Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I'm sure Tom Izzo, Tom Crean, Thad Matta et al, are just trembling in their shoes
worrying about a conference that hasn't played a single game.
Just a fluff piece with no substance at all.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Honestly, I think the Big 4 will exist primarily on ESPN, sort of like they do now. There will be plenty of primetime coverage on the NBC Sports Network or through their partnership with Comcast Sports/FSN. CBS Sports Network might be an even better option because they won't have to battle with NHL for primetime coverage, and than preferential coverage on CBS.

My only real concern is that the ESPN body of networks is vast. ESPN, 2, Classic, News, U, plus ESPN3 and Full Court, which translates to the local network (OSN 5). Will any new conference be able to partner with local media? People on channel 10 probably wouldn't like having PC/Xavier on instead of Fear Factor or The Office. People on channel 12 probably wouldn't like having URI/Richmond on instead of Survivor or NCIS. I feel like any new media deal won't want to lock right in with Cox anymore, as that is only half the TV viewers in the state. So maybe they get with MyRI to get both PC/URI games out? Does URI work with them now? If so, how does that go?

So then what happens? Do they get a deal with local comcast? But Comcast is regional, so they would battle the Celtics. Do the Celtics get blacked out locally in favor of these games? Probably won't make a lot of people happy. The beauty of the current BE contract is that every conference game can be found on TV or online. There will be airtime, it's just a matter of trying to get every game to everyone which could be a problem at this point, because I can be objective, nationally, people would only even consider watching games between nationally-ranked programs competing for NCAA. It's why PC hasn't even sniffed ESPN or CBS past four years. We've had maybe two games on ESPN 2 each season for the past four years. Maybe three or four other games end up on ESPNU, and the rest are on local TV or ESPN3. If you cut the pool of possible channels to 2 or 3 instead of 4 or 5, how does that change things?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:URI will not be a member of any BE7 plus ?? conference unless it goes to 16 and even that is borderline. Someone talked about the BCS cartel gobbling up all time slots. This couldn't be further from the truth. Networks are DYING for inventory. All the ESPNs, digital platforms, conference specific netowrks, CBS college, NBC sports. The new league will be very attractive and will provide significantly more money than what the A10 spits out now. Further, state of the program means very little. No one cares about the fact that Hurley might have a good thing going. By and large, these aren't dumb people and they know that coaches are transient. They care about one thing. Market relevance. And putting PC and Rhody in the same conference is not good business. It stinks but it is reality.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but two teams sharing a market is no more determinative than who the coach is (meaning: not important). Every conference has two schools from the same state, and many share markets. That isn't the issue. The issue is that THIS market and THESE schools probably aren't big enough to justify it. But if Rhody and PC each independently brought a lot of eyeballs when they played on TV nobody would care where those eyeballs were located. Unfortunately, we don't have a big enough fan base and our market isn't large enough to make up for it with casual viewers (the same could be said for PC, too, but they already have a foot in the door and aren't looking for an invite). So I think you're generalizing a bit too much, but overall you're probably arriving at the right conclusion.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

Ramblinrose wrote:What does the state have to do with who gets into a conference?

Sometimes a lot. Look at the State of Virginia. Supposedly Va TEch was not originally a target of the ACC (the plan was to reportedly add Miami, BC, and Syracuse nearly 10 years ago). The governor and other politicians in Va pressured UVA to get the ACC to include Va Tech. Syracuse was never officially invited into the ACC then but Va Tech was.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

RF1 wrote:
Ramblinrose wrote:What does the state have to do with who gets into a conference?

Sometimes a lot. Look at the State of Virginia. Supposedly Va TEch was not originally a target of the ACC (the plan was to reportedly add Miami, BC, and Syracuse nearly 10 years ago). The governor and other politicians in Va pressured UVA to get the ACC to include Va Tech. Syracuse was never officially invited into the ACC then but Va Tech was.

Both UVA and Va Tech are state schools, so the state had leverage. As a private school, PC isn't subject to such pressure.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

I hate all this conf talk !!!

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

http://m.si.com/627787/whats-next-for-c ... -big-east/

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

If it came down to a proactive move by our Gov or Legislature to have a positive infulence to raise the proflie of URI in this conference shuffle.......there's no clue and less chance.........

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

section(105) wrote:If it came down to a proactive move by our Gov or Legislature to have a positive infulence to raise the proflie of URI in this conference shuffle.......there's no clue and less chance.........

With how things work in RI, it would be the non-public religious school that is 90% out of staters that RI politicians would work for. Things are backwards here.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Linc Alomnd was the last and only Governor, I can recall, who
knew where Kingston was, and attended games there.
Chafee, is a cluless buffoon.

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 11 years ago

chafee is too busy lighting "HOLIDAY" trees to have the time to find out where Kingston is!!!!!!!!

Rod u r giving him the benefit of the doubt by calling him a clueless bufoon.

gorhody89 · Unread post by **gorhody89** » 11 years ago

Linc almond still attends every game, good guy....

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

McRam, I could go on about Governor Goofy, but I'd get banned
if I posted what I really think of him.
His father was a great and honorable man, who must be rolling over in his
grave, at his idiot son's antics.

ramsman75 · Unread post by **ramsman75** » 11 years ago

Just some idle ramblings before heading out to the game...it is ironic that the conference (A10) that has been the object of derision from the school to our North (the school that shall go unnamed) apparently holds the wild cards for said school to remain (become?) relevant on the national stage. We are led to believe that it is a fait accompli that some combination of X, Butler, Dayton, St Louis and/or VCU are soon to depart to the great unknown, unnamed (and currently non-existent?) conference. Without X and Butler, the other 3 schools are going nowhere.

Let me propose a different scenario. What if those 5 A10 schools simply stand and play for the dealer to bust? The key to that strategy is convincing X and Butler that we are committed 100% to becoming the premiere, basketball centric conference in the land and the way to do that is to reform the conference. We need to get down to 10 members within the next year by asking those current schools that have not demonstrated the commitment over the last 10 years to find a new home. That is addition by subtraction as it would leave us ample negotiating room to add anywhere from 2 to 6 members in subsequent years.

There is ample landing room for those schools that choose to relocate. Temple, UMass and Charlotte are already gone for football and Fordham is rumored to be considering the Patriot League (great fit for them). I would hold on to GW and Duquesne at this point. That leaves LaSalle and St Bonaventure and the most likely landing spot for them might be the MAAC.

Newly Reformed A10
Xavier
Dayton
Butler
St Louis
VCU
Richmond
URI
St Joe
Duquesne
GW

Future Additions 12 Team Conference(in order of Preference)
Marquette
Depaul

Future Additions 14 Team Conference (in order of preference)
Georgetown
St John's

Future Additions 16 Team Conference (in order of preference)
Villanova
Seton Hall

Class dismissed

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Ain't happening...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

A lot of weird resistance of reality going on here among URI fans. It isn't difficult to see what is going to happen here. URI can't control it, they just have to be prepared to deal with the new reality. Fans melting down about it and defying reality by inventing these odd dream scenarios aren't helping.

ramsman75 · Unread post by **ramsman75** » 11 years ago

Sean...never said it was happening though I'm not surprised by your response

TP...I'm a little surprised at your response. Resistance of reality? Really?? The only reality is that X and Butler are still, at this point, members of the A10. When the announcement is made that they are leaving the A10 that will be the new reality. I never suggested that URI could control it nor am I "melting down". My point was that there is a very real threat and that the A10 needs to take the necessary steps to strengthen its' position. What would you suggest...that we bend over and grease up?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Ramsman75, I love your scenario!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

75, wasn't responding directly to you. I think there are a lot of scenarios that could make sense, but ultimately I think a 12 team new conference that doesn't include URI is almost a fait accompli. As I've said before in this thread, there are moves left on the board for URI, and we (the university, but also the board) should be focused on those. We should have a 2 to 4 bid league left that URI could dominate with the proper approach. So all of this "woe-is-us" stuff about how we should just cancel the program, or alternatively inventing wild grandiose scenarios where its all "OK," seem to be wastes of time.

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 11 years ago

With conference play right around the corner, its pretty interesting to see how the BE7 has performed so far in the non conference compared to the A10's non conference performance. Head to Head the A10 holds a 4-3 advantage with URI having 2 of the 3 losses, and only 1 of the 6 games being played on the home floor of the A10 team (LaSalle's win over Nova). The BE7 has managed only 1 win vs the top 20 (G-Town over UCLA), while the A10 has 4 wins vs the top 20 not including todays Temple win over Syracuse since Temple is leaving the A10. BE7 has a few puzzling losses as well -- DePaul to Gardner-Webb, Marquette to Green Bay, St Johns to UNC-Asheville, Villanova to Columbia and pc today against a bad BC team. What does this all mean? I think its to early to tell, but one thing for sure is regardless of who the BE7 brings into the new conference, they will most certainly have to beef up their non conference scheduling when they no longer have the strong conference opponents to rely on for quality wins.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Which teams have more cache right now: X, Butler & VCU, or the now not in the old BE; Marquette, G'Town & 'Nova? I would say that the A10 three are as hot if not hotter than the BE3. I still don't see why there is not scenario where the A10 could be the aggressor? I understand that it's a lot cleaner for a new conference of 7 decent to very good teams, to just add 3-5 good to very good teams, and be done with it. Is there no way we could drop 3 and entice the BE3? I assume the only way is if we could offer them more money than they can get by poaching us...

The only solace that I have is that in the end, there are not more D1 basketball schools that we have to compete with for talent. There will still be the same number of teams with the same number of scholarships available, so we will still be able to get good players to come here. Most of the schools in the proposed new BE were considered above us on the recruiting scale already (at least pre-Hurley). Our path the the A10s automatic bid will just become a little easier (and in front of minuscule crowds).

These are my thoughts after a few at a neighborhood Christmas party...

ramsman75 · Unread post by **ramsman75** » 11 years ago

Shinze, TP et al...my point is that the so-called BE7/Catholic 7 or whatever you want to call them, does not, at present, have a conference. The objective is to prevent them from forming one and I suggest that the surest way for that to happen is for X and Butler to just say no. Am I wrong?

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Yes, without X & Butler the BE7 will not be anymore appealing than the A10. The question is what do we have to counter offer them and keep them from leaving? If they can in fact get 4x the money in the proposed new league we are SOL. Money talks...

Now, if in fact they can't leave for two years, things can change and maybe the A10 can mount a counter offensive to retain them.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I totally agree that Xavier, and to some extent Butler, hold all the cards here and if they wanted to make a power play for the A10, they could. The problem is that they seem totally uninterested in that scenario. I don't get why they would prefer to go be the new kid with the C7 schools rather than be the elder statesman in a revamped A10, especially because they could probably get the same TV deal with the same teams involved either way (plus a few more in a 16 team A10). But it's pretty clear to me that they aren't interested in that, unfortunately. Xavier is going to sell the rest of the conference out.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Agreed TP, they could force the A10 into trimming a few teams, and then telling the BE3 the only way we going to be in the same conference is if you join us in the A10. I guess the problem with that is if the BE3 call their bluff, and just go add St Mary's, Gonzaga and Creighton, and get a significantly better TV deal than the A10.

At this point it wouldn't be the worst for us if they did stay all Catholic. Then we could keep Butler.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Look at overall performance over the last 5-10 years and its not close. Factor in the stroke that these schools have with media outlets and other schools; the gap widens.

I still contend the best option is BE7 with the top 10 A-10 schools(proposed by someone here) is the best long term option

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

What "stroke"? Georgetown hasn't been a real power in years. Marquette isn't even as good as Xavier.
Villanova is sinking faster than the Titanic. PC? Depaul? Seton Hall?? Come on!
You might think you were talking about Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia.

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 11 years ago

seanmc94 wrote:Look at overall performance over the last 5-10 years and its not close. Factor in the stroke that these schools have with media outlets and other schools; the gap widens.

I still contend the best option is BE7 with the top 10 A-10 schools(proposed by someone here) is the best long term option

OK, lets look at the over performance of the BE7 vs the A10.... Since 2001 the A10 as a conference has 31 wins in the NCAA tournament, in that same span the BE7 has 29 wins in the NCAA tournament. It should also be noted the A10 teams are usually playing as the lower seed. You are correct, its not even close.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Fellas,

You asked about 3 specific teams against each other. Please don't start using meaningless facts to support a baseless argument. Read the posts carefully. Digest the information and form a thoughtful response.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

If the BE7 takes Creighton from the MVC maybe we can entice Wichita State. Add George Mason, and we are back in business.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Shinze88 wrote:
seanmc94 wrote:Look at overall performance over the last 5-10 years and its not close. Factor in the stroke that these schools have with media outlets and other schools; the gap widens.

I still contend the best option is BE7 with the top 10 A-10 schools(proposed by someone here) is the best long term option

OK, lets look at the over performance of the BE7 vs the A10.... Since 2001 the A10 as a conference has 31 wins in the NCAA tournament, in that same span the BE7 has 29 wins in the NCAA tournament. It should also be noted the A10 teams are usually playing as the lower seed. You are correct, its not even close.

Also, consider the number of BE teams participating in the NCAA's over that time period compared to the A10.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

What will the impact be on our TV contract if we do lose X & Butler?

I am not sure what "stroke" Sean is referring to...but it's nice to see that FWIW he would like to see a merger with the top 10 A10 teams and the BE 7...as long as he thinks we are one of the top 10.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

CA7 and the top 10 from the A-10 is a solid bbal
Focused conference with built in geographical rivalries and strong media ties.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

seanmc94 wrote:CA7 and the top 10 from the A-10 is a solid bbal
Focused conference with built in geographical rivalries and strong media ties.

I agree Sean. Maybe being from the smaller markets, we don't really understand all this crap, but I think conference-wise, without the BC or UCONN to be "natural rivalries" in conference, URI would be a great fit for that role, as well as bringing in 1 Philly school, etc.

I think the problem is the overall resistence of Villanova and Georgetown to share their market, and who is going to stand up to them? PC, Seton Hall, DePaul? They all need them to survive. And who knows, I'd bet PC doesn't want to share RI either.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

If the C7 and top 10 from the A10 join, PC shouldn't have any more power in deciding who is included than URI does. Should be an equal marriage.

Probaly would come down to a mutual agreement between the A10, the C7, and TV.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:If the C7 and top 10 from the A10 join, PC shouldn't have any more power in deciding who is included than URI does. Should be an equal marriage.

Probaly would come down to a mutual agreement between the A10, the C7, and TV.

You are right, because it would be a merger. But from all reports, the C7 doesn't want to merge. The Villanova stuff isn't new. It went back to the days of trying to get Penn St. in the BE, and they even fought tooth and nail about Temple before the TV powers kinda forced them into it.

That's the issue with the 16 team conference. If Villanova comes out and says "We don't want to play with LaSalle or St. Joe's or any other Philly team," and than Georgetown comes out and says, "Thats cool, than we don't want to share with GW," it's just going to go down the list. They can't stop PC from saying "Well if you don't want to share your market with St. Joe's, LaSalle, or GW, then we don't want to share RI with URI."

The only way I ever see that breaking down any differently is if one of the potential exiled schools turns into such a power than it's a no-brainer to bring them in, than maybe there is some resistence, like if Butler was a Chicago school and was battling DePaul. Well obvious Butler has more value, but the rest of those schools (LaSalle, URI, St. Joseph's, GW) don't really have that leg to stand on.

But I think that is more of why 10-12 teams seems to be the logical number. It allows them to get the strong teams without having to battle over teams within a market, however that doesn't change my opinion that I think 16 teams with shared markets to create natural rivalries would be a good thing.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Sorry, would be the top 9 from the A10, not 10.

I would think that the A10 would have to do it's own pruning of the 5 teams before any agreement with the C7 is reached.

That's going to be tough to do.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

That's why the timing of any breakup, and resulting merger is so important to URI.

Right now, URI doesn't have the "cache" needed, to be included with the A10 "9".

In a year or two, it will, however, be a power to be reckoned with. That could be our saving grace in all this.

If you-know-who was still here, none of this would apply. URI wouldn't even have a snowball's chance to be included in a new BE type league.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Here's another interesting thought....

What if the top 10 or so teams from the A10 do what the C7 is doing?

Break off, form their own league, add a few strong programs of their own, and still call it the A10?

I would think they would be able to take the name for sure. Then they could work out a new and better TV deal.

Might be easier than trying to dump teams from the conference? Might be the only way to strengthen the conference by getting rid of the weak bottom.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Here's another interesting thought....

What if the top 10 or so teams from the A10 do what the C7 is doing?

Break off, form their own league, add a few strong programs of their own, and still call it the A10?

I would think they would be able to take the name for sure. Then they could work out a new and better TV deal.

Might be easier than trying to dump teams from the conference? Might be the only way to strengthen the conference by getting rid of the weak bottom.

I would prefer a strong 10-12 team conference, similar to what the C7 is contemplating, with home and homes against all, or at least most of the other teams in the conference. You develop more rivalries that way.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Actually that's what I mean. Take the top 9 or so A10 programs, break off, and add 3 more quality programs.

Voila! There's your 12 team conference, at least the equal of the C7 plus a few others. No crappy bottom feeders like the A10 has now.

Would X, Butler, and Dayton want to be a part of this? I would hope so. Maybe just keep the original 10 teams from the A10 and add no one, just be rid of the 4 anchors. Those 10 could then get a better TV deal?

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

I am resigned to the fact that the over rated BE7 will steal our top teams but the Gonzaga inquire has me thinking. If the A-10 could pull it off, what about the below league assuming the BE7 steals 4 A-10 teams St Louis, Dayton, Butler and Xavier plus one non A-10 teams Creighton.

A-10 East
Rhode Island
VCU
Umass
Richmond
St Joseph
Duquesne
George Mason
Witchata State

A-10 West
Gonzago
Santa Clara
St Mary's
BYU
UNLV
San Diego State
New Mexico
Fill in another Mountain west or Big West School here

That would be a national league which would allow schools to still reduce travel a bit with the divisions set up. I think we would all be thrilled with that league.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Insane and not happening.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Why would WSU want to be in an eastern division. Travel expense would be enormous.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

CT Rhody wrote:I am resigned to the fact that the over rated BE7 will steal our top teams but the Gonzaga inquire has me thinking. If the A-10 could pull it off, what about the below league assuming the BE7 steals 4 A-10 teams St Louis, Dayton, Butler and Xavier plus one non A-10 teams Creighton.

A-10 East
Rhode Island
VCU
Umass
Richmond
St Joseph
Duquesne
George Mason
Witchata State

A-10 West
Gonzago
Santa Clara
St Mary's
BYU
UNLV
San Diego State
New Mexico
Fill in another Mountain west or Big West School here

That would be a national league which would allow schools to still reduce travel a bit with the divisions set up. I think we would all be thrilled with that league.

Change the league name to the A&P-18....

NHRamFan · Unread post by **NHRamFan** » 11 years ago

With all the travel the league could give S & H Green Stamps for miles traveled. (An A & P reference for all us old timers....)

ramsman75 · Unread post by **ramsman75** » 11 years ago

NHRamFan wrote:With all the travel the league could give S & H Green Stamps for miles traveled. (An A & P reference for all us old timers....)

Love the reference NH, though if I remember correctly the S(perry) & H(utchinson) Green Stamps were offered by Almacs (how's that for another old reference). I remember the Almacs on Bellevue Ave in Newport actually had a redemption center in the lower level of their store. They were ahead of their time, sort of an early version of frequent flyer miles for air travel. I am fairly certain that A & P also had a version of the stamp program but I can't remember what it was called.

AAAAh.....Wikipedia is a wonderful thing...the A&P program was Plaid Stamps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26H_Green_Stamps

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

The A-10 is primed for a major hit in my opinion......this conference thing has never broken well for URI since the inception of the big east.....I don't see our luck changing soon...

Maineiac66 · Unread post by **Maineiac66** » 11 years ago

I seem to vaguely recall that when the "state of the art" Providence Post Office was opened in the early 60's that someone put an S & H Green Stamp on a letter and it was delivered unscathed!

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

I know everybody doesn't think the East vs West Conference would work but here are some realities that during this day and age of madness realignment, why couldn't this be a possibility?

16 game schedule: Play everybody once and have your closest in conference school be your partner school that you play twice, one home and away.

18 game schedule: Same as the 16 plus, one partner group will play another partner pairing within their division. Thus continue to reduce travel. You would only have to travel out west for four games a year as the other 4 would be at home. If you alter your non conference schedule with more geo-friendly games which is the new normal, than traveling in conference won't be an issue. If the Zags are willing to travel East for every conference road game, this travel shouldn't be an issue.

I took the 2012-2013 RPI numbers for this league and believe it or not, the average would have this conference be the #1 ranked RPI conference in the country.

The current #1 ranked conference is the Big Ten with an avg RPI scoring of .5850. This new conference would score even higher this year.

Rhode Is 0.5144 Zags 0.6245
St Joe's 0.5391 BYU 0.5923
VCU 0.6086 St mary's 0.5564
Umass 0.6083 Wyoming 0.613
Richmond0.5612 UNLV 0.6606
Lasalle 0.6012 New mexico 0.6491
Wichita S 0.643 San Diego St 0.5733
Gmason 0.5755 Colorado St 0.6178
East Avg 0.5814125 West Avg 0.610875
Conf Avg 0.59614375

I know this is a long shot, but it shows yet again that good solid basketball is being played outside of the major football conferences.

Login • Register