Wichita State Moves to the AAC

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rhodylaw
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rhodylaw »

Umm..I think that we are missing the big point here, WSU wants a new home, why can't the A10 be that new home! League officials better be on the phone letting them know that we offer way better compensation for NCAA tourney credits than the AAC and while we have some bottom feeders, nothing like the AAC. Plus the best teams in the AAC will leave the first chance they get, leaving you in a league with the worst of the old Conference USA.

Add WSU to the A10 and I feel good about our league going forward.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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rhodylaw wrote:Umm..I think that we are missing the big point here, WSU wants a new home, why can't the A10 be that new home! League officials better be on the phone letting them know that we offer way better compensation for NCAA tourney credits than the AAC and while we have some bottom feeders, nothing like the AAC. Plus the best teams in the AAC will leave the first chance they get, leaving you in a league with the worst of the old Conference USA.

Add WSU to the A10 and I feel good about our league going forward.
Because they're 500 miles west of the western-most school in the conference, which is already 400 miles west of the 2nd most western school in the conference.

If you want to try and appease those western schools with travel budgets, adding another really far trip for them to make isn't the way to do it. Dayton is literally the midpoint between URI and WSU. This isn't a feasible solution.

HILARIOUS though about the MVC board that they'd somehow get schools like VCU, Dayton and St Marys to just abandon their NCAA credits to go to a shitty 1 bid conference with no TV deal and abandon geographical conferences to form a "super conference" as a courtesy to all their shitty schools? I had to re-read that twice to make sure it wasn't a joke or a wet dream or something.

Holy good God I thought our fans were delusional. Let me give my A-10 proposal:

West: UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Dayton, St Louis, Pitt, Kansas

East: URI, UMass, VCU, Richmond, GW, Duke, Villanova, La Salle

I think we'd jump past the Pac 12 and a few other conferences too with the teams they'd lose. Definitely makes a lot of sense for all schools involved.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

At first I thought your conference idea was crazy. I mean would Duke really give up their rivalry with North Carolina? But then I remembered how similar our colors, mascot and fight song were, so I'm not really seeing any issues with this new conference forming.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Replace Colorado with the Zags...
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Gonzaga coach Mark Few has said recently that they are keeping an open mind about possibly switching conferences. They aren't happy that only them, St. Mary's, and BYU are making serious commitments to basketball in their conference. Too many anchors dragging down the rest.

Sounds familiar to what Dayton and VCU people are saying about the A10. Few also said that he thinks it would be a great idea if the BE expanded westward. Sounds like they might want to join sometime imo.....

College BB is rapidly before our eyes becoming a have/have not sport. Either you're spending the big bucks or you will become no longer relevant in a hurry. Mid majors are being caught in the middle. Either commit to be really good, or wither on the vine and play on a street corner somewhere.

Conference makeup will eventually reflect this, not too many years down the road. URI might have to either leave the A10 to join a better existing conference, or become part of a new one, in order to have any hopes of being a player on the national stage.

At least URI now seems to be positioning itself to be a good candidate to join a better conference if it becomes necessary to do so.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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The only thing that URI can control is the aspects of their own program. We made a good start with the construction of the Ryan Center, but since then further commitments have been made at a snail's pace. We need better salaries for coaches and staff, we need better budget money for travel, recruiting and other amenities and then we need a state-of-the-art practice facility. The first items are budgetary and the last one is a capital outlay and is the elephant in the room given the negative aspect of the RI citizenry. The big flap over the a possible new PawSox stadium is just one example of this negativity and shortsightedness. I just returned from a visit to some relatives who live just south of Houston close to the NASA Space center and nearby is a brand new $39 million,10,000 seat high school football stadium complete with non-grass surface, lights, and a two level press box. Beautiful edifice that was approved by 70% of the electorate. That doesn't happen in RI, not at the high school level nor at our flagship university.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Wonder if Rhody FB could get a pay date there?
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Wonder if Rhody FB could get a pay date there?
We'd probably only lose by 50, might be worth it.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rhodylaw »

Blue Man wrote:
rhodylaw wrote:Umm..I think that we are missing the big point here, WSU wants a new home, why can't the A10 be that new home! League officials better be on the phone letting them know that we offer way better compensation for NCAA tourney credits than the AAC and while we have some bottom feeders, nothing like the AAC. Plus the best teams in the AAC will leave the first chance they get, leaving you in a league with the worst of the old Conference USA.

Add WSU to the A10 and I feel good about our league going forward.
Because they're 500 miles west of the western-most school in the conference, which is already 400 miles west of the 2nd most western school in the conference.

If you want to try and appease those western schools with travel budgets, adding another really far trip for them to make isn't the way to do it. Dayton is literally the midpoint between URI and WSU. This isn't a feasible solution.

HILARIOUS though about the MVC board that they'd somehow get schools like VCU, Dayton and St Marys to just abandon their NCAA credits to go to a shitty 1 bid conference with no TV deal and abandon geographical conferences to form a "super conference" as a courtesy to all their shitty schools? I had to re-read that twice to make sure it wasn't a joke or a wet dream or something.

Holy good God I thought our fans were delusional. Let me give my A-10 proposal:

West: UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Dayton, St Louis, Pitt, Kansas

East: URI, UMass, VCU, Richmond, GW, Duke, Villanova, La Salle

I think we'd jump past the Pac 12 and a few other conferences too with the teams they'd lose. Definitely makes a lot of sense for all schools involved.
So they are going to conference with exactly 2 schools under 500 miles from their campus. And the best program in that league is Uconn followed by Cincy and Memphis, all of which will jump ship to a better football conference when they get a chance, leaving WSU with a 2000 mile trips to such great basketball powers as East Carolina and South Florida, Tulane, etc. yes we have couple bottle feeders, but not as bad as that.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

rambone 78 wrote:
Conference makeup will eventually reflect this, not too many years down the road. URI might have to either leave the A10 to join a better existing conference, or become part of a new one, in order to have any hopes of being a player on the national stage.
Where are they going?
The problem with realignment is that while talent and success is a big factor, and equally big factor is arena attendance, and geography (physical and through TV ratings).
The Big East is never going to take URI, it's the unwritten clause about only having one team from one area (IE - Nova doesn't want a Philly team, X doesn't want Dayton, etc.).
Not that I agree with it, but that is what it is.
Even if that didn't exist, what are the odds they take a 2nd team from such a small television market?
You can't go 67% capacity in a small arena in a near historic year, and expect that invite.
It has to be earned through fan support and on-court results.
That leaves the AAC, and the AAC doesn't even know how many basketball programs it wants to expand to, heck there is talk about Wichita trying to rebuild it's football program and how that may have factored into their inclusion.
URI needs the fan support, and even more than that, prolonged on-court results, to even get into this discussion.
It wasn't more than 5 years ago they were one of these teams sitting at the bottom of the A10 for multiple years with horrific losing records.
People don't forget that overnight.
For all of that, their best chance is to fix the existing conference, rather than try to find partners to build a new one.
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rambone 78
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rambone 78 »

66, at this point you're right, URI isn't going anywhere. But a few years down the road, when more changes are likely to take place, then something could happen.

URI has to build on this season, keep dancing and keep improving their facilities. As for attendance that will hopefully increase also.

Right now I'd say that we're a distant 3rd in the A10 behind VCU and Dayton as far as a program....and St. Louis will be there too.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:
Conference makeup will eventually reflect this, not too many years down the road. URI might have to either leave the A10 to join a better existing conference, or become part of a new one, in order to have any hopes of being a player on the national stage.
Where are they going?
The problem with realignment is that while talent and success is a big factor, and equally big factor is arena attendance, and geography (physical and through TV ratings).
The Big East is never going to take URI, it's the unwritten clause about only having one team from one area (IE - Nova doesn't want a Philly team, X doesn't want Dayton, etc.).
Not that I agree with it, but that is what it is.
Even if that didn't exist, what are the odds they take a 2nd team from such a small television market?
You can't go 67% capacity in a small arena in a near historic year, and expect that invite.
It has to be earned through fan support and on-court results.
That leaves the AAC, and the AAC doesn't even know how many basketball programs it wants to expand to, heck there is talk about Wichita trying to rebuild it's football program and how that may have factored into their inclusion.
URI needs the fan support, and even more than that, prolonged on-court results, to even get into this discussion.
It wasn't more than 5 years ago they were one of these teams sitting at the bottom of the A10 for multiple years with horrific losing records.
People don't forget that overnight.
For all of that, their best chance is to fix the existing conference, rather than try to find partners to build a new one.
Glass houses.....

2015-16 Attendance (they havent released this year yet)

in NYC:

Seton Hall - 7,070 avg attendance, 37.6% capacity
St Johns - 6,994 avg attendance, 33.6% capacity

in Chicago:

DePaul - 5,513 avg attendance, 29.7% capacity

in DC:

Georgetown - 8,879 avg attendance, 48.5% capacity
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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It's official
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Jon Rothstein‏ @JonRothstein
BREAKING: The American Athletic Conference has voted to add Wichita State for the 2017-18 season, per source.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:
Conference makeup will eventually reflect this, not too many years down the road. URI might have to either leave the A10 to join a better existing conference, or become part of a new one, in order to have any hopes of being a player on the national stage.
You can't go 67% capacity in a small arena in a near historic year, and expect that invite.
It has to be earned through fan support and on-court results.
Glass houses.....
Glass house? Georgetown, DePaul, St. John's, and Seton Hall are all in a conference that they are happy with. They are not looking to move or create another conference. If they were looking to venture out and do their own thing, some of them would likely have problems (namely DePaul and SHU), but they aren't and therefore their marketability isn't as important as the overall success of the conference. Putting teams in the tournament is what will get the Big East another good TV contract, and make them an attractive landing spot for every basketball school without P5 aspirations.

But if the A10 was putting 70% of their teams in the tournament, or a 4 year rolling average of 55%, would URI or the A10 expanding/removing members even be a topic? Of course not. URI is already at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to not being from a major market, which makes it more important to sell out the RC and compete on the court to be able to put themselves in a position similar to Dayton if there was ever the opportunity to move in the future.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by Blue Man »

rhodylaw wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
rhodylaw wrote:Umm..I think that we are missing the big point here, WSU wants a new home, why can't the A10 be that new home! League officials better be on the phone letting them know that we offer way better compensation for NCAA tourney credits than the AAC and while we have some bottom feeders, nothing like the AAC. Plus the best teams in the AAC will leave the first chance they get, leaving you in a league with the worst of the old Conference USA.

Add WSU to the A10 and I feel good about our league going forward.
Because they're 500 miles west of the western-most school in the conference, which is already 400 miles west of the 2nd most western school in the conference.

If you want to try and appease those western schools with travel budgets, adding another really far trip for them to make isn't the way to do it. Dayton is literally the midpoint between URI and WSU. This isn't a feasible solution.

HILARIOUS though about the MVC board that they'd somehow get schools like VCU, Dayton and St Marys to just abandon their NCAA credits to go to a shitty 1 bid conference with no TV deal and abandon geographical conferences to form a "super conference" as a courtesy to all their shitty schools? I had to re-read that twice to make sure it wasn't a joke or a wet dream or something.

Holy good God I thought our fans were delusional. Let me give my A-10 proposal:

West: UCLA, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Dayton, St Louis, Pitt, Kansas

East: URI, UMass, VCU, Richmond, GW, Duke, Villanova, La Salle

I think we'd jump past the Pac 12 and a few other conferences too with the teams they'd lose. Definitely makes a lot of sense for all schools involved.
So they are going to conference with exactly 2 schools under 500 miles from their campus. And the best program in that league is Uconn followed by Cincy and Memphis, all of which will jump ship to a better football conference when they get a chance, leaving WSU with a 2000 mile trips to such great basketball powers as East Carolina and South Florida, Tulane, etc. yes we have couple bottle feeders, but not as bad as that.
Oh I don't mean for WSU - they're going to a conference with football money. Travel expenses for a basketball team in the AAC are a drop in the bucket. Charter flights are the norm in those conferences. They probably have it into their agreement that the conference will pick up that tab amongst other things since they'll be leaving their NCAA credits behind in the MVC.

I'm talking for the A10. Most of our schools (including us until Dan's contract extension that stipulates we have chartered flights for road games) don't have that kind of a travel budget. Getting 1 perennial NCAA tournament team will generate your conference money, but the cost-benefit to the individual schools when you consider what they make per A10 credit, versus what they would have to increase in spending to play a game or two that far away, is in the red.

Again, college athletics is a business. I feel like everyone easily forgets that. It's not as simple as the on-court activity.

If you want to help solidify the western members of the A10 it has to be beneficial both on the court and for all the other peripheral factors. Geographically URI/Richmond/VCU/GW/UMass/Fordham/La Salle/St Joes/George Mason/Davidson aren't going to approve a member that would make them go further west than St Louis. Honestly, even the western schools like Bonnies, Duquesne, Dayton aren't going to want to travel that far.

Dayton and SLU used to have Xavier, then Butler in addition to Duquesne for another regional game. You can even count the Bonnies in there. You need to find another team within that georgraphy.

My thought would be Valparasio. Always a good school that's right on the cusp of an at-large if they don't win their conference. Serious commitment to basketball. Geographically sensible. 1AA football in a separate conference. Facilities in-line with the conference.

The A10 isn't the sexy conference that a team like Wichita State would eye, but it'd be a step-up from the Horizon for Valpo, who's a team that can be an at-large with the help of a higher level conference.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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The AAC does not get big football money that can subsidize other non football sports. The tv media distribution to each school at most is about 2M/year. Most of this revenue is tied to football rights but it does not even come close to covering just football expenses. As a point of reference, each Big Ten member gets approx 32M/year from media rights. Even Big East members, with no football, get approximately 4M/year from Fox.

The AAC also gets far less from the new College Football Playoff system. Each Power-5 conference gets 50 million to distribute while just 60 million is paid out to all the non P-5 conferences combined to distribute.

Revenues from media rights and football playoffs (AAC members were once part of the BCS alliance) have also been in decline. Making matters worse, the AAC members from the old Big East will soon be seeing breakup money running dry. The Catholic schools left all their NCAA units behind and paid the AAC for rights to the Big East name. There was a substantial amount of money left behind which has helped prop up UConn, Cincinnati, and USF. It will soon disappear.

There is a huge chasm between the money that P-5 members get versus everyone outside their group.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Valparaiso hmmmm

Good call
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by the_one_mike »

Blue Man wrote: Oh I don't mean for WSU - they're going to a conference with football money. Travel expenses for a basketball team in the AAC are a drop in the bucket. Charter flights are the norm in those conferences. They probably have it into their agreement that the conference will pick up that tab amongst other things since they'll be leaving their NCAA credits behind in the MVC.

I'm talking for the A10. Most of our schools (including us until Dan's contract extension that stipulates we have chartered flights for road games) don't have that kind of a travel budget. Getting 1 perennial NCAA tournament team will generate your conference money, but the cost-benefit to the individual schools when you consider what they make per A10 credit, versus what they would have to increase in spending to play a game or two that far away, is in the red.

Again, college athletics is a business. I feel like everyone easily forgets that. It's not as simple as the on-court activity.

If you want to help solidify the western members of the A10 it has to be beneficial both on the court and for all the other peripheral factors. Geographically URI/Richmond/VCU/GW/UMass/Fordham/La Salle/St Joes/George Mason/Davidson aren't going to approve a member that would make them go further west than St Louis. Honestly, even the western schools like Bonnies, Duquesne, Dayton aren't going to want to travel that far.

Dayton and SLU used to have Xavier, then Butler in addition to Duquesne for another regional game. You can even count the Bonnies in there. You need to find another team within that georgraphy.

My thought would be Valparasio. Always a good school that's right on the cusp of an at-large if they don't win their conference. Serious commitment to basketball. Geographically sensible. 1AA football in a separate conference. Facilities in-line with the conference.

The A10 isn't the sexy conference that a team like Wichita State would eye, but it'd be a step-up from the Horizon for Valpo, who's a team that can be an at-large with the help of a higher level conference.
Also an option from the Horizon: Cleveland State
CAA: Northeastern, William & Mary, Towson, UNC Wilmington
Conference USA: Old Dominion
MAAC: Siena, Monmouth, Iona
Ohio Valley: Belmont

There are teams out there that make sense... but this conference is too big as it is.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by Obadiah »

This subject is somewhat premature given that nothing has happened which changes the membership of the A-10. What does trigger a serious discussion is future poaching of the better teams in the A-10. In that event, the easy thing would be to add some of the schools just mentioned, but in my opinion, many of these schools are not attractive and a better approach would be to form a new conference with like-minded schools from other conferences. The MAC and C-USA do not offer candidates for such a conference because of their FBS football. The prime partners would be found in remnants of the MVC and a few schools from other conferences. Any new conference should have a reasonable geographic spread and have a better balance of large/small and private/public schools.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Conference realignment will probably happen again at some point, and we need to make sure we're in the best position possible when it does. A few years of sustained success could be huge for the program. We have to ride Dan as far and as long as we can. Look what Shaka did for VCU, Laranaga for George Mason, Marshall at Wichita St. The right coach and a few breaks during a few days in March can give years of luster to a school.

I want the A10 to be as good as possible, but Dayton and VCU having new coaches is a good thing for us, an opportunity. Just keep on winning, and we'll be the prettiest girl at the party
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by steviep123 »

the_one_mike wrote:
Blue Man wrote: Oh I don't mean for WSU - they're going to a conference with football money. Travel expenses for a basketball team in the AAC are a drop in the bucket. Charter flights are the norm in those conferences. They probably have it into their agreement that the conference will pick up that tab amongst other things since they'll be leaving their NCAA credits behind in the MVC.

I'm talking for the A10. Most of our schools (including us until Dan's contract extension that stipulates we have chartered flights for road games) don't have that kind of a travel budget. Getting 1 perennial NCAA tournament team will generate your conference money, but the cost-benefit to the individual schools when you consider what they make per A10 credit, versus what they would have to increase in spending to play a game or two that far away, is in the red.

Again, college athletics is a business. I feel like everyone easily forgets that. It's not as simple as the on-court activity.

If you want to help solidify the western members of the A10 it has to be beneficial both on the court and for all the other peripheral factors. Geographically URI/Richmond/VCU/GW/UMass/Fordham/La Salle/St Joes/George Mason/Davidson aren't going to approve a member that would make them go further west than St Louis. Honestly, even the western schools like Bonnies, Duquesne, Dayton aren't going to want to travel that far.

Dayton and SLU used to have Xavier, then Butler in addition to Duquesne for another regional game. You can even count the Bonnies in there. You need to find another team within that georgraphy.

My thought would be Valparasio. Always a good school that's right on the cusp of an at-large if they don't win their conference. Serious commitment to basketball. Geographically sensible. 1AA football in a separate conference. Facilities in-line with the conference.

The A10 isn't the sexy conference that a team like Wichita State would eye, but it'd be a step-up from the Horizon for Valpo, who's a team that can be an at-large with the help of a higher level conference.
Also an option from the Horizon: Cleveland State
CAA: Northeastern, William & Mary, Towson, UNC Wilmington
Conference USA: Old Dominion
MAAC: Siena, Monmouth, Iona
Ohio Valley: Belmont

There are teams out there that make sense... but this conference is too big as it is.
I really don't want to add anyone without getting rid of dead weight like Fordham or Duquesne. But if we have to, I'd only want Valpo or Siena at this point. Both have a strong commitment to basketball. Valpo would have been a good replacement for Butler. Davidson was good too though.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by rhodylaw »

I don't see the harm of going to 16 with two more high quality basketball programs. The P5 schools are expanding their conference schedules reducing the number of non-conference games. Would not be bad to have Valpo and another in the conference in my opinion
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

Unread post by bostonwhaler »

steviep123 wrote:
the_one_mike wrote:
Blue Man wrote: Oh I don't mean for WSU - they're going to a conference with football money. Travel expenses for a basketball team in the AAC are a drop in the bucket. Charter flights are the norm in those conferences. They probably have it into their agreement that the conference will pick up that tab amongst other things since they'll be leaving their NCAA credits behind in the MVC.

I'm talking for the A10. Most of our schools (including us until Dan's contract extension that stipulates we have chartered flights for road games) don't have that kind of a travel budget. Getting 1 perennial NCAA tournament team will generate your conference money, but the cost-benefit to the individual schools when you consider what they make per A10 credit, versus what they would have to increase in spending to play a game or two that far away, is in the red.

Again, college athletics is a business. I feel like everyone easily forgets that. It's not as simple as the on-court activity.

If you want to help solidify the western members of the A10 it has to be beneficial both on the court and for all the other peripheral factors. Geographically URI/Richmond/VCU/GW/UMass/Fordham/La Salle/St Joes/George Mason/Davidson aren't going to approve a member that would make them go further west than St Louis. Honestly, even the western schools like Bonnies, Duquesne, Dayton aren't going to want to travel that far.

Dayton and SLU used to have Xavier, then Butler in addition to Duquesne for another regional game. You can even count the Bonnies in there. You need to find another team within that georgraphy.

My thought would be Valparasio. Always a good school that's right on the cusp of an at-large if they don't win their conference. Serious commitment to basketball. Geographically sensible. 1AA football in a separate conference. Facilities in-line with the conference.

The A10 isn't the sexy conference that a team like Wichita State would eye, but it'd be a step-up from the Horizon for Valpo, who's a team that can be an at-large with the help of a higher level conference.
Also an option from the Horizon: Cleveland State
CAA: Northeastern, William & Mary, Towson, UNC Wilmington
Conference USA: Old Dominion
MAAC: Siena, Monmouth, Iona
Ohio Valley: Belmont

There are teams out there that make sense... but this conference is too big as it is.
I really don't want to add anyone without getting rid of dead weight like Fordham or Duquesne. But if we have to, I'd only want Valpo or Siena at this point. Both have a strong commitment to basketball. Valpo would have been a good replacement for Butler. Davidson was good too though.
This list is depressing and wreaks of mid major. Valpo? Belmont? All the more reason why we need to make ourselves look as attractive as possible.

P5 schools can expand their conference schedules to 20 b/c their metrics will only get stronger. It's a catch 22 for the A10. In a good year, it would be beneficial, but could hurt us in down years. I'd err on the side of caution and hope our staff can continue to schedule well.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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steviep123 wrote:
the_one_mike wrote:
Blue Man wrote: Oh I don't mean for WSU - they're going to a conference with football money. Travel expenses for a basketball team in the AAC are a drop in the bucket. Charter flights are the norm in those conferences. They probably have it into their agreement that the conference will pick up that tab amongst other things since they'll be leaving their NCAA credits behind in the MVC.

I'm talking for the A10. Most of our schools (including us until Dan's contract extension that stipulates we have chartered flights for road games) don't have that kind of a travel budget. Getting 1 perennial NCAA tournament team will generate your conference money, but the cost-benefit to the individual schools when you consider what they make per A10 credit, versus what they would have to increase in spending to play a game or two that far away, is in the red.

Again, college athletics is a business. I feel like everyone easily forgets that. It's not as simple as the on-court activity.

If you want to help solidify the western members of the A10 it has to be beneficial both on the court and for all the other peripheral factors. Geographically URI/Richmond/VCU/GW/UMass/Fordham/La Salle/St Joes/George Mason/Davidson aren't going to approve a member that would make them go further west than St Louis. Honestly, even the western schools like Bonnies, Duquesne, Dayton aren't going to want to travel that far.

Dayton and SLU used to have Xavier, then Butler in addition to Duquesne for another regional game. You can even count the Bonnies in there. You need to find another team within that georgraphy.

My thought would be Valparasio. Always a good school that's right on the cusp of an at-large if they don't win their conference. Serious commitment to basketball. Geographically sensible. 1AA football in a separate conference. Facilities in-line with the conference.

The A10 isn't the sexy conference that a team like Wichita State would eye, but it'd be a step-up from the Horizon for Valpo, who's a team that can be an at-large with the help of a higher level conference.
Also an option from the Horizon: Cleveland State
CAA: Northeastern, William & Mary, Towson, UNC Wilmington
Conference USA: Old Dominion
MAAC: Siena, Monmouth, Iona
Ohio Valley: Belmont

There are teams out there that make sense... but this conference is too big as it is.
I really don't want to add anyone without getting rid of dead weight like Fordham or Duquesne. But if we have to, I'd only want Valpo or Siena at this point. Both have a strong commitment to basketball. Valpo would have been a good replacement for Butler. Davidson was good too though.
Agree -- addition through subtraction is more efficient than just adding more teams. The Big East is living off of their ratio of teams making post season...we should not be mimicking what the P5's are doing since the only thing similar to us and them is that we both play basketball. Drop the 3 schools that play to high school crowds and are showing ZERO interest in facility/program upgrades - Duquense, Fordham, Lasalle. Put them in the Patriot League or MAAC. Poach Siena. That is a very good 12 team mid major league.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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I read somewhere today that the MVC wants Valpo.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Billyboy78 wrote:I read somewhere today that the MVC wants Valpo.
https://www.fanragsports.com/news/mvc-t ... departure/
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Totally agree with BAR on this. Only thing is I wish La Salle could stay but t seems th school has 0 plans to make the commitment needed to bball.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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IMO the A10 should aggressively pursue good fits now; even if the league becomes too big for a while. Usually these conference things have a domino type effect. Good programs could get scooped up. If subsequently the BE or the AAC go fishing again (for the usual suspects), the A10 should have its replacements in place.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Stop calling this conference a mid major, it's one of the top two basketball focused conferences in the country. Cut the three programs that can't cut it financially, facilities wise, following wise etc and add Sienna who has a high upside and adds another great location.

If or when Umass moves out due to a football move, we'all then be in a strong position to either drop another under performing program that can't meet the A-10 high major culture benchmarks or add another program on the rise who can also meet those benchmarks to get back to 12.

We need to move the conference RPI into the top 6-7 at worse every year. Less teams with higher standards allow the conference to look more elite and perception is reality in today's environment.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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CT Rhody wrote:Stop calling this conference a mid major, it's one of the top two basketball focused conferences in the country. Cut the three programs that can't cut it financially, facilities wise, following wise etc and add Sienna who has a high upside and adds another great location.

If or when Umass moves out due to a football move, we'all then be in a strong position to either drop another under performing program that can't meet the A-10 high major culture benchmarks or add another program on the rise who can also meet those benchmarks to get back to 12.

We need to move the conference RPI into the top 6-7 at worse every year. Less teams with higher standards allow the conference to look more elite and perception is reality in today's environment.
Mid Major would probably be less of a bad word, if people used it correctly. Even Low Majors get the "mid major" label by the media. If Mid Major fit programs like URI, Dayton, VCU, St Marys, Wichita St, etc. and Low Major included the MVC schools, CAA, SOCON. There wouldn't be the bad connotation there is today.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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If you don't have big time Bowl Championship football you are a mid-major....the big east is the best mid-major conference....the A-10 trails them...
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Ramulous wrote:If you don't have big time Bowl Championship football you are a mid-major....the big east is the best mid-major conference....the A-10 trails them...
Unfortunately the media doesn't apply that mid major label when big east teams play in march. When I see PC/georgetown/seton hall/etc. with that label, i'll be a happy man.

What's the cutoff point for low major? 1AA football? if we send 5-6 teams to the tourney consistently for a few years, can the A10 make the jump?
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Gonzaga mid major it can be done
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Villanova is the best example of a mid major that has both a good FCS football program, and a top level BB program that can and has won at the highest level.

Yes it can be done here, but will require major money to build and support.

But having said that, football here will always be second fiddle in terms of facilities and support. $30-$50 million to put football on a level with the better programs in the CAA...isn't walking thru that door any time soon, if ever.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Gonzaga is NOT a mid major school, but it is in a mid major (or maybe low major) conference.

If you go to the Score app on your phone, under NCAA Men's Basketball Under Conferences, (if you want to choose a specific conference), it shows the A10 under the "Top" section: AAC, A10, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East, Pac 12, SEC. The rest are under "Mid".
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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The mid major name needs to go. Gonzaga and East middle Alaska St. University cannot have the same label. Create a new system of classes.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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rambone 78 wrote: But having said that, football here will always be second fiddle in terms of facilities and support. $30-$50 million to put football on a level with the better programs in the CAA...isn't walking thru that door any time soon, if ever.
So the plan is continue with this embarrassment, playing football in a substandard high school stadium?

Shameful!
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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hrstrat57 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote: But having said that, football here will always be second fiddle in terms of facilities and support. $30-$50 million to put football on a level with the better programs in the CAA...isn't walking thru that door any time soon, if ever.
So the plan is continue with this embarrassment, playing football in a substandard high school stadium?

Shameful!
Correct...but...if and when they ever succeed...will be a great story...
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Villanova is not a mid major, I mean come on...

People are going off the deep end with some of these latest posts...
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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There are mid major type schools in high major/p5 conferences and high major acting schools in midmajor conferences. WSU is the latter as is Gonzaga. We need to get there.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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bostonwhaler wrote:
Ramulous wrote:If you don't have big time Bowl Championship football you are a mid-major....the big east is the best mid-major conference....the A-10 trails them...
Unfortunately the media doesn't apply that mid major label when big east teams play in march. When I see PC/georgetown/seton hall/etc. with that label, i'll be a happy man.
The Big East is kinda like the conference that isn't like the others.
It performs like a P5, but isn't considered such because it doesn't play football.
But it also performs significantly higher than other non-P5 schools on the basketball court.
It's put 55% of it's teams in the tournament since inception, and almost consistently 3 of 10 teams in the Top 25, with more on occasion.
It also recruits in line with P5 conferences, although in the BE, many teams share in the wealth versus a few.
PC alone, I believe they have more Top 100 recruits for 2017 than the A10 and AAC combined.
But then, you can look at the A10 and AAC, they are much different than say the MVC, MWC, WCC, etc.
Those conferences on good years seem to be able to have 2-3 good teams, whereas that's a relatively mediocre year for the A10 and AAC.
It's why the title game doesn't really work, but I also think that's why when generalized, the BE doesn't seem to fall into the mid-major tier like some of the others do.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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How much does the big east earn in tv revenues and bowl shares compared to the P5 schools.....it is a fraction....and the A-10 is an even smaller fraction...midmajors all.....but the big east is the best midmajor....
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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Ramulous wrote:How much does the big east earn in tv revenues and bowl shares compared to the P5 schools.....it is a fraction....and the A-10 is an even smaller fraction...midmajors all.....but the big east is the best midmajor....
Of course if you look at a total revenue picture, P5 trumps all, but the real question is, how many of those resources are actually pumped into basketball versus reinvested into football? Doesn't matter how much money you make, isn't the point how you perform throughout the course of a season, over multiple seasons?
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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To quote Bob Dylan....money doesn't talk, it swears....when push comes to shove the will to win coupled with huge resources leaves most coaches in midmajor conference subject to poaching...Cooley seems to be an exception because he is home....every other coach will have a price that makes them head to the P5 and triple their money...
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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For basketball purposes it is a power 6, IMO. The AAC A10 MW are in a perilous position
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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As long as the A10 has us, VCU and Dayton we will be sort of OK.....unfortunately the bottom feeders of the conference [of which there are too many] will drag the rest down.....

The days of the A10 getting 5 or 6 bids is likely over though.

We all know if VCU and Dayton leave, then the A10 becomes another MVC, CAA, MW.....one or 2 bids tops.

Then we would have no choice but to become the annual dominant power of the conference a la Gonzaga...or else look to leave also.
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Ramulous wrote:To quote Bob Dylan....money doesn't talk, it swears....when push comes to shove the will to win coupled with huge resources leaves most coaches in midmajor conference subject to poaching...Cooley seems to be an exception because he is home....every other coach will have a price that makes them head to the P5 and triple their money...
Is he though? They've only lost 2 coaches involuntarily since inception, and 1 of those guys didn't even coach a game. They haven't had guys chasing pay checks, guys like Mack and even Holtmann mentioned every year with openings but never touch them. Cooley has also been mentioned to several openings, it's never more than that. Wright you don't even hear his name anymore. McDermott? Crickets. Most of these guys are right around $2+ million to begin with (or have deals in place to get them there), do you think Georgia Tech is going to pay their coach $4-6 million? In fact, if you look at NCAA Tournament teams this season, only 9 teams are paying coaches over $3 million annually.

Also when it comes to resources, I'd say the BE schools have risen to the occasion. Many have or are building practice facilities. They are flying charter with more frequency. They are spending money. They will never beat Kentucky or Duke, but they are adding the amenities (for the most part) to keep them in line with many middling P5 schools. Of course P5 schools are getting the money, B10 teams get something like $50 million from TV contracts to the Big East's $4. But in the BE, you know the $4 is going to basketball. In the Big10, many of those schools are probably putting most or all into the football program.
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Ramulous wrote:To quote Bob Dylan....money doesn't talk, it swears....when push comes to shove the will to win coupled with huge resources leaves most coaches in midmajor conference subject to poaching...Cooley seems to be an exception because he is home....every other coach will have a price that makes them head to the P5 and triple their money...
Is he though? They've only lost 2 coaches involuntarily since inception, and 1 of those guys didn't even coach a game. They haven't had guys chasing pay checks, guys like Mack and even Holtmann mentioned every year with openings but never touch them. Cooley has also been mentioned to several openings, it's never more than that. Wright you don't even hear his name anymore. McDermott? Crickets. Most of these guys are right around $2+ million to begin with (or have deals in place to get them there), do you think Georgia Tech is going to pay their coach $4-6 million? In fact, if you look at NCAA Tournament teams this season, only 9 teams are paying coaches over $3 million annually.

Also when it comes to resources, I'd say the BE schools have risen to the occasion. Many have or are building practice facilities. They are flying charter with more frequency. They are spending money. They will never beat Kentucky or Duke, but they are adding the amenities (for the most part) to keep them in line with many middling P5 schools. Of course P5 schools are getting the money, B10 teams get something like $50 million from TV contracts to the Big East's $4. But in the BE, you know the $4 is going to basketball. In the Big10, many of those schools are probably putting most or all into the football program.
I agree with most of this, but it may be a matter of time with guys like Holtmann, Mack, and McDermott. They've only been at their respective schools for a few years. Mack took over for Miller in 2009 after Miller went to Arizona, Holtmann for Stevens 4 or 5 years ago, and I think this is McDermott's 5th or 6th year after taking over for Altmann. Granted, the Big East seems pretty stable and with Fox Sports money to help, but it really all depends if these guys want to go to the P5's when they come calling. Personally, I think it's better for the NCAA in general if they stay where they are. The more non P5 conferences that retain their coaches, the better.

rj, which school only lost 2 coaches involuntarily? I know it's not Xavier. They've gone through a number of coaches over the years and haven't missed a beat...one of them to Providence (old friend Pete Gillan).
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Re: Possible Wichita State move to the AAC

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steviep123 wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Ramulous wrote:To quote Bob Dylan....money doesn't talk, it swears....when push comes to shove the will to win coupled with huge resources leaves most coaches in midmajor conference subject to poaching...Cooley seems to be an exception because he is home....every other coach will have a price that makes them head to the P5 and triple their money...
Is he though? They've only lost 2 coaches involuntarily since inception, and 1 of those guys didn't even coach a game. They haven't had guys chasing pay checks, guys like Mack and even Holtmann mentioned every year with openings but never touch them. Cooley has also been mentioned to several openings, it's never more than that. Wright you don't even hear his name anymore. McDermott? Crickets. Most of these guys are right around $2+ million to begin with (or have deals in place to get them there), do you think Georgia Tech is going to pay their coach $4-6 million? In fact, if you look at NCAA Tournament teams this season, only 9 teams are paying coaches over $3 million annually.

Also when it comes to resources, I'd say the BE schools have risen to the occasion. Many have or are building practice facilities. They are flying charter with more frequency. They are spending money. They will never beat Kentucky or Duke, but they are adding the amenities (for the most part) to keep them in line with many middling P5 schools. Of course P5 schools are getting the money, B10 teams get something like $50 million from TV contracts to the Big East's $4. But in the BE, you know the $4 is going to basketball. In the Big10, many of those schools are probably putting most or all into the football program.
I agree with most of this, but it may be a matter of time with guys like Holtmann, Mack, and McDermott. They've only been at their respective schools for a few years. Mack took over for Miller in 2009 after Miller went to Arizona, Holtmann for Stevens 4 or 5 years ago, and I think this is McDermott's 5th or 6th year after taking over for Altmann. Granted, the Big East seems pretty stable and with Fox Sports money to help, but it really all depends if these guys want to go to the P5's when they come calling. Personally, I think it's better for the NCAA in general if they stay where they are. The more non P5 conferences that retain their coaches, the better.

rj, which school only lost 2 coaches involuntarily? I know it's not Xavier. They've gone through a number of coaches over the years and haven't missed a beat...one of them to Providence (old friend Pete Gillan).
Sorry, that statement was more about the NBE, since 2014.
Butler lost Stevens to the NBA, and Marquette lost Buzz to V-Tech.
Obviously, plenty of other defections going back several years.
PC used to be a stepping stone job, etc.
These schools figured out there is a money component, and have stepped up.

I think the problem with "P5" is that it's purely a football term.
Sure, it means more money (through TV), but it's a bowl game designation.
P5 teams get preferred bowl games, because there are no other competitive conferences.
But it doesn't quite translate to basketball because there are no true basketball benefits to being P5.
You would think more money, but that's not always the case.

Many P5 schools don't have "basketball only" practice facilities.
They also don't always pay coaches drastically more, since those resources get earmarked for football.
Conferences are often more competitive, but so is the Big East, for example.
Again, simply Big East conference KenPom, 14-17:
5-2-3-3.
I think that's why the BE is more like a "hybrid" conference.
Because of those results, no one is going to say they are a "mid-major."
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