Bill Koch and Projo

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

I don't think it's anybody here but maybe they read the board. Can we as fans stop talking shit to Koch and KMac on twitter for the URI coverage? Koch is doing the best job he can and doesn't have the same independence as at SC. I saw people complaining about Koch's lack of tweets about the game and Iverson when he tweeted about both. Also saw someone taking a shot at KMac for not tweeting it.

Some people need to start acting grown up on twitter and just enjoy the coverage and the info from Koch

Ram1019 · Unread post by **Ram1019** » 9 years ago

Bill Koch is a great guy and great reporter. Kmac doesn't bother me like he bothers other people here.

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 9 years ago

The Projo is irrelevant in 2015, I don't know why so many posters get caught up in ripping it.

Koch is a good journalist, he doesn't deserve any of the hate he gets.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 9 years ago

I am not on Twitter but I totally diasagree. People should be free to criticize the Providence Journal if they see fit. I am a paying customer and I have every right to speak out on the paper's coverage if I don't like it. Other customers have this right as well. Bill Koch and Kevin McNamara work for the paper's paying customers.

Furthermore, I also feel that if URI fans were not vocal about coverage (or the lack there of), the Projo would give even less attention to URI athletics.

Section104 · Unread post by **Section104** » 9 years ago

I think Koch is good, but somewhat limited in his Rhody coverage now that he's with Projo and covering high school sports, Patriots, etc. KMac on the other hand is complete garbage and a Big East homer.

Screw the projo and the bullshit they print and the agenda they follow.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

KMac is not "complete garbage".
He knows more about basketball than anyone in the
local media, with the possible exception of Bill Reynolds.
Is he a Big East shill? You bet.
Does he look down on us, generally? Ditto.
He does his homework for the most part. Sometimes his absolutes get in the way of his objectivity.

Section104 · Unread post by **Section104** » 9 years ago

Rod, I'd agree he knows his basketball, but he's not solely a PC beat writer. He covers basketball in the state of Rhode Island and the fact he is a Big East shill that looks down on us is exactly why he's garbage.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

Not being a Twitterite, I could care less. Being a reader of papers, etc., I do care. Having worked in the Journal Sports Department and having seen what it's become, I do care. Being a Rhode Islander and watching a Pulitzer Prize-winning institution lose any collective memory, I do care.
Reading non-edited stories, non-fact-checked articles riddled with mistakes bugs me.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 9 years ago

It's almost sad that it's in this board's nature to bitch more than they celebrate - see every single game thread loss vs win.

Not to say that it's not cathartic after rough losses, but I never understood any Koch hate. He's a Rhody guy who got bumped up from the independent to bring a knowledgeable URI voice to the Projo. Everyone is quick to whine about rhody coverage - but Koch was tweeting about Iverson being on campus before 85% of this board knew who he was - with little to no fanfare in the way of retweets and replies.

Agree with Rod that Kmac may gobble PC/Big East knob - but you can't say he doesn't know anything about basketball. It's been said before on here, but really Rhody hasn't done anything of note in the grand scheme of things to warrant top billing in the local media over PC. They've been dancing, they've beaten us the past 5 years, they're in the conversation to dance again - we've had our opportunities and fallen short. It's clear we're getting closer - we're not there yet.

Koch is a big first step to bringing us to the spotlight, both locally and regionally, but you can't sit here and complain when he's actually doing a yeoman's job covering this team and you're just missing it.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 9 years ago

Blue Man wrote:It's almost sad that it's in this board's nature to bitch more than they celebrate - see every single game thread loss vs win.

Not to say that it's not cathartic after rough losses, but I never understood any Koch hate. He's a Rhody guy who got bumped up from the independent to bring a knowledgeable URI voice to the Projo. Everyone is quick to whine about rhody coverage - but Koch was tweeting about Iverson being on campus before 85% of this board knew who he was - with little to no fanfare in the way of retweets and replies.

Agree with Rod that Kmac may gobble PC/Big East knob - but you can't say he doesn't know anything about basketball. It's been said before on here, but really Rhody hasn't done anything of note in the grand scheme of things to warrant top billing in the local media over PC. They've been dancing, they've beaten us the past 5 years, they're in the conversation to dance again - we've had our opportunities and fallen short. It's clear we're getting closer - we're not there yet.

Koch is a big first step to bringing us to the spotlight, both locally and regionally, but you can't sit here and complain when he's actually doing a yeoman's job covering this team and you're just missing it.

Yup.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

This fan exchanged barbs with KMac, and I will continue to when warranted. Have never said a word to or about koch, we are lucky to have him, along with Disano and the new guy at the Independent who is very good (Will). KMac is a BE shill who has made passive-aggressive remarks about the state school and A10 for far too long. I disagree that he knows a lot about the sport broadly, case in point was his ill-informed tweet yesterday belittling Coach K's 1,000th win. He knows a lot about the BE, that's it.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Anyone who gets on Koch's case doesn't get it. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

CTRamfan · Unread post by **CTRamfan** » 9 years ago

Well said everyone.
..................all of the above mentioned reporters do their jobs well.
..................The constant maligning projo, then whining about coverage doesn't add up for me.
..................Like it or not this year, so far, PC is the big story.
..................Maybe that will change with more success on our part..

Andrew · Unread post by **Andrew** » 9 years ago

This is what BAR was referencing. Solid hot take here:

I think generally speaking, PC has done more to earn coverage in the last twenty or so years, but it doesn't mean that URI should be forgotten, either. I also feel that quite a few on this board take innocuous things Projo says and treats them as huge slights to URI. Not pointing out anyone in particular, just a general feeling. I also think that the projo is nearly irrelevant, so maybe it's a generational thing.

I do enjoy what Koch, Geoghegan, DiSano, and the like bring to the table - there's no shortage of quality URI and A10 coverage these days. Maybe we've finally started to earn it.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

fwiw, i was bored on a 3 hr train ride after a thrilling win. a lethal cocktail.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

My post about Koch covering the tiddlywinks tournament was a joke. OK, it wasn't a very good one. I like Bill Koch and his work. I know the projo has cut back and somebody has to cover high school sports. That's fine. I love high school sports too. It just so happens that the URI beat writer gets the assignment. I don't remember KMAC covering high school sports. It is what it is. I appreciate Bill Koch and enjoy his articles. I admit I'm not a big fan of the projo or KMAC.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 9 years ago

CTRamfan wrote:Well said everyone.
..................all of the above mentioned reporters do their jobs well.
..................The constant maligning projo, then whining about coverage doesn't add up for me.
..................Like it or not this year, so far, PC is the big story.
..................Maybe that will change with more success on our part..

This about sums it up for me, too.

PeterRamTime · Unread post by **PeterRamTime** » 9 years ago

When the hell was somebody bashing Koch?
Doesn't make sense.
We have plenty of coverage out there these days.
We will earn our respect we want in the form of a Hass block. In time.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

Koch does a nice job. He's not going to have the freedom he had at a weekly paper. URI will get more coverage if it wins and gathers more than 6,000 fans more than twice a season.
You can't drop off the radar a decade at a time.
If you base it on this board, you'd think the state was clamoring for URI hoops.
Sad truth. The Projo gives URI basketball more coverage than most readers care about. And increasing the coverage won't make the state love the team or the school. Neither is very popular in Rhode Island.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 9 years ago

Agree 100% with KMac about coach K. I would like to know when the Dukies last played a true road game and how many they played in the last 10 years. I was quite happy when they lost to Lehigh and Mercer in the NCAA recently.

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 9 years ago

eli#10 wrote:Agree 100% with KMac about coach K. I would like to know when the Dukies last played a true road game and how many they played in the last 10 years. I was quite happy when they lost to Lehigh and Mercer in the NCAA recently.

I always love it when Duke loses, especially to smalltime programs.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

I once admired Coack K. But not anymore.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

eli#10 wrote:Agree 100% with KMac about coach K. I would like to know when the Dukies last played a true road game and how many they played in the last 10 years. I was quite happy when they lost to Lehigh and Mercer in the NCAA recently.

Ummmm, do they play just home games in the ACC?
(And sure, I'm thrilled when they lose, too.)
McNamara's "tweet" reeks of arrogance, especially from someone who:
a) married into Terry Murray's fortune, and wasn't half-as-arrogant/privileged-as-he-believed-he-should-be 20 years ago;
b) would give his left nut to be Jim Boeheim's "Real Best Buddy," and doesn't apply the same standards to "The Sage of Syracuse";
c) and loves Rick Barnes, his "Second Best Buddy," who annually squanders about as much talent as a coach ever has.
d) And the same should apply to Calipari, Roy Williams, Tom Izzo, Sean Miller, et al.,
The worst must've been John Wooden -- whose supporting casts around Alcindor (Abdul-Jabbar) and Walton weren't the most talented players in the country.
It's sort of like saying, "Derek Jeter only got 3,000 hits because he played for the Yankees."
Yeah, well he's the only Yankee ever to attain 3,000-plus hits…..
Then, one would deduce that Morgan Wooten and Bob Hurley Sr., also fall into the same category.
Let's go to Springfield and remove the plaques…...

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 9 years ago

Preach on, bressler. Coach K is a legend and deservedly so. Love that guy.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Exactly Bressler, it was an ill-informed opinion by KMac and then he had the gall to call me ignorant when I asked why he hadn't posted anything about the Iverson transfer. Born on third thinks he hit a triple.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

Yup, I'm with you Bress. And I also love it when they lose but if you don't respect Coach K you don't know shit about this thing we call D1 men's college basketball. Anyone remember the season in which Coach K had his medical situation? Duke sputtered along without him, when he came back mid-season he proved to be a better coach from a wheelchair with a recovering heart than 99.9% of coaches. KMac SUCKS.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 9 years ago

My BAD--I meant to refer to true road games in his NON-CONFERENCE schedule. Duke rarely really recruits anyone--they select more than recruit.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

Running Ram wrote:Yup, I'm with you Bress. And I also love it when they lose but if you don't respect Coach K you don't know shit about this thing we call D1 men's college basketball. Anyone remember the season in which Coach K had his medical situation? Duke sputtered along without him, when he came back mid-season he proved to be a better coach from a wheelchair with a recovering heart than 99.9% of coaches. KMac SUCKS.

Yeah, but he'd demand to use your knees.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

There was a time when his players stayed three years at least. Now getting one and dones

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Hurley, Grant Hill, Thomas Hill, Brickey, Billy King, Quin Snyder, Danny Ferry, Laettner, Bilas, Wojo, Dawkins, and more - all 4 year players. That is where Coach K built his legacy, only recently (last 10 years) as the entire game has changed has he attracted more 1-3 year guys.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 9 years ago

Krzyzsewski's greatest accomplishment has been to intimidate officials to the point where he gets 99 percent of the calls in every game. I could win 1,000 games if my players knew they could get away with murder every night.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 9 years ago

The guy won 1000 games because he had better players. Well, yeah, but he recruited them and he built the Duke program so players want to go there. Should Cooley not get credit for rebuilding PC because he did it with better players? Makes no sense.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

John Wooden is a bum because he needed perhaps the best and second best centers in college basketball history to win a slew of titles. It was a dumb comment, he got called on it.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Coach K had a .553 winning percentage at Army.
Tell us how easy that must have been.
He went to an NIT in 1978, when the NIT meant something.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote:Krzyzsewski's greatest accomplishment has been to intimidate officials to the point where he gets 99 percent of the calls in every game. I could win 1,000 games if my players knew they could get away with murder every night.

99% ???

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:Hurley, Grant Hill, Thomas Hill, Brickey, Billy King, Quin Snyder, Danny Ferry, Laettner, Bilas, Wojo, Dawkins, and more - all 4 year players. That is where Coach K built his legacy, only recently (last 10 years) as the entire game has changed has he attracted more 1-3 year guys.

Cherokee Parks!!!

EricRueb · Unread post by **EricRueb** » 9 years ago

It's very humorous reading people who don't work in newspapers gripe about how newspapers should work.
How would any one of us felt if someone walked into our place of work and said "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it."
If you really wanted to improve content in ProJo, every one of you would call the advertising department and take out ads to run in the sports section. That would increase the amount of pages, which would require more inches of space, which would require more content.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

The ref intimidation comes from mentor Robert Montgomery Knight.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 9 years ago

EricRueb wrote:It's very humorous reading people who don't work in newspapers gripe about how newspapers should work.
How would any one of us felt if someone walked into our place of work and said "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it."
If you really wanted to improve content in ProJo, every one of you would call the advertising department and take out ads to run in the sports section. That would increase the amount of pages, which would require more inches of space, which would require more content.

This is the oddest take on customer feedback I've ever seen.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 9 years ago

EricRueb wrote:It's very humorous reading people who don't work in newspapers gripe about how newspapers should work.
How would any one of us felt if someone walked into our place of work and said "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it."
If you really wanted to improve content in ProJo, every one of you would call the advertising department and take out ads to run in the sports section. That would increase the amount of pages, which would require more inches of space, which would require more content.

Yeah this is pretty strange. So if somebody is doing a bad job, in any job or circumstance, it should just continue on forever without anybody ever saying anything just because it's their place of work and nobody else can criticize it?

I know you are trying to defend your industry, but just because it might hurt someones feelings doesn't mean anybody is above criticism.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

EricRueb wrote:It's very humorous reading people who don't work in newspapers gripe about how newspapers should work.
How would any one of us felt if someone walked into our place of work and said "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it."
If you really wanted to improve content in ProJo, every one of you would call the advertising department and take out ads to run in the sports section. That would increase the amount of pages, which would require more inches of space, which would require more content.

No kidding, Rueby…..Tell me, how many "line ads" would create "X-Pages of content -- or -- EVEN ONE PAGE OF CONTENT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
How many idiots from KeaneyBlue does it take to buy full-page ads seven days a week year-round to leverage a "URI writer" to the Sports' staff?
This isn't the Ponagansett High School Patriot-Ledger you're talking about.
It's not the Providence Journal or The Evening Bulletin of 30 or 40 years ago, when there were as many people on the Advertising staff as there were staff writers at 40 Fountain Street.
The Journal has been stripped, re-stripped, retro-restripped, and retro-retro-restripped twice-over during the last 15 years by buyers/sellers and buyers and sellers and the newest buyers.
There are lay-offs literally today that have absolutely nothing to do with anything but stripping the Journal to a barely functional "paper/media platform," which will be sold again.
Do you realize that the so-called "copy desk" at the Journal is run from another state and there are but a handful of "desk staff" left? Layout is done out-of-town.
So, yeah, I'll tell you and anyone else about working for a newspaper -- the one I'm criticizing is the one I know of FIRST-HAND AND GET UPDATES DAILY!!!!
If you work in a public job and "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it," well, gee-whiz, pal, guess effin' what -- YOU'RE FAIR GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you think teachers, police, firefighters, a state clerk at DMV who is busting ass, et al., want to hear what a "terrible job" they're doing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
NO, THEY DON'T!!!!! BUT IT COMES WITH THE TERRITORY, SO PUT ON YOUR EFFIN' BIG-BOY PANTS AND YOU BUY ADS AND THEN YOU'LL BE ABLE TO GET A FULL-TIME JOB AT THE JOURNAL IN THE SPORTS DEPARTMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are a nitwit of the first-degee.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

BFC wrote:
EricRueb wrote:It's very humorous reading people who don't work in newspapers gripe about how newspapers should work.
How would any one of us felt if someone walked into our place of work and said "you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it."
If you really wanted to improve content in ProJo, every one of you would call the advertising department and take out ads to run in the sports section. That would increase the amount of pages, which would require more inches of space, which would require more content.
This is the oddest take on customer feedback I've ever seen.

I thought it kind of a weird take on it too, so now we have to buy ad's to have an opinion on the quality of the content in the blow jo, I don't think so. And to be clear, everyone that has purchased or used a product or service gets the right to their opinion on how well those that are providing the product/service are doing, it is called feedback and the most telling feedback the blow jo is getting is it's continual plummeting circulation. I don't work at a car wash, but I have an opinion about the basic services I expect and if they are not met, I'll state my gripe to the offending provider(s). The more I think about this post the more silly it gets, sorry ERueb, I'm not trying to attack, but seriously the blow jo has no business receiving more advertisers, the product stinks and its not getting better, why on earth would a business person with any marketing savvy at all purchase anything to be placed in that rag but maybe an obit, its the first section 80% of the clients go to, probably because the landscape of the subscriber-ship is growing older and older.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

So we should purchase ads because Kevin McNamara knows squat about college hoops besides the Big East? Good feedback. While I dont work in newspapers I do work in marketing, and here is some advice, that was bad marketing for whatever your agenda was in making that comment.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:So we should purchase ads because Kevin McNamara knows squat about college hoops besides the Big East? Good feedback. While I dont work in newspapers I do work in marketing, and here is some advice, that was bad marketing for whatever your agenda was in making that comment.

Here, send him some tips…..

https://twitter.com/ericrueb

P.S. I think he's the one in the…..Then again, what's the difference?
P.P.S. At least he'll give you some decent advice about food in the snow…..

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 9 years ago

"you're doing a terrible job and this is how you should be doing it." ......so said the first 5 of my wives......

EricRueb · Unread post by **EricRueb** » 9 years ago

Running Ram - Circulation isn't dropping because of the product. It's because subscribers are dying (literally), most part-time readers of the news stopped subscribing and read online and young readers (25-40) aren't interested in the news.
Advertisers have more of a say than subscribers. If you write a story and a subscriber complains, a reporter might get asked what happened. If an advertiser complains about a story? Writers get fired. Trust me. That wouldn't happen at ProJo, but if a major advertiser said "hey, I'm disappointed in your URI coverage" the ProJo would do what it could to appease them. Run through the ads - which aren't many - in the paper and I'd bet you find more companies with PC connections than URI ones.

My bigger point was more of this: Stop being lazy with criticism. Don't say "X needs to be done." Say "X needs to be done and here's how it could be done." Despite what you think, the customer isn't always right. In fact, 99 percent of the time the customer is a babbling idiot. Think about whatever you do - how many times do people complain about how your job is done and want you to do it the way that fits what they want?

There are 40-plus high schools in this state. ProJo has BK and Gillooly covering them, which is insane. When I was at the Times, we had two guys for seven schools and it was impossible. There are a variety of things required to put a paper or stories together that readers don't see. Going to a URI game is more than showing up and writing a story. So let's get educated before we start throwing shots.

With all the complaining going on here, has anyone tracked how many URI stories have appeared in the paper vs. PC? Or are you just assuming PC gets more coverage? Have you factored in BK's hire so close to the season after schedules had already been mapped out?
There are dozens of reasons why you think URI hasn't gotten the coverage it deserves other than "they're PC homers." In fact, the only URI slight they've had all year was not putting URI front and center when they beat Nebraska and running a Patriots' preview instead. Other than that? They're not a top fold or main art story.

And Bressler, it's not a public job. If you actually worked at a newspaper - and not knowing who you are, I won't say you haven't either - you know that the public doesn't dictate coverage. The news is supposed to, but unfortunately advertisers have more power than any average joe who reads the paper with his morning coffee.
BigApple - I have no idea what kind of agenda I would have. BK is a friend and I've shared a media room with the rest of the local guys, but if they screwed something up I'm not the kind of person to not point it out.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

EricRueb wrote:In fact, 99 percent of the time the customer is a babbling idiot.

You seriously did not post this.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 9 years ago

EricRueb wrote:young readers (25-40) aren't interested in the news.

It was hard to pick just one part of that disaster of a post, but I decided to go with this one. You could not possibly be more wrong if you tried. Now, if you want to say young readers aren't interested in getting the news a day late in a newspaper, then you would be on to something.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Following up on what Adam said, newspapers should redefine their niche. They aren't going to be the place to break run of the mill, day-to-day news scoops. The internet just kills them on that. But they do (or should) have a staff of smart professional writers. So take more of a weekly/monthly magazine approach and try to (1) break major stories that have to be investigated and put together over a long period and (2) provide in-depth analysis of news events, and try to be specific to the geographical footprint of your readership in both respects. Be an insightful, long form outlet. But these blurbs and snippets of daily fluff are no longer useful to anyone. There are way too many placed provided that stuff quickly and for free.

Ram1019 · Unread post by **Ram1019** » 9 years ago

I am in my 20's and also interested in the news. The issue with the paper is that I turn on the news in the morning, listen to the radio, check twitter, this board.....by the time I have the paper in my hands it is old news. I feel like this is one of many reasons why the projo is struggling.

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