Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

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NorthernRamFan
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Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by NorthernRamFan »

This is a 1000% serious post, as someone who knows a bit about how Hurley has his scouting done people on this board need to understand that the first seat on the bench is the "lead" seat. This meaning that whichever assistant is in this chair has the scout for that game. They literally rotate the scouting assignment between the 3 assisntants and then Dan tweaks the scouting report before the team sees it. I can tell you I have noticed a trend and I have mentioned this on this board before...

Tonight the coach in the seat was Jim Carr, Friday it was Antonio, the game before that was Dave Cox and then back to Jim Carr. Now I'm the type of person who doesn't like to factor in games like Dayton because I truly believe that game can go either way, but I'll tell you this... Jim Carr is 1-6 (I'm not including the ass whooping we put on SLU or Cincy do to what I feel are obvious reasons (SLU sucks and the team rode JG getting hurt to the Cincy victory)). Those losses not only include tonight's piss poor performance, but also our embarrassing losses to LaSalle, Richmond, Houston, Dayton (away) and Valpo...

I literally watched Hurley himself tune Carr out down the stretch and listen to Cox because it was clear that Jim wasn't getting the job done... as a HC you're only as strong as your assistants in CBB. This pertains to everything from recruiting to scouting to in game adjustments to off season development. I say it's time to move Jim Carr into a different position or show him the door...
Last edited by NorthernRamFan 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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rambone 78
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by rambone 78 »

NRF, you are dead on.....I have talked to some people about that and totally agree with you about the importance of a coach's staff......

And thanks for pointing out the trend.....I knew Carr was the scout for the LaSalle game and we weren't prepared one bit for that game.

that's pretty damning stuff. But it comes down to Dan's stubbornness...Carr's been with him for a long time......but it might be time to make a change in the offseason. There's also been an issue with player development, which Carr is supposed to be heavily involved with.

Bring in an experienced hand to help with game planning etc.....and replace the weakest link in the chain.
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rodfromcranston
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Watch out NRF.
You could get accused of trying to get
someone fired.
When I suggested he be moved to DBO,
that's what I was accused of.
Nobody bothered to get my side of it, and took it as gospel.
Suddenly, I was a pariah to people who used to be friendly with me.
Something I won't soon forget.
Last edited by rodfromcranston 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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TruePoint
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by TruePoint »

One thing I have been consistent about since early on, and I know a lot of people that don't agree with me on much do agree with me on this:

What does Jim Carr actually do? I know he and Dan go way back. I know he has a very sympathetic family backstory.

But he does not seem to bring a lot to the table. I've talked before about the need to bring in a X's and O's focused tactician on the staff. Replacing Carr with a guy like that would be a move that I have favored for a long time - and at this point replacing Carr with anyone would be something I could get behind.
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rambone 78
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by rambone 78 »

TP, Dan clearly needs help...and I'm all for it.

Thorr could demand that it be done......there definitely needs to be some kind of shakeup.
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reef
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by reef »

Is this what most college teams do have a different assistant coach scout different teams ? I think that's kind of dumb

It seems like Cox is DH right hand man as sometimes you see Cox diagramming a play before DH talks to the team

At least ARD helps with the big men looks like Carr does nothing
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rodfromcranston
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Not sure how much input Thorr has on hiring or firing
assistant coaches.
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BleedBlue87
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by BleedBlue87 »

Good points NRF. I didn't really pay to much attention to that.
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section(105)
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by section(105) »

......all this and more would be part of that analysis/evaluation I posted elsewhere.....good points on the game record of the Jim Carr assigned games....
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RhowdyRam02
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

NorthernRamFan wrote:I literally watched Hurley himself tune Carr out down the stretch and listen to Cox because it was clear that Jim wasn't getting the job done... as a HC you're only as strong as your assistants in CBB. This pertains to everything from recruiting to scouting to in game adjustments to off season development. I say it's time to move Jim Carr into a different position or show him the door...
I did notice that at the end of the game Cox seemed to be more active. I'm going to try and go back to old pregame shows this weekend and see if I can accurately piece together who the scout coach is for every game. It's something I wanted to do last year or the year before and couldn't keep up with.
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Running Ram
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by Running Ram »

Be careful NRF, be very careful, don't want to ruffle any feathers.

In all seriousness though, my opinion on it is the "buck stops" with DH, if indeed there is something to your observations NRF and I believe there is, then Dan has endorsed Carr's work continually by putting it into action, also Carr's scouting doesn't affect player development, which under this regime has been as lacking as game management. I really don't believe moving Carr to a non-coaching spot will bring DH to new heights, at this point I just think DH is good at what he's good at and not so good at the other stuff, and I for one am done waiting for him to grow into something else. 5 seasons no expectations met, to believe they will be met going forward is insane.
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ATPTourFan
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

Pregame shows aren't available on-demand, unfortunately.
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josephski
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by josephski »

You might be right to some extent but I don't think you can blame the away Dayton loss on Carr or a couple of the others you mention. Definitely LaSalle and Fordham may have something to do with Carr.

Ultimately everything falls back on the head coach. As far as I know no one forced Hurley into hiring Carr or to let Carr be the scout on the majority of our important games. If something wasn't working out with Carr then it's on Hurley to make a change. I guess making a change in the offseason is better than nothing but overall all the coaching staff shares some of the responsibility for what has happened this season with Hurley being the leader.
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RF1
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by RF1 »

If one of the assistants is truly a major key to the issues, Thorr should demand he be replaced. If Hurley balks, tell him he can leave without penalty should he so choose. Hurley has had five years to do it his way and it is not working. Time to intervene.
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eli#10
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by eli#10 »

It may be too early to pass judgement but I am wondering how much ARD has helped with the big guys.
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reef
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by reef »

He sure hasn't helped with CLs offensive game which is truly offensive
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NorthernRamFan
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by NorthernRamFan »

Little ribbon to put on this, but down the stretch (i.e. The A10 Tourney and NCAAs) I never noticed who was in the lead chair, but I do remember Jim Carr not being there. Glad Danny made the shake up that was needed. Sooooo happy to be A10 Champs!
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DC_Rams
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by DC_Rams »

Coach Cox has had the scout for the last 7/8 games. He is truly an asset to the staff. He could easily step in if Hurley is by chance "woo'ed" away.
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Iggy1979
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Re: Pay Attention to the First Chair!!!

Unread post by Iggy1979 »

This is a crazy thread.
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