Problem at Dayton: Dyshawn Pierre Suspended Fall Semester

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 8 years ago

Yikes!

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

Thanks for putting all those tweets together. Really appreciate it.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

DanInAZ · Unread post by **DanInAZ** » 8 years ago

lol, you are quick Ace.... was just about to post that.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Suspended for only one semester? Wow, I think there might be a little discussion about that.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Archie's a good coach, and he's been very successful at Dayton, but he's certainly had a lot of off-court stuff happen in his time there. Pierre is reportedly not even enrolled for the Fall semester.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 8 years ago

Yeah it would not surprise me to see it eventually become more. Seems like the first semester may be a starting point while things play out.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

They lose DP for the season, we should be favored to win the league.

Now THAT's some pressure to live up too!

Dre3000 · Unread post by **Dre3000** » 8 years ago

I would venture to say, with or without Pierre we should now be favored to win the A-10. Pierre, if truly not enrolled, can no longer practice or even workout with the team or coaches. Hard to imagine him coming back and being sharp from day 1. Though they could be dangerous right around the time we meet up.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:They lose DP for the season, we should be favored to win the league.

Now THAT's some pressure to live up too!

I think our coaches and players expected to win the league, anyways, so not sure how much additional pressure they'll feel. While Pierre being out would probably make the road a little easier for us, you hate to see something like this happen. If it is a sex assault, I would hope he would be run from the program. I wouldn't want to root for a guy after he came back from a semester off for a sexual assault if it were my program.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 8 years ago

he is enrolled at Dayton, still on scholarship but will not play first semester

Dre3000 · Unread post by **Dre3000** » 8 years ago

Unless Koch's tweet with a statement from The University of Dayton is false, he is not enrolled at UD for the fall semester. Not even listed on the UD roster on their website anymore.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 8 years ago

you're right my mistake, i misread the article blackburn put up

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

What is it with these guys?
This seems to happen way too often in college athletics. I've heard AAU types think visits
means co-eds are just there to provide sexual incentive to go to whatever school.
Maybe that attitude carries over in some cases, after the kid is enrolled.
I wonder if these people have daughters or sisters?

Keaney.Blue · Unread post by **Keaney.Blue** » 8 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:What is it with these guys?
This seems to happen way too often in college athletics. I've heard AAU types think visits
means co-eds are just there to provide sexual incentive to go to whatever school.
Maybe that attitude carries over in some cases, after the kid is enrolled.
I wonder if these people have daughters or sisters?

I think the situation between college athletes and female students is a lot more muddled than you think. It's hard to make a judgement without hearing both sides of the story. These kids are bona fide celebrities on campus, and it's tough to say no when a drunk girl is hanging onto you at a party. Plus with the advent of Tinder, casual hookups are more common than ever on campuses. If a girl feels disrespected or used after an encounter, how will she react? As for the recruiting visits Rod, you're partially right but I don't think that happens at every school and with every recruit. I can tell you that on my visit Jimmy Baron just drove me around town and we had dinner with the coaching staff at Coast Guard House!

My point is there's no black and white answer in these situations and the bottom line is these players have a far tougher landscape to navigate than in previous years.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

I don't know anything about what's going on with this situation, but in general- the fact that, when hearing about an alleged sexual assault, the default response from so many people, including some who are supposed to be investigating the report, is so often women lie or she was drunk or she later regretted it is so frustrating. Does the occasional woman make a false report? Of course, and that is horrible, but it's far less than people seem to think. You know what happens way more often? Men actually raping someone, and that doesn't even include assaults that go unreported because of the prevailing sentiment.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... l-semester

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

URI96 · Unread post by **URI96** » 8 years ago

If whatever he did rises to the level of being thrown out of school for a semester then why would you ever let him back?

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:I don't know anything about what's going on with this situation, but in general- the fact that, when hearing about an alleged sexual assault, the default response from so many people, including some who are supposed to be investigating the report, is so often women lie or she was drunk or she later regretted it is so frustrating. Does the occasional woman make a false report? Of course, and that is horrible, but it's far less than people seem to think. You know what happens way more often? Men actually raping someone, and that doesn't even include assaults that go unreported because of the prevailing sentiment.

+1

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 8 years ago

Keaney.Blue wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:What is it with these guys?
This seems to happen way too often in college athletics. I've heard AAU types think visits
means co-eds are just there to provide sexual incentive to go to whatever school.
Maybe that attitude carries over in some cases, after the kid is enrolled.
I wonder if these people have daughters or sisters?
I think the situation between college athletes and female students is a lot more muddled than you think. It's hard to make a judgement without hearing both sides of the story. These kids are bona fide celebrities on campus, and it's tough to say no when a drunk girl is hanging onto you at a party. Plus with the advent of Tinder, casual hookups are more common than ever on campuses. If a girl feels disrespected or used after an encounter, how will she react? As for the recruiting visits Rod, you're partially right but I don't think that happens at every school and with every recruit. I can tell you that on my visit Jimmy Baron just drove me around town and we had dinner with the coaching staff at Coast Guard House!

My point is there's no black and white answer in these situations and the bottom line is these players have a far tougher landscape to navigate than in previous years.

This is completely in control of the coaching staff. If you have Jimmy Baron show a recruit around you're not going to get trouble. If you have someone else and you tell them, "Show him a good time, wink, wink," you can have a problem.
And the staff warns players about the situation that KB is talking about. It's then up to the players, and hopefully they make the right decision.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

He returns on Dec 22nd which will be his 1st practice with the team. What kind of shape will he be in? How will he mesh with his new and old teammates? This is much different than a transfer being eligible who has been practicing and playing pick up games with the team for a year. There will be a lot of issues to deal with when he returns.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

eli#10 wrote:He returns on Dec 22nd which will be his 1st practice with the team. What kind of shape will he be in? How will he mesh with his new and old teammates? This is much different than a transfer being eligible who has been practicing and playing pick up games with the team for a year. There will be a lot of issues to deal with when he returns.

That's not the point. If he did what he's being accused of, he should NEVER play college basketball again.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

The Blackburn Review guy keeps mentioning that this could be Kavanaugh 2.0. For those that don't know what that means here's an article that explains that situation.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/new ... yer/nSpm9/

This whole thing gets back to a discussion we had on here last year when we talked about who we would vote for as A10 Coach of the Year. Yes, Archie Miller the coach was great last year, but how much credit should he have gotten when it was Archie Miller the GM that brought in the bad seeds that left him shorthanded in the first place? I understand Dayton and their fans are going to be ok for the most part with what's going on because it's coming with tournament success, but at what point do outsiders look at that program and wonder why Miller keeps having problems with his players if we're not already? It seems like they have an excessive amount of issues, and that would seem to point right at Miller and the type of people he's recruiting. Is he really unlucky at evaluating people? Is he bad at it? Does he know they might be bad people but not care?

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

I do not disagree billy but right now he is scheduled to rejoin the team.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 8 years ago

Maybe Pierre's transgression violates the code of conduct at Dayton, a catholic institution, yet does not rise to the level of criminality....hence the semester suspension rather than an expulsion....

....in light of similar incidents around the country I doubt the school would expose itself to liability by not expelling criminals....

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 8 years ago

I believe I saw in one of the articles along the way (forget which one now) is that there is evidence that an incident happened but there is not enough evidence to go to trial. (these cases are very tough to prove sometimes, especially if time has passed between the incident and the reporting and n rape kit can be done)

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

Per Jeff Goodman at ESPN, Pierre has hired a very prominent attorney and is fighting the charges.

This attorney has represented Dez Wells against Xavier, along with NFL players Ray Rice and Jonathan Vilma.

Pierre adamently maintains that he engaged in no inappropriate behavior of any sort.

The Montgomery County Ohio prosecutor's office declined to press charges against Pierre.

Sounds like he could have been falsely accused.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... suspension

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

"(He) adamantly denies that he engaged in any inappropriate conduct of any sort. Law enforcement clearly agreed and decided not to pursue prosecution of him."

Not a logical conclusion, but lawyer's just doing his job. If any person's falsely accused, that's tragic and an experience no one deserves. At the same time, not enough evidence to prosecute doesn't mean complete innocence, in any case.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:"(He) adamantly denies that he engaged in any inappropriate conduct of any sort. Law enforcement clearly agreed and decided not to pursue prosecution of him."

Not a logical conclusion, but lawyer's just doing his job. If any person's falsely accused, that's tragic and an experience no one deserves. At the same time, not enough evidence to prosecute doesn't mean complete innocence.

It sounds very similar to the Austin & Bullock situation at Providence College two years ago. Law Enforcement felt there was not enough evidence to go forward with charges. PC suspended both players for failure to live up to the student code of conduct. Austin later left PC for Oregon and within months had similar allegations made against him there. Bullock remained at PC and will suit up this season.

While there were no charges against Austin and Bullock in Providence, the fact that Austin was in a similar situation soon after makes one think there was very likely something to the PC female student's accusation. She was so traumatized by the episode that she transferred out.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

Quick rundown...both Pierre and the woman were drinking...she returned to his bed 3x, so no indication that she was raped...he indicated in his statement to police that she never said no or to stop or that she was being forced to do anything against her will...her friends reported the alleged assault...she told police that she didn't want to press charges, but she didn't want him let off without punishment...he told her as he was leaving at 5 am that he was going to go see his ex-girlfriend, this might have angered her...she may have felt guilty about cheating on her boyfriend...I think that covers most of it...udpride or Blackburn has all the details...sounds like he is innocent.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

daytonflyerfan wrote:Quick rundown...sounds like he is innocent.

Of course it does.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
daytonflyerfan wrote:Quick rundown...sounds like he is innocent.
Of course it does.

Are you being sarcastic? I can't always pick up on that on a message board.

You think he's guilty? Why?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

It isn't so much that I think he is guilty, it's that nobody ever thinks their guy did anything wrong.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

We have no idea if he's guilty or she's a liar or something in between, but let's not act like that rundown is some objective piece.

she returned to bed, so how could she have been raped?
she told police she didn't want to press charges

Neither of these things are indicative of an assault happening or not. Victims of crimes, including sexual abuse and assault, may act in ways that don't make sense to a person not in the situation. Rape is a highly unreported crime, for a variety of reasons.

he indicated (she indicates that she pushed at him and told him to stop)
this might have angered her
she may have felt guilty

Or, she might have been raped. I don't know what happened. Neither do you. I have no interest in turning any accusation into a witch hunt, but we have to get better at understanding and talking about these things.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

http://www.blackburnreview.com/dyshawn- ... nt-report/

Incident report from the UD police, I have not read this yet.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

TruePoint wrote:It isn't so much that I think he is guilty, it's that nobody ever thinks their guy did anything wrong.

Yes, that is fair, I agree.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:We have no idea if he's guilty or she's a liar or something in between, but let's not act like that rundown is some objective piece.

she returned to bed, so how could she have been raped?
she told police she didn't want to press charges

Neither of these things are indicative of an assault happening or not. Victims of crimes, including sexual abuse and assault, may act in ways that don't make sense to a person not in the situation. Rape is a highly unreported crime, for a variety of reasons.

he indicated (she indicates that she pushed at him and told him to stop)
this might have angered her
she may have felt guilty

Or, she might have been raped. I don't know what happened. Neither do you. I have no interest in turning any accusation into a witch hunt, but we have to get better at understanding and talking about these things.

Agree, also fair points, doesn't rape have to be non-consensual though? It sounds like she had plenty of opportunity to flee or to just leave.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

daytonflyerfan wrote:
ace wrote:We have no idea if he's guilty or she's a liar or something in between, but let's not act like that rundown is some objective piece.

she returned to bed, so how could she have been raped?
she told police she didn't want to press charges

Neither of these things are indicative of an assault happening or not. Victims of crimes, including sexual abuse and assault, may act in ways that don't make sense to a person not in the situation. Rape is a highly unreported crime, for a variety of reasons.

he indicated (she indicates that she pushed at him and told him to stop)
this might have angered her
she may have felt guilty

Or, she might have been raped. I don't know what happened. Neither do you. I have no interest in turning any accusation into a witch hunt, but we have to get better at understanding and talking about these things.
Agree, also fair points, doesn't rape have to be non-consensual though? It sounds like she had plenty of opportunity to flee or to just leave.

Yes, rape is non-consensual. Not running away does not imply consent. Not fighting back does not imply consent. Again, as we don't know what happened in this case, I'll talk in generalities. There are reasons why rape victims may not act like one thinks they should- including fear of escalated violence, threats, or retaliation, undeserved guilt/shame (how did I get myself into this situation?), shock, dissociation, triggering of a previous trauma or assault.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:
Yes, rape is non-consensual. Not running away does not imply consent. Not fighting back does not imply consent. Again, as we don't know what happened in this case, I'll talk in generalities. There are reasons why rape victims may not act like one thinks they should- including fear of escalated violence, threats, or retaliation, undeserved guilt/shame (how did I get myself into this situation?), shock, dissociation, triggering of a previous trauma or assault.

Ok, so I read the incident report.

Very different accounts of what happened, her version of events is much different than his version.

I don't know what to think, the two stories are so divergent, that I don't know what to believe.

Could this have been a rape? IMO, yes. However, I don't see any indication that she was really forced into anything, she was more of a passive participant if her version of events is accurate.

I'd say that this would be hard to prosecute as a rape.

In hindsight, I'd say that her being alone with him was not a good idea since she did not seem to posess the ability to walk away/get away from the situation.

I genuinely feel bad for her that this happened if her story is accurate.

I'd say she was scared the entire time, that fear prevented her from leaving, and that lead to a potential rape.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

So I guess the challenge is how do we (as in society) deal with these kinds of incidents in a way that equally protects both parties? Discuss.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 8 years ago

I keep trying to post something on this. It is such a hard issue to pin down. I'm not sure there is a policy that can address it adequately.

The private nature of the crime/or not crime leave both people vulnerable to the other person's actions/or words.

Ok, read the report. People that are that aggressive make me sick. Its this gray area of social manipulation where people like him get away with stuff.

I'm always shocked that universities try to handle this stuff. Personally, if the rape flag goes up it should be the actual police that handle it.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 8 years ago

Two things, as ace points out there is no book on how to respond to an assault of this nature, both during and subsequently. Judging guilt/innocence by any behavior(s)/actions before or after an incident isn't proof at all. Which brings me to thing number two, as Seapg points out the private nature of these kinds of situations creates quite the issue with regards to peoples being vulnerable to partial truths and outright lies.

The issue is so much larger than the few assaults that come to light each year within or coming from the sports world. I'm not a religious man, that is to say any of the "GodHead" religions, unless of course you consider Frank Keaney as a "GodHead", but it really does boil down to the whole 'do unto others as...' or the 'Love thy neighbor as yourself' thing. Everything boils down to that one simple concept and it is too foreign an idea to most people. Sure, some folks will never have the capacity to empathize or even sympathize, but the rest of us are somewhere on a spectrum and we need to be taught and encouraged to live by this standard from the very beginning. Don't hold your breath!

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

"Supended Dayton SF Suing University Over 'Unfair' Investigation" via http://TeamStre.am by Bleacher Report

http://bit.ly/1LkJ9fB

EGram · Unread post by **EGram** » 8 years ago

Unfortunately, under title IX and a letter sent out to college's by the government about 4 years ago Universities feel compelled to create absurdly one sided system's for deciding sexual assault cases. There have been many cases where any reasonable person would conclude assault did not occur. Yet kids get expelled, and branded a rapist because schools have systems in place that essentially make it nearly impossible to defeat an assault accusation.. Here is one where a kid got expelled at Amherst. http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6588. Another well publicized one in California https://reason.com/blog/2014/06/04/occi ... rape-under .

I blame the media for hyping up the "campus rape epidemic". Constantly citing the made up 20% of all women are sexually assaulted at college figure. Despite the government numbers showing it's actually about 0.4%. While any sexual assault is too many, Rape statistics have actually gone down by about 50% since the 90's and women in college are actually less likely to be assaulted then the general population.

I have no idea what happened in this Dayton situation. But I think it's very wrong we have these kangaroo courts at universities. Why not just let law enforcement handle this?

BleedBlue87 · Unread post by **BleedBlue87** » 8 years ago

This is probably not the place to talk about the merits or lack thereof of sexual assault policies on college campuses....

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 8 years ago

I can't imagine another school being interested in him while he is still under investigation.

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