The refs! - 2014-2015

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 9 years ago

My favorite ref-related moment of this season was Bobby Hurley getting a technical called on him 55 seconds into a game.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 9 years ago

http://deadspin.com/the-one-thing-both- ... 1692056923

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 9 years ago

I usually don't like to comment on this thread because there's so much in a game that happens beyond the refs...but holy shit. That was beyond. The Ryan center was half full and booed them louder than I've heard the crowd collectively boo anyone. That was some shit tonight.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

That is priceless!!!

Where do they get these refs? Bad high school games?

They are horrendous, most of them. It isn't likely to get better either.

If we go out west later this week, let's see how good [or bad] they are out there.

Something tells me not much will be different.

Actually, when they see us play defense, they're likely to foul our entire team out.

In the first half.

BM, the NIT must not play these guys much. And this is what results.

We're getting second tier refs, or worse. Most of the good ones are doing the NCAA games, I would guess.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Tim Welsh during the broadcast "Rhode Island fans heckle like heckling the refs more than cheering for dunks and made shots." I will say the ref boos were loudest the place sounded all night.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

We heckle because we care....

The refs give us so much ammunition to do so....do their fucking job right, and it wouldn't happen....

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Bar, that's because we were kicking the shit out of Iona and once it got to around 20 the refs stepped in and stopped it. We should have been up by 30 at the half and won by over 40. Iona was a fraud this year. So were the refs.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

We had six guys with 2 fouls in the 1st half. I had visions of Iffy, Eric and Shane playing in a tight game at the end.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Iona shot 24 ft's in the first half. We shot 11.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

It's funny that Hurley went after the bald one like that, because I thought Captain Hair Gel was the worst one by far. I have to say as much as I like seeing this on a personal level, as a fan of the team I know that kind of reaction going national is just going to hurt Hurley even more with the refs.

And all that said, I think the ref got that call right. You can't pull your knees up like that when you're hanging on the rim. Biruta got a technical earlier this year for the same offense.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 9 years ago

The rule for hanging on the rim was put in place because they didn't want players pimping their dunks and showing up their opponents. By the definition of the rule could they make the call? Sure. Should they have? Largely unnecessary. Call the goaltending and move on.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

To their credit, the officials keep their whistles in their pocket a lot more in the 2nd half, or else there could have been a riot.

Maybe they got the hint, after that joke of a 1st half, and all the booing.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 9 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:It's funny that Hurley went after the bald one like that, because I thought Captain Hair Gel was the worst one by far.

It was mentioned on the game thread that Hurley was motioning not for the "bald ref" but rather for the slick hair-gel ref. The deadspin story says it's the bald guy, but it's the slick hair guy that bothered him in Brooklyn and last night.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:To their credit, the officials keep their whistles in their pocket a lot more in the 2nd half, or else there could have been a riot.

Maybe they got the hint, after that joke of a 1st half, and all the booing.

Sorry Bone, but they were a little subdued in the first 5-8 minutes, but after that it became ridiculous again. We get a pretty good birds eye view in 306, and there were many calls and non calls that had everyone around me jawing at the refs. I said to my wife on the way out, that that was the worst reffed game this year.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 9 years ago

Each successive game has been the worst officiated game of the year.....

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 9 years ago

A bunch of us in 205 and 105 were hooting on Wally Rutecki (someone refers to him as Grecian Formula due to the suspicious coloring of his hair) before the game started, and by the second half there must have been 100 of us on him constantly.

And he deserved every last syllable of it.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 9 years ago

Amazing that wally has done 2 of the team's last 3 games.
Will he continue to be assigned to our games until either he, dh or someone in the crowd goes postal?

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 9 years ago

For Iona we had:

Wally Rutecki http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/wally-rutecki
Bill McCarthy http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/bill-mccarthy
Jeffrey Anderson http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/jeffrey-anderson

Well, we all know Wally by now... T'd up Dan in Brookly vs GW and obviously was not done with Dan when he arrived in Kingston..

Bill McCarthy should also be well known to us by now.. He's called 5 of our games this season

This was Jeffrey Anderson's first Rhode Island game he has called this year he has reffed our games in the past... Tough tech on Amayo for hanging on the rim, but I enjoyed it.

Loved booing the refs off the court at halftime

Bos8 · Unread post by **Bos8** » 9 years ago

Just saw that Pete Thamel is reporting that the same ref who has zapped our Coach Hurley the last two times is doing the Buffalo and Bobby Hurley's NCAA game. (Wally Rutecki)

Rhodyhooopz · Unread post by **Rhodyhooopz** » 9 years ago

Found the guys from last night. 2 Pac 12 guys and a big sky ref

Dick Cartmell - Pac 12
Deron White - Pac 12
Robert Lehigh - Big Sky

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Talk about bias. The NIT is a joke.

I agree with Rod, I had a bad feeling about this game.

I figured Stanford would march to the line all night. Talk about being right.

That definitely explains the one sided nature of the calls.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 9 years ago

For Stanford we had:

Dick Cartmell http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/dick-cartmell
Deron White http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/deron-white
Robert Lehigh http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/robert-lehigh

As previously mentioned Cartmell and White are both experienced Pac-12 refs. Cartmell has reffed in five Final Fours.

Lehigh has only reffed 50 games in his career.

See you all next year!

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

They were awful but that's not why we lost the game. An area of improvement for DH is his finessing of the refs, the ESPNU guys were being absurd about it, but it is true that you cant be the boy who cried wolf on every play. Has to do better at picking his spots to let them have it.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

I wonder, do coaches get together with the head refs during the offseason, and try to come to a general understanding of the rules and how they're being enforced?

Or at least try to smooth things over?

If so, I would think it might be a good idea for Dan to do this.

Just a thought.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:They were awful but that's not why we lost the game. An area of improvement for DH is his finessing of the refs, the ESPNU guys were being absurd about it, but it is true that you cant be the boy who cried wolf on every play. Has to do better at picking his spots to let them have it.

Been thinking a lot about this and I have a hard time with Dan's sideline behavior. Is he supposed to just remain silent while his team is getting screwed? If he has a case to argue, it's incumbent upon him to argue it. The players need to know he has their backs, and apparently they do, because they leave the arguing to him.

Or, maybe he was trying to draw a technical because he didn't see any other way to wake his team up.

As for the clowns on ESPN, it was amazing that while describing a game they could spend so much time focusing their eyeballs on Dan that they knew exactly what he was saying. And they didn't have a problem with the disparity in fouls? Maybe if they had watched the game instead of Dan they would have seen why he was complaining. Let's face it -- we haven't gotten respect from the officials since the days of St. Daddy-o the Great.

neil · Unread post by **neil** » 9 years ago

We lost the game because of poor play. But tell me how having 35 fouls against you in a 40 minute game did not affect the outcome.

Rhodekill · Unread post by **Rhodekill** » 9 years ago

I have no problem with Dan's sideline demeanor.....I like the intensity and it influences the players as well, in my opinion...

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

It seems to be OK for some teams to play in-your-face defense, and not OK for others.

We don't get the respect that Shaka and VCU gets, that's for sure.

VCU however has the cache of 5 straight NCAA appearances, and we don't.

Now, on the other hand,

Shaka also doesn't go ballistic on every call either.

There has to be a happy [if that's the word] medium between going nuts and staying calm.

Dan hopefully will find that zone soon.

There is a growing chorus of complaints against him. It's not good for him, the team, or the school to continue as he has. He has to tone it down, seriously.

If we do make the Dance, refs that haven't seen him will do just what the Stanford refs did, and take his team right out of the game. That can't happen.

Rhodekill, his demeanor is getting us fouled out of games. Do you want our best players sitting for 20 minutes due to fouls?

Who else fouls like we do? Coincidence?

Whether the fouls are legit or not, they're being called. And it's killing us.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:It seems to be OK for some teams to play in-your-face defense, and not OK for others.

We don't get the respect that Shaka and VCU gets, that's for sure.

VCU however has the cache of 5 straight NCAA appearances, and we don't.

Now, on the other hand,

Shaka also doesn't go ballistic on every call either.

There has to be a happy [if that's the word] medium between going nuts and staying calm.

Dan hopefully will find that zone soon.

There is a growing chorus of complaints against him. It's not good for him, the team, or the school to continue as he has. He has to tone it down, seriously.

If we do make the Dance, refs that haven't seen him will do just what the Stanford refs did, and take his team right out of the game. That can't happen.

Rhodekill, his demeanor is getting us fouled out of games. Do you want our best players sitting for 20 minutes due to fouls?

Who else fouls like we do? Coincidence?

Whether the fouls are legit or not, they're being called. And it's killing us.

If VCU was getting screwed the way we got screwed at Stanford, you bet Shaka Smart would be going ballistic. People on this board used to rip Al Skinner because he didn't fight hard enough.

Again, so what is he supposed to do when we're getting screwed -- roll over and play dead?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Don't know, but whatever he's doing, it's not working.

Could be making them call even more fouls against us.

The Dan Hurley style of defense is not making friends and influencing people in the ref community.

They are certainly enforcing the new rules to a T against us, that's for sure.

Dayton plays aggressive defense same as us, yet they rarely get in foul trouble. They must be doing something better than we're doing, like keeping their hands off the offensive player?

That's what Dan needs to work on, in the offseason.

luke · Unread post by **luke** » 9 years ago

Rambone, Dayton players did not commit the silly fouls like Biruta and Terrell who often grab somebody in the backcourt or try to fight for a rebound after the opposing player has gained position and control of the ball. dayton knew they HAD to stay in the game so they couldn't afford the cheap fouls. URI players have to start thinking that way.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

That's on the coaching staff, luke.

Gil was the poster boy for silly fouls, but he's gone. Terrell is learning the hard way, but he should get better. Aggressive is good, but he's too aggressive at times.

It's all about discipline, or lack of it. Same for the reaching fouls.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

I'm sticking with my original thoughts the night of the game. We played lousy, but the refs, regardless of their reasoning, turned the game against us, especially in the second half. It is extremely difficult to play with focus, when you are getting called for everything, while the other team isn't.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

There's an article on www.si.com that discusses Wisconsin and their training to avoid fouling.

It's a good read. One thing that coach Ryan does is have his defenders in practice guard players with a tennis ball in each hand.

A lot of things in that article make sense. Anybody who can send the link should send it to Dan.

Couldn't hurt.

DanInAZ · Unread post by **DanInAZ** » 9 years ago

When my dad retired from coaching he was awarded special recognition from the Referees (not sure from the league or from NJ association). He joked that by winning the award it proved he was right to retire from coaching.

In case you don't quite understand - My dad was very quiet, was on the bench most of the time, and only got up to instruct his players (not to yell at the refs). The refs had the utmost respect for him. I think he only got one 'T' during his career.

I think he would have traded getting a few more T's for a few more W's.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

DanInAZ wrote:When my dad retired from coaching he was awarded special recognition from the Referees (not sure from the league or from NJ association). He joked that by winning the award it proved he was right to retire from coaching.

In case you don't quite understand - My dad was very quiet, was on the bench most of the time, and only got up to instruct his players (not to yell at the refs). The refs had the utmost respect for him. I think he only got one 'T' during his career.

I think he would have traded getting a few more T's for a few more W's.

Did he yell at you, Danny-Boy??????????

Sounds like the old man must've been a History teacher……..

DanInAZ · Unread post by **DanInAZ** » 9 years ago

Nope, my dad never yelled as his kids. My mom was a different story. *wink*

While he did love teaching, I could never imagine him as a teacher of anything academic; although we did have one night at the dinner table he went over the fundamentals of bowling (he is old school... went to Springfield college... and could instruct technique on many sports - tennis, squash, baseball, bowling, basketball, etc.) which went on for over an hour. *smacks head against the wall*

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 9 years ago

RoadyJay wrote:For Stanford we had:

Dick Cartmell http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/dick-cartmell
Deron White http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/deron-white
Robert Lehigh http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/robert-lehigh

As previously mentioned Cartmell and White are both experienced Pac-12 refs. Cartmell has reffed in five Final Fours.

Lehigh has only reffed 50 games in his career.

See you all next year!

Roady Jay u r right and my guess is that one ref who does MONTANA GAES AND NOT MANY OF THEM, IS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE WITH THE OTHER TWO EXPERIENCED REFS. I STILL REMEMBER THE HIGH SCHOOL CHARGING CALL ON EC WHEBYN THE DEFENDER WAS CLEARLY MOVING. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

BY THE WAY, CARTMELL DROPPED OUT OF THE PAC J12WHEN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, ED RUSH, THE OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF THE pAC 12 REFS, PUT OUT A "bOUNTY" OUT TO CALL A TECHNICAL ON SEAN MILLER OF AZ.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

McRam wrote:
RoadyJay wrote:For Stanford we had:

Dick Cartmell http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/dick-cartmell
Deron White http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/deron-white
Robert Lehigh http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/robert-lehigh

As previously mentioned Cartmell and White are both experienced Pac-12 refs. Cartmell has reffed in five Final Fours.

Lehigh has only reffed 50 games in his career.

See you all next year!
Roady Jay u r right and my guess is that one ref who does MONTANA GAES AND NOT MANY OF THEM, IS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE WITH THE OTHER TWO EXPERIENCED REFS. I STILL REMEMBER THE HIGH SCHOOL CHARGING CALL ON EC WHEBYN THE DEFENDER WAS CLEARLY MOVING. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

BY THE WAY, CARTMELL DROPPED OUT OF THE PAC J12WHEN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, ED RUSH, THE OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF THE pAC 12 REFS, PUT OUT A "bOUNTY" OUT TO CALL A TECHNICAL ON SEAN MILLER OF AZ.

Jeez, what's with all of the caps????? You angry, McRam?

Rhowdy17 · Unread post by **Rhowdy17** » 9 years ago

bressler3south wrote:
McRam wrote:
RoadyJay wrote:For Stanford we had:

Dick Cartmell http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/dick-cartmell
Deron White http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/deron-white
Robert Lehigh http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/robert-lehigh

As previously mentioned Cartmell and White are both experienced Pac-12 refs. Cartmell has reffed in five Final Fours.

Lehigh has only reffed 50 games in his career.

See you all next year!
Roady Jay u r right and my guess is that one ref who does MONTANA GAES AND NOT MANY OF THEM, IS OUT OF HIS LEAGUE WITH THE OTHER TWO EXPERIENCED REFS. I STILL REMEMBER THE HIGH SCHOOL CHARGING CALL ON EC WHEBYN THE DEFENDER WAS CLEARLY MOVING. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

BY THE WAY, CARTMELL DROPPED OUT OF THE PAC J12WHEN A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, ED RUSH, THE OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF THE pAC 12 REFS, PUT OUT A "bOUNTY" OUT TO CALL A TECHNICAL ON SEAN MILLER OF AZ.
Jeez, what's with all of the caps????? You angry, McRam?

u mad bro?

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 9 years ago

I gotta say I'm sick of people bitching about Dan's intensity. If we were 10-23, I'd say "yeah, that's a problem," but we weren't. We were the opposite. A lot of the reason we had fight in close games this year was because of Dan's attitude. His players use that and play that way. Give me that and twice on Sunday.

We didn't lose a single game because of the refs this year. We lost games because of freshman moments, poor play, turnovers, and shooting.

I could give 2 shits if Dan took his shirt off and threw it at a ref and then called Thorr, and the Hardy brothers to come in off the top ropes and kill the zebra man with a 4 post massacre.

With everything that goes on in college athletics from the academic crap to the violations, if this is the worst thing you have to say about a basketball coach who turned a program from a 12 year joke to a dangerous competitor in 3 seasons, I think that's a fair price.

Plus don't use anything Ben Howland says on TV about Dan Hurley's attitude. Dude is an AWFUL color guy. Thank God he's getting back to coaching.

Rhodekill · Unread post by **Rhodekill** » 9 years ago

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 9 years ago

Thanks, BlueMan for speaking the truth on the subject!

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 9 years ago

Blue Man is eloquent in his own way!

"I could give 2 shits if Dan took his shirt off and threw it at a ref and then called Thorr, and the Hardy brothers to come in off the top ropes and kill the zebra man with a 4 post massacre. "

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

Here are the stats at season end:
Fouls:
Full year URI 694 Opponents 668
Conference only URI 360 Opponents 361

Free throw attempts:
Full year URI 812 Opponents 722 (URI with 90 more or 12.5%)
Conference only URI 446 Opponents 396 (URI with 50 more or 12.6%)

I'd disagree that from the statistics that Officials are penalizing URI unduly formDan Hurley's sideline antics at least based on this years statistics.
I'm in the camp for letting him run the team and conduct himself as he wishes.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 9 years ago

ramster wrote:Here are the stats at season end:
Fouls:
Full year URI 694 Opponents 668
Conference only URI 360 Opponents 361

Free throw attempts:
Full year URI 812 Opponents 722 (URI with 90 more or 12.5%)
Conference only URI 446 Opponents 396 (URI with 50 more or 12.6%)

I'd disagree that from the statistics that Officials are penalizing URI unduly formDan Hurley's sideline antics at least based on this years statistics.
I'm in the camp for letting him run the team and conduct himself as he wishes.

The fact that there's a stat that backs up what I said just made my pants tighter. Great find.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

Just for you Blue Man I went back the last two years as well:
Actually this was the best year for URI of 3 years in the Hurley era

Free Throws have increased versus opponents significantly. Further evidence to leave Dan alone, the Referee "out to get him" conspiracy does not seem to evidence itself in the numbers

For 2015: We had 12.5% more FT attempts than opponents in both Full Season and Conference Only. For Fouls we had 4% more Full Year and Even in Conference Play

For 2014: 2% more FT attempts Full Year and 5% less in Conference than opponents. Fouls were even in Full Year and Conference

For 2013: 11% fewer FT attempts Full Year and 20% less in Conference than opponents. For Fouls we had 7% more Full Year and 14% more in Conference Play

2015 FT attempts:
FY: URI 812 Opponents 722 (URI with 90 more or 12.5%)
Conf only: URI 446 Opponents 396 (URI with 50 more or 12.6%)

2014 FT attempts:
FY: URI 779 Opponents 762 (URI with 17 more or 2%)
Conf only: URI 384 Opponents 403 (URI with 19 less or 5%)

2013 FT attempts:
FY: URI 553 Opponents 623 (URI with 70 less or 11%)
Conf only: URI 299 Opponents 372 (URI with 73 less or 20%)

2015 Fouls:
FY: URI 694 Opponents 668 - URI with 26 more or 4%
Conf only: URI 360 Opponents 361- Even

2014 Fouls:
FY: URI 651 Opponents 648 - Even
Conf only: URI 328 Opponents 322 - Even

2013 Fouls:
FY: URI 561 Opponents 526 - URI with 35 more or 7%
Conf only: URI 327 Opponents 287 - URI with 40 more or 14%

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 9 years ago

Nice work, Ramster! Thanks

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:Nice work, Ramster! Thanks

Thanks ATP,
Just to be clear my goal was to take a factual look at the Fouls and Free Throws. Maybe also to slow down the criticism of Dan Hurley's antics on the sideline that causes Referees to unfairly treat URI.
One could make the statement that we drive more to the hoop now, especially with EC, JT and JG.........plus Martin establishing himself as unstopable inside, so we draw more fouls than the teams that took a lot of 3 pointers and jump shots.
One could also say that URI is ahead much more often now as evidenced by the 23-10 record so there can be more intentional fouling by the opposition to try to full out a win in the final minutes.

On the other hand, and I think this is very important, our team is playing the most tenacious defense that I have ever seen a URI team play - so that makes the FT numbers in our favor even more impressive. Martin plays tremendous defense, blocks shots, etc but really keeps his fouls in pretty good order - he is just a tremendousl athlete.

My goal was NEVER to make Blueman's pants tighter

Captainron@ · Unread post by **Captainron@** » 9 years ago

ramster wrote:Here are the stats at season end:
Fouls:
Full year URI 694 Opponents 668
Conference only URI 360 Opponents 361

Free throw attempts:
Full year URI 812 Opponents 722 (URI with 90 more or 12.5%)
Conference only URI 446 Opponents 396 (URI with 50 more or 12.6%)

I'd disagree that from the statistics that Officials are penalizing URI unduly formDan Hurley's sideline antics at least based on this years statistics.
I'm in the camp for letting him run the team and conduct himself as he wishes.

Too bad this couldn't have been posted back in time on day 1

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