Week #13 - Games of Interest

Talk about the men's team, upcoming opponents and news from around college hoop.
ramster
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by ramster »

Cincinnati got off to a bad start falling behind 9-0 before they scored. Tied at 30-30 halftime.
With 6 minutes left in the game Cincinnati was behind by 11 points but came back and won by 2 points.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Cinci with the last second win!
Caupain hit the game winner with 4.4 left.
Cinci is now 20-2. They have really been taking care of business this year.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Tulsa +10 was the play nice home dog
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Last night on the bubble:

Last 4 bye Kansas State lost vs. last 4 in TCU 86-80
Last 4 bye VCU won vs. Richmond 81-74
Last 4 bye Miami lost vs. #15 Florida State 75-57
Last 4 bye Clemson won vs. next 4 out Georgia Tech 74-62
First 4 out Wichita State won at Drake 77-69
First 4 out Seton Hall lost at Xavier 72-70
First 4 out Texas Tech lost at Texas 62-58

Bubble teams are now 26-22 in games I've tracked
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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No Thursday night action in the A-10

Games involving URI OOC opponents:

Florida International at Old Dominion. 7 PM.

Northeastern at William & Mary. 7 PM..

Valparaiso at Milwaukee. 8 PM. On ESPN3.

Belmont at Murray State. 9 PM. On ESPNU.

Other game of note.

#1 Gonzaga with a 22-0 record goes into Provo to play 16-7 BYU. 11 PM. On ESPN2.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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One bubble game tonight as 4th out California hosts 8th out Utah at 9 on the Pac 12 Network
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

ramster wrote:interesting view of the qualifications of the 10 members of the selection committee

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketba ... -makeover/
Ramster, just out of curiosity, what is important to you in a tournament team?

Total win percentage?
SOS?
Top 25 Wins?
Top 50 Wins?
Top 100 Wins?
100+ Losses?
200+ Losses?
Top 50 Neutral/Road Wins?

How would you rank the importance of each category? Or are there any in there that mean more than those? I'd be curious how you rank the metrics.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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rjsuperfly66 wrote:
ramster wrote:interesting view of the qualifications of the 10 members of the selection committee

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketba ... -makeover/
Ramster, just out of curiosity, what is important to you in a tournament team?

Total win percentage?
SOS?
Top 25 Wins?
Top 50 Wins?
Top 100 Wins?
100+ Losses?
200+ Losses?
Top 50 Neutral/Road Wins?

How would you rank the importance of each category? Or are there any in there that mean more than those? I'd be curious how you rank the metrics.
If he's playing the part of the Committee, you simply move the goalposts to whatever metric lets you justify snubbing non P5 schools for less deserving P5 schools.

Team X:

22-7, RPI of 28
3-1 vs Top 25
4-3 vs Top 50
7-5 vs Top 100

Please, make the case that isnt a tournament team...because the committee last year found a way to move the goalposts enough to pass them up for teams 30+ spots lower in the RPI rankings and with .500 or worse records against the top 100.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:
ramster wrote:interesting view of the qualifications of the 10 members of the selection committee

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketba ... -makeover/
Ramster, just out of curiosity, what is important to you in a tournament team?

Total win percentage?
SOS?
Top 25 Wins?
Top 50 Wins?
Top 100 Wins?
100+ Losses?
200+ Losses?
Top 50 Neutral/Road Wins?

How would you rank the importance of each category? Or are there any in there that mean more than those? I'd be curious how you rank the metrics.
If he's playing the part of the Committee, you simply move the goalposts to whatever metric lets you justify snubbing non P5 schools for less deserving P5 schools.

Team X:

22-7, RPI of 28
3-1 vs Top 25
4-3 vs Top 50
7-5 vs Top 100

Please, make the case that isnt a tournament team...because the committee last year found a way to move the goalposts enough to pass them up for teams 30+ spots lower in the RPI rankings and with .500 or worse records against the top 100.
My point isn't to move the goalposts on Ramster, but just to get insight as to what is important and try to remove conference bias/unbias from it.
So to Generic Team X, what is important? Weight it ... Then we can look at it without saying "That team is in X conference and anyone from conference Y and Z is getting screwed."

And for the record, I would agree St. Bonaventure's got screwed last year, because all of their metrics stack up like a tournament team. Now, if you wanted me to argue against them? Their KenPom was something like 88, their KenPom SOS was in the 100s, their Sagarin was an 83, their BPI was an 86, their Massey was an 85, their Massey Composite was 70, etc. That is the danger of the committee considering using more predictive measures, something they have started to dabble into in the past.
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URI2006_Andy
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by URI2006_Andy »

William & Mary beat Northeastern by 25. So, for the time being, we just picked up an additional top 100 win. Shows you how arbitrary the 100 cut offline line is. Should it really make a difference as to whether William & Mary finishes 99 or 101 in the RPI. But nobody ever gets any credit for beating the 101st ranked team.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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We need to get 2 more top 50 wins to end up 3-2 there.

We also need enough top 100 wins to end up above .500 also.

Davidson will probably end up a top 100 team.

If we're below the Mendoza line on both we're screwed and tattooed.......
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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URI OOC opponents had a good night going 4-0.

Old Dominion had to rally to beat lowly Florida International, 64-57.

William & Mary routs Northeastern, 94-69. NE had beaten William & Mary earlier by s 20 points! The Huskies, who had started CAA play with 5 straight victories encapsulated within 8-0 run including a big road win at Michigan State, have now lost five of their last six games to fade from the CAA race.

Valparaiso takes one on the road as they whip Milwaukee, 71-53.

Belmont also gets a nice road win at Murray State, 81-64

#1 Gonzaga moves its unblemished record to 23-0 as they hold off BYU, 85-75.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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In last night's only bubble game, 4th out California outlasted 8th out Utah at California 77-75 in double OT

Bubble teams are now 27-23 in games I've tracked.

Ours is the only bubble game tonight.
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Obadiah
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Not much action tonight, but the one A-10 game is an important one for URI as they take on the Wildcats of Davidson at Belk Arena at 7PM with ESPN2 providing the telecast.

Among URI OOC opponents:

Brown at Cornell. 7 PM.

Princeton at Dartmouth. 7 PM.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:
ramster wrote:
Good think the Committee doesn't read our board. Most here thing the A10 only deserves 1 bid, maybe 2. Most think this is a down year for the A10, some saying the league is way down.

In my opinion the P5 leagues are way over represented. They play the vast majority of their OOC games on their home courts so they rack up great OOC won-lost records before conference play starts.

Also on our board we don't give much credence to the win over Cincinnati, despite their estimated RPI of about 12, thinking that win was more of a fluke.

The A10 Head Coaches need to be promoting the league as strong as possible to try to offset the other League self promotions. John Chaney was always pumping the A10 to anyone who would listen back in the day.
Ramster, you are so biased, it's not even funny.
The Top 8 teams in the ACC, the teams that bracketmatrix aggregates into the field, they went 31-12 against Top 100 teams OOC. The Top 3 of the A10, by comparison, were 10-10.
You say they beat up on competition at home.
Partially true ....
But let's look at some good wins for those teams ...
Wichita St., Indiana, Oklahoma St., Wisconsin, California, URI, Florida, and South Carolina, those were all ~Top 50 wins that occurred on neutral/road courts for those teams.
The rest of the conference produced ~Top 50 road/neutral wins like Marquette, Maryland, and VCU.
The A10, they produced 1 such win, you all know who it was, URI vs. Cincinnati at Mohegan.
That's it. For all of those tougher games they have to play on the road, because P5 teams just bash opponents at home, they produced 1 road/neutral ~Top 50 (which I took any team in the Top 60) ... Loss after loss after loss after loss.
So you can get on your soap box, cry about how there is a bias against the A10, that the media favors the ACC, the Big 10, etc., but the reality is if you perform in the OOC, if you beat the good teams on your schedule, you'll get the respect that you think you deserve.
And if you fall flat on your face, like the A10 largely did OOC, and you play in a conference where maybe 6 out of 14 teams will have Top 100 RPI's, people will look to dismiss you, as they have.

Please, clearly no one is talking about the top of the P5 conferences when talking about the bias.

The bias is the talk that teams 9, 10, 11 in the ACC are tourney teams. That is crap and you know it.

The idea that a 12-9 team that is 0-8 vs top 50 is even sniffing the bubble is laughable

No team that is sub 500 in conference play is a tournament team.

Sorry have to disagree strongly on this take a look at Clemson is 5-8 against top 50 and 11-10 against top 100. Clearly if they were picking right now they would deserve consideration. I will agree on Wake they are 1-11 against top 50 6-13 against top 100. I guess it depends on what is the more important stat to the committee recored against top 50 or top 100. URI by comparison is 2-4 top 50 and 5-8 top 100. I think you would have to agree Clemson would have the better resume at this point. Clemson also has a very good win at South Carolina.
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Obadiah
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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In game results last night in addition to the big URI win:

Leading practically the entire game, Brown notched a nice road win at Cornell, 81-70.

Dartmouth gave league leading Princeton all it could handle before faltering in last five minutes as the Tigers moved their record to 4-0 with a 69-64 victory.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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There is no arguing that the A10 is down this year. IMO things have to break right for the league to get 3 bids. 2 seems more likely.
The feather in our cap, that will never leave our cap, we have BY FAR the best win in the league (Cincy). Take care of VCU and Dayton at home and I like our chances.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Lots of Saturday action in the A-10:

Duquesne at Dayton. 12:30 PM. On NBCSN.

George Washington at Richmond. 2:30 PM. On NBCSN.

VCU at St. Bonaventure. 4 PM. On CBSSN.

Fordham at St. Joseph's. 6 PM.

La Salle at George Mason. 7 PM.

North Carolina A&T at Saint Louis. 8 PM. Strange scheduling against a 1-21 OOC team in the midst of conference play.

Rooting for Duquesne, GW, and the Bonnies to pull upsets!


Games involving URI OOC opponents:

Pittsburgh at Duke. 1 PM. On CBS.

Valparaiso at Green Bay. 1 PM. On ESPN3.

UConn at # 14 Cincinnati. 4 PM. On ESPN2.

William & Mary at Towson. 4 PM.

Marist at Manhattan. 7 PM.

Brown at Columbia. 7 PM.

Penn at Dartmouth. 1 PM. On ESPN3.

Florida Atlantic at Old Dominion. 7 PM. On ESPN3.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by woodennickel1 »

bigappleram wrote:There is no arguing that the A10 is down this year. IMO things have to break right for the league to get 3 bids. 2 seems more likely.
The feather in our cap, that will never leave our cap, we have BY FAR the best win in the league (Cincy). Take care of VCU and Dayton at home and I like our chances.
If they win both VCU and Dayton and avoid upsets they should be in good shape.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Agree Nickel, that also assumes at least 1 quality win in A10 tourney in order for Selection Sunday to not be a total crap shoot. A10 is down that much. I also am of the opinion good wins matter more than bad losses at this point of season, get those both and I can see us able to absorb at least 1 mediocre loss. They will put up the "Good Wins" column of our resume, need to populate it.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Go VCU, Dayton, Richmond, Joe's and LaSalle
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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bigappleram wrote:Agree Nickel, that also assumes at least 1 quality win in A10 tourney in order for Selection Sunday to not be a total crap shoot. A10 is down that much. I also am of the opinion good wins matter more than bad losses at this point of season, get those both and I can see us able to absorb at least 1 mediocre loss. They will put up the "Good Wins" column of our resume, need to populate it.
I agree about the bad losses I have seen in past years teams have a number of bad losses and not have it hurt them as much.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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yikes Dayton crushing Dukes 37-11
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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OK so my post woke them up? ;) 11-0 duquesne run!
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Big win by the Orangemen, watch out for them coming into the tournament discussion.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Dayton leads Duquesne 84-38 with 4 minutes to go.
Dayton leads in assists by a huge lopsided margin of 28-5
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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In today's bubble action:

Last four bye Oklahoma State is at #7 West Virginia at 5 on ESPNU
Last four bye TCU is hosting Texas and is up 48-47 with 15:28 to go
Last four bye Michigan hosts Ohio State at 6 on either ESPN or ESPN2
Last four in Georgia Tech is at first out Wake Forest at 3
Last four in Kansas State is at #2 Baylor at 3
Last four in Wichita State hosts Illinois State at 8 on ESPN2
Last in Miami is at NC State at 3
Second out Tennessee is at Mississippi State at 3:30
Fifth out Georgetown is losing at home to sixth out Seton Hall 65-64 with 1:31 left in overtime on FS1
Seventh out Georgia is losing at #19 South Carolina 14-11 7:58 in on ESPN2
Eighth out Texas Tech hosts Oklahoma at 7 on ESPNU
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Just watched Purdue beat Maryland on the road.
Freshman PG hit two free throws to win it. Ice.
Caleb Swanigan for Purdue, is a dream player.
Massive 6'9" 250lbs. with a 7'4" wingspan, who is 50% from 3, 79% free throw%,
can rebound, pass, and run the floor.
I'm guessing he'll be in the NBA next season.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Rod,
Don't know if you know the history of Swanigan but is is an amazing story, heartbreaking parts of it too. I think he weighed 400 pounds in the 8th grade and his father weighed well over that.
Unbelievable what Purdue has done for him. I reads long write up about him on the internet a few weeks ago. Well worth the read.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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All these 7-9 loss teams are beating or hanging with good teams today. We could use them all losing.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Holy cow!
Oregon is absolutely blowing #5 Arizona's doors off.
Great athletes at all positions.
Fun to watch.
Ugliest floor ever. Looks like used toilet paper.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Cincy up 19 on UCONN under 7 min to go in the game.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Bonnies VCU to OT...Entertaining finish to the end of regulation to say the least.
Bonnie fans may have cost their team a W
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Very entertaining VCU/Bonnie's

We'll see how this ends
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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There fans will be eating crow if they lose
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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ElmCityRhody wrote:There fans will be eating crow if they lose
Imagine the ink if that happened here....
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Tough loss Bonnie's !
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by bigappleram »

What happened in Olean? Saw them up 1 with 1 sec left.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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bigappleram wrote:What happened in Olean? Saw them up 1 with 1 sec left.
Fans/players stormed the court after a made 3 but there was 0.4 seconds left. 1 shot technical foul. Lewis hit it to go to OT and the rest was history.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by bigappleram »

Ohhhhhhh snap. Has that ever happened before? What a heartbreaker. Time to start rooting against VCU (and Richmond). The A10 is only getting 2 teams, have to think Dayton will play themselves into being 1 of them, we have to be the other.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by TruePoint »

Terrible job by refs to award a free throw there. I'm sure everyone on the court legitimately thought the game was over and it's dumb to punish a team because of their fans anyways. Should just clear the court and finish the game. Ref should be fired.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by ramster »

Essentially the game was over since VCU could not get a shot off in .4 seconds anyway.
But horrible way to lose after hitting that great 3 point shot.
A shame to lose that way. CANT blame the students because all the players thought it was over too. Clear the floor and let VCU throw it in. Fairness was not in the ruling here.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Exactly, don't hold them accountable for the rules...make it a "sanctuary court"
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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TruePoint wrote:Terrible job by refs to award a free throw there. I'm sure everyone on the court legitimately thought the game was over and it's dumb to punish a team because of their fans anyways. Should just clear the court and finish the game. Ref should be fired.
Clock clearly showed 0.4 left when they rushed, wasn't just the students the bench was onto the floor as well.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by Obadiah »

All good rules have exceptions, but to know when to apply an exception requires intelligence and sense of perspective. The refs in Olean showed neither.

Also, this situation brings to mind the first game in the Ryan Center when the Rams beat USC 73-71 in OT on a Dustin Hellenga jumper with 2.2 seconds left in the game. Hellenga was mobbed by his teammates in celebration while USC inbounded the ball and put in a three which seemingly gave the Trojans the win, but the subsequent review showed that the USC shot was released after time expired. Henry Bibby, USC coach at the time, went ballistic, not in objecting to the review results, but argued that URI should have been issued a technical foul for the on court celebration.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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......do we know who the refs were?......lead ref?......any suspects we are familiar with?
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by Billyboy78 »

The Bonnies bench was on the floor too. If VCU wanted to get it in quickly to get a quick, miracle shot, they couldn't have. The result of people rushing the floor was that the Bonnies now can set up their defense to defend a miracle shot. Would it have made a difference? Probably a zillion to one against it. But, still, something had to be done.
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by ramster »

twisted3829 wrote:
TruePoint wrote:Terrible job by refs to award a free throw there. I'm sure everyone on the court legitimately thought the game was over and it's dumb to punish a team because of their fans anyways. Should just clear the court and finish the game. Ref should be fired.
Clock clearly showed 0.4 left when they rushed, wasn't just the students the bench was onto the floor as well.
Yep, I watched the replay several times. Players were ecstatic and then the fans wanted to join in.
I have seen many basketball games and football games where this has happened and the refs made the court or field cleared and they then continued play. Never seen a technical like this. And it changed the outcome of a game that could not have been changed since you cannot catch and shoot in .4 seconds. Need .7 seconds to catch snd shoot. .4 seconds must be a tip.

VCU was favored by 1 point. This changed the Vegas winner too,
Imagine if VCU edges out URI or Richmond or Dayton for the NCAA bid and this game ends up being the deciding factor? Could happen

Maybe the rule but rarely ever enforced.
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RF1
Ernie Calverley
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

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Here it is:

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NYGFan_Section208
Frank Keaney
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Re: Week #13 - Games of Interest

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

Maybe the rule should be..."no one on the court to interrupt or interfere with the game...unless....enforcing the rule could have an impact on the outcome...then, it's ok."
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