Koch on URI BB Commitment

Talk about the men's team, upcoming opponents and news from around college hoop.
User avatar
Da_Process_Survivor
Cuttino Mobley
Posts: 1749
Joined: 9 years ago
Location: Las Vegas
x 2181

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

TruePoint wrote:The financially-based argument for dropping the football team is that without upgraded facilities the team will always suck and therefore should be dropped because it is bad and a money pit. The irony is that it would take 50+ years of turning modest profits to make back the money that it would cost to build a new stadium and then presumably become good (and even then turning a modest profit is not guaranteed).

The argument about football should not be (exclusively) about money, it should be about what type of university we want to be. If we are only going to play sports in which we will profit, be prepared to drop all sports. We don't only offer classes that turn a profit.

Obviously the school has to abide by certain economic realities, but every single decision cannot be about how profitable a specific activity is. We have to have a more holistic view.
agreed, i shouldve been more clear. Im not advocating dropping football and pocketing the cash.

we are basketball school, always have been. We should be doing everything possible to put the lion share of the resources into that, including taking a look at if football is worth the expense.

I say the gains we can make by taking the money that goes into football and spending on basketball is worth making the change. Basketball is our marquee sport, lets spend like it
0 x
---
He was a snake oil salesman...just like the rest of em
---
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »

RhowdyRam02 wrote: You're the one bringing up money. Revenue is only half of the equation. It doesn't matter what the revenue is if the costs are significantly higher.
That probably includes every sport that URI fields most years, including men's basketball from time to time.
0 x
jmck
Lamar Odom
Posts: 300
Joined: 11 years ago
x 55

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by jmck »

Roz wrote:I would be curious to see if there has been an uptake in donations to the bball program and school overall since the publicity of the tourney run.
I just purchased season tix for the first time and the Ryan Center rep said they've been slammed since the Monday after A10 final
4 x
User avatar
RhowdyRam02
Frank Keaney
Posts: 10303
Joined: 11 years ago
x 6581

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

RF1 wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote: You're the one bringing up money. Revenue is only half of the equation. It doesn't matter what the revenue is if the costs are significantly higher.
That probably includes every sport that URI fields most years, including men's basketball from time to time.
That probably has to do with every facet of life that includes money. We were talking about football.
0 x
Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
User avatar
steviep123
Sly Williams
Posts: 4796
Joined: 11 years ago
x 3094

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by steviep123 »

jmck wrote:
Roz wrote:I would be curious to see if there has been an uptake in donations to the bball program and school overall since the publicity of the tourney run.
I just purchased season tix for the first time and the Ryan Center rep said they've been slammed since the Monday after A10 final
That's awesome! I live too far away to get season tickets, but I definitely will purchase a mini pack or something. While I can physically make most weeknight games, I live just far enough away to make it difficult, especially with a 15 month old. Of course knowing that supporters like Neil drive 90 mins each way for each game, makes this seem ridiculous :)
0 x
Bleed Keaney Blue!

”I'm not coming there to be in the top 3 of the Atlantic 10. I'm coming to win the damn thing!”
NorthernRamFan
Jimmy Baron
Posts: 345
Joined: 8 years ago
x 224

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by NorthernRamFan »

Why in the good has this become a football program feed? My comment was simply we need to $$$upport this program with more Mr Franklins... shit I even laid the plan out lol

The checkbooks need to be opened people, those who have it need to donate it.
1 x
hrstrat57
Sly Williams
Posts: 3874
Joined: 11 years ago
Location: Kingston
x 2333

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

Some of youz guys love your crappy pigskin!!!

We be talkin hoops here!

Nuff!!!
3 x
We're gonna run the picket fence at "em.....now boys don't get caught watchin' the paint dry!
User avatar
Blue Man
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 7403
Joined: 11 years ago
x 15075

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by Blue Man »

josephski wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
We lose $500,000 a year on football, it would not cost more to disband it and it would not mess up Title IX
Um, yes. It would mess up Title IX because you have to provide an equal number of scholarships to both men and women respective to the enrollment at the university. URI is a 50/50 split, maybe a little more female students. So you have 60 or so scholarships that would vanish and then how do you fill that gap? Add 4 more men's sports teams that will just burn more money than the operating cost of football without a shred of hope to turn a profit?
You would add the scholarships to woman's sports we already have. I doubt all our woman's sports are fully funded so I really don't think it would be an issue.
Title IX doesn't mean "women get more opportunities in sports than men." It means "women and men will have the same opportunity to compete at sports at the same level."

The number of D1 athletic scholarships for men and women need to be equal to the proportion of men and women at the school. If a school is 50/50 (URI is 54% Female, 46% male) it means you have to provide 1:1 scholarships.

If you take away 60 men's scholarships, that means you need to take away 65 women's scholarships. If you wanted to just continue adding scholarships to the women's sports we already have (sure lets just throw 5 backup catchers onto the softball team, great use of resources), then you would need to add even more male scholarships to satisfy that ratio.

Good God, this stuff is a simple google search away. Can't we at least get to discussion about facts instead of just posting opinions posing as facts?

Title IX isn't something you interpret. It's a law. So yes, there are implications to anything you do that involves a massive amount of D1 athletic scholarships.

As for why football is on this feed? Beats me but some people seem to think that doing away with the football program would benefit basketball and somehow not be a disaster for the athletics department. Those people are wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.
0 x
If you say you’re a Rhody fan, I know you are my brother. For you have suffered as I have suffered.

Give to the Athletic Director's Fund

Give to Rhody's NIL
User avatar
RhowdyRam02
Frank Keaney
Posts: 10303
Joined: 11 years ago
x 6581

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
Um, yes. It would mess up Title IX because you have to provide an equal number of scholarships to both men and women respective to the enrollment at the university. URI is a 50/50 split, maybe a little more female students. So you have 60 or so scholarships that would vanish and then how do you fill that gap? Add 4 more men's sports teams that will just burn more money than the operating cost of football without a shred of hope to turn a profit?
You would add the scholarships to woman's sports we already have. I doubt all our woman's sports are fully funded so I really don't think it would be an issue.
Title IX doesn't mean "women get more opportunities in sports than men." It means "women and men will have the same opportunity to compete at sports at the same level."

The number of D1 athletic scholarships for men and women need to be equal to the proportion of men and women at the school. If a school is 50/50 (URI is 54% Female, 46% male) it means you have to provide 1:1 scholarships.

If you take away 60 men's scholarships, that means you need to take away 65 women's scholarships. If you wanted to just continue adding scholarships to the women's sports we already have (sure lets just throw 5 backup catchers onto the softball team, great use of resources), then you would need to add even more male scholarships to satisfy that ratio.

Good God, this stuff is a simple google search away. Can't we at least get to discussion about facts instead of just posting opinions posing as facts?

Title IX isn't something you interpret. It's a law. So yes, there are implications to anything you do that involves a massive amount of D1 athletic scholarships.

As for why football is on this feed? Beats me but some people seem to think that doing away with the football program would benefit basketball and somehow not be a disaster for the athletics department. Those people are wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.
I agree, we should stick to facts instead of opinions. Title IX DOES NOT require scholarships to be in direct proportion of the student body.

From the NCAA:

Q. How is Title IX applied to athletics?

Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics:

Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;
Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation; and
Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.
0 x
Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
josephski
Tom Garrick
Posts: 1085
Joined: 9 years ago
x 440

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by josephski »

Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
Um, yes. It would mess up Title IX because you have to provide an equal number of scholarships to both men and women respective to the enrollment at the university. URI is a 50/50 split, maybe a little more female students. So you have 60 or so scholarships that would vanish and then how do you fill that gap? Add 4 more men's sports teams that will just burn more money than the operating cost of football without a shred of hope to turn a profit?
You would add the scholarships to woman's sports we already have. I doubt all our woman's sports are fully funded so I really don't think it would be an issue.
Title IX doesn't mean "women get more opportunities in sports than men." It means "women and men will have the same opportunity to compete at sports at the same level."

The number of D1 athletic scholarships for men and women need to be equal to the proportion of men and women at the school. If a school is 50/50 (URI is 54% Female, 46% male) it means you have to provide 1:1 scholarships.

If you take away 60 men's scholarships, that means you need to take away 65 women's scholarships. If you wanted to just continue adding scholarships to the women's sports we already have (sure lets just throw 5 backup catchers onto the softball team, great use of resources), then you would need to add even more male scholarships to satisfy that ratio.

Good God, this stuff is a simple google search away. Can't we at least get to discussion about facts instead of just posting opinions posing as facts?

Title IX isn't something you interpret. It's a law. So yes, there are implications to anything you do that involves a massive amount of D1 athletic scholarships.

As for why football is on this feed? Beats me but some people seem to think that doing away with the football program would benefit basketball and somehow not be a disaster for the athletics department. Those people are wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.
Yea you're right, I was thinking backwards. Either way I don't think it's as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. If we did get rid of football we'd probably add hockey so then after that we could add a couple other men's sports and drop a couple woman's sports to the club level.
0 x
User avatar
Blue Man
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 7403
Joined: 11 years ago
x 15075

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by Blue Man »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:
You would add the scholarships to woman's sports we already have. I doubt all our woman's sports are fully funded so I really don't think it would be an issue.
Title IX doesn't mean "women get more opportunities in sports than men." It means "women and men will have the same opportunity to compete at sports at the same level."

The number of D1 athletic scholarships for men and women need to be equal to the proportion of men and women at the school. If a school is 50/50 (URI is 54% Female, 46% male) it means you have to provide 1:1 scholarships.

If you take away 60 men's scholarships, that means you need to take away 65 women's scholarships. If you wanted to just continue adding scholarships to the women's sports we already have (sure lets just throw 5 backup catchers onto the softball team, great use of resources), then you would need to add even more male scholarships to satisfy that ratio.

Good God, this stuff is a simple google search away. Can't we at least get to discussion about facts instead of just posting opinions posing as facts?

Title IX isn't something you interpret. It's a law. So yes, there are implications to anything you do that involves a massive amount of D1 athletic scholarships.

As for why football is on this feed? Beats me but some people seem to think that doing away with the football program would benefit basketball and somehow not be a disaster for the athletics department. Those people are wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.
I agree, we should stick to facts instead of opinions. Title IX DOES NOT require scholarships to be in direct proportion of the student body.

From the NCAA:

Q. How is Title IX applied to athletics?

Athletics programs are considered educational programs and activities. There are three basic parts of Title IX as it applies to athletics:

Participation: Title IX requires that women and men be provided equitable opportunities to participate in sports. Title IX does not require institutions to offer identical sports but an equal opportunity to play;
Scholarships: Title IX requires that female and male student-athletes receive athletics scholarship dollars proportional to their participation; and
Other benefits: Title IX requires the equal treatment of female and male student-athletes in the provisions of: (a) equipment and supplies; (b) scheduling of games and practice times; (c) travel and daily allowance/per diem; (d) access to tutoring; (e) coaching, (f) locker rooms, practice and competitive facilities; (g) medical and training facilities and services; (h) housing and dining facilities and services; (i) publicity and promotions; (j) support services and (k) recruitment of student-athletes.
Holy Jesus Christ. OK, so digging into the exact details scholarship is an all-encompassing financial benefit number. Why we are fighting over the details of title IX and not the affect of title IX is beyond me. The general gist is that everything is equal.

So you don't think that an athletic department eco-system that is equally balanced based on this law, would be catastrophically and negatively affected when you cut out 60 of the most expensive scholarship/investments per athlete keeping that balance?

If you cut football, you need to make up the difference in 1 of 2 ways. You either have to cut the equivalent of those 60 scholarships/investments on the female side, which would be a shit load of cuts to women's sports and scholarships leading to a total reduction of teams and athletes and all the aforementioned issues. Or you have to add back those differences in men's teams and investments.

Now if you think it is wise for a collegiate athletic department to somehow skew those numbers and shutter programs to only invest in basketball, or that football is somehow withholding funding from the basketball program - you are, again, wrong.

The Celtics are a professional basketball team that do nothing but focus on basketball, you may think about looking there as a fan. A university athletic department and athletic director and university of 15,000 and hundreds of thousands have to look out for more than just the basketball team.

So yes in a vacuum it would be great if 100% of the money that came into the university could be used for basketball and the Ryan Center could be outfitted with gold toilets and my seat was covered in diamonds, but the athletics department doesn't operate in a vacuum, it operates in reality.
1 x
If you say you’re a Rhody fan, I know you are my brother. For you have suffered as I have suffered.

Give to the Athletic Director's Fund

Give to Rhody's NIL
User avatar
Blue Man
Tyson Wheeler
Posts: 7403
Joined: 11 years ago
x 15075

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by Blue Man »

josephski wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:
You would add the scholarships to woman's sports we already have. I doubt all our woman's sports are fully funded so I really don't think it would be an issue.
Title IX doesn't mean "women get more opportunities in sports than men." It means "women and men will have the same opportunity to compete at sports at the same level."

The number of D1 athletic scholarships for men and women need to be equal to the proportion of men and women at the school. If a school is 50/50 (URI is 54% Female, 46% male) it means you have to provide 1:1 scholarships.

If you take away 60 men's scholarships, that means you need to take away 65 women's scholarships. If you wanted to just continue adding scholarships to the women's sports we already have (sure lets just throw 5 backup catchers onto the softball team, great use of resources), then you would need to add even more male scholarships to satisfy that ratio.

Good God, this stuff is a simple google search away. Can't we at least get to discussion about facts instead of just posting opinions posing as facts?

Title IX isn't something you interpret. It's a law. So yes, there are implications to anything you do that involves a massive amount of D1 athletic scholarships.

As for why football is on this feed? Beats me but some people seem to think that doing away with the football program would benefit basketball and somehow not be a disaster for the athletics department. Those people are wrong and have no idea what they're talking about.
Yea you're right, I was thinking backwards. Either way I don't think it's as big of a problem as you're making it out to be. If we did get rid of football we'd probably add hockey so then after that we could add a couple other men's sports and drop a couple woman's sports to the club level.
I'm sure if you asked Thorr he'd tell you it was a bigger problem than I'm making it out to be.

60 scholarships + the investments of a football team. That needs to be made up on the male athlete side or taken away from the female athlete side.

It would take more than a hockey team and reduction of D1 teams to club.

The athletic department would be assigning itself a death sentence to decrease it's footprint by 25% athletes. I think you guys think that if that money went away that it just automatically goes to basketball. Again, wrong.

The university would instead view that as a reason to cut athletic funding probably by 25% under the reasoning that it's now an even smaller ratio of students to athletes. All the other people around the state and campus would say, "why are we giving all this money to only a few hundred students, that should be used to benefit the other 15000 students at the university." This is a battle Thorr has to fight every budget season, he isn't going to make that harder on himself and the rest of the athletic department.

I know that to people on this board basketball is the only thing that URI does. As much as it means to all of us, you have to understand that there are other ramifications (lol i said ram) and realities at play outside of the men's basketball team.

URI has a nearly 800 million dollar budget. 10% of that is funded by the state. Athletics is around 30 mil of that; insignificant compared to the total operating cost, but massive compared to other departments. Every department is so hard up for cash that you think somehow the university would OK more money to go to athletics?

You have no grasp of what actually happens on campus. Despite how all of us understand the worthwhile investment that a coach like Dan Hurley represents, or the athletic department itself - most of the money to pay for Dan and pay for all the cool stuff has to come from outside sources, not the university budget. Most people don't understand that, as evidenced by the furthering of this conversation and the continuing reason that I have to repeat myself.

There are professors and department heads who want to RIOT every time they see a story about how much Dan makes. Of Dan's well deserved $955k compensation this year, a fraction of that comes from the school allotted funds directed towards athletics. Those professors and department heads don't understand that the money given to him would never find it's way to their department.

Just like you don't seem to understand that the money that goes to football, or women's soccer, or any of the litany of other things the athletic department deals with would never go to basketball if they didn't exist.

Please just stop with this thought that there is any program in the athletic department that is hoarding money from basketball. Neither of you can grasp the knowledge needed to understand how the university's budget works, how the athletic department's budget works, and possibly how any budget works.

I am literally telling you how it is. Just agree and understand that football is not a problem, or the problem, or any problem somehow related to funding the basketball team, and if you actually want to do something to help just donate money.
2 x
If you say you’re a Rhody fan, I know you are my brother. For you have suffered as I have suffered.

Give to the Athletic Director's Fund

Give to Rhody's NIL
ramster
Frank Keaney
Posts: 23884
Joined: 11 years ago
x 8930

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by ramster »

There are at least two threads in the URI Athletics Section that have a lot of information in them.
On Christmas Eve 2016 Thor same out and said URI is not dropping football and he gave all his reasons why.
He mentions that the frequent discussion about possibly dropping the program hurts the program and recruiting. His comments are interesting and straightforward.

Might be good to move this Football Discussion to one of those two existing threads so all the info is captured together. I bumped up both threads to make finding easier.

Here is the Bill Koch article from December 24, 2016.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... ll-program
1 x
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »

Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere:

URI Athletics will soon be receiving a $663,537 one time payment distribution from the NCAA to benefit student-athletes on April 19, 2017.

Does anyone know what URI submitted for the planned use of these funds?


NCAA Fact Sheet regarding distribution:
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/fin ... ibution-qa

Distribution list by school
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/usatoday/ed ... school.pdf
Last edited by RF1 7 years ago, edited 6 times in total.
3 x
Roz
ARD
Posts: 664
Joined: 11 years ago
x 193

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by Roz »

Does anyone have the link to Bill Koch's state of mind URI show
0 x
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »

Roz wrote:Does anyone have the link to Bill Koch's state of mind URI show

http://foxprovidence.com/2017/03/24/324 ... e-of-mind/
0 x
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »

FYI:

Dan Hurley will be Yorke's guest on his Monday Dan Yorke State of Mind telecast. The show airs weekdays at 7:30 on myRITV and midnight on FOX Providence.

I would assume you will be able to view it online afterward as was the case with the Koch appearance linked above.
0 x
User avatar
steviep123
Sly Williams
Posts: 4796
Joined: 11 years ago
x 3094

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by steviep123 »

RF1 wrote:FYI:

Dan Hurley will be Yorke's guest on his Monday Dan Yorke State of Mind telecast. The show airs weekdays at 7:30 on myRITV and midnight on FOX Providence.

I would assume you will be able to view it online afterward as was the case with the Koch appearance linked above.
Can someone post the link when it's available?
0 x
Bleed Keaney Blue!

”I'm not coming there to be in the top 3 of the Atlantic 10. I'm coming to win the damn thing!”
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »

The link above was for the show which then has links to recent episodes. It should work next Tuesday with the Monday show prominently featured at the top.

http://foxprovidence.com/category/local ... e-of-mind/
1 x
User avatar
RF1
Ernie Calverley
Posts: 9123
Joined: 11 years ago
x 5532

Re: Koch on URI BB Commitment

Unread post by RF1 »



Weekdays at 7:30 on myRITV, Midnight on FOX Providence

Link to watch online (likely not available until it airs first):
http://foxprovidence.com/category/local ... e-of-mind/
Last edited by RF1 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
0 x
Post Reply