General Recruiting Discussion/Comments 2022 and before

[TruePoint]

Too "Poly Purebred". Sorry, real world big programs don't operate
like they're run by Mary Poppins.

Only the worst human beings in college sports run off players that they recruited because they don't turn out to be as good as the coach thought they'd be when he recruited them. When you bring a guy in you make a commitment to that guy that goes beyond basketball. Living up to that won't keep you from winning. In fact, if you need to depend on churning your scholarships you probably aren't a very good recruiter and/or developer, so you should probably find a different line of work. On a rare occasion if a guy isn't living up to his end of the bargain or everyone would benefit from a guy moving on (including the player), then fine. But you can't make it a habit and not a lot of coaches do.

[rodfromcranston]

So, in your minds, the nearly 500 transfers last year
all left because they wanted to leave?
Sure. I'm Batman.

[RhowdyRam02]

Too "Poly Purebred". Sorry, real world big programs don't operate
like they're run by Mary Poppins.

It might be too Polly Purebred for you, but for me and a lot of others these are still kids and college players should be treated differently than pro players. Lord knows they're treated differently when it comes to compensation, they should be treated differently when it comes to their roster spaces. If a player wants to leave because they're no longer a good fit and it's done the right way there's no problem. But telling someone who's committed to you to hit the bricks if they don't want to isn't right.

[rodfromcranston]

Coaches every year, have what amount to exist interviews.
Telling a kid that he likely won't play, is being honest with him.
The player knows he's not playing.
Why would anyone want to just be a practice player,
if at some point, they were good enough to get a scholarship?
A lot of coaches even offer to help use their connections to help the player
land a spot elsewhere.
If a player has pride and wants to play, he shouldn't have to be
kicked down the stairs.
It happens all the time.

[TruePoint]

So, in your minds, the nearly 500 transfers last year
all left because they wanted to leave?
Sure. I'm Batman.

I'm sure many did leave independently, some mutually agreed with their coach to a separation, and others maybe became a bad fit after a coaching change. The rest (however many that may be) just have lousy people as coaches. There certainly is no shortage of them in college sports.

[rodfromcranston]

And some kids are lousy kids. Read about it daily.

[RhowdyRam02]

Coaches every year, have what amount to exist interviews.
Telling a kid that he likely won't play, is being honest with him.
The player knows he's not playing.
Why would anyone want to just be a practice player,
if at some point, they were good enough to get a scholarship?
A lot of coaches even offer to help use their connections to help the player
land a spot elsewhere.
If a player has pride and wants to play, he shouldn't have to be
kicked down the stairs.
It happens all the time.

And that's a perfectly fine way of going about things. It's one thing to recruit the best players possible and then be honest with players. If Coach Hurley doesn't think certain guys have much of a shot of getting playing time, he should be honest with those guys. No problem with that. But if the player decides that URI is still where he wants to be and he's ok with whatever role Hurley has in mind then that player should have a place on our team.

[rodfromcranston]

OK, so, we agree on this.
It's wrong to kick anyone off a program, unless there's conduct or
academic problems.
Nothing wrong with being up front about a player's
future prospects.

[Gonebarongone]

Don't be a schmuck coach. Honor the scholarship. If you offer a scholarship to the kid, the contract should be you bust your tail on the court and in the classroom (and don't get arrested along the way), then you have a four year scholarship. Part of that agreement will be a frank and honest discussion about where you stand in the program at the end of every year. But, these are still kids. Have you never heard of a 20 year that has become attached to a school outside of basketball?0 And you are going to run him off? Because if you have that frank and open discussion and he STILL wants to stay. It's probably because he loves his school. There should be a difference between college and pro (especially since the NCAA stomps on athletes in many other ways). This should be one of them. There shouldn't be cap casualties in college. Maybe evaluate talent better before offering a scholarship.

[ace]

GBG- is that directed to anyone in particular or coaches in general? Because you've articulated the current coach's philosophy very well.

[bressler3south]

Look, I need one or more of you running the New York Football Giants.

[Ramulous]

I agree with the tenor of most people's posts....I tend to fall in love with each and every one of our players......I don't want to push anyone out if they want to stay at Rhody.....there is nothing wrong with being honest with each player as to the amount of playing time they are likely to see in the future...most kids are not happy to sit on the bench.....I wouldn't be.....but there are kids who like the school more than we think for many different reasons....

...I am opposed to yanking a kids scholarship if they want to stay.....and I don't believe in promising any recruit that we won't recruit other players at his position.....because if you make that promise you should keep it...and I believe that is an unrealistic promise....

[bressler3south]

Please don't forget that these are "Coach Hurley's Guys," young men who he has helped to mold. I think it may mean a lot to him to see this first class through.
Then again, I'm prone to be wrong about most stuff...

[Seawrightspostgame]

Is iffy from America??? We used to have that African pipeline with parfait, Mbang, the guy before them(I forget his name).

Keeping the kids can build goodwill for future recruits.

If Matt Butler is remotely good at anything outside basketball and has any likelihood of staying in RI, then uri should keep him. There is a drain of talented youth in the state.

[ace]

Iffy is from Nigeria.

[Gonebarongone]

GBG- is that directed to anyone in particular or coaches in general? Because you've articulated the current coach's philosophy very well.

Maybe Jim Calhoun! I'm glad DH is like that. Not surprising.

[SGreenwell]

I think I've said this previously in this thread or other threads, but... If the player is performing well in class and working hard in practice, I don't think the scholarship should be cut. I think it's perfectly fine for Hurley to meet with a Matthew Butler-type player after the year and say, "We love the effort you're giving, but if you stay, you're probably not going to get a ton of playing time unless there are significant injuries." If the player wants to stay or go at this point, I think that's fine.

[rodfromcranston]

Lazare Andingono is the guy you're thinking of SPG.
Not a bad player. He was from Cameroon, as was Bitee,
and earlier, Andrew Wafula, back on the Elite 8 team.

[Seawrightspostgame]

Oh, yea all those guys were alright players in their own right.

I do like the Expressions Elite line that has opened up.

[Keaney.Blue]

As Rod said, at the end of the year Coaches have exit interviews with players. There's a very honest discussion about the player's performance both on and off the court. It's in those meetings where players are either praised or told they're not going to play and are nudged to transfer. With that said, if the player has good grades and follows the rules, it's very difficult to rescind a scholarship.

At the end of the day, high level college basketball is very much a business and the players are the employees. No matter what you hear, players are athletes first and students second. That doesn't mean that academics aren't important, but both players and coaches alike judge their worth based on on-court performance. If a player isn't playing, he's likely to transfer despite liking everything else about the school. And if a coach doesn't see a player performing, he's likely to want him to leave despite good grades and good off-court behavior

[rodfromcranston]

Thanks, KB, for a real world view of what actually happens.

[Billyboy78]

So Will, what's Baron's line to somebody he no longer wants, "You are no longer part of da process."?

[runninrams5]

Two guys to possibly consider as 5th year transfers are Aaron Roundtree and Daniel Green of Wake Forest

[TruePoint]

As Rod said, at the end of the year Coaches have exit interviews with players. There's a very honest discussion about the player's performance both on and off the court. It's in those meetings where players are either praised or told they're not going to play and are nudged to transfer. With that said, if the player has good grades and follows the rules, it's very difficult to rescind a scholarship.

At the end of the day, high level college basketball is very much a business and the players are the employees. No matter what you hear, players are athletes first and students second. That doesn't mean that academics aren't important, but both players and coaches alike judge their worth based on on-court performance. If a player isn't playing, he's likely to transfer despite liking everything else about the school. And if a coach doesn't see a player performing, he's likely to want him to leave despite good grades and good off-court behavior

Sure, I don't think you'll find many people here who don't understand that this goes on or who have a problem with it. Giving each player an open and honest assessment is 100% the right thing to do. Ultimately, though, kids that do the right things and work hard should be given the final say. If they want to play, they should be given their release and the coach's blessing to pursue other opportunities. If they love their school and their teammates they should be allowed to stay. But that is totally different than pulling a kid's scholarship because your evaluation of him coming out of high school was wrong.

[rodfromcranston]

Roundtree 6'9" 190lbs. (???) never got off the bench at WF. and 2.6 ppg is the best he managed.
Green, 6'10" 240 lbs. missed the last two season with ACL problems and
according to ESPN, has played 4 minutes all year. He's from Texas.

Keep grinding on the straw man argument, TP.
Nobody said to throw kids off the team. How the hell many times does it have
to be repeated?
As KB's post showed, it's not all warm and fuzzy as you'd like.
" And if a coach doesn't see a player performing, he's likely to want him to leave despite good grades and good off-court behavior".

[TruePoint]

Rod, I know you like arguing with me but I don't actually think we have much disagreement here. Seems more about how we want to phrase it. I'm only against tossing a kid who doesn't want to leave, and you seem to agree. I never said anything about warm and fuzzy.

[rodfromcranston]

Then, are we agreed; the traffic in
drugs will be permitted, but
controlled; and Don Corleone agrees
to give it protection in the East.

[ramster]

Lazare Andingono is the guy you're thinking of SPG.
Not a bad player. He was from Cameroon, as was Bitee,
and earlier, Andrew Wafula, back on the Elite 8 team.

No,
Wafula was from Uganda

Joe Mbang was from Cameroon

[rodfromcranston]

Idi Amin was also from Uganda.

[Billyboy78]

Any whispers about any of the players supposedly coming in?

[Keaney.Blue]

So Will, what's Baron's line to somebody he no longer wants, "You are no longer part of da process."?

Luckily I never got that speech! Although it came out later that they needed a roster spot and it came down to booting either Me or Hakim McCullar and they picked me based on potential.

And TP, I agree with what you're saying and I think that most coaches honor a scholarship if the kid is doing all the right things. But if a coach sees a prospect he really likes and he needs an open scholarship, I'm sure things can get ugly. As I've said, this is a business

[Running Ram]

Personally I feel like if a player wants to stay and is working hard at all aspects of what is asked, including remaining in high spirits, but has not lived up to his potential on the court, that is on the coaches/recruiters and the player should never be asked or pressured to leave. And I wouldn't think DH would be one to do that. What I do believe is that it differs from program/coach to program/coach.

I do think the honest sit down at the end of the season is necessary so everyone can stay on the same page, this should be done with tact and from a caring place, without knowing the man personally, I'd expect this would probably be the way DH handles it, honestly and with best intentions for all. I also think that some kids may be happy being a part of a real team of brothers even to the extent where they may be learning exactly what they need by not playing, if that makes any sense.

[SGreenwell]

So Will, what's Baron's line to somebody he no longer wants, "You are no longer part of da process."?

Luckily I never got that speech! Although it came out later that they needed a roster spot and it came down to booting either Me or Hakim McCullar and they picked me based on potential.

Behrens, who was a walk-on who wanted a full scholarship, said he was booted with the line, "I want an NCAA championship winning team, and you're not a championship caliber player," roughly. However, he was also suing the university at the time, and obviously wasn't the most trustworthy narrator as a result. I believe the suit was thrown out eventually - not sure - and he ended up at a D2 school.

[RhowdyRam02]

I know we've discussed this in the past, but I always heard that line was said to Chris Holm before he went up to Vermont.

[SGreenwell]

I know we've discussed this in the past, but I always heard that line was said to Chris Holm before he went up to Vermont.

I think it was Behrens, because it was a story I wrote for the Cigar way back when. But god, you could be right, since it's a decade ago at this point and my memory is foggy. The Cigar's website has switched hands twice since then, so I can't find it in the archive either.

[ramster]

I remember it being Behrens too

Holm was during the Jon Clark era - he transferred to Vermont, but I never thought much of either of these two guys, especially the cemented into the Starting Line up from Day 1

[eli#10]

Chris Holm had a good game against PeeCee one year that we won at home. Without his contributions I do not think we win that game. Jon Clark was in way over his head in D 1 basketball.

[PeterRamTime]

Chris Holm was like all American East. Was a beast at Vermont. And we kept Clark instead.

[bressler3south]

I know we've discussed this in the past, but I always heard that line was said to Chris Holm before he went up to Vermont.

I think it was Behrens, because it was a story I wrote for the Cigar way back when. But god, you could be right, since it's a decade ago at this point and my memory is foggy. The Cigar's website has switched hands twice since then, so I can't find it in the archive either.

The line was originally used on Dustin Halllenga, of all people, who had incurred the wrath of El Moustachio.

[bigappleram]

I thought it was Behrens too, there was a poster who had that line as his signature?

Can we never refer to Chris Holm as a beast. I assume comic sans on that? They both were not A10 talent, one a bit more than the other.

[rodfromcranston]

All the players Baron clashed with, ran off, or
had in his dog house, in his time here.
Helenga was a blood and guts player, who was a little different
for Sgt. Slaughter.
He had problems with Carlton Wiley, who was a good player, in his first year.
Holm, who was fundamentally a sound player, who could at least walk and chew
gum at the same time.
Behrens.
Scott Hazelton
Will Daniels
Steve Mejia
Hakeem Richmond
Jamal Wilson
I'm sure I've left out a few, too.

[Running Ram]

its amazing to think of how many players he that to, that is to say how many players he "r-u-n-o-f-t". It's like almost one per recruiting class. I guess there's two sides to every story right? each of those players has their one side and he has like a dozen of them, I don't get how he didn't get a rep for that kind of thing.

[Running Ram]

of that list Wilson and Hazelton bother me the most. I may be wrong but to me, I feel like those two got the biggest screw job from that guy.

[UCH21377]

Wilson never had a chance, for whatever reason. Always in the doghouse. Too bad the kid had some game.

[bigappleram]

Never saw it in Hazelton, I know others did. But definitely agree with Wilson. He scored 40 in a game, he could play no matter how you look at it. Buried on the bench and then 1 tumultuous season.

[Seawrightspostgame]

I think if Wilson played earlier, those teams would have been better.

Before he was the scorer, he was a great perimeter defender and fearless in taking it to the basket.

Those early years they could have used that. Teams need multiple guys that can carry the torch even if it is for only 3-4 minutes a game. Bring him in and he locks a guy down, scores 8. Suddenly Delroy was forgotten and he could assert himself.

I think Jarvis G is going to do amazing things for EC. If the D has to worry about him knocking down a shot or getting in the lane everyone else is that much better. EC of course being the most talented will benefit. I love the EC/Hassan Martin pick and roll tandem. It ends up in a Hassan dunk 85% of the time.

[bigappleram]

Seawright, I too like the EC - Hassan pick n roll, but I only wish 85% of the time Hassan saw the ball more. I agree when he does get it back the results are usually very good, but our guys need to become better passers in the off season and see the floor better.

[rodfromcranston]

Not sure seeing the floor is a teachable item.
People are good passers, because they see other things
besides their own shot opportunities.

[Iggy1979]

I see our bigs posting up, guards looking at them and then passing it around the perimeter. Dump it inside!

[runninrams5]

Syracuse has 2 players transferring today as F BJ Johnson and G Ron Patterson are leaving the Orange