at it this way. It will be a lot easier to get an NCAA bid with Xavier, Temple
and Butler gone.
Hurley is no fool. If he thinks he can make the dance more times with the new alignment,
and be a big fish in a small pond, he'll embrace it.
All this baloney I'm reading on this site. Oh, whoa is us! Please!

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Frankly the Murray State idea came from Chris DiSano in a URI post games show.

Again I hope the A-10 comes up with some expansive thinking. How about the A-10 meeting with the Patriot and MAAC leagues and persuade some A-10 schools to join those conferences - I would keep Duquesne. Then have a joint meeting among the remaining A-10 schools, the Horizon, MVC conferences to cobble out two new conferences from the schools in the three conferences and some strays (mostly from the CAA and Southern leagues). Two leagues of 12-14 schools with East/West or South/North divisions would ease any travel concerns. Each league could be formed with a balance of private (Catholic or otherwise) schools and public institutions.

Just some thoughts. Others may have some better ones. This can get exciting.

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 11 years ago

George Mason and Davidson must be top priorities. The new A10 needs mid-majors with name recognition.

Although the path to the NCAA tournament just blew wide open in favor of URI it is important to keep the legitimacy of the conference and not allow other mid major conferences pass us by.

Plenty of options to fill the league, lets hope the folks running the A10 are proactive and act with a sense of urgency. The A10 is one of the more prominent mid major conferences and they must do everything in there power to remain this way.

Maybe I am a prisoner of the moment but put me down in the category of 'the sky is falling'. This is a critical time for the A10 and they MUST act swiftly as well as ensure they attract the right schools.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

What I'm curious to see is if adding teams like George Mason and one other strong team will cause Dayton and St. Louis change their mind and decide to stay after next year.
In an effort for me to stay on topic I'd like to see George Mason and maybe a Davidson join the A10.

RhodeRule · Unread post by **RhodeRule** » 11 years ago

Post deleted....

This thread will remain clear of any talk of the other new basketball conference or its confirmed members (Xavier/Butler are considered "confirmed" at this point). Discussion here is focused on the make-up of the A10 (or whatever conference URI is a member) going forward, NOT the relative merits of the new conference to be called the Big East.

This will be strictly enforced.

Thanks,
ATP

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Here are some data points for reference:

Possible Additions to A-10

Code: Select all

School                 Arena/Capacity	      2012 Total Attendance	 2012 Average Attendance
George Mason	    Patriot Center/9,523	           82,579	                5,161
James Madison	   Convocation Center/7,156	       48,322	                3,452
Fairfield	       WebsterBank Arena/9,500	        35,828	                2,239
Siena	           Times Union Center/8,065	       91.128	                6,509
Davidson	        Belk Arena/6,000	               59,353	                3,957
Charleston	      TD Arena/5,000	                 60,493	                4,321
Detroit	         Calihan Hall/8,295	             38,622	                2,272
Cleveland State	 Wolstein Center/13,160	         45,640	                3,260

Long shots from the MVC

Code: Select all

School              Arena/Capacity	          2012 Total Attendance	2012 Average Attendance
Bradley	          Carver Arena/11,060	           122,245	                 7,640
Southern Illinois   SIU Arena/10,014	               46,186	                 3,299
Wichita State	    Kock Arena/10,478	             166,261	                10,391
Missouri State	   JQH Arena/11,000	              105,750	                 7,050
Indiana State	    Hulman Center/10,200	           81,492	                 5,433

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Here is an amended summary of all A-10 schools by category:

Schools Potentially Leaving A-10 for C7

Code: Select all

School           Arena/Capacity	      2012 Total Attendance	  2012 Average Attendance
Dayton	      UD Arena/13,266	             218,776	                 12,124
Xavier	      Cintas Center/10,250	        162,474	                 10,155
Saint Louis    Chaifetz Arena/10,600	       124,106	                  7,757
Richmond	    Robins Center/9,493   	       84,903	                  5,660
Butler	      Hinkle Fieldhouse/10,000	    125,276	                  6,599

Schools Definitely Leaving A-10

Code: Select all

School           Arena/Capacity	         2012 Total Attendance	2012 Average Attendance
Temple	     Liacouras Center/10,206	         106,143	               8,165
Charlotte	  Halton Arena/9,105                  84,011	               6,011

The remaining A-10 schools:

Code: Select all

School               Arena/Capacity	     2012 Total Attendance	2012 Average Attendance
Fordham	         Rose Hill Gym/ 3,200	        35,140	                2,343
Duquesne           Palumbo Center/4,406           48,064	                3,204
GW	              Smith Center/4,438	          35,847	                2,561
La Salle	        Gola Arena/4,000	            37,548	                2,209
St. Bonaventure	 Reilly Center/5,780	         51,035	                3,926
St. Joseph’s	    Hagan Arena/4,200	           71,357	                4,197
UMass              Mullins Center/9,456           68,471                   4,279
VCU	             Siegel Center/7,555	        106,707	                7,622
URI*	            Ryan Center/7,657	           57,428	                3,829

URI  (2003-04)**		                            93,327	                5,832
URI  (2007-08)***		                           88,731	                5,915

*’11-‘12 attendance was the lowest in Ryan Center history.
** Highest total attendance year.
*** Highest average attendance year.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Good post, Obie.
Personally, I'm not cheering for any teams that are leaving. I don't care about the tournament money this year. Unfortunately, that really cuts the field down this year.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

If we can get a couple decent schools to replace Butler and X it wont be all too bad

We need to boot Fordham though

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

Obadiah,
Siena plays their games at the Times Union Center. The Capacity is actually 15,229 (Capacity for each game changes based on game size and what sections of the arena are curtained off).
What is URI's average attendance for this season?
Looks like VCU outsells the size of their areana - they are well above all of the remaining A10 Teams in ave attendance.
Amazing that Creighton averages close to 17k per game

http://www.vcuathletics.com/facilities/sc

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

I'd think that UMass would be the next one out the door due to the fact that they have a division 1-A football program and the A-10 will be weakening.

With the quality of schools left in the Atlantic 10 I wouldn't be surprised to see the league just fade away. URI, St. Joe's, Richmond, VCU and GW would end up in the Colonial, Fordham would end up in the Patriot League and La Salle, Duquesne and St. Bonaventure would end up in the MAAC. The new Colonial would end up being one of the 2 or 3 best mid-major conferences in the country.

As far as UMass, I'd think that their most likely destination would be with UConn, Cincinnati and Temple in whatever that new conference calls itself.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Those attendance figures for the A10 are putrid, except for VCU.

The bottom of the league averages less than 3,000 per game. Not surprising though.

Many of those addition possibilities are better, some much better.

The A10 has GOT to jettison some of those teams, somehow.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

This is what Rod doesn't seem to realize. What's left of the A10 isn't much.

Yes the conference has taken hits before, lost some good programs. But, this time it's almost ALL the good programs are leaving at the SAME time, and taking away the best facilities and attendance numbers with them, along with their marquee value and NCAA invites.

I just wonder if the A10 will be able to attract enough good programs by themselves, to stay the 2nd best mid major conference behind the BE. A merger might be in order, I just don't know.

There's got to be a lot of shuffling to take place. As it stands right now, there's simply NO WAY that TV will keep that contract for what's left. If the A10 doesn't dump the weak, they will become like I said before, not much better than the NEC or MAAC, and maybe not as good as the CAA.

No team is going to want to come to the A10, if the money isn't any better than what they are currently getting. The MVC? No chance. Those teams draw. Most of the A10, or what's left, doesn't.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

One more thing. Why oh why would Dayton and StLouis want to stay in the A10?

They are being offered over $3 million a year for TV rights. They have good facilities and good fan bases, especially Dayton. What could the A10 possibly offer to keep them?

They are also the only 2 Midwest teams left in the A10. If I were them, I couldn't get out fast enough.

Think URI wouldn't go, if they were offered?

That TV money would help keep the Hurleys here. Would help the football program also.

Total no brainer.

neil · Unread post by **neil** » 11 years ago

I'll try a partly sunny response. We certainly took a big hit. The schools that left have established a winning tradition (yes, and some fit the c-7 description). What motivates ram fans to come to the Ryan. Is it the opposing a-10 team? Except possibly for Temple and the rivalry with Umass, most don't care. Does the average fan care if it's GW or George Mason. I don't think so. They come if you win. They come NOT to see the other team but their team. They come when you've established a winning tradition. The coach is starting that tradition. Next year, hopefully, we will play meaningful games and the fans will respond regardless of the opponent. Okay, our status with other conferences will drop. -that's probably a given. We are not as lucky as our friendly neighbor to the North who had a major conference to hold on to despite poor records. We will survive. Keep the faith! Go Rhody!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I'll partly agree with you Neil, that's all well and good, but it would sure be nice to have that extra 3 million lying around, to help pay for everything. It just got tougher for URI to pay the next coach that comes along. That money would also help bring in the better teams here to play us, which would help the bottom line even more. Even if we're winning, I doubt we're going to fill the Ryan to watch us play Fordham.

We've been talking about the A10 doing something behind the scenes, to add or subtract some programs to re-strengthen the league.

Maybe it's time for the better programs remaining in the A10, to get together like the C7 did, and discuss their options. Meaning VCU, Richmond, Rhody, and a few others. If that means breaking away, then so be it.

Might all depend on what the A10 is doing about this.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

If I'm on the fence about going to a URI game, the opponent certainly is important to me. If it's Duquesne, I'm not going, if it's Xaver/Dayton/SLU/VCU/Butler, I can't wait to get over to the Ryan Center.

On another note, I feel bad fro Uconn, they got shafted hard in this re-alignment deal.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Look at it this way. It will be a lot easier to get an NCAA bid with Xavier, Temple
and Butler gone.
Hurley is no fool. If he thinks he can make the dance more times with the new alignment,
and be a big fish in a small pond, he'll embrace it.
All this baloney I'm reading on this site. Oh, whoa is us! Please!

Rod-

You are playing the role of Kevin Bacon in Animal House. All is well!

I said last night that the most likely outcome is the A10 lands on its feet with a conference on par with some they have thrived in in the past. But, please don't spin this as positive. It absolutely does not make it easier to get an NCAA bid. It means more chances for bad losses and less chances for good wins. It means less money to keep a guy like Hurley. It will definitely will be harder to get blue chips guys. Good staffs can overcome this. You made some good analogies. Butler, GMU, etc. But, not positive. Not neutral. This is flat out bad news.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

URIGONZO wrote:On another note, I feel bad fro Uconn, they got shafted hard in this re-alignment deal.

Really? I must be a cold-hearted person.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Please, everyone, keep on the topic of "New A10" as far as the future composition of URI's basketball conference.

This thread is NOT the place for debate on the merits of the newly formed basketball conference which plans to take Xavier and Butler next season.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

Ob, is Richmond going to anothe conference? I didn't see their attendance #'s in your above breakout.

Captainron@ · Unread post by **Captainron@** » 11 years ago

URIGONZO wrote:

On another note, I feel bad fro Uconn, they got shafted hard in this re-alignment deal.

I don't. They did this to themselves. They crucified BC for leaving, burning a major bridge and then tried to do the exact same thing several times but no one was interested. Most of their wounds are self-inflicted.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

A Xavier-, Temple- and Butler-less A10 can still be better than a one or two bid league. Within the league you have a number of programs that have been very good at various times throughout their histories. Expecting that any given two are good in any one year is the bare minimum, in my view. The league should still strive to get 3 or 4 in each year, even if it is likely that some years they may fall short. If two of the leagues 4 or 5 bids were reserved for Temple and Xavier anyways, how has the math for Rhody changed dramatically?

In the long term, the goal should be to become a better league than the one Xavier is absconding to. That isn't far fetched. Xavier and Butler are the two best programs in that league today, with only Georgetown really being in the same class. The rest of the league is no better than the A10. The difference is money. Over time that will level off. Lord knows, a Xavier-led league didn't make us rich. A Xavier- and Temple-less league leaves a vacuum at the top and a prime opportunity for Rhody to make a run at being a leader in the conference. I embrace this situation as an opportunity, as I've said before.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

"Of the 33 NCAA Tournament units currently owned by the Atlantic 10, the teams on this list earned just seven of them.

The 33 units, which carry a value of over $37 Million paid out over the next six years, would stay with the Atlantic 10, but looking at future earning power, only VCU can be seen as a legitimate breadwinner — the Rams have earned 10 units in the past six years, but those belong to the Colonial Athletic Association.

If the Atlantic 10 looked to expand to replace what it loses, the pickings are very slim, with the best option probably being to look to the CAA again — perhaps at non-football schools like George Mason or Drexel."

http://www.masslive.com/umassbasketball ... ent_s.html

Rambone65 · Unread post by **Rambone65** » 11 years ago

I don't think this is going to strop with X and Butler. Tehre have been conflicting reports, with some saying Dayton and SLU will follow a year later, in '14. We are witnessing the slow dissolution of the A10, just as it was about to pick up steam.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Yep, Dayton, SLU leaving in two seasons is going to hurt, so what can the A10 (or it's more competitive members) do?

Thorr and Dr. Dooley must have a headache managing all the possible scenarios.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:Yep, Dayton, SLU leaving in two seasons is going to hurt, so what can the A10 (or it's more competitive members) do?

Thorr and Dr. Dooley must have a headache managing all the possible scenarios.

I know we as fans have been crushing the data and numbers for months, but all of our best and worst formats have been nothing more than fantasy elements.

Can you imagine actually having to figure this stuff out because your job depends on it? Oh vey talk about stressful.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Thank you TP and Neil for brining some sanity to the little girl hysteria
some are bringing to this board.
Sickening! My granddaughters have more composure than the Sky Is Falling crew.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

George Mason is a no-brainer. I'd like to see another Northeast school to replace UMass if it leaves. Unfortunately, there's no candidate that could develop into the rivalry that UMass provided. Too bad Boston is such a lousy college sports town, or else BU or Northeastern might be possibilities.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

I'm not very excited about being "the best of the rest."
As for feeling sorry for UCONN, are you kidding?

Andrew · Unread post by **Andrew** » 11 years ago

How big of a factor is geography and travel costs in working out deals like this?

Essam · Unread post by **Essam** » 11 years ago

It is time for the A10 to strike back. Much like the AFL-NFL wars a few years back. Get television involved like NBC and CBS to challenge FOX and ESPN for dominence in college basketball. build up the bottom feeders of the A10 or get rid of them .

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

The problem with George Mason in my view is that we would have four schools in the Richmond-DC corridor and another not that far away in Philly. That would put half the league in a fairly small footprint and make those outside that area true outliers.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

No to Drexel - we already have two schools in Philly that play in small gyms. No need for more.

neil · Unread post by **neil** » 11 years ago

The new A-10 will have representation in western ny, and western pa - two in new england, three plus george mason as rf stated around DC. Do we think about Iona, (I know they have a small gym) to represent Nyc. One would assume that the powers of the A-10 are already making inquiries.

RamJam · Unread post by **RamJam** » 11 years ago

College of Charleston and Davidson would be a great fit for the new league. Both have strong athletic programs have strong basketball tradition, good academics, and would help market the A10 to the southern region. Charleston just built a brand new arena and that town and school is basketball crazy. Kinda a shame what Butler did to the A-10, but I dont see many schools in the north you could add. Perhaps if you add COFC, Davidson, George Mason and can pair that with VCU, St Louis and a few other teams, the A-10 could morph into having a north and south division that could help offset some of the travel concerns.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Why is NYC so vital? NYC doesn't care about St. John's, let alone Fordham and Iona.
It's like trying to play to the Boston market.
Delaware has a good program, so does Drexel. We have Fordham, Lasalle, and Bonaventure with
not great arenas, so why is that such a criteria? Looking at those attendence numbers, it seems that
very few of these programs come close to filling their places.
800 people on Sebior Night at Loyola MD.
Other than some hotbeds attendence is down everywhere.

RhodyRam2011 · Unread post by **RhodyRam2011** » 11 years ago

Just a general point, but I don't know how people are trying to pretend like this isn't a BAD thing. It is a very unfortunate situation. We will no doubt be regulated to a LOWER conference standing, CAA/MVC level maybe? You can't sit here for months talk the absolute best case scenerio -- saying we got Hurley, wait for the transfers, we're going to the tourney in three years -- and than knock people for saying that this is a HUGE blow for the situation overall because it isn't a positive outlook. It is painful to read all the delusion sometimes. Let's try to stay realistic. You don't lose 6-7 of your programs to other conferences over a three year period and pretend like everything is going to be okay. We are taking a significant step back, and it is going to be difficult to recover from. Realism is sanity.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I think you mean relegated.. Where do you get 6-7 from??? THAT's unrealistic and untrue.
So, what do you and all the other chicken little gang propose?
We fire Hurley and join the Little East in D3?
It is what it is. It's done. The A10 WILL Soldier on and deal with it.
All this whining and crying isn't going to change anything.

neil · Unread post by **neil** » 11 years ago

Ramjam - two excellent choices!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

RhodyRam2011 wrote:Just a general point, but I don't know how people are trying to pretend like this isn't a BAD thing. It is a very unfortunate situation. We will no doubt be regulated to a LOWER conference standing, CAA/MVC level maybe? You can't sit here for months talk the absolute best case scenerio -- saying we got Hurley, wait for the transfers, we're going to the tourney in three years -- and than knock people for saying that this is a HUGE blow for the situation overall because it isn't a positive outlook. It is painful to read all the delusion sometimes. Let's try to stay realistic. You don't lose 6-7 of your programs to other conferences over a three year period and pretend like everything is going to be okay. We are taking a significant step back, and it is going to be difficult to recover from. Realism is sanity.

I don't think anyone is claiming that this is a "best-case" for the league or for URI. As you said, though, lets try to stay realistic. Anyone paying attention to the bigger college athletics landscape saw this coming years ago. We used to talk about it on the freaking Projo board. To me, "staying realistic" doesn't mean curling up in the fetal position and weeping myself to sleep, or lighting my own head on fire like Rambone, who seems to have been reduced to firing off whatever fear-induced thought is presently going through his mind like a tourrette's patient overcome by hysterical paranoia.

Today is the first day of the new college basketball reality for URI. For anyone that didnt see it coming: welcome to the party. My preference is to take stock of the landscape, formulate a plan that will deliver Rhody to its best possible basketball scenario, then go about executing that plan.

It's hard for me to imagine what scenario the people melting down here had envisioned for Rhody - within the constraints of reality - that would have left us considerably better off than we are now. An invitation to a 16 team superconference? Why? So we could be the 10th best program in the league in our up years? Instead, we're in a conference that is respectable but not daunting, and which we have a legitimate opportunity to become the class of as long as we are focused on that objective and not preoccupied with licking our wounds.

This is where we are today. How we respond could very well determine the next 50 years of the program. So lets look forward and not back. Lets figure out how to dominate this new league, not bitch about how mean Dave Gavitt was to us almost 40 years ago.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Once more, thanks TP for a realistic and SANE approach.
Rambone's 3,000 panic posts are a bit much.
Look forward, not back. You can't do anything about what's happened.
You can be proactive and mold the future as best as you can.
This is what the A-10 will do.

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