4 Guard Rotation

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sbrand
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4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby sbrand » 2 months ago

Hi Everyone. It has been a long time since I posted, but probably have not missed a day on this amazing forum in 4 years.

Anyway, I have been tasked to write an article on Midmajor Madness about URI's highly anticipated 4 Guard Rotation this season.

I wanted to hear from you on the following topics:

Can it work?
What will it look like?
Which opponents can it thrive?
Which opponents are most challenging?
Some x and o observations
Who are the starting five?
And any other thoughts you may have

I would like to include your name if you would like to be acknowledged and attributed in the article. Other wise anonymous is fine.

Also, perhaps we can set up a poll.

According to my early research Kansas was the last notable team to have a 4 guard lineup last season.

Once again this is my favorite place to go to on the internet and between the high basketball IQ types, members who are hilarious, and people that provide solid intel, I commend you all
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rhodylaw
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby rhodylaw » 2 months ago

I think it will work out because Stan and Jared are elite level defenders. The celtics were relatives successful in the NBA last year because Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart could defend at multiple positions at a high level. I think we will see the same with Stan and Jared.
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Seawrightspostgame
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Seawrightspostgame » 2 months ago

Between Dowtin/EC/Stan and Jared's physique we have elite level length on the perimeter. And the shortest guy is strong as an ox and has been the best defender on the team during his 4 years.

Offensively they all do similar things in a slightly different fashion. They all break down their man off the dribble. Knock down an open shot if it is kicked to them. Plus they share the ball.

Should be exciting.
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Ramulous
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Ramulous » 2 months ago

Can it work? It has worked with other teams in the NCAA...Villanova comes to mind

What will it look like? Like modern college ball where there are very few legitimate low post big men who are featured parts of the team's offense...it seems to me that the three point shot is more popular than low post scoring

Which opponents can it thrive? I believe it will thrive against smaller teams and teams with plodding bigs

Which opponents are most challenging? Teams with quick players, both big and small

Some x and o observations Since we play exclusively man to man defense I see that the ability to defend the 4 and 5 spots will be a key in any strategy

Who are the starting five? I see Garrett, Terrell, Mathews, Robinson and Langevine. I can see swapping Akele for Robinson, Preston for Langevine and Dowtin for Garrett

And any other thoughts you may have Hoping we continue lat season's outcome and make it back to the NCAA's
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reef
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby reef » 2 months ago

We should see a lot of it for sure. Against big teams we will see some of it but not as much of it vs smaller teams
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NYGFan_Section208
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 2 months ago

Does Dowtin really not start? I mean, maybe he doesn't...but, seems like he could/should?
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bigappleram
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 months ago

I don't see Dowtin on the bench at tip off for Game 1. Not considering how he ended last season and also Jarvis's illness didn't go away so he seems like the 20-25 minute guy.
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rjsuperfly66
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby rjsuperfly66 » 2 months ago

There are pros and cons to running a 4 guard offense. You can beat many teams simply by being more athletic than them, and you are probably better with a 6'6/6'7 athlete than a 6'8/6'9 stiff manning the paint.

But let's not pretend there are not flaws ... People love to mention the 2016 Villanova team that won a National Championship... Their starting lineup was 6'2, 6'3, 6'5, 6'6, 6'11. I think what helped them is that Kris Jenkins at 6'6 was also 240 lbs and built like a brick wall. It also helped that they had a legitimate backup big on the bench in Darryl Reynolds.

So if the goal is to just make the tournament, an athletic 4 guard offense can totally do that. But after that, I think it's completely matchup based. If you get paired up with a 2017 UNC-type team, whose starting lineup was 6'0-6'6-6'8-6'8-6'9, with 6'7 and 6'10 coming off the bench, your team is destined to get destroyed on the glass on both sides and I think that is very difficult to overcome. Now, that's definitely a rarity, there are what, 5-10 teams who could do that?

The more realistic team model is that you'll find a team with 1 or 2 "big" guys. If you can own both those guys, or at least hold your own, the guard depth can make the necessary impact. If those big guys own your big guys (or at a minimum create foul trouble/frontcourt depth issues), that too is very hard to combat because those guys can begin to have a field day. But again let's be real, how many teams could even begin to offer that scenario? An additional 15-20?

And that's the beauty of March Madness, you could get a good run of personnel matchups and find yourself in the Elite 8, or you get a crummy matchup in the 1st round and you are one and done. And further, don't forget the potential value of the 4 guard -- very hard to guard for someone using a traditional lineup. Can destroy opponents in the pick and roll/pick and pop when everything is clicking. That's where the biggest advantage will be.

I think the key is to try to be multi-dimensional throughout the season -- You can't run a 4 guard offense for 25-30 minutes per game, and then expect to be able to change stylistically in the tournament to combat bigger teams. For that, I'm a fan of teams starting more traditional lineups - say 3 guards/2 "bigs" -- and see what happens from there. That's what the C's did last year (previously mentioned as a comp) -- they often started with Amir and Horford, but finished with Smart/Brown in Amir's spot.
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rhodylaw
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby rhodylaw » 2 months ago

Adding to the "hard to guard" we also feature lefty guards making them even harder to guard.
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UCH21377
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby UCH21377 » 2 months ago

I think the 4 guard offense is something that can be used in certain situations, not as the standard. It would be different if we had 6'6 or 6'7 guards but we don't. Trotting out a lineup of 5'10, 6'3, 6'4, 6'4 and 6'8 simply won't work in the long run, IMO.
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bigappleram
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 months ago

Only nuance to that is that we won't be trotting out 5'10" - we will be trotting out 6'3" PG Jeff Dowtin.
There is zero chance he isn't our starting PG when we tip off in November.
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UCH21377
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby UCH21377 » 2 months ago

BAR I agree that Dowtin should start. Earlier posts had Garrett in there so I left it. And going with Dowtin in a 4 guard offense does change that dynamic as it eliminates one defensive post-up problem. Still think the 4 guard lineup is a problem, especially against better teams who will slow the game down and pound the ball inside
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Billyboy78
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Billyboy78 » 2 months ago

Dowtin will start, but at times we will have a 5'10" PG and at other times a 5'8" PG.
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reef
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby reef » 2 months ago

Agree on Dowtin as a starter. Not a fan of the 4 guard lineup if it is used more than 50 % of the time, if it's used less than that to exploit matchups that is ok
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Rhodymob05 » 2 months ago

Aside from the logo, I'm with rjsuperfly on this. Well stated.
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Final4RamHottie
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Final4RamHottie » 2 months ago

Hi Everyone,

I am so excited for the season to start! :) This summer I watched a bit of the Pro-AM in Hartford (when visiting a friend) where KI played some. It was fun. I really love our team this year. Looking forward to attending a few games god willing. I kinda like our schedule. If not mistaken we may play Texas Tech correct? Today I googled KenPom just to see how teams finished last year ranked. TT was like #41. Then I looked at their roster and realize they may start 5 seniors. We can not under estimate TT if we play them. They are going to be REALLY good! Anyways I tend to be an extreme optimist hence my moniker name! Last year was the same way and we fell short of the FF. What team in the country has better guards then us? My dad says Kansas or Arizona/USC. He knows his stuff but I say URI!!! :) I mean Fatts is a baller and he may be our 5th or 6th best guard. Wow we are deep!

Thanks for a great message board. Hopefully we can share some great memories together this year. Maybe even meet up at the FF in San Antonio?

Warmest to All!!!
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

sbrand wrote:Hi Everyone. It has been a long time since I posted, but probably have not missed a day on this amazing forum in 4 years.
Anyway, I have been tasked to write an article on Midmajor Madness about URI's highly anticipated 4 Guard Rotation this season.
I wanted to hear from you on the following topics:

Can it work?
Does this line up with 4 Guards win the A10 Tournament and gain a NCAA Tournament Slot? No, imho, therefore it does not work since the NCAA Tournament is the Goal.

What will it look like?
Dowtin PG
Terrell G
Robinson G
Mathews G/F
Langevine F.
Mathews will need to hit the boards playing in a G/F type position. In Creighton game Mathews had 9 rebounds in the A10 Championship vs VCU and then 7 rebounds in the NCAA Victory over Creighton - need that from him in a 4 guard line up. Mathews also had 9 rebounds in the huge win @ Davidson. He has gotten stronger and showed a good toughness in the A10 and NCAA Tournaments in rebounding.
Dowtin starts. He had 23 points, 10-10 FTs in the huge win over Creighton. Has good leadership skills, maturity, passes well, moves the ball, gets others involved. Don't see him losing a Starting Spot after how he played last February and March.

Which opponents can it thrive?
I don't believe it thrives against anyone

Which opponents are most challenging?
OOC: Nevada, Alabama, Virginia, Vanderbilt, Seton Hall, PC
A10: Dayton, VCU, St Louis, George Mason, George Washington


Some x and o observations:
Will be a battle for Playing time in the guard positions between Dowtin, Mathews, Terrell, Robinson, Garrett and Russell.
Also will be a battle for the 2 Big Man Positions for Playing time. Langevine provides tough rebounding but we need offense from the other F position. Martin and Iverson provided offensive punch inside - need offense to come from among Akele, Berry, Preston, Layssard and Tertsea. My guess is Akele and Berry battle over the other starting forward slot. Maybe Preston, Layssard and/or Tertsea surprise - will be fun to watch this play out. I have never seen a URI Team stocked with so many 4 star and 3 star players. In previous regime, a 3 star would always be in the starting line up. Our depth is definitely a strength and allows for these positional battles for Playing Time.


Who are the starting five?
Dowtin PG
Mathews G
Terrell G
Langevine F
Berry F

1st Guard off bench: 1)Robinson. Good flexibility with him. 2)Garrett 2nd G in, Russell 3rd G in but will push for Playing time as season progresses - will be tough to keep him off the court
2nd Big Man off bench: 1)Akele, 2)Preston, 3)Layssard, 4)Tertsea.


And any other thoughts you may have:
Very talented team. Will be interesting to watch this season unfold. The competition will only make everyone better. All players know they must produce to earn Playing Time. We need 2 to 3 of the big men to play well. Rebounding, Defense, Shot Blocking, Scoring will be needed form the Big Men. Berry's offensive skills could possibly be a good combination with Langevine's Rebounding and Defensive skills - BUT Berry needs to improve defense and Langevine needs to improve offense to make this a A10 Championship Team.



I would like to include your name if you would like to be acknowledged and attributed in the article. Other wise anonymous is fine.
Also, perhaps we can set up a poll.
According to my early research Kansas was the last notable team to have a 4 guard lineup last season.
Once again this is my favorite place to go to on the internet and between the high basketball IQ types, members who are hilarious, and people that provide solid intel, I commend you all
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Final4RamHottie
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Final4RamHottie » 2 months ago

Wow...We don't play TT I am sorry. My girlfriend told me URI was playing at Mohegan but that is a different tourney. We play in Brooklyn.

Anyways my bad. Alabama and Nevada on the road will be super tough. Seton Hall in the Pre-Season NIT would be tough. I am hoping for 5-1 in the OOC games mentioned by Ramster. 4-2 could happen.
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Ramulous
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Ramulous » 2 months ago

Nice fake picture Final4

I hope you prove to be legit as a poster here
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Final4RamHottie
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Final4RamHottie » 2 months ago

Ramulous wrote:Nice fake picture Fina
I hope you prove to be legit as a poster here


Why do you say that? I will remove and not post much. See ya.
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Ramulous
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Ramulous » 2 months ago

Boom
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Final4RamHottie
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Final4RamHottie » 2 months ago

Ramulous wrote:Boom


I took MY pic down and told you I wouldn't post much and now you give a BOOM treat to me? Are you serious???

Mods don't ban a poster like this? Sick...How is this not a threat? wtf...smh. How is this representative of Rhode Island hoops or is it?
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Final4RamHottie
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Final4RamHottie » 2 months ago

Final4RamHottie wrote:
Ramulous wrote:Boom


I took MY pic down and told you I wouldn't post much and now you give a BOOM treat to me? Are you serious???

Mods don't ban a poster like this? Sick...How is this not a threat? wtf...smh. How is this representative of Rhode Island hoops or is it?


***Threat not treat.
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Mongo
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Mongo » 2 months ago

Final4RamHottie wrote:Hi Everyone,

I am so excited for the season to start! :) This summer I watched a bit of the Pro-AM in Hartford (when visiting a friend) where KI played some. It was fun. I really love our team this year. Looking forward to attending a few games god willing. I kinda like our schedule. If not mistaken we may play Texas Tech correct? Today I googled KenPom just to see how teams finished last year ranked. TT was like #41. Then I looked at their roster and realize they may start 5 seniors. We can not under estimate TT if we play them. They are going to be REALLY good! Anyways I tend to be an extreme optimist hence my moniker name! Last year was the same way and we fell short of the FF. What team in the country has better guards then us? My dad says Kansas or Arizona/USC. He knows his stuff but I say URI!!! :) I mean Fatts is a baller and he may be our 5th or 6th best guard. Wow we are deep!

Thanks for a great message board. Hopefully we can share some great memories together this year. Maybe even meet up at the FF in San Antonio?

Warmest to All!!!


I thought this was a good, real post, minus the TT comment, honest mistake. Keep posting, don't take the "boom" comment as something bad, I think we are all still trying to figure out if his booms are good or bad. Btw, I hope we make it San Antonio, I am in the final 4 ticket lottery and would love to see our Rams playing in SA.
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Ramulous
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Ramulous » 2 months ago

No threat don't run away. Prove you are a fan
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NYGFan_Section208
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 2 months ago

wow....just when I thought...actually...I don't know what I was thinking....
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TruePoint
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby TruePoint » 2 months ago

Final4RamHottie wrote:
Ramulous wrote:Boom


I took MY pic down and told you I wouldn't post much and now you give a BOOM treat to me? Are you serious???

Mods don't ban a poster like this? Sick...How is this not a threat? wtf...smh. How is this representative of Rhode Island hoops or is it?


If I can step in here, I think you're reading something into "Boom" that isn't there. It certainly isn't threatening. The poster that posted it is one of the longest tenured posters and has never caused a problem on this board in the 10 years or so that I've been a part of this community. So no, that poster isn't going to be banned for saying "boom" and I'm not even sure how that could be interpreted in a way that a person would consider threatening.

Having said that, this board has from time to time had fans of other teams come here posing as URI fans (yes, there are people that lonely and sad out there, apparently), so it isn't personal against you that new posters are regarded with some skepticism. If you're a legit fan, it'll pass quickly. So keep posting and don't worry about initial pushback. I can tell you beyond any question, though, that ramulous was not threatening you. I think he was taking your "I will remove and not post as much" as an indication that he pegged you right, hence "Boom."
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reef
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby reef » 2 months ago

I would like to see Preston starting so my starters
Dowtin
EC
Jared
Preston
Cyril
Stan instant offense 6th man
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

Reef,
I think with Cyril at the other Forward spot we need the other forward to be more offensive capable, so that is why I think Berry could be the guy. Preston is a rebounder and defensive minded guy, similar in some ways to Langevine. Preston did not typically start on his JUCO team so I have a tough time seeing him start for URI. But let the competition begin as competition will help to develop and bring out the best in all the Big men.
I agree with you that 2 big men need to be in the starting line up
From among Langevine, Preston, Berry, Akele, Tertsea and Layssard we should see the 2 best big men of the six emerge. Will be interesting to see how this plays out with Martin and Iverson leaving big shoes to fill. That's what makes college basketball so interesting and fun - the frequent turnover of players.

I also like that Hurley has thrown out the idea of a 4 guard line up. Keeps the opponents guessing, keeps the fans, players and potential recruits all guessing too. So the guards are pushing for playing time that is typically owned by the big men - so in a way the guards are also putting pressure on the URI big men to step up - or they (the guards) will take some of their PT - I like the concept because it makes the guards believe that up to 4 starting positions are open to them, but in the end, I don't like the idea of playing 4 guards, not with NCAA Tournament hopes on the line this season.

I'm confident we will see some surprise performances from our big men, simply because we know bigs take longer to develop and we have not seen several of them with any or any significant playing time before
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

Mongo wrote:
Final4RamHottie wrote:Hi Everyone,

I am so excited for the season to start! :) This summer I watched a bit of the Pro-AM in Hartford (when visiting a friend) where KI played some. It was fun. I really love our team this year. Looking forward to attending a few games god willing. I kinda like our schedule. If not mistaken we may play Texas Tech correct? Today I googled KenPom just to see how teams finished last year ranked. TT was like #41. Then I looked at their roster and realize they may start 5 seniors. We can not under estimate TT if we play them. They are going to be REALLY good! Anyways I tend to be an extreme optimist hence my moniker name! Last year was the same way and we fell short of the FF. What team in the country has better guards then us? My dad says Kansas or Arizona/USC. He knows his stuff but I say URI!!! :) I mean Fatts is a baller and he may be our 5th or 6th best guard. Wow we are deep!

Thanks for a great message board. Hopefully we can share some great memories together this year. Maybe even meet up at the FF in San Antonio?

Warmest to All!!!


I thought this was a good, real post, minus the TT comment, honest mistake. Keep posting, don't take the "boom" comment as something bad, I think we are all still trying to figure out if his booms are good or bad. Btw, I hope we make it San Antonio, I am in the final 4 ticket lottery and would love to see our Rams playing in SA.


Final4RamHottie joined the board a year ago, is not a new poster. She does not post much, so she could be assumed to be a new poster but she is not.
Her posts were positive, even when the board turned quite negative when the team lost its Top 25 ranking last year.

The troll poster(s) that shows up here from time to time I think could be the same individual because the writing style and the meanness that is present. It makes us think new (or unfamiliar) names could be that same troll.

I think you should post freely Final4RamHottie, start over and put your picture back :)

GO RHODY!!
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Ramulous
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Ramulous » 2 months ago

If all is true about Final4 then I apologize for my skepticism....I never threaten anyone in any way, shape or form.....please post freely and often...as a father of a young woman I would advise against putting your real picture anywhere on the internet, however....
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Smokinjimit
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Smokinjimit » 2 months ago

It wouldn't surprise me to see a five guard line up at the end of games if we are up by more than one possession. Downtin, Garret, EC, Terrell, Robinson would create tough matchups for a team trying to come back using the 3 point shot. That line up wouldn't work long term but if you are up it might be a killer. Especially the way all 5 of those guys shot from the line at the end of last season.

Imagine trying to force a turnover at the end of a game against 5 guys who can handle the ball, shoot the 3 and get to the hoop off the dribble.
There may not be another team in the country that can do that.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 2 months ago

Ramulous wrote:If all is true about Final4 then I apologize for my skepticism....I never threaten anyone in any way, shape or form.....please post freely and often...as a father of a young woman I would advise against putting your real picture anywhere on the internet, however....


I agree.

Signed,
FatWalletMovieStarLooksGuy
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Roz
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Roz » 2 months ago

I like preston starting for rebounding...man I like this problem..too many good players
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 months ago

There is no way Berry starts with Langevine...not enough ball skills between the two of them to make the offense work. The 4-man is going to come from Akele or Preston IMO, that is if we don't start 4 guards and go from there.
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

Preston is not a strong offensive player and neither is Langevine, at least at this point in time. I think Berry has more ball skills than either Langevine or Preston plus he is a good shooter and has solid inside moves. Berry has not problems scoring the ball.
I don't know if we go with 4 guards or 3. If someone from the Big men candidates really steps up then that is the best picture. If someone does not and our best line up is 4 guards then so be it. But we will struggle with the all of the Top 100 RPI Teams on our schedule. I would say with 4 guards our odds for a Bid are lower than last year's team..
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 2 months ago

If Berry starts...I might eat my hat. I just don't think Hurls - with all his emphasis on D - is going to start a guy that hasn't yet shown that he's capable of checking a fire hydrant...
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

For what it's worth, Mathews and Terrell did not start in Bahamas. Starters were the same in both games. Dowtin, Garrett, Langevine, Akele and Robinson
Berry led the team in scoring with 33 points off the bench in only 30 minutes played. Berry hit 15-20 FGs.

Game 1 Bahamas vs NPBA All Stars
Starters:
Cyril Langevine
Stanford Robinson
Jarvis Garrett
Jeff Dowtin
Nicola Akele
Berry played 11 minutes, 7-10 FG, 1-1 on 3FG, 1-3 FT, 1 reb, 16 points to lead URI
Langevine played 15 minutes, 5-8 FG, 5-6 FT, 9 reb, 2 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 15 points
Preston played 14 minutes, 4-10 FG, 0-1 FT, 11 rebounds, 1 assist, 8 points
Akele played 21 minutes 2-6 FG, 8 reb, 2 blocks, 4 points
Mike Layssard played 15 minutes, 4-7 FG, 0-1 on 3FG, 2-3 FT, 6 reb, 1 block, 10 points
Michael Tertsea played 2.5 minutes, 1-2 FG, 2 points
Robinson (potential 4th G or F/G) played 26 minutes, 1-4 FG, 1-2 FT, 10 reb, 6 assists, 3 steals, 3 points


Game 2 vs Bahamas All Stars
Starters:
Cyril Langevine
Stanford Robinson
Jarvis Garrett
Jeff Dowtin
Nicola Akele
Berry played 19 minutes, 8-10 FG, 1-2 FT, 6 reb, 17 points to tie for lead with Terrell
Langevine played 12 minutes, 6-9 FG, 2-2 FT, 8 reb, 2 steals, 14 points
Preston played 18 minutes, 3-6 FG, 2-2 FT, 8 reb, 2 assist, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 8 points
Akele played 16 minutes 3-7 FG, 0-1 on 3FG, 2-3 FT, 6 reb, 1 steal, 8 points
Mike Layssard played 13 minutes, 3-6 FG, 0-1 on 3FG, 2-3 FT, 6 reb, 6 points
Michael Tertsea played 6 minutes, 5-6 FG, 4 reb, 10 points
Robinson (potential 4th G or F/G) played 17 minutes, 2-9 FG, 0-1 on 3FG, 4-7 FT, 5 reb, 1 steals, 8 points
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:If Berry starts...I might eat my hat. I just don't think Hurls - with all his emphasis on D - is going to start a guy that hasn't yet shown that he's capable of checking a fire hydrant...


But Berry has come in having lost weight yet again in this off-season, plus EC Mathews, in an interview talked about how impressed he was with Berry's play this summer.
Berry may not start, but my guess is he plays a lot more this season. Fact that Akele started both games with langevine in the Bahamas may be an indicator of that. My money would be on Akele.
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steveystuds06
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby steveystuds06 » 2 months ago

I think anyone that has watched Berry play knows he can score... The question is can Berry defend well enough to get major minutes.

He lost plenty of weight last year but still had problems against athletic bigs and quicker players.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby Rhody74 » 2 months ago

steveystuds06 wrote:I think anyone that has watched Berry play knows he can score... The question is can Berry defend well enough to get major minutes.

He lost plenty of weight last year but still had problems against athletic bigs and quicker players.

I thought he looked signifucantly quicker (and thinner) at the open practice. Of course games are different, but I am hopeful he will be a solid contributor even if he doesn't start.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby reef » 2 months ago

Yeah I don't think Berry starts either but should get a decent amount of time in the rotation. DH is mostly a defensive guy so I think that keeps Berry out of the starting lineup
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

steveystuds06 wrote:I think anyone that has watched Berry play knows he can score... The question is can Berry defend well enough to get major minutes.

He lost plenty of weight last year but still had problems against athletic bigs and quicker players.


Yes he lost weight last year but then even more this season. He is determined to contribute to this team. I think he has as good a chance to play the 2nd big spot as anyone except Akele who I think has the inside line.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 months ago

Berry will be a sub for Langevine, can't see them both in game at the same time. The 4 is the position that is most in flux, a 4th guard, Akele, Preston are likely top contenders at this point.
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ramster
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

Agree, Akele is the likely 4th starter, unless the much talked about here 4 guard offense ends up the rule.
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CTRamfan
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby CTRamfan » 2 months ago

Don't you think most alignments will be determined by the game flow?

I really respect the coaches game plans and in game moves [with few exceptions]. I can't begin to think I could outsmart him though.
.....That said, his choice for game pace, rebounding, shooting percentage will all dictate his strategy. Each opponent presents different problems.
.....When I look at the roster, these are players that can play an all round game, in multiple alignments. - Terrell, Garrett, Robinson, Mathews, Dowtin, Akele, Langavine. These are my guess as to the core group that will play most often in "crunch time". Next in Berry. Hopefully by mid-season the two new players are competition ready.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby ramster » 2 months ago

CTRamfan wrote:Don't you think most alignments will be determined by the game flow?

I really respect the coaches game plans and in game moves [with few exceptions]. I can't begin to think I could outsmart him though.
.....That said, his choice for game pace, rebounding, shooting percentage will all dictate his strategy. Each opponent presents different problems.
.....When I look at the roster, these are players that can play an all round game, in multiple alignments. - Terrell, Garrett, Robinson, Mathews, Dowtin, Akele, Langavine. These are my guess as to the core group that will play most often in "crunch time". Next in Berry. Hopefully by mid-season the two new players are competition ready.


Sure, but there were the specific questions asked at the beginning of the thread. I think the question getting the most discussion in is the "Who are the starting 5? It's an interesting question.

Can it work?
What will it look like?
Which opponents can it thrive?
Which opponents are most challenging?
Some x and o observations
Who are the starting five?
And any other thoughts you may have
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby CTRamfan » 2 months ago

I think it will be a "fly by the seat of your pants" season.......New OOC opponents. A number of new A10 coaches. Last year's officiating changes have limited some defensive options.
.....Four guards might work in many situations, but I don't think he will play any one style. I guess what I am trying to say, is, the players that give him the most versatility will play the most.
.....For sure Terrell will play a lot, maybe 28-30mpg.
.....Garrett does everything well, but is limited to guarding point guards.
.....E.C. can score in most offensive sets, and can guard 2s and most 3s.
..... Langavine is a pure post player, i.e., defend, rebound, and put back.....staying out of foul trouble will be his biggest hurdle.
.....Akele is the most versatile front court player. Can be a 3 or 4. I am calling him a 3 most often, hence "four guard rotation" with these as starters.

.....Robinson is a "pace changer". He pushes the ball on offense, and defends well.
.....Dowtin is "mister reliable". His role this year will depend on Garrett's health.
.....Berry's role will depend on Langevine's foul troubles.
.....Preston will be the primary 4/5 filler inner.
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby bigappleram » 2 months ago

I agree that game flow and matchups will drive a lot of the lineup decisions.

I disagree that Dowtin's role will depend on Jarvis's health. I think Jarvis's role will depend on Jarvis's health.
Jeff Dowtin is our starting PG when we tip off Game 1. In fact I have heard he has looked like our most complete guard in summer workouts and in Bahamas. We are talking about a kid going into his sophomore year, when the most improvement tends to happen, and who was the MVP of our 1st tournament victory in 20 years. His role is cemented IMO, and he will have to be a big part of our success this year if we are to achieve our goals (back to the tourney, win some games).
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Re: 4 Guard Rotation

Unread postby NYGFan_Section208 » 2 months ago

CTRamfan wrote:I think it will be a "fly by the seat of your pants" season.......New OOC opponents. A number of new A10 coaches. Last year's officiating changes have limited some defensive options.
.....Four guards might work in many situations, but I don't think he will play any one style. I guess what I am trying to say, is, the players that give him the most versatility will play the most.
.....For sure Terrell will play a lot, maybe 28-30mpg.
.....Garrett does everything well, but is limited to guarding point guards.
.....E.C. can score in most offensive sets, and can guard 2s and most 3s.
..... Langavine is a pure post player, i.e., defend, rebound, and put back.....staying out of foul trouble will be his biggest hurdle.
.....Akele is the most versatile front court player. Can be a 3 or 4. I am calling him a 3 most often, hence "four guard rotation" with these as starters.

.....Robinson is a "pace changer". He pushes the ball on offense, and defends well.
.....Dowtin is "mister reliable". His role this year will depend on Garrett's health.
.....Berry's role will depend on Langevine's foul troubles.
.....Preston will be the primary 4/5 filler inner.


Mostly agree...except I see:
.....Preston's role will depend on Langevine's foul troubles.
.....Preston will be the primary 4/5 filler inner.

Until Berry shows he can guard someone...I really don't see him playing that much. Will he play more than last year?
Well, it would be hard to play less, seeing how it looks like he had about 70 minutes of playing time all year.
With Hurls as jacked up as he is about strong D...still not seeing much Berry time on the horizon.

Dowtin is the primary point guard and will get the most minutes unless he plays himself out of the role...don't see any connection between his PT and JG's health...
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