Game #19: Virginia Commonwealth University - GameDay!

[SmartyBarrett]

So, I'm guessing they're not that interested in Severe but are interested in Williams.

I thought the same. The only issue is that Williams has some of the academic issues that Hurley has expressed concern about.

[Billyboy78]

the national prep invitational tournament is this week at RIC, this is the tournament that used to be at URI until the NCAA put in the rule not allowing prep school tournaments on D1 college campuses.

One game that looks interesting is tomorrow...St. Thomas Moore with Duane Notice against Brewster with Jared Terrell. Here's the schedule and a little writeup.
http://netscoutsbasketball.com/news/nat ... itational/

[Ramulous]

Canarias Basketball Academy (CBA) from Spain is playing in the tournament......

They visited Ryan this past game....

[Billyboy78]

Canarias Basketball Academy (CBA) from Spain is playing in the tournament......

They visited Ryan this past game....

I wonder if there is anyone from that team that we are recruiting?

[Iggy1979]

There are 3 CBA players at Seton Hall. None of them are great, though.

[Gonebarongone]

Hare....can't pass to him in the post, because he has no post up game. (Got that Gonezo?)

Thanks for asking. I guess you just don't understand what I am trying to say. I don't want to litigate this all over again but I don't think he is going to throw down Dream Shakes on people. I just want better uses of each possession than X impersonating Steph Marbury. Again, thanks for inquiring, though.

[Optimistic]

Hare....can't pass to him in the post, because he has no post up game. (Got that Gonezo?)

Thanks for asking. I guess you just don't understand what I am trying to say. I don't want to litigate this all over again but I don't think he is going to throw down Dream Shakes on people. I just want better uses of each possession than X impersonating Steph Marbury. Again, thanks for inquiring, though.

Hare was so efficient on offense last game because he took what was the defense gave him and that's it. If we tried to force it to him more, he would've had more missed shots, more turnovers and would've been much less efficient. X got 15 shots, which is not an insanely high total, especially considering he's our best offensive player hands down. I think you get a bad rap on this board a lot of the time, but you're wrong on this one, give it up.

[Gonebarongone]

Hare....can't pass to him in the post, because he has no post up game. (Got that Gonezo?)

Thanks for asking. I guess you just don't understand what I am trying to say. I don't want to litigate this all over again but I don't think he is going to throw down Dream Shakes on people. I just want better uses of each possession than X impersonating Steph Marbury. Again, thanks for inquiring, though.

Hare was so efficient on offense last game because he took what was the defense gave him and that's it. If we tried to force it to him more, he would've had more missed shots, more turnovers and would've been much less efficient. X got 15 shots, which is not an insanely high total, especially considering he's our best offensive player hands down. I think you get a bad rap on this board a lot of the time, but you're wrong on this one, give it up.

Thanks. Let me put it another way. X ranks 77th in the A10 in offensive efficiency. If you want to be fair and use only guys who have a decent usage rate, he is #42. Not in the country, in the A10. So, this isn't a borderline number. That pretty much establishes that you aren't a great offensive player or a good one. Now, do you know who is #3 in the a10 in usage rate? That is, what % of possessions with him on the floor end with an X shot or an X turnover. X is #3 in the a10 for usage. It is like giving a guy who can't get on base 700 at bats at the top of a lineup. I mean, you all can say he is a great offensive player but he is not. We are in February now. Maybe I am Ahab and chasing the whale or maybe I am tilting at windmills. And Hare is the straw man here. It isn't necessarily about him. It's about creating an offensive system that we can build on using the precious learning environment of live game action.

[bigappleram]

listen to the coach, the offensive system we are employing this year is out of NECESSITY. he does not have the pieces to run the offense he would like, nor the defense for that matter. this year is a band aid, the only investment being made for the future is in the culture and how he wants our guys to work. not in game execution. i am sure X's numbers will improve when he is not playing offense 1 vs 3. maybe you can find a stat for that billy beane.

[rodfromcranston]

Hurley regards Munford as his only real A-10 top talent, this year.
Then again, what does he know? Right?

[Ramulous]

I'm sure Hare is working on his low post offense against Biruta and Big O on a daily basis....

[Gonebarongone]

listen to the coach, the offensive system we are employing this year is out of NECESSITY. he does not have the pieces to run the offense he would like, nor the defense for that matter. this year is a band aid, the only investment being made for the future is in the culture and how he wants our guys to work. not in game execution. i am sure X's numbers will improve when he is not playing offense 1 vs 3. maybe you can find a stat for that billy beane.

I guess that's just where we differ. Not using this year for anything other than culture and how he wants our guys to work (how is this different than culture?) is a colossal mistake. There are a million things that this squad can do in games to help be better in the future. But, I guess pickup ball is worth an extra win or two. Awesome.

[rodfromcranston]

Yup, Dan Hurley is just stealing his 700K salary.
We should have kept the Walrus and saved money,
or hired Gonebaron instead.

[bigappleram]

hahahaha you're becoming a joke more and more. we should fire Hurley and hire you.

[ace]

Thanks for asking. I guess you just don't understand what I am trying to say. I don't want to litigate this all over again but I don't think he is going to throw down Dream Shakes on people. I just want better uses of each possession than X impersonating Steph Marbury. Again, thanks for inquiring, though.

Hare was so efficient on offense last game because he took what was the defense gave him and that's it. If we tried to force it to him more, he would've had more missed shots, more turnovers and would've been much less efficient. X got 15 shots, which is not an insanely high total, especially considering he's our best offensive player hands down. I think you get a bad rap on this board a lot of the time, but you're wrong on this one, give it up.

Thanks. Let me put it another way. X ranks 77th in the A10 in offensive efficiency. If you want to be fair and use only guys who have a decent usage rate, he is #42. Not in the country, in the A10. So, this isn't a borderline number. That pretty much establishes that you aren't a great offensive player or a good one. Now, do you know who is #3 in the a10 in usage rate? That is, what % of possessions with him on the floor end with an X shot or an X turnover. X is #3 in the a10 for usage. It is like giving a guy who can't get on base 700 at bats at the top of a lineup. I mean, you all can say he is a great offensive player but he is not. We are in February now. Maybe I am Ahab and chasing the whale or maybe I am tilting at windmills. And Hare is the straw man here. It isn't necessarily about him. It's about creating an offensive system that we can build on using the precious learning environment of live game action.

As someone who has argued endlessly, for example, as to why Placido Polanco should not hit second in any line-up, I get your point and frustration, and I appreciate your use of stats. But, IMO, that argument doesn't work here, given the situation. Also, you may say that the use of Hare is a straw man argument, but it's one you were touting pretty hard. Two things that Hurley knows and that he has been pretty clear about: 1) If this was an ideal situation, Munford takes too many shots and 2) Very little from this season's offensive sets/system will carry over to next year. If you're concerned that what you're seeing now is the way Hurley coaches and sees the game, don't be. There are, at most, 5 current players who will get time next season, and only one is likely to start. There's not going to be continuity, and you can't impose an offensive system, in games, on a team that lacks the talent to implement it.

[Gonebarongone]

Yup, Dan Hurley is just stealing his 700K salary.
We should have kept the Walrus and saved money,
or hired Gonebaron instead.

There are sycophants who tweet the coach and there are people who enjoy rooting for their team but at the same team employing critical analysis of the ups and downs along the way. To each his own. I wasn't crazy about how Bill Belichick punted twice in Ravens' territory two weeks ago. Doesn't mean that I think I am a better coach.

[SGreenwell]

GBG - You're not taking context / scouting into account when trying to use usage rate. I'm familiar with the stats involved here - heck, I own Hollinger's abstracts in book form, and from where I'm sitting I can see my copy of Dean Oliver's "Basketball on Paper."

You're making the faulty assumption that X is taking shots away from better options, when really, the Rams are more constructed like, say, one of Allen Iverson's bad Philadelphia Sixers teams. Some years, when the second best offensive player on the team was Eric Snow, Iverson would take a ridiculous amount of shots. This made his usage rate skyrocket and his efficiency tumble... But heck, what were the Sixers alternatives? Would you rather have Allen Iverson take a shot, or George Lynch? Iverson forcing up a contested 3, or Dikembe Mutumbo trying to do post moves?

The Rams are constructed a similar way. Munford (and to a lesser extent Powell) is forced to shoot a lot because, if you look at the team's possessions, at any given time 1 to 4 guys on the court can't even create their own shot, nevermind whether said shot is a high percentage look. If Hare, Bigby, Aaman, Brooks and others could get good looks off more regularly, I'm sure they would. But they're each so limited in certain aspects that it's easy to scheme against them. (Roughly in order: Make sure you guard Hare on pick and rolls, try to coerce Bigby into taking jumpers, Aaman is ineffective if you stay on your feet and don't go for fakes because he's not that long, and Brooks has bad hands.)

I'm a big advocate of stats - I computed URI's PER on my own for a couple years, because at that point it wasn't widely available on the Internet. But I'm also a firm believer that stats aren't useful without context, and in this situation, I don't think Munford / Hurley is making the wrong decision when it comes to shot distribution.

[Iggy1979]

Awesome post Steve

[EasyEdBrown]

GBG - You're not taking context / scouting into account when trying to use usage rate. I'm familiar with the stats involved here - heck, I own Hollinger's abstracts in book form, and from where I'm sitting I can see my copy of Dean Oliver's "Basketball on Paper."

You're making the faulty assumption that X is taking shots away from better options, when really, the Rams are more constructed like, say, one of Allen Iverson's bad Philadelphia Sixers teams. Some years, when the second best offensive player on the team was Eric Snow, Iverson would take a ridiculous amount of shots. This made his usage rate skyrocket and his efficiency tumble... But heck, what were the Sixers alternatives? Would you rather have Allen Iverson take a shot, or George Lynch? Iverson forcing up a contested 3, or Dikembe Mutumbo trying to do post moves?

The Rams are constructed a similar way. Munford (and to a lesser extent Powell) is forced to shoot a lot because, if you look at the team's possessions, at any given time 1 to 4 guys on the court can't even create their own shot, nevermind whether said shot is a high percentage look. If Hare, Bigby, Aaman, Brooks and others could get good looks off more regularly, I'm sure they would. But they're each so limited in certain aspects that it's easy to scheme against them. (Roughly in order: Make sure you guard Hare on pick and rolls, try to coerce Bigby into taking jumpers, Aaman is ineffective if you stay on your feet and don't go for fakes because he's not that long, and Brooks has bad hands.)

I'm a big advocate of stats - I computed URI's PER on my own for a couple years, because at that point it wasn't widely available on the Internet. But I'm also a firm believer that stats aren't useful without context, and in this situation, I don't think Munford / Hurley is making the wrong decision when it comes to shot distribution.

This is exactly where I'm at. I mean, X could probably give the ball up more to Malone, or maybe Nik...but those are both options that doesn't get you where you want to go, player development-wise.

Hare, Aaman, etc need help to get looks at all. This is a deeply flawed team on offense, and I think qualitative and quantitative scouting is baring that out.

[Rhodymob05]

I heard the practice squad (trasfers and recruits) kick the crap out of the starting 5

[SGreenwell]

I heard the practice squad (trasfers and recruits) kick the crap out of the starting 5

Rod mentioned in another thread, I believe, that Hurley told him that the "scout" squad regularly wins their practice session games by 20 to 30 points. That wouldn't surprise me.

[rodfromcranston]

He said it's discouraging to the existing team, but what choice does he have?
On the other hand, if we're losing by single figures in all our A-10 games with a team losing
big to the guys sitting out, it surely bodes well for next season.

[rambone 78]

What it means, is we have a scary good group coming next year, not even counting Martin and Mathews, plus a couple more TBA in a couple of months.

With all the practices they've been able to have, I don't think the "learning curve" will be as steep as previously thought. It'll take some time for the freshmen to mesh, but it all looks like gravy from here so far.

If Butler, X, etc. are still in the A10 next year, which it's looking more and more likely they will be, we'll be right there with them. If somehow they go early, we'll be at the top of what's left.

[rodfromcranston]

I'll tell you, that European trip will go a long
way toward getting all the newbies used to each other in game
situations.
I thought the learning curve would be in the pre conference schedule, but
this changes everything.
Nobody is leaving the league next season.
We should be able to hit the ground running, because of this trip.
VCU did it before their Final Four run.

[reef]

Love the idea of a European trip, great for experience and team bonding

[RF1]

A preseason trip for a team with a lot of new parts makes much sense. It will allow for more time to build chemistry and define roles. Can do nothing but help. Biggest positive impact would be on the early OOC games.