Recruiting: Cooley vs. Hurley

[rambone 78]

Wanted to start a discussion among us, as to what people think about the difference between Cooley's recruiting abilities and results so far at PC, versus Dan Hurley's at URI.

And why there seems to be, so far, a BIG difference between the two.

Is it Fox's money?

Is it the BE versus the A10?

Is it the coach or assistants themselves?

Is it the school? Or any other number of factors?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[ram1980]

Not sure what the reason but Cooley is certainly getting a lot more out of his depleted lineup than Hurley is getting out of his.. At least PC has some exciting possibilities coming from the recruiting trail.. URI not so much..

[ram1980]

Is there any chance personality plays into this at all.. Cooley seems a lot more personable than Hurley.. Seems like he maybe the better salesman!!

[ramfan85]

Maybe the heading ought to be Hurley vs Baron.

[bigappleram]

Completely different personalities...but so what, Bob Knight didnt have a hard time recruiting? There are plenty of coaches out there that are tough on their players, enough with the whole theory he is running some type of military corp. is he demanding? I am sure he is. but so are many Div 1 coaches. the BE is a built-in advantage for Cooley, but nonetheless his results have been pretty impressive. would be even better if more of them played....so i guess we are basing it on Dunn, Bullock and what he has signed for next year vs EC and Hassan. from what i have seen i would take EC and Hassan over Dunn and Bullock. we dont know what we will have to compare to Cooley's class this year, which is a very good one.

on court results have outpaced us, but he inherited a pretty talented veteran core (Henton, Batts, Cotton) including an all league PG. Do you think we are better with Cotton running the point for us? that kid's awesome and makes a huge difference.

[Seawrightspostgame]

People forget how in the dumps PC was when Cooley took over. If we have cotton and batts are they cotton and batts as we know them???

Cooley seems to win the ones he is supposed to and hangs in there with the ones he is not. All you can ask for.

Not that DH is a bad coach. Love him. Pulling for him. I think he has left some opportunities out there since he has been here(Fordham a few days ago).

I still think with the Italy trip and extra preseason time we should have had more direction, execution, and most of all an identity we were working on. Execution reflects coaching.

It's no use bashing him though, we have been hit with a bevy of dramatic problems since the end of the Baron regime. I think he still has 1 year to 1 1/2 years to show a better product, which I think is absolutely obtainable with the roster considering there is only 1 guy leaving and they are adding people. They can schedule for the team to ease into the season and pad the stats next year.

Eventually Hurley will have his imprint on every piece of this program, hopefully it is something to be proud of.

[rodfromcranston]

What I think is this. Ed Cooley went to West Virginia to
meet with D'Quan Lyle's parents last night.
If I'm a parent, Cooley has a real warn, homey, relaxed, way about him in conversational
situation.
Dan is kind of blunt, not exactly relaxed, and always seems kind of nervous or tense.
Off the results, I don't see it being close. I thought it was last fall. We all did.
Now Cooley brings in 3 top 100's. We bring in a juco, and can't get some 2 star kid
to come here and are scrambling in February for recruits.
Yes, Cooley had some fine bridge guys, and Dan didn't. That shows with results on the
floor. However, what about off it?
Plus, Cooley's teams never die, never quit, and keep battling. Yes, Cotton is amazing, but
some of that has to be coaching and what's been instilled attitude wise.
If Pat Skerry can turn Towson State around, 1-31 to 18-13, a school with no history and get decent recruits
and results on the court, why are we looking at such a possibly bleak season, next year?
Yes, I know, Skerry isn't in the A-10. But VCU and Mason were in the CAA and managed
to make waves nationally.
I'm just at a point of coming out of the ether and seeing a picture that isn't
exactly rosey.

[CT Rhody]

I have faith this is going to turn around, just might take a little longer then what people were thinking.

[rambone 78]

Losing Bobby has hurt, no doubt.

He's more the laid back type. Not a Cooley, but less intense in a different way.

Having the two Hurleys together was like more than the sum of their parts. It worked.

Maybe a staff shakeup will help. I don't see it happening, though.

[rambone 78]

Rod, Skerry is a master recruiter.

Put him and Preston together, and we'd have something.

Something to think about after Dan moves on?

Just a thought, nothing more......

[rhodyrob]

Cooley is a salesman that could sell a junk car while Hurley will tell you it is a piece of crap. Cooley takes the face to face with the athlete and the family while Hurley is very to the point and doesn't like to stroke the kid. Maybe one believes in $ offered while the other wouldn't do that.
Murphy must be frustrated that he gets us close and the head man won't put the effort or charm into closing.

[rambone 78]

I don't think it's from lack of effort. Good grief.

Maybe style.

[Running Ram]

Hurley closed the deal on E.C., Mathews said so in his interview just last week. Lets not get carried away with comments like...

Murphy must be frustrated that he gets us close and the head man won't put the effort or charm into closing.

One of the things that I'll never question is the effort Dan puts forth.

bone said it best "good grief"

[Billyboy78]

I feel a Bressler ""Charlie Brown" video coming.

[ram12]

Cooley is no doubt an excellent recruiter. However, I believe Hurley is a great recruiter too. I think the conferences PC plays in absolutely effects the type of players they are able to get. The A-10 is making huge strides but it is still no Big East. We need to remember how BAD this program was when Hurley took over. I admit he hyped this year up quite a bit for the results we are getting, but I see the potential in the team and fully believe Hurley will turn this around. It is just going to take more than two years to do so. Need to give him a chance, can't expect everything all at once.

[seanmc94]

Cooley is a salesman that could sell a junk car while Hurley will tell you it is a piece of crap. Cooley takes the face to face with the athlete and the family while Hurley is very to the point and doesn't like to stroke the kid. Maybe one believes in $ offered while the other wouldn't do that.
Murphy must be frustrated that he gets us close and the head man won't put the effort or charm into closing.

So you think Cooley is cheating?

[Rhodymob05]

You guys are just torchering yourselves with this thread

[rambone 78]

Easy, Sean. No one is saying Cooley is cheating.

Unless....when Cooley goes to these kids' homes, maybe it's not his charm that reels them in, but a big 'ol bag of Fox's cash???



Just kidding.

[Rhody Guy]

I think by the time Hurley moves on from Rhody, Pat Skerry will be long gone from Towson. Sky is the limit for Skerry in my mind.

[RF1]

Cooley would really be doing well if he could get his highly rated recruits to qualify, stay out of trouble/not be suspended, and not get injured.

[rodfromcranston]

Yes, we said that about Dan, when he got here.
Sky's the limit.
Unless he quits out of sheer frustration, he'll be here for some time.
You need to win before you are a commodity for others to come after.
We need players, not fillers. Picking from the Filene's Basement of
recruits in spring, is a pretty scary proposition.
Wrong evaluations means you're stuck with CFL type, end of the bench
guys, for four years.

"Cooley would really be doing well if he could get his highly rated recruits to qualify, stay our of trouble/not be suspended, and not get injured."
Would you trade programs with PC? The sane answer is, "yes".

[theblueram]

agree Rod. It is a scary proposition. Especially when we have 3 to give.

[rodfromcranston]

We got Butler last year in the spring. Nuff said.
We had Alex Foster visit, and the next day, he declared for
Texas Tech!
They didn't want to take a chance on fatman Woodson, who wound up at Memphis.
Probably a good thing.
They kicked the tires on Jordan Morgan to be a post grad big, but he stayed at Michigan.
Time will tell what we get from Building 19's leftovers, after they went out
of business.

[theblueram]

Seems like 2 should be pushed to 2015 as they had focus there. Powell and hare were unexpected losses. It would not bode well if we are filling 3 scholarships with last minute hopefuls. Besides EC, Martin and Gil I would hope all the new adds are upgrades to everyone else.

[ramfan85]

Cooley can get his targets to commit. What happens after that is another story. We can only get them to consider us until a better offer develops.
I'm waiting for the "good ole" coachspeak: "We're saving some scholarships for next year's class."

[TruePoint]

I definitely thought we'd be in better shape with this class, but I don't think we are fully appreciating how difficult of a sell we are right now. We haven't been good in five years, and we haven't been really good in 15. We are coming off back-to-back single digit win seasons. Part of the job requirement is to recruit players in spite of all that, but that doesn't mean it's easy or it's always going to go your way.

The reality is settling in now that this isn't going to be the quick fix a lot of us hoped for, but that doesn't mean there is no hope. Dan has to continue to implement his program and steadily improve the on-court product with the players he has. That means developing them and getting the max out of them. As they get better, recruiting will get easier. It's going to take some time. Getting a good guard this cycle would have really accelerated the process, but failing to do so isn't fatal. It hurts, for sure, but we live to fight another day if the guys on hand get better over the summer and we are a better team next year, which I think is likely.

I'd also add that bringing in another Matt Butler type this class might make us fans feel better about addressing a need, but in the long run it wouldn't help the program that much. Even though getting a guard in here would have helped a ton if he could play, at this point I'd rather push it into next year unless they find someone that can actually help.

[rjsuperfly66]

Just a few points:

1) Big East vs. A-10
I know some people have stated that this year and moving forward, the A-10 and Big East can be competitive with one another, at least at the top. While this is somewhat factually accurate, the average Big East name and resources still holds significant weight over the A10. That is the biggest difference you see, and it directly relates to recruiting. Per Rivals 2014, the BE has 1 Top 25 recruit (with a good shot at 2) in comparison to 0 from the A10, 4 Top 50 recruits (to 1 from the A10), 8 Top 75 recruits (to 1 from the A10), 15 Top 100 recruits (to 1 from the A10), 19 Top 125 recruits (to 2 from the A10), and 21 Top 150 recruits (to 3 from the A10). So are A10 coaches just that much weaker recruiting? Who knows if this carries forward, but it should mean the average team is more talented in comparison.

2) Fox
Fox's money is definitely important, but Coach Cooley has stated several times that the biggest benefit of Fox at this point in time is the "national" exposure. People around the country might not care about DePaul vs. Seton Hall, but Cooley has said stated a big selling point to families is the fact they can watch their kids on national TV 20+ times a year. Playing on FS1 25 times this year has helped a lot more than playing 4 times on ESPN U. It's another one of those things that can change in the future as Fox brings in more sports/conferences, but for now they are using it as a huge asset.

[rodfromcranston]

We've been on ESPN2, ESPNU, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, this year.
Hurley can sell the TV angle, too.
I don't think that's the main problem here.

[RIFan]

I don't get this A10 inferiority complex. If we don't think we are a top conference...why should other people? Fact, the A10 puts 3-5 teams in the dance every year, which in some years has been more than BCS conferences; and every year we seem to be rated by the computer with the bottom BCS conferences. What is mid-major about that? I know the conference is not the same as it was, but neither is the Big East.

When we are recruiting it's not like we are selling the America East Conference. We are selling one of the top basketball conferences in the country...PERIOD! We need to believe it, and act like it...because it's the truth.

[rjsuperfly66]

We've been on ESPN2, ESPNU, CBS Sports, NBC Sports, this year.
Hurley can sell the TV angle, too.
I don't think that's the main problem here.

I think it was just a numbers thing though, if you compare the stats for one vs. the other.

PC
National ESPN-1
FS-20
CBS-6
NBC-0
-----------------
27 National TV games

URI
National ESPN-1
FS-0
CBS-5
NBC-2
-----------------
8 National TV games

27 vs. 8 is a huge difference. I don't think TV is the end all, but I think Cooley can at least sell the fact that "Hey, 27 of our 31 games were on National TV this year," whereas I don't think the URI staff would sell the TV angle like "Hey, 8 of our ___ games were on national TV too," of course I guess it depends who they were recruiting against though.

And also I know it wouldn't be mentioned here, but Cooley is loved nationally. He was a volunteer on the USA U19 team last year, and this year is an assistant coach to Billy Donovan with Sean Miller on the U18 team this year. It's all about exposure.

[rodfromcranston]

We've also been on SNY TV plenty of times. We could sell it to
NY-NJ players.
We rarely recruit against PC, so the comparison isn't valid.
I also wouldn't go overboard and say Cooley was
"loved" nationally. Donovan honors a link with PC.
Of course, reading other team's message boards, Dan Hurley
isn't exactly the people's choice.

[Gonebarongone]

Agree on Skerry. I think he is a star in the making. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a high major job within a few years.

As for Cooley vs. Hurley, the way I see it is that Cooley has been sitting at kitchen tables talking to 16 year olds for 20 years. He's done it at every level. Paid his dues. Rhody then ten years at BC both in the BE and ACC. First of all, he has "it". Second of all, he's refined his craft for two decades. Here is Dan Hurley's recruiting speech at Saint Benedict's. "I am a Hurley and you'll play for a state title every year'. Guy has no high level recruiting chops. At least Bobby could (and can) go in with the Duke, K, national titles, etc. Hurley doesn't look like the type of guy who seems like he would be very comfortable in a recruiting situation but that's just guessing. What is not guessing is that he has no pelts on the wall like Cooley does. We all loved the hire but to go from HS to an A10 gig in two years, you miss out on a lot of learning experiences.

[TruePoint]

GBG, that isn't totally unfair, but I don't think you can say he has no pelts on the wall. EC and Hassan were pretty good pulls in those situations. He has only been doing it for a short time (which I know was part of your point), so his track record is obviously incomplete.