The Coaching Carousel

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

TruePoint wrote:Very good hire for UMass. Hopefully it encourages some of their young guys to stay in the boat.

Reported here that the HS Coach of Jarreau and Gresham says they would like to stay at umass. New HC is planning to talk to all umass players quickly.

From masslive.......
Kellogg brought in one of the best recruiting classes in the country last summer. One of Kelsey's first challenges will be convincing UMass' star youngsters to stay with the team. Vautour reported Tuesday morning that DeJon Jarreau and Brison Gresham would like to stay in Amherst, according to their former high-school coach.
UMass athletic director Ryan Bamford expressed an interest in closing the coaching search before the end of the month in a conference call with reporters on March 10. He said that the position will pay between $800,000-900,000 per year, with incentives for success.

http://www.masslive.com/umassbasketball ... es_wi.html

PeterRamTime · Unread post by **PeterRamTime** » 7 years ago

As much as I dislike UMass, I really hope this guy is a good fit, he did very well at Winthrop.
UMass being a good program only helps us.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Let's hope they stay in the A10........they want into the AAC....not sure if that league would want them though.

They are now an independent in football.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 7 years ago

I don't see where football can survive over the next five years if they don't get into a conference. I'm sure they want the AAC, but they might have to go to another conference first. Independent football is not a recipe for success long term.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 7 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote: The problem is it's a double-edged sword. You tell them you want them to go play tougher road games OOC, and then when they play ok in a tough conference, you bash them for their OOC losses.

Nobody would bash a cartel member for OOC road losses. Of course, we'll never know for sure until they start playing true OOC road games.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

How many years did Syracuse never leave
The Dome until January?
They even had their own BS tournament.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 7 years ago

ramster wrote:Can scratch new umass HC off the Quinipiac list of candidates. He was being mentioned as the leading candidate for the Quinipiac job.
http://web.saxo.nhregister.com/sports/2 ... ball-coach

At first I thought some of the names on this list was crazy, but then I saw the QPac pays $500,000.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 7 years ago

PeterRamTime wrote:As much as I dislike UMass, I really hope this guy is a good fit, he did very well at Winthrop.
UMass being a good program only helps us.

The coaches are the conference, so yet it's important that UMass and VCU make good hires. i think this was a good hire. And I hope Archie stays at Dayton.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 7 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:
ramster wrote:Can scratch new umass HC off the Quinipiac list of candidates. He was being mentioned as the leading candidate for the Quinipiac job.
http://web.saxo.nhregister.com/sports/2 ... ball-coach
At first I thought some of the names on this list was crazy, but then I saw the QPac pays $500,000.

And willing to increase to $800,000

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 7 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote: The problem is it's a double-edged sword. You tell them you want them to go play tougher road games OOC, and then when they play ok in a tough conference, you bash them for their OOC losses.
Nobody would bash a cartel member for OOC road losses. Of course, we'll never know for sure until they start playing true OOC road games.

I don't think you'd bash them for one-off losses, but if Duke went 18-14 with an SOS of 1 and a 9-9 conference record, there would be many people screaming and complaining about how the only reason they made the tournament with 14 losses is because they are Duke and how the selection process is a joke.

The reality is the strength of their conference makes it stupid for them to play a tough road schedule. There is no reason for them to commit to most series. They play in tough OOC tournaments, they'll play one or two very challenging, neutral court games, they play in the ACC/B1G challenge, and then they play 8-10 Top 50 games during conference play. What else do they need to prove?

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 7 years ago

Seems like a good move for UMass though I never heard of the guy

Good move for Wade also 600 k raise better conference

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Kelsey imo could be a home run hire for UMass....

76 wins in last 4 seasons at Winthrop.....and the kicker....spent time at Xavier as associate HC and chief recruiter.....he knows his shit......

A winner and a good recruiter with D1 experience......watch out.

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

VCU and UMass look like very good, solid hires. Kelsey as said comes from the successful Xavier coaching tree and has had success at Winthrop running his own program. Rhoades a former VCU assistant for Smart with final 4, team, so he is obviously familiar with program and landscape. Was said to be one of finalists when Wade got job originally.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 7 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Rhode_Island_Red wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote: The problem is it's a double-edged sword. You tell them you want them to go play tougher road games OOC, and then when they play ok in a tough conference, you bash them for their OOC losses.
Nobody would bash a cartel member for OOC road losses. Of course, we'll never know for sure until they start playing true OOC road games.
I don't think you'd bash them for one-off losses, but if Duke went 18-14 with an SOS of 1 and a 9-9 conference record, there would be many people screaming and complaining about how the only reason they made the tournament with 14 losses is because they are Duke and how the selection process is a joke.

The reality is the strength of their conference makes it stupid for them to play a tough road schedule. There is no reason for them to commit to most series. They play in tough OOC tournaments, they'll play one or two very challenging, neutral court games, they play in the ACC/B1G challenge, and then they play 8-10 Top 50 games during conference play. What else do they need to prove?

But then the selection committee, dominated by cartel members, uses a lack of top-50 wins as a reason for keeping out non-cartel teams. When the NCAA allows the cartel to stack the deck against the riff-raff, that ANY non-cartel teams get at-large bids is a minor miracle.

BTW, we just played one of those "very challenging, neutral court games." Sure as hell didn't feel like a neutral court inside the arena.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

We played 5 on 8, and almost won.....

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Rhoades will keep VCU's recruits, fortunately for them....just how good a coach he is, we'll find out.

EGram · Unread post by **EGram** » 7 years ago

We won't know if the recruits will stay on or not for a while.

Every school is now gonna be using the fact VCU had two coaches leave in the dead of night twice in a two year period against them.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

I think most of them will. Rhoades knows the program, having been an assistant....he was a finalist for the job when they hired Wade.

Continuity is huge....programs that have good assistants that can step in or return are invaluable.

EGram · Unread post by **EGram** » 7 years ago

We shall see I suppose.

Not saying it's impossible but I doubt many of these recruits knew who Rhoades was until today. Wade was an former assistant also and all Shakas recruits abandoned him.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Some might go with Wade to LSU yes......

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

rhodyfan3 · Unread post by **rhodyfan3** » 7 years ago

giovanni wrote:

I just saw this as well. I don't know much about his playing career, or if he has ANY coaching experience. However, I do know he annoys the crap out of me on the radio and broadcasts.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 7 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote: But then the selection committee, dominated by cartel members, uses a lack of top-50 wins as a reason for keeping out non-cartel teams. When the NCAA allows the cartel to stack the deck against the riff-raff, that ANY non-cartel teams get at-large bids is a minor miracle.

Top 50 isn't the only deciding factor, but it's made to be like it is.
If a team is 0-4 aganist the Top 50, or 2-6 against the Top 100, they probably don't deserve to be in the tournament.
I know it sucks, but for many schools (even P5 schools), the time to make noise is in OOC tournaments.
It's the only chance you'll have at getting a fair crack at many schools.
If you're a hopeful "at-large" team, and you can't go to a neutral court and beat other "at-large" teams, and then you lose a few games in a terrible conference, you get what you deserve.
And fair or not, I think that's what factors in to a lot of coaches making iffy coaching moves.
You need resources from your program, and you need resources from your conference.
If the conference can't provide TV revenue, ticket revenue, or consistent quality opponents, that factors in almost as much as the program not getting resources from their respective university.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 7 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Rhode_Island_Red wrote: But then the selection committee, dominated by cartel members, uses a lack of top-50 wins as a reason for keeping out non-cartel teams. When the NCAA allows the cartel to stack the deck against the riff-raff, that ANY non-cartel teams get at-large bids is a minor miracle.
Top 50 isn't the only deciding factor, but it's made to be like it is.
If a team is 0-4 aganist the Top 50, or 2-6 against the Top 100, they probably don't deserve to be in the tournament.
I know it sucks, but for many schools (even P5 schools), the time to make noise is in OOC tournaments.
It's the only chance you'll have at getting a fair crack at many schools.
If you're a hopeful "at-large" team, and you can't go to a neutral court and beat other "at-large" teams, and then you lose a few games in a terrible conference, you get what you deserve.
And fair or not, I think that's what factors in to a lot of coaches making iffy coaching moves.
You need resources from your program, and you need resources from your conference.
If the conference can't provide TV revenue, ticket revenue, or consistent quality opponents, that factors in almost as much as the program not getting resources from their respective university.

Yeah, right, "neutral court." We just came from a "neutral court" and I'm still seeing everything in flourescent green and yellow.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 7 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote: Yeah, right, "neutral court." We just came from a "neutral court" and I'm still seeing everything in flourescent green and yellow.

NCAA Tournament early round games can have a clear bias since they try to place low seeds closer to home... If that's what you choose to define neutral court by, than so be it.
But I'm pretty sure URI got a shot at Duke this year in Connecticut, last I knew Mohegan wasn't a home away from home for Duke.
They also played Kansas and Florida at MSG this year. Theywent to UNLV, and played Elon at Greensboro, not exactly neutral but whatever.
2 years ago, Duke played Kentucky in Chicago, VCU & Gtown in tournament games at MSG, as well as a neutral against Utah there.
3 years ago, Duke played Michigan St. in Indy, Temple and Stanford in tournament games in Brooklyn, @ Wisconsin, and UCONN in New Jersey.
I'm not saying playing Duke or similar teams on a neutral court is easy or obtainable, but there are plenty of tournament games to be had against good schools no where close to their home court.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 7 years ago

Hey anything that gets Gottlieb off my TV I am all for.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

Rhoades well received arriving at VCU. Promises return to Havoc defense that Wade abandoned. Also says he does not want to go anywhere else as he is "home"
Trying to keep VCUs top25 ranked recruiting class of 4 intact.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... ball-coach

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 7 years ago

Gottlieb just changed to cbs radio also

Her would be a bad hire at Okla State he has no experience

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

But Gottlieb knows everything about basketball!
Just ask him.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 7 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:But Gottlieb knows everything about basketball!
Just ask him.

Just like a vegan, you don't need to ask. He will tell you.

Rhody15 · Unread post by **Rhody15** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:But Gottlieb knows everything about basketball!
Just ask him.
Just like a vegan, you don't need to ask. He will tell you.

Or someone who does crossfit. (apologies if anyone actually does do crossfit

)

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 7 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Rhode_Island_Red wrote: Yeah, right, "neutral court." We just came from a "neutral court" and I'm still seeing everything in flourescent green and yellow.
NCAA Tournament early round games can have a clear bias since they try to place low seeds closer to home... If that's what you choose to define neutral court by, than so be it.
But I'm pretty sure URI got a shot at Duke this year in Connecticut, last I knew Mohegan wasn't a home away from home for Duke.
They also played Kansas and Florida at MSG this year. Theywent to UNLV, and played Elon at Greensboro, not exactly neutral but whatever.
2 years ago, Duke played Kentucky in Chicago, VCU & Gtown in tournament games at MSG, as well as a neutral against Utah there.
3 years ago, Duke played Michigan St. in Indy, Temple and Stanford in tournament games in Brooklyn, @ Wisconsin, and UCONN in New Jersey.
I'm not saying playing Duke or similar teams on a neutral court is easy or obtainable, but there are plenty of tournament games to be had against good schools no where close to their home court.

Duke and the rest of the ACC has displayed their clear superiority to the rest of the college basketball world in the NCAA's haven't they?

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 7 years ago

Love seeing the ACC struggle in this tourney

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 7 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Some might go with Wade to LSU yes......

Rambone if a school releases a recruit from their signed commitment (they almost always do), they provide a list of schools they wouldn't approve a release to. It ALWAYS includes the school their coach went to.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

The ACC this year had a lot of good teams....but not great teams.

Duke may have been, but they got derailed with injuries and Allen's issues......and UNC is very good, but they've had a few stinkers [for them] this season, and they are actually very lucky to still be in this tournament thanks to the refs in their last game.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 7 years ago

UCH21377 wrote:
Duke and the rest of the ACC has displayed their clear superiority to the rest of the college basketball world in the NCAA's haven't they?

Isn't that the beauty of college basketball, that anything can happen on any day?
Last year the ACC put 4 in the Elite 8, 2 in the Final Four.
This year, they struggle big-time.
For many of these up-and-coming coaches, it has to be about getting in the best position to make the dance.
Anything can happen at that point.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

What would have been awesome, is we were 2 minutes away from going deeper in the tourney than Duke.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 7 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:What would have been awesome, is we were 2 minutes away from going deeper in the tourney than Duke.

Danny Ferry is still a punk.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

And Oregon has their share of them too.....and need I bring up Arthur Lee again?

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 7 years ago

Rhody83 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:Some might go with Wade to LSU yes......
Rambone if a school releases a recruit from their signed commitment (they almost always do), they provide a list of schools they wouldn't approve a release to. It ALWAYS includes the school their coach went to.

Not entirely accurate. Hurley brought Aaman with him from Wagner, Shaka brought Tevin Mack (since released from the program) with him from VCU to Texas, and that's just two quick examples off the top of my head.

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 7 years ago

giovanni wrote:

The Duquesne job is tough and has been a career killer. Just about everyone that coached there in the last 30 years was fired. Not one of them ever got a better head coaching job afterward.

COACH | TENURE | RECORD | WIN%
===========================================
Mike Rice | 1978–1982 | 62–49 | 0.559
Jim Satalin | 1982–1989 | 85–120 | 0.415
John Carroll | 1989–1995 | 73–98 | 0.427
Scott Edgar | 1995–1998 | 29–55 | 0.345
Darelle Porter | 1998–2001 | 23–64 | 0.264
Danny Nee | 2001–2006 | 42–102 | 0.292
Ron Everhart | 2006–2012 | 99–89 | 0.527
Jim Ferry | 2012–2017 | 60–97 | 0.382
ALL | 1978-2017 | 473-674 | 0.412

Duquesne Postseason History since 1978:
Four NITS (1980/1981/1994/2009) and three CBI's (2010/2011/2016)

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 7 years ago

Good story in Pittsburgh paper about Ron Everhart, He is only coach in recent memory to have some type of success at Duquense, and they fired him.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/joe- ... on=pgevoke

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

Only one of last 8 Duquesne coaches to have a winning record.
What were they thinking, by firing him?

PillPushr · Unread post by **PillPushr** » 7 years ago

Please correct me if I am wrong, but were there some rumors of cheating/wrongdoing under Everhart that lead to his dismissal?

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 7 years ago

I guess I was not alone in my thinking.

Found this post on another forum:

Matt Norlander and Gary Parrish, on their CBS college basketball podcast were talking about coaching changes and theories on why Will Wade left a great job at VCU for an average job at LSU in a p5 conference. Parrish put forward the theory based on his conversations with coaches that in this day and age with more and more NCAA bubble bids going to schools in p5 conferences and all the advantages they have in terms of revenue, scheduling in and out of conference that some coaches are saying its easier to make the NCAA as say the 5th best team in the SEC or the 9th best team in the ACC than it is to be the 2nd best team in the A-10. The old way of thinking was that it's better to be at a top 3 job in a bad league than a bottom 3 job in a good league. They went on to talk about with P5 teams expanding the number of in-conference games to 20 for some leagues, and them having the leverage to schedule other P5 teams from other conference in the OOC schedule which will leave teams like Illinois State or other "mid-majors" with less chances for good OOC wins, and then come selection time they will be knocked for not having more top-50 wins.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

Don't recall that. Some rumors due to the dismissal of
a successful coach.
This statement issued by Duquesne is the ultimate example of
cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
It's truly laughable in retrospect.

"“[Everhart] has stalled at a modest plateau with our program,” wrote then-Duquesne president Charles Dougherty, who by “modest” must have meant “miraculous.” “It is clear that we will not be capable of moving to the next level of excellence with Ron at the helm. By next level, I mean annual contention for the top of the A-10 conference, regular appearances in the NIT and periodic appearances in the NCAA tournaments.”

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

RF1 wrote:I guess I was not alone in my thinking.

Found this post on another forum:

Matt Norlander and Gary Parrish, on their CBS college basketball podcast were talking about coaching changes and theories on why Will Wade left a great job at VCU for an average job at LSU in a p5 conference. Parrish put forward the theory based on his conversations with coaches that in this day and age with more and more NCAA bubble bids going to schools in p5 conferences and all the advantages they have in terms of revenue, scheduling in and out of conference that some coaches are saying its easier to make the NCAA as say the 5th best team in the SEC or the 9th best team in the ACC than it is to be the 2nd best team in the A-10. The old way of thinking was that it's better to be at a top 3 job in a bad league than a bottom 3 job in a good league. They went on to talk about with P5 teams expanding the number of in-conference games to 20 for some leagues, and them having the leverage to schedule other P5 teams from other conference in the OOC schedule which will leave teams like Illinois State or other "mid-majors" with less chances for good OOC wins, and then come selection time they will be knocked for not having more top-50 wins.

Sounds about right.

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