The State of the Atlantic 10

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PillPushr
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The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by PillPushr »

I am interested in discussing the state of our conference. Its a majorly down year, but overall I think the conference looks pretty promising going forward. Wondering others thoughts on this.

- Obviously, Hurley has URI going strong.
- VCU and Dayton will be back to their old selves soon.
- I think UMass, Duquesne, and Saint Louis all are moving in the right direction with their new coaches.
- Davidson, St. Bona, St. Joe's will be what they have been, which is up and down, some good years and some not so good.
- The programs I view as potentially questionable right are Richmond, George Mason, La Salle, GW. Although Richmond has turned their season around a little, I know many people are frustrated with Mooney down there. La Salle is openly considering relocating to the MAAC, and Dr. G is on the hot seat there. And honestly, Mason and GW just seen stagnant.
- Fordham is just a train wreck that needs to leave the conference.
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theblueram
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by theblueram »

Since 2015 there are 8 new coaches. I think that says it all about where the conference stands.
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adam914
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by adam914 »

I feel like the A10 has been and likely will always be a type of conference that goes through phases like this. There is some very promising young talent in the league right now. As a league that doesn't get many one and done type guys it will always be at its peak when you catch a year where there are multiple teams with junior/senior veteran guys that lead teams. We are really the only team in that situation right now. Then as you also mentioned when you throw in the turnover in coaches recently as well then you end up with a down year.

I think the A10 will be fine in the long run, and once a few of these coaches get established and some of the young talent grows up a little then we'll see an A10 that is getting multiple bids again. But there are always going to be some down years mixed in to because teams don't just reload with top freshman every single year.
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bigappleram
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by bigappleram »

It was a perfect storm of shit this year for the league. 2 perennial powers with coaching shake ups (Dayton, VCU), injuries to 2 schools that should have played near the top tier of league (St Joe's, Lasalle), young rosters at SLU and Umass that look to be much stronger next year. Really only Duquesne and Davidson have performed better than expected, but even then nothing that would mask the deficiencies of the 4 schools mentioned above. Get rid of Fordham and at least 1 of Duquesne or Lasalle and IMO the league would be much better set up for long term success. Pipe dream I know. Agree with Adam given our place in the hierarchy there will always be years like this, but it seems like a phase not an indicator of a downward trend.
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urirx
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by urirx »

as others have said, the A10 in general is paying the price for being the source of talented coaches all leaving within a brief window, with their talented recruiting classes going with them. I think every program in the A10, except Fordham, has some level of management that cares about moving their MBB program forward, even if feels like it will never happen.

I know personally, this year, st louis, Duq, VCU and Dayton all feel like teams that just need to season freshmen, as the flashes of brilliance are there. It is like us with Fatts, god bless him when he has his freshman moments, but God D@mn! when he has his top talent moments. these schools all have coaches who can coach. SBU and Davidson I feel less like this but they have had success so expect them to continue. St. joes either has been injury prone or been paying off its deal with the devil.

Richmond and LaSalle are interesting. I think Richmond is in a situation like URI was in at the end of Baron.. maybe waiting a year or two too long to cut the cord, but made sense to someone side of basketball (be it buyout or other issues). LaSalle with the one random public post become a wild card, though their sweet 16 run of 5 years ago makes it hard to cut Dr. G.

GW and GM both care about basketball, but GW is going to get cut some slack due to length of tenure in A10. GM hasn't performed at all since joining the A10 and needs to decide it wants to compete at this level. GW will be back but had a coach issue that effected 2 or 3 recruiting classes

Fordham is Fordham. They will cash their basketball checks and say they are wonderful in all the other Olympic sports to justify why they shouldn't move.
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Rhody74
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by Rhody74 »

Just a hunch, but I think St Joe’s is in a long term decline.
Martelli is resting on his laurels and their gym is substandard. I’m not saying they should leave the A10, but they’ll be second tier until they get a new coach.
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RF1
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by RF1 »

The situation at LaSalle is troubling as well. The school is having financial difficulties and currently examining its sports programs and has not ruled out downgrading conferences. The money they earned (4 NCAA units) for the NCAA Sweet-16 run in 2013 will run out next year. The schools is so hard pressed for cash is has proposed selling off nearly 50 of its art museums prized works to raise several million dollars.

We see how difficult it is to fund a program at the required levels here at URI. We however are one of the larger enrollment schools in the league and play in one of the bigger capacity and nicer venues. It can't be easy for schools such as LaSalle, St Joe's, Duquesne, GW, Davidson, Fordham and SBU to fund their programs without a huge subsidy from student fees given their limited revenue potential. GW, Davidson, and Fordham might have an easier time than the others sustaining things given they are on much better financial footing. I however have to wonder about the others. Will they be able to keep up with the ever escalating costs to compete in a league such as the A-10?

Aside from my concerns about some of the smaller schools, the A-10 needs coaching stability in order for the A-10 to get back on the footing is has generally been on (averaging three NCAA bids per year for last 20 seasons). If coaches keep leaving the successful programs after short stints with regularity, we are going to see down years like this.
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UCH21377
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by UCH21377 »

I'd be much more concerned about the next round of conference expansion and its trickle-down effect. If the AAC decides to add more basketball-only schools then VCU fits the profile. Maybe we do too. UMass also. The A10 must stay on equal footing with the AAC. I know people disagree but right now the AAC is better than the A10. And if the NBE decides to expand then Dayton, STL, and Richmond fit their profile pretty well. If some of the better programs move yet again, the A10 may have a hard time recovering.
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reef
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by reef »

Unfortunately it's URI and everybody else at least for this year

Hope the conf is never the reason DH leaves URI
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eli#10
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by eli#10 »

St Joes has really been hurt by injuries the past 2 years.
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Da_Process_Survivor
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

UCH21377 wrote:I'd be much more concerned about the next round of conference expansion and its trickle-down effect. If the AAC decides to add more basketball-only schools then VCU fits the profile. Maybe we do too. UMass also. The A10 must stay on equal footing with the AAC. I know people disagree but right now the AAC is better than the A10. And if the NBE decides to expand then Dayton, STL, and Richmond fit their profile pretty well. If some of the better programs move yet again, the A10 may have a hard time recovering.
The AAC is the casualty of the next expansion.

That conference has a limited shelf life
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PillPushr
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by PillPushr »

Well, the way I see it the only two conferences that may consider expansion in the near future are the Big 12 and the Big East. For as good as the Big 12 is in basketball, football is the main driver there. Honestly, the only two schools that I can see potentially fitting into that conference are AAC programs Cincinnati and Memphis. At that point, what would that trigger in the AAC? A total collapse of that conference, they attempt to add two D1 football programs (but who is really available that is even halfway decent?), or they somehow double down on getting some basketball only programs like Wichita State. The last option on there could potentially include some A10 schools (even us?).

The Big East is a basketball only conference, so if they were to expand it would likely be Dayton, Saint Louis, or potentially even long shot Gonzaga. Just out of interest, say the Big East poaches Dayton and SLU from the A10 to make their league a 12 team league. Who would the A10 add at that point?
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by Blue Man »

Honestly though, if dan is here and can recruit... URI could become a Gonzaga or Wichita and just run the conference and develop into an auto bid program.

Gonzaga was a 1 seed last year in a prohibitive 2 bid conference at best. If we’re top dogs the rest takes care of itself.
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UCH21377
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by UCH21377 »

The AAC needs to expand just for the reasons noted above; fending off P5 poachers. I could see them expanding with both football and basketball schools and morphing into a large, wide-spread conference (kind of like the old Big East). Go get some good basketball schools (VCU, URI?) plus some football schools with decent basketball (Middle Tenn, UMass, Boise?), and position themselves as the best option to the P5 conferences.
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CTRamfan
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by CTRamfan »

I think the league is at its bottom right now, primarily due to the coaching changes...............but, as we have gone, others will start to improve.

Clearly, St. L, UMass and the Dukes will be better next year.
The Bonnies, VCU, and the Dukes will see post season action this year.
We [URI] might have a slight drop off.......It will be hard to match our current RPI of 6 [2/3, 7:30pm]......via a little help from PC today.
Richmond has played well the last month.
Davidson might take two years to get better.

The Philly schools were snake bit this year.
I thought GW would be better, hopefully next year........ditto Dayton.

Fordham and G. Mason will probably struggle again.

Most of all, we need a lot more Tier 1 and 2 victories.......we [A10] were really bad this year.
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reef
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by reef »

Take the best of the AAC and the A10 ???

That would be great for URI ??
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by Rhody74 »

reef wrote:Take the best of the AAC and the A10 ???

That would be great for URI ??
It will never happen but it would be fun to have UMass, UConn and URI in the same league again.
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by CT Rhody »

PillPushr wrote:Well, the way I see it the only two conferences that may consider expansion in the near future are the Big 12 and the Big East. For as good as the Big 12 is in basketball, football is the main driver there. Honestly, the only two schools that I can see potentially fitting into that conference are AAC programs Cincinnati and Memphis. At that point, what would that trigger in the AAC? A total collapse of that conference, they attempt to add two D1 football programs (but who is really available that is even halfway decent?), or they somehow double down on getting some basketball only programs like Wichita State. The last option on there could potentially include some A10 schools (even us?).

The Big East is a basketball only conference, so if they were to expand it would likely be Dayton, Saint Louis, or potentially even long shot Gonzaga. Just out of interest, say the Big East poaches Dayton and SLU from the A10 to make their league a 12 team league. Who would the A10 add at that point?
The A-10 wouldn’t need to add. It should go down to a ten team conference and add sustainability metrics so all ten programs continue to compete at the high major level. That’s what needs to happen.
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wpbrown8267
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by wpbrown8267 »

Blue Man wrote:Honestly though, if dan is here and can recruit... URI could become a Gonzaga or Wichita and just run the conference and develop into an auto bid program.

Gonzaga was a 1 seed last year in a prohibitive 2 bid conference at best. If we’re top dogs the rest takes care of itself.
This was Dan’s quote a few years ago, making us the zags of the east. I really do think that is Dan’s vision as long as the school is backing him (practice facility, etc)

The program is in position to really be in a special place...for continued success year over year
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RhodyRam86
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by RhodyRam86 »

CTRamfan wrote:I think the league is at its bottom right now, primarily due to the coaching changes...............but, as we have gone, others will start to improve.

Clearly, St. L, UMass and the Dukes will be better next year.
The Bonnies, VCU, and the Dukes will see post season action this year.
We [URI] might have a slight drop off.......It will be hard to match our current RPI of 6 [2/3, 7:30pm]......via a little help from PC today.
Richmond has played well the last month.
Davidson might take two years to get better.

The Philly schools were snake bit this year.
I thought GW would be better, hopefully next year........ditto Dayton.

Fordham and G. Mason will probably struggle again.

Most of all, we need a lot more Tier 1 and 2 victories.......we [A10] were really bad this year.

we "might" have a "slight" drop off? are you expecting maybe 10-1 after 11 conference games next year? maybe lose one tough road game? I like your optimism. :D
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

UCH21377 wrote:The AAC needs to expand just for the reasons noted above; fending off P5 poachers. I could see them expanding with both football and basketball schools and morphing into a large, wide-spread conference (kind of like the old Big East). Go get some good basketball schools (VCU, URI?) plus some football schools with decent basketball (Middle Tenn, UMass, Boise?), and position themselves as the best option to the P5 conferences.
How would your plan fend off P5 poachers? If they need a school they're still going after them and schools like UConn and Cincinnati would still bolt to a P5 conference in a cocaine heartbeat if given the chance. All you're doing is recreating the old Big East with worse schools and P5 schools had no problem poaching from the better version
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by steviep123 »

CT Rhody wrote:
PillPushr wrote:Well, the way I see it the only two conferences that may consider expansion in the near future are the Big 12 and the Big East. For as good as the Big 12 is in basketball, football is the main driver there. Honestly, the only two schools that I can see potentially fitting into that conference are AAC programs Cincinnati and Memphis. At that point, what would that trigger in the AAC? A total collapse of that conference, they attempt to add two D1 football programs (but who is really available that is even halfway decent?), or they somehow double down on getting some basketball only programs like Wichita State. The last option on there could potentially include some A10 schools (even us?).

The Big East is a basketball only conference, so if they were to expand it would likely be Dayton, Saint Louis, or potentially even long shot Gonzaga. Just out of interest, say the Big East poaches Dayton and SLU from the A10 to make their league a 12 team league. Who would the A10 add at that point?
The A-10 wouldn’t need to add. It should go down to a ten team conference and add sustainability metrics so all ten programs continue to compete at the high major level. That’s what needs to happen.

+1
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by UCH21377 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
UCH21377 wrote:The AAC needs to expand just for the reasons noted above; fending off P5 poachers. I could see them expanding with both football and basketball schools and morphing into a large, wide-spread conference (kind of like the old Big East). Go get some good basketball schools (VCU, URI?) plus some football schools with decent basketball (Middle Tenn, UMass, Boise?), and position themselves as the best option to the P5 conferences.
How would your plan fend off P5 poachers? If they need a school they're still going after them and schools like UConn and Cincinnati would still bolt to a P5 conference in a cocaine heartbeat if given the chance. All you're doing is recreating the old Big East with worse schools and P5 schools had no problem poaching from the better version
Agree but the point is they should get their replacements in place before the inevitable raid. And IMO I don't think it's going to be UConn any more. At this point Central Fl, Houston, Cinci among others are probably more attractive. And unless you're the NBE being a 10 team conference is risky business.
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UCH21377
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by UCH21377 »

BTW the old BE had a chance to stay viable if they had been proactive and approached the B12 remaining schools when Texas etc were preparing to move to the PAC12. Instead they did nothing and the conference fell apart. The AAC needs to remember that.
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RIFan
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Re: The State of the Atlantic 10

Unread post by RIFan »

RF1 wrote:The situation at LaSalle is troubling as well. The school is having financial difficulties and currently examining its sports programs and has not ruled out downgrading conferences. The money they earned (4 NCAA units) for the NCAA Sweet-16 run in 2013 will run out next year. The schools is so hard pressed for cash is has proposed selling off nearly 50 of its art museums prized works to raise several million dollars.

We see how difficult it is to fund a program at the required levels here at URI. We however are one of the larger enrollment schools in the league and play in one of the bigger capacity and nicer venues. It can't be easy for schools such as LaSalle, St Joe's, Duquesne, GW, Davidson, Fordham and SBU to fund their programs without a huge subsidy from student fees given their limited revenue potential. GW, Davidson, and Fordham might have an easier time than the others sustaining things given they are on much better financial footing. I however have to wonder about the others. Will they be able to keep up with the ever escalating costs to compete in a league such as the A-10?

Aside from my concerns about some of the smaller schools, the A-10 needs coaching stability in order for the A-10 to get back on the footing is has generally been on (averaging three NCAA bids per year for last 20 seasons). If coaches keep leaving the successful programs after short stints with regularity, we are going to see down years like this.
This is why Davidson's long term outlook in the A10 may not be great, as they have been fortunate to have a high quality coach stay for a very long time, things may not transpire the same when he is gone... as we know, the coach is the program at this level. Obviously the same can be said for every program, but RF1 is accurate that our smaller schools have an added layer to deal with.
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