OT: Patriots

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

I hope the Eagle don't let him design their uniforms.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Thanks, Pats. Great effort. Completely outplayed. Now we have two more weeks of hearing about Ray Lewis.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

ramfan85 wrote:Thanks, Pats. Great effort. Completely outplayed. Now we have two more weeks of hearing about Ray Lewis.

To be fair, every Super Bowl a specific storyline gets way overhyped, since you have just one real game on the schedule for two weeks. If it wasn't Ray Lewis, it would have been Brady's quest for a SB to equal Montana, or the Falcons playing the "nobody believes in us!" card.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yeah, didn't see that coming.

I know I'm not a Pats fan, but the arrogance from their fans this week was annoying. I guess they had a short memory, the Ravens always give them fits.

But NO points in the 2nd half? What were the odds of that?

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

you'll hear about Lewis and the Harbaugh Bowl

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Something tells me Pats fans will be pulling for the 49ers.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Yeah, didn't see that coming.

I know I'm not a Pats fan, but the arrogance from their fans this week was annoying. I guess they had a short memory, the Ravens always give them fits.

But NO points in the 2nd half? What were the odds of that?

It was shocking how overconfident everyone was. Bill Simmons picked them, but only by 3, and he took the Ravens because they were getting something like 8 points. I listened to WEEI for a bit on Saturday, and I'd say 90 percent of the callers thought the Pats were going to win by 10+, with only one person saying it would be a field goal game.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Felger got hammered all week for thinking the Ravens could win.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yup, reminds me of what went on before the 2008 SB.

I don't know if any of you know this, or remember it, but during the week before the game, Patriots players called Giants players, and invited them to THEIR [the Pats] victory party after the game!

Talk about arrogance. I think the Patriots think they have a God given right to play in, and win the SB every year.

Just heard on the CBS post game, they ripped Belichek a new one, for not giving a post game interview. Said that is why it's easy to root against them.

I tend to agree. Classless. Yeah, the Pats are good, but their coach is a sore loser.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Can we now end this "Brady is better than Montana" crap that I've read and heard in the Boston media all week?
He was the fourth best QB today, let alone the best of all time.
Of all the teams to lose to, the Thug Ravens, and that religious phoney, Ray Lewis.
His act is stale, and his dancing sucks. Plus he did nothing in today's game. He had one tackle I think. BFD!
As for Belichick being a sore loser, Giants fan, as Red Auerbach always said:
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a LOSER!"

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

People around here would hate Belichick if he were coaching any other team. The AFC was weak this year. The Ravens are a better team. At least it will be refreshing watching the SB without Simms making every excuse in the book for Brady's bad passes.
Baltimore deserved the win.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Hey Rod, we know. Nobody likes to lose, but he's got an obligation to do the interview I think.

Whatever. As we've seen lately in pro sports, the champions of the regular season don't win it all much anymore. The Pats, I think, are hurt by being in a suckass division. They aren't tested much, so when push comes to shove, they end up on the short end more often than not.

Hey, Brady's in the HOF even if he hangs 'em up tomorrow. Even Bill B. too. But better than Montana? Nope. Never. He NEVER lost a SB.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 11 years ago

Don't understand why Pats fans wouldn't have been confident coming in. Final 4 QBs besides Brady were Flacco, Ryan, Kaepernick.
Granted, QBs aren't everything, but gotta like those odds.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

People hated Vince Lombardi, Phil Jackson, Red Auebach, Bob Knight, Coach K, Bear Bryant, Tony Larussa, Steve Spurrier, Lou Holtz,and just about any coach who has won big during his lifetime. Anyone who hated those coaches, would give his left ball to
have his team coached by the guy he hated.
I just never thought the Pats would get killed by the Baltimore Thugs, like they did.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I will give you this, Rod. We're going to hear ad nauseum about Ray Lewis and the Harbaugh bowl for the next 2 weeks. I mean, the Harbaughs are good coaches, sure.

But Ray Lewis?

Aaaaarrrrggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Not only didn't Joe Montana not lose a Super Bowl, he was MVP in 3 and should have been 4.
He never had a single interception. His QB rating was the highest ever, by far.
His opposite number at QB were, Marino, Elway, Anderson and Easison.
Brady beat, Warner, Delhomme and McNabb. Only Warner was a great QB.
Yes, the Harbaughs can coach, for sure.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

That's true. And Brady won his 3 SB's by 3 points each. [Of course he lost 2, by 3 and 4 points too]

And the first SB was set up by the infamous tuck rule play, and that miracle kick in the snow. That was lucky.

It's a fine line between immortality and failure in sports. A lot of it, in this case, is out the QB's control. It's what someone else does, that determines your success most of the time.

Look what happened to Peyton last week. Yeah, he threw the pick in OT, but it never should have gotten to that point. That CB and safety gagged it up. The Ravens were done. Now, they might be champs.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Well, he's won 3 lost 2 Superbowls.
Married a supermodel. Lives in a mansion as big as The Pentagon.
On covers of many magazines.
Loved by millions of fans. Envied by likely just as many.
Not bad for a 6th round draft choice.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

The Bronco's secondary looked like the Pats in orange jerseys at the end of that game.
Before the playoffs began, someone on the ravens said they respect Brady, but fear Manning.
I, personally, always thought Manning was better.
Next year could be interesting. If the arrogant Pats let Welker and Talib go, they may not even win that shitty division they're in.
How much money have they spent trying to replace good players they let go?

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 11 years ago

I thought they were way too conservative, especially in the first half. Didn't see a big gain defesively with the pooch punts, and thougfht that at least twice they should have gone for it. Also it was out of character for both Brady and Beliceck to lose tarck of the time out at the end of the half. Those 14 seconds could have had a big impact on the outcome of this game.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

Losing Talib was a big loss

Also bad clock mgmt at the end of the 1st half Hernandez not going out of bounds then not calling that time out with 18 secs left

Totally outplayed in 2nd half as zero points scored showed

15 Year Lurker · Unread post by **15 Year Lurker** » 11 years ago

I'm a Giants fan but it was pretty clear to me once Talib went out it was over. The Patriots secondary went back to what it looked like before they picked him up. The secondary is absolutely helpless. It's amazing how much of an impact Talib had this season.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

The Pats don't like giving out long contracts to players over 30. It's actually worked out pretty well for them. They treat it like a business, not a sport.

I do give their front office a lot of credit. That's why they've been able to stay good for so long. [That, and having Brady].

They know, that if they give out that long contract, by the second half of that contract the player is on the decline, and no longer worth the money. Then they aren't stuck with that player, and have cap space to sign new ones.

My guess is, they let Welker go. Talib they might keep, seeing as they need him REALLY bad, as long as he keeps his nose clean.

The other thing, is that Bob Kraft is all class, unlike his coach. The Pats are VERY lucky to have an owner like him.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Brady will be upset if they let Welker walk.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Welker's a good player, but his best days are mostly behind him. He's a product of the "system" at NE. As in everyone plays a role in that system. The puzzle itself, is bigger than all the pieces that go into it.

I'd venture a guess that most Patriot players [except Gronk, he's a freak of nature] aren't any more physically gifted than most others in the NFL.

It's that offensive system, that's way ahead of it's time, although it looks like certain teams are beginning to figure it out.

How else can you explain Matt Cassel? When Brady went down, he went 11-5 that season. What's he done since?

If Welker leaves, the Pats will simply plug in another piece, and keep on winning.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Montana also had the luxury of HOF players all over his team. The only sure fire HOF player Brady has from his run is Vinateri. I'll still argue Elway is the greatest of all-time. No one did more with less. Big time arm, could hurt you with his legs. Total package

Smokinjimit · Unread post by **Smokinjimit** » 11 years ago

Lack of a pass rush makes a secondary look bad.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Horseface Elway was a big loser until he got a killer running game.
Vastly overrated.
No HOF on the Pats? Moss? Welker? Mankins? Bruschi? Harrison? Law?
Also Montana played when QBs didn't wear skits, and every downfield miss wasn't pass interference.
Brady may be the most protected QB in NFL history.
The blindside hit Montana took from the Giants, in the NFC championship game, nearly ended his career.
Oh, and SF was ahead when he went out, and a key fumble cost them yet, another Super Bowl.
Montana had spinal fusion surgery mid season, one year, and came back to play in the same season.
He also beat Elway's team 52-6 in his final Superbowl.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

Window is closing real fast for the Pats. They really haven't done much since spygate. You can see how Belicheat reacts when he isnt allowed to know the other teams plays beforehand.

15 Year Lurker · Unread post by **15 Year Lurker** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:The Pats don't like giving out long contracts to players over 30. It's actually worked out pretty well for them. They treat it like a business, not a sport.

I do give their front office a lot of credit. That's why they've been able to stay good for so long. [That, and having Brady].

They know, that if they give out that long contract, by the second half of that contract the player is on the decline, and no longer worth the money. Then they aren't stuck with that player, and have cap space to sign new ones.

My guess is, they let Welker go. Talib they might keep, seeing as they need him REALLY bad, as long as he keeps his nose clean.

The other thing, is that Bob Kraft is all class, unlike his coach. The Pats are VERY lucky to have an owner like him.

Yea, but they've got rid of others too early by sticking to that system. If they had kept Randy Moss they'd have a couple more Superbowls.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Brady may not have many years left, but the Pats will still be a playoff team every year for a while, as long as their division continues to suck.

Miami may be getting better finally. The Bills and Jets are a joke. The new GM and OC that the Jets just hired, might turn them around, but not for a while. Ryan is a good defensive coach, but not bringing in any offensive talent the last couple of years, is the exact opposite of what should have been done. The NFL is all about offense now, just look at the scores.

If you don't have the right people running things, you won't win.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

The Pats have made mistakes letting guys go early, but it's not an exact science.

I think they figure they can get guys to fit their system. Doesn't always work. 2 big examples:

Albert Haynesworthless, and Chad OhNoCinco.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 11 years ago

adam914 wrote:Window is closing real fast for the Pats. They really haven't done much since spygate. You can see how Belicheat reacts when he isnt allowed to know the other teams plays beforehand.

Yeah, all the deep playoff runs year after year really indicate that, huh?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

As for the baloney about "spygate'. gee, Belichick managed to get to two Superbowls and an AFC championship game
since then.
Anyone who discounts this organization, and Belichick isn't watching the NFL.
Has some of the bloom come off the rose since 2007? Bigtime. Same with Brady.
As for how "weak" the schedule was this year,
They beat Division leaders, Houston, and Denver, also beat Indy, lost by one point to the Ravens and Seahawks.
Only "bad" loss was to Arizona.
I've always felt, Belichick needs to delegate his de facto GM job to someone else, and stick to coaching.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 11 years ago

Amen Rod. It's a hater fall-back line and nothing else. They went 16-0 in the regular season post spy-gate and people still harp on "they haven't been good since". There's a lot of parity in the NFL, but they're in the mix every single year.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

It's tough to win these things.

One play, one call can change everything.

If you're on the wrong side of that play or call, you're branded a loser. It's like all the good things you've done to get to that point don't count.

That's sports nowadays.

It's like saying the Yankees are losers because they didn't win the WS. Again.

27 time champs, but it's never good enough.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

And the Pats will be in it again next season.
So the NFC East is wonderful? Teams like
the garbage Eagles, the choker Cowboys, the overrated Redskins and the Giants.
Maybe the Pats should petition the NFL to move to NFC Central, so they can play
better teams?
Just absurd.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

the Pats are similar to the recent editions of the yankees, built to dominate the regular season but not built for ultimate playoff success (ie winning a championship). without a playmaking defense and/or a running game it is tough to win it all. in recent years the packers, giants, etc have all had both stellar QB play and at least 1 of those 2 elements i mentioned. the pats have brady, a bad defense and non existent running game. i mean they made joe flacco look like joe namath.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 11 years ago

bigappleram wrote:the pats have brady, a bad defense and non existent running game.

In past years this was the case, but the Patriots had the 7th best rushing offense in the NFL this season. Ridley ran for over 1200 yards and 12 TDs.

The defense, on the other hand....

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Actually they had only 13 less rushing yards vs. Baltimore.
The running game this year is the best it's been since Corey Dillion's days.
Wonder why Bolden didn't play? He was really good before his suspension.
The failure to put any pressure on Flacco at all, was a killer.
That puts all the onus on the DBs, when the QB has all the time in
the world to throw.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Well, when Talib went out, that meant McCourty had to go back to CB, where he sucks. He was doing well at safety. Chung went out early too. No depth in the secondary, which even with Talib was suspect at best. They did play fairly well early, though.

There goes your defense. Add to that, no pass rush, and it was easy pickings for Flacco.

The defense doesn't get all the blame here though. The Pats had 5 trips inside the 25 yard line when it mattered. They got 1 TD, and 2 FG's. More like the Jets than the Pats.

There's your ball game.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

The Pats knew very well what they were in for last night. They are just not constituted to beat big, physical teams. Big, strong receivers kill them. Even when they're in position (db's), they can't make the play. Last night, there was some good coverage. On one TD play, Boldin (I think) was laughing at McCourtey for being unable to cover him.
They looked defeated as they started the second half. They played like they just didn't want to be there.
They had at least 3 occasions where they were around the Ravens' 35 yard line, third and two and couldn't convert. I can't believe they punted each time. They were way too conservative.
There's no deep threat on the team. Lloyd was supposed to be that, but, he prefers to catch and fall down. On one pass last night, he was on his knees when Brady released. Brady can't throw deep. When teams realize this and clog the middle, the Pats struggle. Last night 3 perfect passes were simply dropped. Gronk may be great, but he can't stay healthy.
As for the defense, when Talib went out, I figured they would lose. McCourtey and Harrington are scary at the corners.
They continue to not put pressure on the QB. They have their safeties playing so deep to protect against the bomb. They drop their linebackers back in coverage (as if they can defend the pass). In the first half, the Ravens did them a big favor by running on first down a lot. In the second half, they just dumped it off under the coverage.
This team needs (at least) a big, tough receiver, a tough-even dirty- corner, a safety that can take the right angles (Gregory is terrible at this) and generally, more players who are more like Mankins and Talib.
They had better find a way to keep Talib and Welker. We saw what happened when Belichick thought Edelmann could replace Welker.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

the pats struggle again big physical defenses

see: Giants in last 2 super bowls they were in, Baltimore pretty much every time, SF earlier this year (they scored when SF relaxed)

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

SmartyBarrett wrote:Amen Rod. It's a hater fall-back line and nothing else. They went 16-0 in the regular season post spy-gate and people still harp on "they haven't been good since". There's a lot of parity in the NFL, but they're in the mix every single year.

Actually its a little more than that. Its also an easy go to lines to watch Pats fans get all worked up!

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

They need receivers, badly. Welker is a great slot reciever but a slot receiver nevertheless. Lloyd is mediocre at best. Look at what Atlanta, Baltimore, Denver is putting out there. Big, strong guys who can go deep and catch in traffic. NE has nobody like that, especially with Gronk out, so its just dink and dunk all game. So the safeties pull up and then there's no room to run either. The offense lost that game not the D.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Rod,
Elway overrated? Are you serious? Guy went to 3 Super Bowls by himself. No running game, journeyman receivers. He carried a franchise. Got over the hump with TD.

No way law, Harrison and Brischi are HOF. Moss yes, but he did his damage with other teams. Welker, nope.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Didn't know you were on the Hall of Fame Committee.
Elway was the ARod of the NFL. Gaudy regular season stats,
lost three Superbowls and two AFC championships, before winning his last two.
Terrell Davis had 157 yards to win the Superbowl MV. Elway never won until Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith came along.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

As long as Brady and Belly are around Pats will be in contention, thats all you can ask for as a fan

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

bigappleram wrote:the Pats are similar to the recent editions of the yankees, built to dominate the regular season but not built for ultimate playoff success (ie winning a championship). without a playmaking defense and/or a running game it is tough to win it all. in recent years the packers, giants, etc have all had both stellar QB play and at least 1 of those 2 elements i mentioned. the pats have brady, a bad defense and non existent running game. i mean they made joe flacco look like joe namath.

The problem once you get to the playoffs, in just about any sport, is that the teams are much more evenly matched. Over the course of a season, in everything except football, the better teams tend to rise to the top. (Football has a smaller sample size, so with just 16 games, you can have anomalies like 8-8 teams getting in.) If you have two teams that are at least within range of each other, the "favored" team normally only wins 50 to 60 percent of the time, with some wiggle room on both ends of that range depending on individual match-ups. It's why a first round bye is so important (you need to just win three toss-up games instead of four).

Pro basketball tends to produce the "truest" champion, at least IMO, since there are seven games per round after the first one, plus there are so many "events" in a game that the better team does tend to win a playoff series. College basketball, probably the least, since you have so many rounds and everything is single elimination.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Didn't know you were on the Hall of Fame Committee.
Elway was the ARod of the NFL. Gaudy regular season stats,
lost three Superbowls and two AFC championships, before winning his last two.
Terrell Davis had 157 yards to win the Superbowl MV. Elway never won until Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Rod Smith came along.

Exactly,

You made my point for me. Tough to argue he only had good regular season stats when he went to 3 SBs and 2 afc championship games with the likes of Ricky natiel and bobby humphries.
Montana had Dwight Clark, roger Craig, Jerry rice and bill Walsh. Not knocking Montana, but IMHO elway is tops. And I'm a raider fan

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