Bill Koch and Projo

[Ramblinrose]

My newspaper experience ended with a route at age 13. But Eric Rueb suggesting that a big advertiser could dictate more URI coverage strikes me as unethical and violating a news/ad church-state separation.
I wouldn't want an advertiser to influence coverage of the State House, either,i .e. treating politicians as sacred cows for fear of pising off some car dealer.
Here is the fact. PC gets more coverage because more people are PC fans. Maybe URI can change that with a consistent winning program. A decade-plus of Baron made the program a non-starter
As Al Davis said, just win, baby.

[theblueram]

That's the point being made Reub. The game was last night, we all know the score. Tell us something we don't know. I'm not a journalist, but I could watch the game and spit out an article on what I saw. Takes about no effort at all. Tell us why the ref called a foul everyone hated. Go fucking interview him. Tell us how Hassan felt when he smashed a blocked 3 that saved the game. You want journalism, that's journalism. Don't just regurgitate what I saw on TV the night before. And that is what newspapers have become. Plagiarized internet snippets and book reports on tv programs we've already seen.

[EricRueb]

young readers (25-40) aren't interested in the news.

It was hard to pick just one part of that disaster of a post, but I decided to go with this one. You could not possibly be more wrong if you tried. Now, if you want to say young readers aren't interested in getting the news a day late in a newspaper, then you would be on to something.

Adam, I thought I was implying newspapers, but I didn't make it clear enough. Apologies. What I should have said is young readers don't have interest in paying for newspapers for exactly the reasons you state, but most to not want to pay for online access to the information either. They expect it for free because it's always been available.

Art - the math was probably off, but the hyperbole rings true. Customers complain, but how many times are those complaints right? I emailed ProJo's Pamela Cotter the other day about Blizzard coverage. I asked why they'd go with a generic hashtag instead of a locally based one. I thought a locally based one - BlizzardRI or something - would make it easier for readers to find information. She explained why they chose the hashtag they did and while I still think I was right - I always do - her explanation was terrific and as a customer it made me feel like I was right.

TP - Your idea is great on paper, but financially it doesn't work unless you find a bunch of 20-somethings willing to work for nothing. When I started at the Times, we had four full-timers and I had time to do features. Then it was three. Still had some time. Then it was two and features were tougher to find the time for. A good, in-depth feature takes a ton of time in research and reporting and nobody in newspapers thinks they're worth the investment.

What would be the ideal coverage that would satisfy this fan base? Daily stories with multiple blog posts per day done by a professional reporter? OK, you have to pay someone to maintain a website and a professional reporter. You need, minimum, 100K to pay them to cover salary and costs. The information is free, but gathering it isn't and that's the problem. That's why I tend to give newspapers and media the benefit of the doubt.

[EricRueb]

I am in my 20's and also interested in the news. The issue with the paper is that I turn on the news in the morning, listen to the radio, check twitter, this board.....by the time I have the paper in my hands it is old news. I feel like this is one of many reasons why the projo is struggling.

Not trying to start a fight, but do you pay for news? That's the issue at hand.

My newspaper experience ended with a route at age 13. But Eric Rueb suggesting that a big advertiser could dictate more URI coverage strikes me as unethical and violating a news/ad church-state separation.
I wouldn't want an advertiser to influence coverage of the State House, either,i .e. treating politicians as sacred cows for fear of pising off some car dealer.
Here is the fact. PC gets more coverage because more people are PC fans. Maybe URI can change that with a consistent winning program. A decade-plus of Baron made the program a non-starter
As Al Davis said, just win, baby.

Ramblin, you're right - it's a huge ethical thing. It happens. Depending on who you talk to, it's one of the reasons I'm not working.
You're also right about the winning.

That's the point being made Reub. The game was last night, we all know the score. Tell us something we don't know. I'm not a journalist, but I could watch the game and spit out an article on what I saw. Takes about no effort at all. Tell us why the ref called a foul everyone hated. Go fucking interview him. Tell us how Hassan felt when he smashed a blocked 3 that saved the game. You want journalism, that's journalism. Don't just regurgitate what I saw on TV the night before. And that is what newspapers have become. Plagiarized internet snippets and book reports on tv programs we've already seen.

Blueram, it takes a hell of a lot of effort to write a good game story. Being on deadline is torture, but it's a love/hate part of the business. By the time the pressers ended, it'd be near 9:30. My deadline was 10:30, so now it was trying to write as much as possible and have it all make sense. I covered Robert Morris-PC for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It went OT. By the time the presser was done I had 17 minutes to send a 700 word story. It came out damn good and i was proud of that. It's extremely condesending to say it takes no effort or anybody could do it.
I can't speak to the examples you're giving because I wasn't there, but if you're good, you do those things, but they're not always as easy as you make them see.
What do you want to read about this program? I'm asking because I'm genuinely interested.

[bressler3south]

And Bressler, it's not a public job. If you actually worked at a newspaper - and not knowing who you are, I won't say you haven't either - you know that the public doesn't dictate coverage. The news is supposed to, but unfortunately advertisers have more power than any average joe who reads the paper with his morning coffee.
BigApple - I have no idea what kind of agenda I would have. BK is a friend and I've shared a media room with the rest of the local guys, but if they screwed something up I'm not the kind of person to not point it out.

Rueb, you are naive when you insist that it's not a public job. A newspaper is the most public of institutions, and the right to a free press guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment proves that the public's best interests are served by a free, unregulated press. Also, it is our right to freely criticize any public institution, including the press, when it is perceived to have undermined that trust or has failed to live up to the public's perceived standards.
Also, if one were to assume that advertising solely drives "what's what" with URI, and the fear of pulling ad revenues, to wit: CVS = Former President and CEO, Tom Ryan; Alex and Ani = Carolyn Rafaelian. Both are URI graduates. So, where was all the "pull" to fix things that readers and fans of URI have been inquiring and then aggressively complaining about since you were still wearing a diaper.
That's how long this thing has been going on.
I'll give you one more: One Saturday night, the slot editor was someone who graduated from Brown, and Brown beat Cornell, a nothing game -- and guess where the Brown story landed? Right above the fold, great big headline, great big photo. Oh, yeah: both PC and URI had games with national implications. PC got the bottom right below the fold, URI buried on page 7.
Please don't tell me about how it works.
Also, if you and your cohorts at the Times couldn't handle the high school slate, you need to find a different career. (By-the-way, I don't believe that story for a second, because you get it done, and done right. Any newspaper-person knows that.)

[Andrew]

Following up on what Adam said, newspapers should redefine their niche. They aren't going to be the place to break run of the mill, day-to-day news scoops. The internet just kills them on that. But they do (or should) have a staff of smart professional writers. So take more of a weekly/monthly magazine approach and try to (1) break major stories that have to be investigated and put together over a long period and (2) provide in-depth analysis of news events, and try to be specific to the geographical footprint of your readership in both respects. Be an insightful, long form outlet. But these blurbs and snippets of daily fluff are no longer useful to anyone. There are way too many placed provided that stuff quickly and for free.

Web services like http://www.longreads.com already do this, so there's a spot for it. A collection of localized longform pieces doesn't currently exist (that I know of, anyway).

[bigappleram]

The revenue model of two major industries was most impacted by technology, not b/c it hasn't impacted almost every industry, but because those two industries failed to innovate with a changing consumer and instead blamed the consumer and created "pay walls" to content that no one was willing to accept. The Music business and the Print News business. There is a huge appetite for both, more than ever, and dozens of outlets profiting from it (Pandora, Spotify, Vevo, YouTube - small sample of music companies making money) except the traditional old guard, the record labels and publishing companies. Why is that? because the powers that be in the music industry, similar to the print industry, blame the consumer instead of listen to the consumer and serve them a product they want.
Failure to innovate, not "people 25-40" dont want the news, is what is hurting your industry. Basic law of marketing, fill a consumer need. Who needs the stats from the Projo when I had those on my phone 30 seconds after the game.

[Ramblinrose]

I believe young people crave news. But not from newspapers.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

A big part of the problem with the newspaper business has been corporate ownership. Corporations have typically overpaid for newspaper properties and then, to meet the debt-service obligations and stuff sufficient funds into the pockets of the top executives and investment banks, they cut costs by eliminating news staff.

However, the product is news that is sufficiently attractive that advertisers will pay to reach the people reading it. Producing news requires people, which costs money. Doing it well requires good people, which costs more money. Stripping staff means cheapening the product, which drives away readers, prompting advertisers to spend their money elsewhere. Yes, the newspaper business has been slow to adapt to the Internet, but readers and advertisers will pay for a good product.

If all a company had to do to increase its profits was to cheapen its product, GM would have been making three-wheeled Chevrolets years ago.

Starting back in the 1980s, publishers forced editors to surrender their news judgment to the gods of reader surveys. Countless reader surveys have shown readers want shorter stories, lighter stories, more "good news," more celebrity news etc. (Don't say that's why USA Today has the largest circulation in the country. It has the largest because hotel chains buy hundreds of thousands of copies to give away to their guests.) If supermarkets were run the same way, you'd have aisles of ice cream and frozen pizza and Doritos and Twinkies, and the produce section would be crammed into a corner in the back of the store. People know they need their broccoli, but is it their preference?

[TruePoint]

Red, you're right and you could apply the same argument to a number of industries. I do a fair amount of work with private equity and venture capital, and in many instances they are legitimately able to use expertise and an infusion of cash to trim the fat of bloated companies and turn doomed businesses into profitable ones. But in many other instances they take profitable companies and turn them into picked-over carcasses or post-chop shop Hondas. It is making rich people really REALLY rich (like unfathomably and needlessly rich) but it is really damaging our collective long term economic potential.

[Running Ram]

TP, so, you're saying this is another way the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer...sums up 'civilized' society pretty well. The great 'middle-class' experiment is over, the elite didn't care for it and so it goes away, I'm not complaining though, I'm very grateful for many of the finer aspects of life we are able to enjoy, I'm like Andy Dufresne they can't take my music away from me.

[Taylor Swift]

My Twitter feed has everything from SC Independent all the way to BBC World News. If I do buy a local paper, it is either the SC Independent or the Narragansett Times (mostly to read the Police Beat. )

Projo articles in the first few sections are usually regurgitated from Washington Post, NY Times, Reuters, etc.. With the exception of local sports, which is why there is a demographic for this.

[Ramblinrose]

I think Koch does well with proscribed limitations. I think there could be more features on players. He is replacing both Paul Kenyon and Carolyn Thornton. Not ideal.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Koch only does what they let him do.

[Billyboy78]

Koch only does what they let him do.

That was my point. It's his crappy paper that holds him back.

[bressler3south]

Koch only does what they let him do.

That was my point. It's his crappy paper that holds him back.

Stop criticizing the paper, be constructive…Wah, wah, wah!!!!!

[ramster]

Agree,
If you don't like the PROJO don't read it, don't buy it.
I like the PROJO, I like Bill Reynold's, Kevin Mac, Bill Koch....I also like Carolyn Thornton.
Buy the Boston Globe or Herald and see how many articles there will be about Boston College, University, UMASS, harvard, Northeastern, etc - very very few and if they are there they are small. PROJO is like a small town paper in a small state - URI gets plenty of attention as compared to any school in Massachusetts.
Newspapers are dying - nobody can argue that - so enjoy the PROJO while it is still around - 5 years from now it just might not be - and is certainly true in paper form.

[Obadiah]

ramster is correct in his overview, at least regarding the major newspaper coverage. Try and find a good article about the recent Fordham game in a NYC newspaper. You can't. You can test this in every game we play when you visit the rivals' newspaper to read a story of the game to get a different viewpoint. For example, when Charlotte was in the league, the coverage of their games was excellent. Saint Louis also gets excellent coverage, as does Dayton. St. Bona gets good coverage in the Olean newspaper, but not the Buffalo newspaper. The Philly schools get good coverage but not at the Saint Louis level. Duquesne coverage is decent. The Richmond schools get good coverage. Davidson coverage is just OK. GW coverage is good, but not special. Ditto for GMU. Mass gets good coverage in Springfield paper, but not the Globe. You see this same effect among our OOC opponents. Detroit gets bad coverage in Detroit, for example.

What we see in print journalism is also true for TV coverage. URI has one of the best local TV packages in the conference. VCU gets better national coverage because if the level of their program. So URI fans cannot complain when all things are considered.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

ramster is correct in his overview, at least regarding the major newspaper coverage. Try and find a good article about the recent Fordham game in a NYC newspaper. You can't. You can test this in every game we play when you visit the rivals' newspaper to read a story of the game to get a different viewpoint. For example, when Charlotte was in the league, the coverage of their games was excellent. Saint Louis also gets excellent coverage, as does Dayton. St. Bona gets good coverage in the Olean newspaper, but not the Buffalo newspaper. The Philly schools get good coverage but not at the Saint Louis level. Duquesne coverage is decent. The Richmond schools get good coverage. Davidson coverage is just OK. GW coverage is good, but not special. Ditto for GMU. Mass gets good coverage in Springfield paper, but not the Globe. You see this same effect among our OOC opponents. Detroit gets bad coverage in Detroit, for example.

What we see in print journalism is also true for TV coverage. URI has one of the best local TV packages in the conference. VCU gets better national coverage because if the level of their program. So URI fans cannot complain when all things are considered.

For starters, nobody in New York gives a rat's @ss about Fordham for several reasons, not the least of which is Fordham hasn't been relevant since Tan-o-rama Tom Penders was the coach 30 years ago. Saint Louis gets good coverage, but Saint Louis has also been winning for the last few years. What has Detroit done that would draw a fraction of the interest that Michigan and Michigan State get?

The Globe and the Herald have always given college sports coverage that was adequate at best, but there's not nearly the interest in colleges as the local pro teams. You don't have that situation in Rhode Island, where allegiances are split between the Pinstriped Automatons and the Red Sox and the football Giants and Patriots, so I've never understood the snobbery with which the Providence College Journal treats URI.

[SGreenwell]

Koch only does what they let him do.

That was my point. It's his crappy paper that holds him back.

To be clear about one thing, Koch is not interested in just college basketball. When he got the job, yes, he did mention to me that URI was going to be his main beat. However, he was also excited about the opportunity to cover the RIHS Division I Super Bowl, and the state basketball title games, and the state title baseball games at McCoy.

[bressler3south]

Simple: Boston and New York are not college sports towns. Boston is a College Hockey Town. Boston Is A Hockey Town. Even when the Celtics won 912 consecutive championships during the Sixties, the Bruins outdrew them -- and they stunk til you know who arrived….
New York newspapers quit really covering college teams when the CCNY Scandals hit the fan, and then the Jack Molinas College Fixing Scandals of 1960-2 killed any second chances.
Also, during that time period, pro sports were second fiddle.
Rhode Island became enamored with PC because of its inferiority complex: the closest to a pro team in the Mid-Sixties as it could get.
It's weird, but Rhode Islanders identify more with the word "Providence" than they do with "Rhode Island."
Kingston? First thought back then isn't URI, but probably "The Kingston Trio."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9Lsd6 ... freload=10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLfRtK0 ... freload=10

A BRESSLER PRODUCTION

IN ASSOCIATION WITH EMOTICON ENTERPRISES

A SUBSIDIARY OF THE TIME TUNNEL LLC

[Ramblinrose]

PC's popularity is generational in RI. The 1961 NIT was a huge deal at the time. Jimmy Walker, Joe Mullaney, Gavitt, Ernie and Marvin, two Final Fours, Pitino, a bubch of players in the NBA, the Hall of Fame coaches, Catholic school in a Catholic state. Not hard to explain the popularity.

[Ramulous]

There were also ethnic reasons for the friars popularity among many RIers and the political establishment........

[Ramblinrose]

A combination of things. Chris Clark getting the games on radio and then TV helped. It was a ritual for some families to get together, have dinner and watch the games on Saturday nights. Of course PC eventually dumped Chris Clark.

[bressler3south]

Of course PC eventually dumped Chris Clark.

Well, his Pre-Norm public imbibitations didn't do him any good…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81QluTS ... freload=10

A BRESSLER PRODUCTION

IN ASSOCIATION WITH EMOTICON ENTERPRISES

A SUBSIDIARY OF FALLING OFF OF BAR-STOOLS LLC

[rodfromcranston]

Chris Clark was a nice man. I used to talk to him all the time,
back in the 70's, before PC canned him.
Ramulous, the first Italian player I can recall at PC was Vic Colluci.
Hardly a big star. Ernie D came later, but their popularity was
cemented long before that, with the NIT winners and the
Walker, Westbrook, Riordan team that was 24-2,
and went deep in the NCAAs.
Unless you meant the Irish guys like Egan and Ernst.
Or Polish guys like Bob Kovalski, Tony Koski and Yasek Duda.

[ramster]

Koch only does what they let him do.

That was my point. It's his crappy paper that holds him back.

Then he should not work for that paper if he feels that way.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

I think he's confusing "ethnic" with "religious." with Pee-C being a Catholic school (setting aside for the moment the degree to which Pee-C ignores its Catholic values) in the most heavily Catholic state.

[seanmc94]

You're correct. PC should be more charitable. Winning 5 straight isn't very Christian.

[Ramblinrose]

URI's heyday came in the 1940s when 20 people owned TVs. PC emerged in the 1960s TV boom.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

You're correct. PC should be more charitable. Winning 5 straight isn't very Christian.

For starters, they seemed to forget the first two of the Ten Commandments when they let Shammgod Wells rename himself.

[Ramulous]

I'm sticking with ethnic....from administration to coaches to players to alums....

[seanmc94]

You're correct. PC should be more charitable. Winning 5 straight isn't very Christian.

For starters, they seemed to forget the first two of the Ten Commandments when they let Shammgod Wells rename himself.

Now that's some funny stuff. FYI, God Shammgod changed his name before enrolling. I think most colleges have bigger fish to fry than what players want to be called.

[Ramblinrose]

How was PC supposed to stop a student's name change?

[bigappleram]

I mean, I think it was a joke.

[Ramblinrose]

Ramster. Has anyone heard Koch complaining? I'm sure he got a nice pay boost. Donaldson and Reynolds will retire someday, maybe Bill can move up.

[bressler3south]

How was PC supposed to stop a student's name change?

God Shammgod????????????????????
That's a problem for Dominicans????????????
God, get real……….

[ramster]

Ramster. Has anyone heard Koch complaining? I'm sure he got a nice pay boost. Donaldson and Reynolds will retire someday, maybe Bill can move up.

Of course not, Koch is very happy at the Projo. He really wanted that position.
It's the many posters here that don't like the Projo.

[Seawrightspostgame]

With Jared Terrell's FOWA popping up on Projo's side thing that posts new stories, I wondered why Projo doesn't do lists of their own.

They could easily create a New England awards that are weekly, monthyly.. so on and so on.

I think they have this for High school right? if not they must.

People tune in for lists, especially if they have a horse in the race.

[bigappleram]

That would require innovation Seawright, why do that when they can just do Game recaps the same way they have since the Flintstone era.

[Billyboy78]

Fred was a pretty good rebounder, from what I've been told.

[rambone 78]

Yeah, but he threw up a lot of rocks...I mean bricks.......

[SGreenwell]

With Jared Terrell's FOWA popping up on Projo's side thing that posts new stories, I wondered why Projo doesn't do lists of their own.

They could easily create a New England awards that are weekly, monthyly.. so on and so on.

I think they have this for High school right? if not they must.

People tune in for lists, especially if they have a horse in the race.

Such a list would be lacking in credibility, since it's not like they're checking out Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Maine college basketball games all that often. For similar reasons, The Independent doesn't do stuff like All-Area teams, because usually it opens the door far more to angry "what about my kid???" arguments, as opposed to fostering good discussion.

[Rhody72]

Now that PC and Syracuse are not in the same conference, I don't think KMac no longer has any loyalty to the Big East and PC.

[Ramblinrose]

The Projo would be selecting players from the four D-1 schools. They don't cover the rest of New England.

[Billyboy78]

Looks like Koch is doing a high school game today. I hope the projo has somebody covering a game in which we have a chance to be in first place at the end of the day.

[ATPTourFan]

Sure, Projo's lack of flexibility in these pre-planned travel arrangements for their staff is worth criticism. We've covered this before here.

[rambone 78]

Let's see: A high school game takes precedence over a game involving our State U. playing a good opponent on the road in a key game?

I know they didn't know all of this in advance, but c'mon, things can be changed. There's been 8 days since our last game, and everyone knows what's at stake.

I call bullshit.

[theblueram]

I call bullshit on the listing of conference standings in the projo. They have everything updated for the A10 except the Dayton-GW game. Thus they listed us as being in 3rd place. All games from yesterday are reflected in the standings, but not fridays game.

[ATPTourFan]

That is bullshit. Fact checkers are expensive.