Jim Baron 2.0

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giovanni
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:Where's Blue Man to tell us how dumb this thread is and how stupid we all are for not thinking Hurley's the greatest coach alive?
YAY circle jerk negativity party!

Yes this thread is still dumb.

No I don't ever recall saying Dan was the greatest coach alive. Nor the best coach in the conference. Nor the best coach in program history.

Pretty sure I just said that there is an ocean between Hurley and Baron. You're still dumb if you believe there isn't.

Yes tonight was unconscionable. Yes there is something seriously wrong in the locker room. Yes this season is over until the A10 final. Yes you will all still verbally fellate Hurley if they catch fire in Pittsburgh and dance.

Maybe there is an ocean of difference between Dan and Baron, but I'll ask again show me something tangible to prove this? There are many here who love numbers or "metrics" to prove how good this team is, defensively or what not, I would simply like to see numbers, or anything else for that matter thatdisplays Dan is head and shoulders above CFL, or this program is in far superior shape than Baron's teams at their best? I , have said myself, that comparing the 2 is an absolute joke, but the more I think of it, I really don't see a vast difference, besides the fact that this program is hyped more and Dan is better public personality to help further the hype. Not that he'll ever be confused for Rick Pitino, but compared to Baron, yes a much better public persona. Granted Baron was here for what seemed like forever, but I seem to recall more happy times or more enjoyable games early on in the Baron era. I actually liked watching over achievers like Lazare and Dustin Hellenga. They played very "hard" with not a great deal of physical talent. Certainly there were many bad times as well. But, again, at this point what have we accomplished under Dan? I am sure I will get the "he inherited a mess" and "it is so hard" and "this is URI, you can't expect to win, look at our history", "we are better off than Fordham".
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giovanni
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

And to throw in some "numbers", Jim Baron was paid, what I thought was a great deal of money to get to the greatest level of mediocrity possible, at least for URI, but Dan is being paid a helluva a lot more, for what can be considered a different level of mediocrity. The old saying was, you get what you pay for. At this point it would appear as if the University, despite their "think big" motto, is getting ripped off.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

The other thing people don't realize is after this season, Hurley will be half way to Baron's tenure here with the same results.

At least Baron waited until February to choke
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by BleedBlue87 »

Like I've said before, the title of this thread is garbage but it happens to be the thread where we talk about Hurley and his coaching. To me, it's become abundantly clear that this is not the guy to lead this program. Look, we got sold on a last name. That's on us. At this point, if we catch fire it will be despite Hurley. The sooner this guy is gone the better.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Rhody15 »

Baron's teams from 2007-2010 would wipe the floor with this years team. It wouldn't even be close.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by rambone 78 »

I just "liked" all your posts...can't express things any better.

This team is supposed to be so close in the locker room...but they can't be any more dysfunctional on the court.

We are not very good at basketball. Especially the easiest things...layups and FT's.

And the coach needs to go.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

Rhody15 wrote:Baron's teams from 2007-2010 would wipe the floor with this years team. It wouldn't even be close.
I still maintain that the 07-08 team is the best of the drought.

Jimmy, Daniels, Parfait, Seawright, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Mbang, Marquise and Martel as freshmen.

Daniels and Seawright would eat this front line up
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
Rhody15 wrote:Baron's teams from 2007-2010 would wipe the floor with this years team. It wouldn't even be close.
I still maintain that the 07-08 team is the best of the drought.

Jimmy, Daniels, Parfait, Seawright, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Mbang, Marquise and Martel as freshmen.

Daniels and Seawright would eat this front line up
Cannot be disputed.....club was loaded
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

rambone 78 wrote:RR2, it's kind of hard to blame Thorr for hiring DH....everybody and his brother [see what I did there?] thought it was a coup...even though Dan didn't have any experience at this level.

In many ways Dan has been great for URI....he's built the program from the ground up with help from URI itself.....of course any coach that Thorr and Dooley hired would have been expected to rebuild the mess that was left from JB.

I mean, that's a coach's job, isn't it?

But the other part, the part that counts from our perspective, is the winning part...and Dan has failed to follow through on his promises in that regard. URI hired him to 2 big reasons, to rebuild the program [check] and make the NCAA tournament and continue doing that on a regular basis.

The second reason has been a failure....he's had enough time to make enough improvements in the on court product....and it hasn't happened....he hasn't even approached the success rate of the previous coach which is especially damning.....

And the most depressing part of this? There doesn't seem to be much hope of enough improvement to get there in the near future....the same on court issues have remained from day one of his tenure...irregardless of the talent he's brought in.

Either the players he's recruited have been overrated [very possibly] and/ or he doesn't have the game coaching or player development ability necessary.

It's reached the point where there's little doubt that his promises won't be fulfilled here. It's time to tell the coach, either you find a way to make the NCAAT and soon, or it's time to move on.
Is it really hard to blame Thorr? If he doesn't get blame because everyone wanted Dan, then why have an AD, why not just have a fan poll to pick the next coach? I mean why do we blame Hurley when his players don't play well but don't blame Thorr when his coaches aren't performing? It's his job to get the biggest hire in the department right. If you're ready for him to fire that hire then he got it wrong.

But it's not just the basketball hire. Look at football since he's gotten here. It's gotten worse then it was before him, you had the CAA to NEC to CAA debacle and nine years in, by his own admission, he doesn't have a plan to fix the decrepit and once condemned East stands.

How about women's basketball, how has that done under Thorr's leadership? What about the softball coaching scandal?

The most successful hire he made was Raphael Cerrato with baseball, and he was a one year interim hire who was successful and therefore kept on after the year.

You can make a very strong case that Hurley was no worse then Thorr's second best move as AD and some of you are ready to move on from Hurley. So I ask again, what has Thorr done to give you confidence that he should be making future decisions for the athletic department if Hurley should be gone? If the buck stops with the coach when the team doesn't play well, doesn't the buck stop with the AD when the athletic department isn't winning?
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

giovanni wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
josephski wrote:Where's Blue Man to tell us how dumb this thread is and how stupid we all are for not thinking Hurley's the greatest coach alive?
YAY circle jerk negativity party!

Yes this thread is still dumb.

No I don't ever recall saying Dan was the greatest coach alive. Nor the best coach in the conference. Nor the best coach in program history.

Pretty sure I just said that there is an ocean between Hurley and Baron. You're still dumb if you believe there isn't.

Yes tonight was unconscionable. Yes there is something seriously wrong in the locker room. Yes this season is over until the A10 final. Yes you will all still verbally fellate Hurley if they catch fire in Pittsburgh and dance.

Maybe there is an ocean of difference between Dan and Baron, but I'll ask again show me something tangible to prove this? There are many here who love numbers or "metrics" to prove how good this team is, defensively or what not, I would simply like to see numbers, or anything else for that matter thatdisplays Dan is head and shoulders above CFL, or this program is in far superior shape than Baron's teams at their best? I , have said myself, that comparing the 2 is an absolute joke, but the more I think of it, I really don't see a vast difference, besides the fact that this program is hyped more and Dan is better public personality to help further the hype. Not that he'll ever be confused for Rick Pitino, but compared to Baron, yes a much better public persona. Granted Baron was here for what seemed like forever, but I seem to recall more happy times or more enjoyable games early on in the Baron era. I actually liked watching over achievers like Lazare and Dustin Hellenga. They played very "hard" with not a great deal of physical talent. Certainly there were many bad times as well. But, again, at this point what have we accomplished under Dan? I am sure I will get the "he inherited a mess" and "it is so hard" and "this is URI, you can't expect to win, look at our history", "we are better off than Fordham".
If you can't understand the tangible things like looking at the Ryan Center now vs then, the weight room and training facilities, the national press, the national tv games and all of the other things associated with the basketball program off the court that made us better in every area than we were when Baron was here I don't know what to tell you.

As far as on the court...everyone here has a really romantic memory of Jim Baron all of a sudden. I don't know if everyone is just so fucking bitter from not having made the NCAA tournament since before everyone had a cell phone or Dan Hurley stole their girl, but I don't get it.

Hurley has put us in a position to have a game against a ranked team every single year. 8 in OOC in 5 years. 4 of them were top 5. #1, #3, #4, #5 all played against the Rams in Hurleys time here.

In 11 years Jim Baron played 6 seasons without a ranked team in the OOC schedule. In fact he played a total of 7 ranked teams OOC in 11 years. I guess that's not tangible enough.

Everyone is bitching about Hurley not winning games that Jim Baron never even got us to.

In 11 years Jim Baron was 0-26 against ranked teams. In 4 and a half years Dan Hurley is 3-9. Is that tangible?

Jim Baron didn't get to the NCAA tournament in 11 years. Dan Hurley hasn't got there in 4.

Jim Baron underachieved with 4, possibly 5 teams that were talented enough to dance. Dan Hurley is in the midst of a disappointing season with 1 after rebuilding from nothing. That 1 could still get to the tournament, but since all you negative fucking nancies will shout about how terrible we are and there's no chance...say we don't dance this year; that's 0/1.

Jim Baron had a brand new state of the art arena and failed to achieve anything and took a program 2 years removed from back to back to back NCAA's with an elite 8 run and ran it into the fucking ground with violations and sanctions that affected the new coach for years. Dan Hurley had to bring that program back to the dead and all of a sudden the guy who killed it is better or the same than the guy who brought it back!?

You guys are on some fucking looney toons shit.

No this year isn't going as planned, but to say the program is in a worse position now than at any point in the 11 years before this present coaching staff is revisionist and insane.
Last edited by Blue Man 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by gorhody89 »

Blue Man some good points about DH playing and actually beating ranked teams in fewer years (although Nebraska was a fraud).

However, we have all heard about how intense Hurley's practices are, what exactly do they practice?

Players off top of head under Baron i think showed significant growth as players over their time at URI...Will Martell, Seawright, Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Hellenga, marquies, Bitee, Ulmer, D Robinson, Baron Jr. I am sure there are more but off top of my head those players as freshmen compared to the end of their career were very different players.

Now looking at Hurley's group (most much higher rated recruits), has anyone really drastically improved since they were a freshmen. Hassan Martin is a really nice player but he still has not developed a single post move other than his swim into the lane hook shot thing. (definitely improved his mid range jump shot)...EC absolutely gets a pass from his injury as he is definitely not fully there, but he was actually less efficient his soph year compared to fresh year.

I just don't see any drastic improvement from any of the players throughout their time here which to me is very frustrating and confusing when we all have heard about how amazing Hurley practices are.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

Everyone is bitching about Hurley not winning games that Jim Baron never even got us to.

In 11 years Jim Baron was 0-26 against ranked teams. In 4 and a half years Dan Hurley is 3-9. Is that tangible?

Jim Baron didn't get to the NCAA tournament in 11 years. Dan Hurley hasn't got there in 4.



Are you serious? 3-9. Against Nebraska? Serously? Thats like saying we were a legitimate ranked team when Duke beat us. Who else, was Cincinnati ranked? Yeah they are a good team, no doubt, but big deal, where has it got us? 0 and 26 also indicates the conference was much stronger. There are no ranked teams to go 0 and 26 against in this current conference make up. Hurley has gotten us to games that Jim Baron never got us to? What kind of comment is that? Regular season games? I think Baron and every other coach has done that? To Mohegan Sun to play Duke? We went to Duke and Syracuse during Baron's era and didn't embarrass ourselves.

Hurley hasn't gotten us there in soon to be 5 years and losing Hassan Martin, arguably his best player. So, yes he has a few more years to get it done, but he also hasn't given the indication he can get it done. And the bottom line is AT THIS POINT, is there is not much difference in both tenures. If he ends up winning the A 10 tourney this year or goes to the tournament in the next 2 years, it will be different, and all the best wishes to that possibility and any future success he achieves.

Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?

The Ryan Center was a nice benefit, one Al Skinner never had the benefit of and won. Ok. A benefit that was the result of what many consider a toxic coach, Jim Harrick's success along with Skinner before him. The arena is nice , but is not an end all to recruiting and still not a dump. A new weight room and better facilities should benefit the current staff also, no?

I am not trying to say Baron is better or defend Baron, he drove me crazy too. But to say the program is head and shoulders above Barons best years is flat out not fair and moronic. There were actually some good years here, did we forget? Like the team with Jimmy Jr, Ulmer, Cothran. that was mentioned. Certainly we felt many of his teams terribly underachieved and should have done more. Is this team any different right now? Who have they beaten, remind me again? Cincinnati and......... Nice to play a tough schedule, also nice to win a couple of the games. Right now, the biggest thing Dan has on his side in any comparison is the length of time he has been here, compared to Baron's tenure. But at this point, he has not achieved an ounce more of success on the court than the Baron era produced.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

gorhody89 wrote:Blue Man some good points about DH playing and actually beating ranked teams in fewer years (although Nebraska was a fraud).

However, we have all heard about how intense Hurley's practices are, what exactly do they practice?

Players off top of head under Baron i think showed significant growth as players over their time at URI...Will Martell, Seawright, Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Hellenga, marquies, Bitee, Ulmer, D Robinson, Baron Jr. I am sure there are more but off top of my head those players as freshmen compared to the end of their career were very different players.

Now looking at Hurley's group (most much higher rated recruits), has anyone really drastically improved since they were a freshmen. Hassan Martin is a really nice player but he still has not developed a single post move other than his swim into the lane hook shot thing. (definitely improved his mid range jump shot)...EC absolutely gets a pass from his injury as he is definitely not fully there, but he was actually less efficient his soph year compared to fresh year.

I just don't see any drastic improvement from any of the players throughout their time here which to me is very frustrating and confusing when we all have heard about how amazing Hurley practices are.
I can tell you from being friends with a good chunk of those aforementioned players that Baron barely coached in practice. He would say unintelligible and contradictory things, and then the players would look to Skerry or another coach to figure out what to actually do.

I am not sure what you're saying with the list of those players...but you think their improvement was because of their coach? Cat Mobley came back to URI many times. He said Ben Eaves had the most raw talent on our roster - but what does Cat know? Jim Baron never played Eaves. Just like Jim Baron never played Chris Holm who was stuck behind Jon Clark. Chris Holm who transferred to UVM made a tournament and led the nation in rebounds after he left.

Cat also tried to work with Delroy on putting an arc on his shot...which he never did. Delroy had probably the flattest jumpshot I've ever seen. So great coaching by Baron there.

Cat came into the locker room to give a pump up speech going down the stretch during one of the late Feb runs. Baron would keep interrupting his inspiring speech to talk about the importance of school. I thought that was wild considering the APR mess we were left with.

Will Daniels was a gift of natural talent. The strongest finisher I've ever seen in my 25+ years of consciously watching URI basketball. Everytime he got into the lane he drew contact and scored. Baron sat him on the bench to lose an NIT game. Baron didn't develop SHIT about Will Daniels. That kid was NBA if he had a legitimate coach.

Jimmy Baron is the greatest shooter to ever play for URI. Possibly one of the greatest pure shooters in the NCAA. It's a god damn insult to his work ethic that you are giving his coach credit for his shooting. As far as player development...um...what player development? If he had a half competent coach he'd be in the NBA right now. Jimmy never learned to create his own shot off the dribble. He was so ineffective at it that he had to develop a range that extended to half court. Jimmy never learned to play defense. What was worse, is that Jimmy very rarely, if ever, had a screen set for him or his number called. It was literally give the ball to #20 and hope he drains it from 40 feet. Not sure about the coaching there.

Dustin Hellenga? Like Jim Baron's first recruit who averaged like 10 points and Baron kicked off the team after 2 years? Wow great example.

This whole line of thinking where Jim Baron did shit great and Dan sucks is what's making this board unreadable.

Jim Baron was the absolute worst. Period. If Jerry D had stayed longer it would have been him. At least Jerry sucked so bad that we could get him out quick. Baron was mediocre enough to allow for a contract extension to drag out the misery.

Dan Hurley is not the greatest coach in the world. He's also not worse than Jim Baron. So now all of a sudden the people who understand that are being painted as blind fanboys for pointing that out.

I would LOVE to be able to talk about the issues I have with Hurley's coaching - substitution patterns, game flow management, style of press/defense, transition offense...all of that. But all of the jamokes on here need to be kept honest about what is and isn't happening with this program.

Hurley > Baron. URI Basketball now > URI basketball 2001-2011. Those are facts and if you're denying that you're just being a miserable hater who will never be satisfied with this basketball program no matter who the coach is.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Rhody15 »

I take any one of Baron's seasons from 2007-2008 / 2009-2010 over the shitshow this year. At least those teams gave us something to cheer about for half the season before their collapse. This season has just been a complete and utter joke / embarrassment.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

giovanni wrote:Everyone is bitching about Hurley not winning games that Jim Baron never even got us to.

In 11 years Jim Baron was 0-26 against ranked teams. In 4 and a half years Dan Hurley is 3-9. Is that tangible?

Jim Baron didn't get to the NCAA tournament in 11 years. Dan Hurley hasn't got there in 4.



Are you serious? 3-9. Against Nebraska? Serously? Thats like saying we were a legitimate ranked team when Duke beat us. Who else, was Cincinnati ranked? Yeah they are a good team, no doubt, but big deal, where has it got us? 0 and 26 also indicates the conference was much stronger. There are no ranked teams to go 0 and 26 against in this current conference make up. Hurley has gotten us to games that Jim Baron never got us to? What kind of comment is that? Regular season games? I think Baron and every other coach has done that? To Mohegan Sun to play Duke? We went to Duke and Syracuse during Baron's era and didn't embarrass ourselves.

Hurley hasn't gotten us there in soon to be 5 years and losing Hassan Martin, arguably his best player. So, yes he has a few more years to get it done, but he also hasn't given the indication he can get it done. And the bottom line is AT THIS POINT, is there is not much difference in both tenures. If he ends up winning the A 10 tourney this year or goes to the tournament in the next 2 years, it will be different, and all the best wishes to that possibility and any future success he achieves.

Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?

The Ryan Center was a nice benefit, one Al Skinner never had the benefit of and won. Ok. A benefit that was the result of what many consider a toxic coach, Jim Harrick's success along with Skinner before him. The arena is nice , but is not an end all to recruiting and still not a dump. A new weight room and better facilities should benefit the current staff also, no?

I am not trying to say Baron is better or defend Baron, he drove me crazy too. But to say the program is head and shoulders above Barons best years is flat out not fair and moronic. There were actually some good years here, did we forget? Like the team with Jimmy Jr, Ulmer, Cothran. that was mentioned. Certainly we felt many of his teams terribly underachieved and should have done more. Is this team any different right now? Who have they beaten, remind me again? Cincinnati and......... Nice to play a tough schedule, also nice to win a couple of the games. Right now, the biggest thing Dan has on his side in any comparison is the length of time he has been here, compared to Baron's tenure. But at this point, he has not achieved an ounce more of success on the court than the Baron era produced.

Do you not understand how basketball works? If a team is ranked when you beat them you beat a ranked team. Period. Jim Baron didn't. Dan Hurley did. Why in the FUCK do I need to keep repeating that?

So Dan Hurley not winning games against good teams is bad...but Jim Baron losing to Duke is OK?

Jim Baron beat possibly the worst Syracuse team in Jim Boeheim's 30 year tenure? That's what we're hanging his tenure on?

Dan Hurley's win against Cinci - an undisputable very good team, and by far the biggest win in the last 17 years doesn't count as good because why now? Because you just don't like Dan? Jesus fucking Christ man.

How do you not understand the impact of Dan Hurley being able to get us into major tournaments every single year he's been here based on NOTHING but his selling of the program?

Jim Baron played the #8 team in the country and lost 1 time in 11 years and that's comparable to playing #1, #3, #4, and #5 in your first 5 seasons as a coach?

There were actually some good years there? Under Baron? Where are Baron's NCAA banners that are the reason that everyone is bitching about Dan not having yet then?

Fucking Christ the hypocrisy here is maddening.

You're outside of your fucking mind, sorry.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by gorhody89 »

Blue man,

never said or will say Baron>Dan. I am not advocating firing Dan i am aware of the program improvements he has made, just disappointed this team is noticeably worse than 2 years ago with same players they were just younger(think we miss a player like Gil, had a few post moves and allowed hassan to play the 4).

Just bringing up the lack of development our current high rated recruits have had. That is an issue with Hurley worth discussing, along with substitution pattern, style of defense, transition offense, and roster construction(all guards and hassan). Would like to see a more aggressive press for all 40 mins, we are deep and athletic and it does seem to be effective when used. However it is only used when we are down by 20 with 10 mins left in game.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by adam914 »

Blue Man wrote: If you can't understand the tangible things like looking at the Ryan Center now vs then, the weight room and training facilities, the national press, the national tv games and all of the other things associated with the basketball program off the court that made us better in every area than we were when Baron was here I don't know what to tell you.

As far as on the court...everyone here has a really romantic memory of Jim Baron all of a sudden. I don't know if everyone is just so fucking bitter from not having made the NCAA tournament since before everyone had a cell phone or Dan Hurley stole their girl, but I don't get it.

Hurley has put us in a position to have a game against a ranked team every single year. 8 in OOC in 5 years. 4 of them were top 5. #1, #3, #4, #5 all played against the Rams in Hurleys time here.

In 11 years Jim Baron played 6 seasons without a ranked team in the OOC schedule. In fact he played a total of 7 ranked teams OOC in 11 years. I guess that's not tangible enough.

Everyone is bitching about Hurley not winning games that Jim Baron never even got us to.

In 11 years Jim Baron was 0-26 against ranked teams. In 4 and a half years Dan Hurley is 3-9. Is that tangible?

Jim Baron didn't get to the NCAA tournament in 11 years. Dan Hurley hasn't got there in 4.

Jim Baron underachieved with 4, possibly 5 teams that were talented enough to dance. Dan Hurley is in the midst of a disappointing season with 1 after rebuilding from nothing. That 1 could still get to the tournament, but since all you negative fucking nancies will shout about how terrible we are and there's no chance...say we don't dance this year; that's 0/1.

Jim Baron had a brand new state of the art arena and failed to achieve anything and took a program 2 years removed from back to back to back NCAA's with an elite 8 run and ran it into the fucking ground with violations and sanctions that affected the new coach for years. Dan Hurley had to bring that program back to the dead and all of a sudden the guy who killed it is better or the same than the guy who brought it back!?

You guys are on some fucking looney toons shit.

No this year isn't going as planned, but to say the program is in a worse position now than at any point in the 11 years before this present coaching staff is revisionist and insane.
Sounds pretty tangible to me.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Well, BM, you can call us all the names you want and drop
all the F-bombs in the world.
It doesn't change the fact that Ernie Calverley, Jack Kraft,
Tom Penders, Al Skinner, and Jim Harrick, ALL got us to the
NCAAs within five years or less of their coaching tenures.
Other than Harrick, none of those guys had the hype Hurley
has had, year after disappointing year.
Skinner won coaching from a trailor. His office in Mackel
had torn delapedated furniture.
Trying to do better than CFL is setting the bar pretty damned low.
Think big! I do.
Nobody was more enthused by Dan's hire than me.
He's done many good things, but the bottom line here is
"NCAA OR BUST".
It won't happen this year, and losing Martin and Iverson,
it won't happen next year.
Some of us here don't have another 18 years to wait for
an NCAA.
I'd love to see one before I go.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

"I am not sure what you're saying with the list of those players...but you think their improvement was because of their coach? Cat Mobley came back to URI many times. He said Ben Eaves had the most raw talent on our roster - but what does Cat know? Jim Baron never played Eaves. Just like Jim Baron never played Chris Holm who was stuck behind Jon Clark. Chris Holm who transferred to UVM made a tournament and led the nation in rebounds after he left."

Wow, I said that so many times about Ben Eaves, a couple of times on this board and more so privately and was typically taken to task and at time criticized. I have to agree Ben Eaves was not handled or developed properly . Baron also seemed to have some problems with Scott Hazelton before him who was also a talented guy.

Hey, I am frustrated, more than maybe I should be, maybe its my lack of life. And , again, I am not saying Baron is a better coach, no way. But to compare him to Jerry D in any way is quite a bit off the wall . Baron did have a fairly successful college career, whether we didn't like his lack of success. Jerry D wasn't even a h.s. coach and wasn't capable in any way, any way of running a program. His job was to get Lamar and babysit him.

So Dan's not having any tourney appearances is acceptable because Baron doesn't have any? So, yeah, it is true in our history we have very few appearances, so yes, it is ridiculous to think anything better. Acceptance of mediocrity is evidently a good thing.

Were you a band member by any chance? Sound very much like a guy I used to talk to that was a band member and felt he was a good b level intramural player, and therefore thought he thougt he was Jay Bilas. I know you are much younger, but your comments are eerily similar.

And for the record, I never said the program is in "worse" shape. Please provided me with that comment if I did. I did say, that the results, on the court, W's and L's are not much different. Thats all. A loyalty to Dan is great. But you haven't proven shit, besides you like Dan. Not sure if you understand how basketball works. The team with more points at the end of the game wins. The team with the most league wins also wins the conference and therefore has a good chance at being mentioned on selection Sunday. I don't think there will be a lot of people talking about what a good win Cincinnati was in March. It was very nice and I will say once again, they are a good team, no doubt. But without other wins it means absolutely nothing as far as making the tournament. Indiana St beat a very good Butler team. Very nice win, but guess what, It may be nice chatter about that day, but they will be watching the tournament too, in March.

And how is saying the program is similar in results with wins and losses to some of the Baron's team translated into I don't like Dan or have something against him? Since when is some criticism about what is happening with the team linked to the fact you don't like the person? This is basketball, D 1 level. A high risk , high reward business. If you have ever been outside of Kingston and around another program, especially a higher level program, you would see what goes on here is very mild.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

giovanni wrote:Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

Blue Man wrote:
gorhody89 wrote:Blue Man some good points about DH playing and actually beating ranked teams in fewer years (although Nebraska was a fraud).

However, we have all heard about how intense Hurley's practices are, what exactly do they practice?

Players off top of head under Baron i think showed significant growth as players over their time at URI...Will Martell, Seawright, Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Hellenga, marquies, Bitee, Ulmer, D Robinson, Baron Jr. I am sure there are more but off top of my head those players as freshmen compared to the end of their career were very different players.

Now looking at Hurley's group (most much higher rated recruits), has anyone really drastically improved since they were a freshmen. Hassan Martin is a really nice player but he still has not developed a single post move other than his swim into the lane hook shot thing. (definitely improved his mid range jump shot)...EC absolutely gets a pass from his injury as he is definitely not fully there, but he was actually less efficient his soph year compared to fresh year.

I just don't see any drastic improvement from any of the players throughout their time here which to me is very frustrating and confusing when we all have heard about how amazing Hurley practices are.
I can tell you from being friends with a good chunk of those aforementioned players that Baron barely coached in practice. He would say unintelligible and contradictory things, and then the players would look to Skerry or another coach to figure out what to actually do.

I am not sure what you're saying with the list of those players...but you think their improvement was because of their coach? Cat Mobley came back to URI many times. He said Ben Eaves had the most raw talent on our roster - but what does Cat know? Jim Baron never played Eaves. Just like Jim Baron never played Chris Holm who was stuck behind Jon Clark. Chris Holm who transferred to UVM made a tournament and led the nation in rebounds after he left.

Cat also tried to work with Delroy on putting an arc on his shot...which he never did. Delroy had probably the flattest jumpshot I've ever seen. So great coaching by Baron there.

Cat came into the locker room to give a pump up speech going down the stretch during one of the late Feb runs. Baron would keep interrupting his inspiring speech to talk about the importance of school. I thought that was wild considering the APR mess we were left with.

Will Daniels was a gift of natural talent. The strongest finisher I've ever seen in my 25+ years of consciously watching URI basketball. Everytime he got into the lane he drew contact and scored. Baron sat him on the bench to lose an NIT game. Baron didn't develop SHIT about Will Daniels. That kid was NBA if he had a legitimate coach.

Jimmy Baron is the greatest shooter to ever play for URI. Possibly one of the greatest pure shooters in the NCAA. It's a god damn insult to his work ethic that you are giving his coach credit for his shooting. As far as player development...um...what player development? If he had a half competent coach he'd be in the NBA right now. Jimmy never learned to create his own shot off the dribble. He was so ineffective at it that he had to develop a range that extended to half court. Jimmy never learned to play defense. What was worse, is that Jimmy very rarely, if ever, had a screen set for him or his number called. It was literally give the ball to #20 and hope he drains it from 40 feet. Not sure about the coaching there.

Dustin Hellenga? Like Jim Baron's first recruit who averaged like 10 points and Baron kicked off the team after 2 years? Wow great example.

This whole line of thinking where Jim Baron did shit great and Dan sucks is what's making this board unreadable.

Jim Baron was the absolute worst. Period. If Jerry D had stayed longer it would have been him. At least Jerry sucked so bad that we could get him out quick. Baron was mediocre enough to allow for a contract extension to drag out the misery.

Dan Hurley is not the greatest coach in the world. He's also not worse than Jim Baron. So now all of a sudden the people who understand that are being painted as blind fanboys for pointing that out.

I would LOVE to be able to talk about the issues I have with Hurley's coaching - substitution patterns, game flow management, style of press/defense, transition offense...all of that. But all of the jamokes on here need to be kept honest about what is and isn't happening with this program.

Hurley > Baron. URI Basketball now > URI basketball 2001-2011. Those are facts and if you're denying that you're just being a miserable hater who will never be satisfied with this basketball program no matter who the coach is.

newsflash for you, in the only metric that counts, wins and results, Baron > Hurley.

you talk about games one hasnt gotten to? Baron actually beat PC, routinely...

you talk about player development? you mean like Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Seawright, Martell, Parfait all being dramatically better players as seniors vs what they came in as?

who exactly has Dan developed? EC has flatlined, he has yet to take the next step from this freshman year.

you want to talk about what they inherited? why the hell are you acting like Baron was handing the keys to a Ferrari? He took over a program with sanctions, zero talent and in a free fall. btw, all those super facilities that Hurley has gotten, hasnt made a bit of difference in the talent recruited. Without Preston, his classes are average at best.

finally, you are off your rocker about Baron's scheduling. do yourself a favor and actually go look at the old schedules.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Obadiah »

Last year's team was 17-14 and we were bounced from the A-10 by an awful UMass team to make the overall record 17-15. We lost one player, McGlynn, a reputed three point shooter, who had only a very average year, but with EC back plus Robinson, many newcomers and a host of returning veterans with another year of experience under the belt, all URI fans felt good and believed all the ballyhoo Hurley was tossing about. But with one-third of season left our record is barely above last year's and it certainly looks like that the final record will not be substantially better. Not NCAA material. Not NIT material.
And will next year be better???

URI has experienced other periods when we missed the NCCA - droughts of 12 years, 10 years 5 years - but the current 18 year drought is the longest in history and given the high expectations that it would end this season, it is natural to see the level of frustration in the fan base. This is even more apparent in the Ryan attendance to date. And it is natural for the coach to come under fire considering that he is calling the shots on player recruitment/selection, training and practice, and in-game strategy. Five years is a lot of time to produce.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

Well said Obie
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
giovanni wrote:Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.

Woodward was the only hold over of note
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
giovanni wrote:Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.

Woodward was the only hold over of note
Brian Woodward was 1st in points and rebounds per game and 2nd in assists. Howard Smith was 1st in assists, 4th in rebounds. Lazare Adingono was 3rd in points, 2nd in rebounds. All three and Steve Mello were guys that he inherited.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by adam914 »

So who is going to start the campaign to get 'ol Jim out of retirement?
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by gorhody89 »

I didn't realize Dan Hurley and Jim Baron were the only two coaching options
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by adam914 »

gorhody89 wrote:I didn't realize Dan Hurley and Jim Baron were the only two coaching options
Me either, but according to this thread it sure seems like it. Sounds to me like you either need to think Hurley is as bad as/worse than Baron or you are a Hurley fanboy that thinks everything is perfect. 17 pages of this thread and repeatedly being told myself that "I think everything is perfect" tells me there is no in between allowed.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
giovanni wrote:Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.

Talk about foolish and hypocritical remarks. Anyone that says Jim Baron inherited a good program and good players, is not even worth talking to. I don't care how much you don't like Baron, that is simply ridiculous. Is it possible that Jim Baron actually did a good job coaching that year? Thats what may have resulted in the ridiculous extension? Is that possible? Maybe one of his best jobs? You insinuate he had good players? Wow. If Dan did that, his fan club here would have him on the Coach K or John Wooden level.

I don't like trying to defend Jim Baron in any way, but he did have some pretty good players over the years. His son, Duwan, James, Daniels, Cothran, Ulmer so on. Give him a bit of credit for getting those guys here at least.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

gorhody89 wrote:I didn't realize Dan Hurley and Jim Baron were the only two coaching options

Unfortunately it has been our only 2 coaching options for nearly 2 decades.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by URIFIJI »

Baron or Hurley....you can compare all day long. The bottom line on Hurley - its just a bigger tease. A tease that is costing the average fan more money. I love the preseason tournaments he is getting us into - they just cost more money to attend that the other bullshit that Baron got us into. Hurley is like a hot girl that agrees to go out with us once a week and never puts out - you never get to cash the ticket.

The program is in better shape right now but Baron IMO - got us much closer to an NCAA bid than Dan has.....what happened to the toughness he projects - last night those guys should have the right to wear KEANEY BLUE UNIFORMS....bunch of pussies. No heart - no heart - no heart. Lay down to an at best average Richmond team.

Who gives a fuck about Baron vs Hurley - we are still in no mans land - not even sniffing a NCAA bid.

Same old Rhody - get you to almost orgasm and then your mom interrupts
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

giovanni wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
giovanni wrote:Baron inherited a team a couple of years removed from a tournament. Did you happen to miss those 2 years Jerry D was around and what a mess the program was when Baron got here?
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.

Talk about foolish and hypocritical remarks. Anyone that says Jim Baron inherited a good program and good players, is not even worth talking to. I don't care how much you don't like Baron, that is simply ridiculous. Is it possible that Jim Baron actually did a good job coaching that year? Thats what may have resulted in the ridiculous extension? Is that possible? Maybe one of his best jobs? You insinuate he had good players? Wow. If Dan did that, his fan club here would have him on the Coach K or John Wooden level.

I don't like trying to defend Jim Baron in any way, but he did have some pretty good players over the years. His son, Duwan, James, Daniels, Cothran, Ulmer so on. Give him a bit of credit for getting those guys here at least.
Do your research. I did mine and showed my work. He inherited the players that got him his first NIT which got him his extension. Fact, not opinion.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by rodfromcranston »

Couple of points.
That NIT team of Baron's was the single best coaching job I've
seen at URI.
I never wanted CFL, and never liked him, but in that season,
give him his due.
He also was undefeated at home vs. PC, and beat them at the Dunk, too.
Secondly, I love how everyone totally ignores my Scott Drew story.
How a coach came into a football school, in Waco,Texas, with no tradition,
coming off the NCAA death penalty.
TWO Elite 8s, nationally ranked, 8 NCAAs,
and an NIT Championship.
Crickets from the Koolaide crowd.
Amazing.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

What exactly is it you want us to say about Scott Drew? He's better than Dan Hurley? Agreed. Then again, no one has ever said otherwise.

Like other people (Adam and Blue Man?) have pointed out, no one is saying Hurley is the best coach. We're saying he's better than Baron. If that makes you a Koolaide drinker, well I prefer fruit punch Koolaide over their other flavors, so pass me that kind.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:
giovanni wrote:
RhowdyRam02 wrote:
It was such a mess that most of the talent that got him his first NIT berth and his long contract extension were holdovers from the Jerry D regime.

Talk about foolish and hypocritical remarks. Anyone that says Jim Baron inherited a good program and good players, is not even worth talking to. I don't care how much you don't like Baron, that is simply ridiculous. Is it possible that Jim Baron actually did a good job coaching that year? Thats what may have resulted in the ridiculous extension? Is that possible? Maybe one of his best jobs? You insinuate he had good players? Wow. If Dan did that, his fan club here would have him on the Coach K or John Wooden level.

I don't like trying to defend Jim Baron in any way, but he did have some pretty good players over the years. His son, Duwan, James, Daniels, Cothran, Ulmer so on. Give him a bit of credit for getting those guys here at least.
Do your research. I did mine and showed my work. He inherited the players that got him his first NIT which got him his extension. Fact, not opinion.

Did your research? These people actually come off as serious. What is you research he got to an NIT? You are saying he got there because he inherited good players and a good situation? Incomprehensible. If you want to say Jim Harrick inherited a good team and players and you don't want to give him any credit for taking it to the next level, at least that is an argument. Jim Baron did indeed have a very good year coaching, that year. Thats what led to his ridiculous extension, cause he did do a good job, VA Tech came calling and the administration folded. They didn't give him an extension because he "inherited good players" Fact? Unbelievable.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Running Ram »

I have refrained from stooping to the level of those who would call me pathetic, nutjob, and/or crazy.

I'm going on the record, and I very much like many of the folks this applies to, but anyone here defending DH's coaching at this point is an idiot!!! DH is making you look like fools.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
Blue Man wrote:
gorhody89 wrote:Blue Man some good points about DH playing and actually beating ranked teams in fewer years (although Nebraska was a fraud).

However, we have all heard about how intense Hurley's practices are, what exactly do they practice?

Players off top of head under Baron i think showed significant growth as players over their time at URI...Will Martell, Seawright, Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Hellenga, marquies, Bitee, Ulmer, D Robinson, Baron Jr. I am sure there are more but off top of my head those players as freshmen compared to the end of their career were very different players.

Now looking at Hurley's group (most much higher rated recruits), has anyone really drastically improved since they were a freshmen. Hassan Martin is a really nice player but he still has not developed a single post move other than his swim into the lane hook shot thing. (definitely improved his mid range jump shot)...EC absolutely gets a pass from his injury as he is definitely not fully there, but he was actually less efficient his soph year compared to fresh year.

I just don't see any drastic improvement from any of the players throughout their time here which to me is very frustrating and confusing when we all have heard about how amazing Hurley practices are.
I can tell you from being friends with a good chunk of those aforementioned players that Baron barely coached in practice. He would say unintelligible and contradictory things, and then the players would look to Skerry or another coach to figure out what to actually do.

I am not sure what you're saying with the list of those players...but you think their improvement was because of their coach? Cat Mobley came back to URI many times. He said Ben Eaves had the most raw talent on our roster - but what does Cat know? Jim Baron never played Eaves. Just like Jim Baron never played Chris Holm who was stuck behind Jon Clark. Chris Holm who transferred to UVM made a tournament and led the nation in rebounds after he left.

Cat also tried to work with Delroy on putting an arc on his shot...which he never did. Delroy had probably the flattest jumpshot I've ever seen. So great coaching by Baron there.

Cat came into the locker room to give a pump up speech going down the stretch during one of the late Feb runs. Baron would keep interrupting his inspiring speech to talk about the importance of school. I thought that was wild considering the APR mess we were left with.

Will Daniels was a gift of natural talent. The strongest finisher I've ever seen in my 25+ years of consciously watching URI basketball. Everytime he got into the lane he drew contact and scored. Baron sat him on the bench to lose an NIT game. Baron didn't develop SHIT about Will Daniels. That kid was NBA if he had a legitimate coach.

Jimmy Baron is the greatest shooter to ever play for URI. Possibly one of the greatest pure shooters in the NCAA. It's a god damn insult to his work ethic that you are giving his coach credit for his shooting. As far as player development...um...what player development? If he had a half competent coach he'd be in the NBA right now. Jimmy never learned to create his own shot off the dribble. He was so ineffective at it that he had to develop a range that extended to half court. Jimmy never learned to play defense. What was worse, is that Jimmy very rarely, if ever, had a screen set for him or his number called. It was literally give the ball to #20 and hope he drains it from 40 feet. Not sure about the coaching there.

Dustin Hellenga? Like Jim Baron's first recruit who averaged like 10 points and Baron kicked off the team after 2 years? Wow great example.

This whole line of thinking where Jim Baron did shit great and Dan sucks is what's making this board unreadable.

Jim Baron was the absolute worst. Period. If Jerry D had stayed longer it would have been him. At least Jerry sucked so bad that we could get him out quick. Baron was mediocre enough to allow for a contract extension to drag out the misery.

Dan Hurley is not the greatest coach in the world. He's also not worse than Jim Baron. So now all of a sudden the people who understand that are being painted as blind fanboys for pointing that out.

I would LOVE to be able to talk about the issues I have with Hurley's coaching - substitution patterns, game flow management, style of press/defense, transition offense...all of that. But all of the jamokes on here need to be kept honest about what is and isn't happening with this program.

Hurley > Baron. URI Basketball now > URI basketball 2001-2011. Those are facts and if you're denying that you're just being a miserable hater who will never be satisfied with this basketball program no matter who the coach is.

newsflash for you, in the only metric that counts, wins and results, Baron > Hurley.

you talk about games one hasnt gotten to? Baron actually beat PC, routinely...

you talk about player development? you mean like Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Seawright, Martell, Parfait all being dramatically better players as seniors vs what they came in as?

who exactly has Dan developed? EC has flatlined, he has yet to take the next step from this freshman year.

you want to talk about what they inherited? why the hell are you acting like Baron was handing the keys to a Ferrari? He took over a program with sanctions, zero talent and in a free fall. btw, all those super facilities that Hurley has gotten, hasnt made a bit of difference in the talent recruited. Without Preston, his classes are average at best.

finally, you are off your rocker about Baron's scheduling. do yourself a favor and actually go look at the old schedules.
What results!? Everyone is bitching about Hurley not making the NCAA's? It's the middle of year 5. Jim Baron never made the NCAA's in 11...why does it seem like people on here are giving a pass to Baron on that fact and laying 11 years of Baron's ineptitude on top of Hurley's 1. Hurley's 1 year of underachieving that isn't finished yet.

Dan Hurley has been to the NIT. Jim Baron has been to the NIT. Dan Hurley took 1 NIT-caliber team to the NIT. Jim Baron took 5 NCAA-caliber teams to 5 NIT's. I thought we were thinking big? Isn't that what we're bitching about right now?

Wins and results are the only metric that counts? Holy shit if I didn't have a god damn job or social life and I sat on this board or dug up the old one I could find no less than 5000 posts that contain the words "cupcake schedule" and "20 win season" as a fucking punchline because of Baron. Anyone with a brain understands that 20 win seasons mean dick if you play everyone outside of the top 150.

So let me get this straight - for Hurley: run him out of town for no NCAA births in his first 5 years before the completion of his 5th year, while decrying that the only metric that matters is NCAA births. Jim Baron had none in almost 3 times as many attempts but somehow Baron > Hurley? That's your logic?

Games one hasn't gotten to. You are completely misunderstanding that. Pre-season tournaments. Games with national exposure, an RPI boost for the schedule, and a chance to play a great team. PC is on the schedule every year. Yes it is a black mark that Hurley is 0-5 against a rival like PC. If we're thinking big why isn't your goal beating someone better than a traditional middle to bottom of the Big East program? The PC of Hurley's era sure as SHIT isn't the PC Baron got to waltz against.

As for player development with the players you're listing...again, ignoring the revisionist styling of every post about Baron all of a sudden and pretending that those guys were astronomically better playing under Baron and not just their own development... I will repeat myself. That sure as shit wasn't Baron. That was Skerry.

I saw improvement from a whole host of Baron holdovers when Dan first got here. I've seen improvement on Garrett, until he got sick this year. EC got injured but it seems like he's coming back. EC's defense has also improved.

Hass martin has developed a shot from the elbow and a greatly expanded range from when he first got here, as well as his free throws. Hass' moves with his back to the basket and in the post were most definitely not here when he showed up.

As far as the keys to a Ferrari...um no, but still enough of a roster to fill out a bench and get to the NIT at least by year 2. Baron's holdovers were leading scorers and key pieces. Yes CFL may have done a "great" coaching job that year by getting those holdovers to play to their average...but by that same token aren't we just saying Baron is better than Jerry D? Yeah no shit. So is the basket of trash next to my feet.

Dan Hurley had to deal with a criminal hold over (who was a stud that got kicked off after the recruiting period and after Hurley signed). A malcontent holdover who Hurley had to cater to to fill a roster spot who never ended up playing. A lying asshole son of the former coach who committed to Hurley and waiting until after the recruiting period to reneg and follow his dad.

FIJI Baron got us closer to the NCAA's than Dan has? It took Baron 7 years to get to that point, and once again the season isn't over yet and with how inconsistent and talented this team is, you cannot say with absolute certainty that we don't win the A10 tournament.

To make matters worse for Dan...he couldn't even go after the recruits he wanted because the APR issues that Baron left him with were a handcuff for 2 years.

The super facilities Hurley's gotten? HE GOT THEM HIMSELF. They weren't given to him. Learfield buying the Ryan Center as a property? All the upgrades? Hurley. The weight room that has contributed to still the 2 highest touted HS recruits we've had since Odom, as well as the #1 recruiting class in the CAA this year? Hurley.

And as for me being off my rocker? Yeah you're god damn right I am because I'm king leonidas to an army of persian idiots who are misplacing their frustration on 17 years of bad basketball on a guy who isn't responsible for 1 full underachieving season yet.

As for Baron's schedule? Your reading comprehension sucks ass. I literally have posted on this same page and at least 4 other times in this thread about Baron's schedule. Considering all you can talk about is the OOC, since that is all the coach has control over, Jim Baron went SIX FUCKING YEARS without playing a ranked team. That's fucking ridiculous. He played a total of 7 OOC ranked opponents in 11 years. Dan Hurley put 8 on the schedule in 5. Oh yeah and in those OOC ranked games? Hurley actually won fucking 2 of them.

Like the most obvious criticism of Baron was always his scheduling. His soft ass scheduling was the reason we didn't dance.

Jesus just someone admit Hurley banged your wife or something so I can make sense of this argument. You are literally sitting here trying to defend the worst thing to happen to our basketball program to take it out on the guy who has at least given you a chance to be a relevant program again.

Again NO ONE on this board is saying Dan is the greatest X's and O's coach of all time, but you are high on fucking paint thinner if you can type "Baron > Hurley" without vomiting your soul out of your face.
Last edited by Blue Man 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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adam914
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by adam914 »

Running Ram wrote: I'm going on the record, and I very much like many of the folks this applies to, but anyone here defending DH's coaching at this point is an idiot!!! DH is making you look like fools.
Actually, I would argue that what is making people look like fools is not being able to see that 1.) saying Hurley isn't Baron and 2.) defending DH's coaching at this point, are not the same thing.

It is possible to think Hurley isn't Baron and still think Hurley hasn't done a good enough job yet. No matter how many times people point out they have problems with Hurley's coaching some still see any counter point to some of the absurd hyperbole that gets spewed around here as some defense of every single thing Hurley has done.

Now go ahead, someone follow up this post with something about how I think everything is perfect and I am a fan boy.
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giovanni
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

'Yes CFL may have done a "great" coaching job that year by getting those holdovers to play to their average"

Who are all these great holdovers that he won with? Brian Woodward? Yes he was a very good player, no doubt, but not exactly Lamar Odom type, a program changer. Lazare Adingono? Played with alot of heart, but I think he developed under Baron's tutelage , or the assistant coaches I mean, sorry. Another guy, not to be confused with a 5 star recruit. Who am I missing Howard Smith? Oh yeah, reminds me of Chris Paul. To say that was an NCAA team that went to the NIT is ridiculous. Please, ludicrous. Seriously have you ever watched any basketball outside of Kingston or the A 10? I certainly didn't like Baron, but give him a bit of credit. Jim Baron received his fair amount of criticism in his years here. You are doing to him what you are accusing others of doing to Dan. For the last time, I don't see a lot of people claiming Baron is better than Hurley. I definitely never said that. Nor did I say the program was in better shape with Baron. Didn't and won't say that. The only question I have raised anyway, is the programs success of the court during Baron's first 4 years much different from Dans first 4 years. Baron made 2 NITs in his first 4 years, Dan has 1 and this year is not complete. Dan has done a nice job getting us into these early tourneys. No one is saying he hasn't some very good things. But that is also part of being hired as a head coach, being paid a handsome salary. To do these things successfully and do them better than the guy you fired. And Dan has garnered us a lot of attention, some of which is because of his last name and having father and a brother who have done legendary things in basketball and have great connections helps too.
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giovanni
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

"It is possible to think Hurley isn't Baron and still think Hurley hasn't done a good enough job yet. No matter how many times people point out they have problems with Hurley's coaching some still see any counter point to some of the absurd hyperbole that gets spewed around here as some defense of every single thing Hurley has done.


This is a very fair point. But it also appears at times, that even the slightest of criticism or questioning of anything Dan does,is jumped on immediately, defended by whatever spin they can put on it and is escalated by making very insulting comments and attacking those who do ask a question or make some sort of criticism.. There will be different opinions, points of view regardless of who the coach is. That is sports. And this is a discussion board. And anyone who has a critique of Dan is lumped into a category of hating the guy. I don't get that part. There will be people that go over board and criticize everything. But there will also be those who run to Dan's defense in some manner with even the simplest of criticism.
Last edited by giovanni 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Gonebarongone
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Gonebarongone »

adam914 wrote:
Running Ram wrote: I'm going on the record, and I very much like many of the folks this applies to, but anyone here defending DH's coaching at this point is an idiot!!! DH is making you look like fools.
Actually, I would argue that what is making people look like fools is not being able to see that 1.) saying Hurley isn't Baron and 2.) defending DH's coaching at this point, are not the same thing.

It is possible to think Hurley isn't Baron and still think Hurley hasn't done a good enough job yet. No matter how many times people point out they have problems with Hurley's coaching some still see any counter point to some of the absurd hyperbole that gets spewed around here as some defense of every single thing Hurley has done.

Now go ahead, someone follow up this post with something about how I think everything is perfect and I am a fan boy.
Fair. I also think there is a difference between calling someone a 2.0 and Baron> Hurley. I think a 2.0 label means that they will end up the same over time. Harold Miner was Michael Jordan 2.0, right? Obviously, he didn't get there. The track of disappointment is becoming more and more similar. Close losses. Letdown losses. Offense isn't good enough to thrive in the most important points. The team is not as good as the sum of its parts. Hurley has a long, long, long way to go to reach Baron status. Is it unreasonable to think that he might reach "not good enough for p5 jobs to reach for him (non Rutgers schools) but good enough that he teases us with a decade of Lucy/football years" status? You aren't paying attention or you are being naive if that isn't becoming more (not less) likely to you.
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Blue Man
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

When I say 5 NCAA teams to 5 NITs, I'm not talking 1 for 1. Baron had 5 NCAA caliber teams - 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, and 2006. He made a total of 5 NITs in his 11 years.

The slightest criticism of anything Dan does isn't the problem. You'll find my posts in appropriate threads littered with laments about substitution patterns, whether or not rotations are set in practice, lack of feel for the game, not riding hot hands versus riding "starters" who are ice cold, why we don't press frequently etc.

The issue is this thread, it's existence, and the mere insinuation that these 2 coaches are even in the same fucking stratosphere makes every single person on this message board look like a moron in terms of college basketball, and dismisses any shred of credibility this board could hope to have as a mouthpiece for the fan base.

I feel like there's 4 or 5 of us who have to continually post the same shit over and over here because the people who already understand this stuff can't stomach reading the bullshit and just refuse to jump into the fray, while a few people are now actively DEFENDING JIM BARON AS A BASKETBALL COACH which is fucking bananaland to me.

There is plenty to critique and question about the coach and the team this season, that's why this board exists.

The second you start to go above that and say that Dan Hurley is anything like Jim Baron means you're dumb. Period.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RoadyJay »

Blue Man wrote:The issue is this thread, it's existence, and the mere insinuation that these 2 coaches are even in the same fucking stratosphere makes every single person on this message board look like a moron in terms of college basketball, and dismisses any shred of credibility this board could hope to have as a mouthpiece for the fan base.
BM, I agree with many of your points, and for the record, I would take DH over JB any day. But this type of comment always bothers me.

I don't think the goal of this message board should be to gain credibility with anyone. What does it gain us if someone says... "Wow, that's a smart fan base."

This is a place for us to come and share our opinions, ideas, praise, etc... and many times just to vent! I usually put the computer/phone down after a loss but if someone wants to post that they want to jump off a bridge after a loss then so be it.

If somebody wants to say Hurley is the worst coach in America, so be it.

I don't understand this idea that we have some standard to live up to or else someone will be out to get us. That we will not get a cookie unless we say the right things.
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Blue Man
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Blue Man »

RoadyJay wrote:
Blue Man wrote:The issue is this thread, it's existence, and the mere insinuation that these 2 coaches are even in the same fucking stratosphere makes every single person on this message board look like a moron in terms of college basketball, and dismisses any shred of credibility this board could hope to have as a mouthpiece for the fan base.
BM, I agree with many of your points, and for the record, I would take DH over JB any day. But this type of comment always bothers me.

I don't think the goal of this message board should be to gain credibility with anyone. What does it gain us if someone says... "Wow, that's a smart fan base."

This is a place for us to come and share our opinions, ideas, praise, etc... and many times just to vent! I usually put the computer/phone down after a loss but if someone wants to post that they want to jump off a bridge after a loss then so be it.

If somebody wants to say Hurley is the worst coach in America, so be it.

I don't understand this idea that we have some standard to live up to or else someone will be out to get us. That we will not get a cookie unless we say the right things.
I disagree but I'll explain why.

Obviously this is a cathartic outlet for most of us. This board's existence has probably saved many people (me) from destruction of property or assault charges by simply having a place to bitch and moan.

I also agree that anyone should be able to say that Dan is the worst coach in America if they want. That's fine too. People can spout off whatever bullshit they want.

However I disagree simply for the fact that no matter what anyone says the athletics department and staff do read this board. I certainly don't care about their feelings on saying so and so sucks or this sucks or whatever...that's all fair game on a message board and I am sure some of the same issues discussed here after a loss are discussed in circles there.

BUT the problem I have is for the things we all care about that are actually in the control of the athletics administration - replays, beer, fan experience stuff, Ryan Center things - when those legitimate concerns get brought up on the board, it provides an avenue for a change to happen that we'd want to see.

So when some people who don't set foot in the Ryan Center or don't donate a lot of money to the program put such an obviously stupid idea out there, like Baron being better than Hurley, and that is latched on to by a small segment of the fanbase with a very loud internet voice, it completely invalidates any legitimate gripes or solutions that are buried in the weeds of bullshit.
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by BleedBlue87 »

I think Adam said it best with "It is possible to think Hurley isn't Baron and still think Hurley hasn't done a good enough job yet." Maybe this entire thread go away and instead create a new one called "Hurley hasn't done a good enough job yet." Still going to get a lot of the same criticism but apparently the title change will make people feel better when Hurley's coaching is criticized.
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giovanni
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by giovanni »

"The second you start to go above that and say that Dan Hurley is anything like Jim Baron means you're dumb. Period."

Is it possible statements like this may upset people a bit? Hey, it's great you swept the floor or played the tuba during the Baron era and have a hate for the guy that is fine. But some others have different views and some that can be considered much more informed. That is a is problem with some, is that the only thing they know is the Jim Baron and Dan Hurley eras and teams. Period


"I also agree that anyone should be able to say that Dan is the worst coach in America if they want."

I am not going through this incredibly long thread which may be ridiculous, but I don't recall anyone saying that Dan is the worst coach in America. I don't really see anyone saying that Baron was a better coach than Dan either. Seems like you have twisted this to put a spin or your argument, whatever that may be.
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RoadyJay
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RoadyJay »

Blue Man wrote:
RoadyJay wrote:
Blue Man wrote:The issue is this thread, it's existence, and the mere insinuation that these 2 coaches are even in the same fucking stratosphere makes every single person on this message board look like a moron in terms of college basketball, and dismisses any shred of credibility this board could hope to have as a mouthpiece for the fan base.
BM, I agree with many of your points, and for the record, I would take DH over JB any day. But this type of comment always bothers me.

I don't think the goal of this message board should be to gain credibility with anyone. What does it gain us if someone says... "Wow, that's a smart fan base."

This is a place for us to come and share our opinions, ideas, praise, etc... and many times just to vent! I usually put the computer/phone down after a loss but if someone wants to post that they want to jump off a bridge after a loss then so be it.

If somebody wants to say Hurley is the worst coach in America, so be it.

I don't understand this idea that we have some standard to live up to or else someone will be out to get us. That we will not get a cookie unless we say the right things.
I disagree but I'll explain why.

Obviously this is a cathartic outlet for most of us. This board's existence has probably saved many people (me) from destruction of property or assault charges by simply having a place to bitch and moan.

I also agree that anyone should be able to say that Dan is the worst coach in America if they want. That's fine too. People can spout off whatever bullshit they want.

However I disagree simply for the fact that no matter what anyone says the athletics department and staff do read this board. I certainly don't care about their feelings on saying so and so sucks or this sucks or whatever...that's all fair game on a message board and I am sure some of the same issues discussed here after a loss are discussed in circles there.

BUT the problem I have is for the things we all care about that are actually in the control of the athletics administration - replays, beer, fan experience stuff, Ryan Center things - when those legitimate concerns get brought up on the board, it provides an avenue for a change to happen that we'd want to see.

So when some people who don't set foot in the Ryan Center or don't donate a lot of money to the program put such an obviously stupid idea out there, like Baron being better than Hurley, and that is latched on to by a small segment of the fanbase with a very loud internet voice, it completely invalidates any legitimate gripes or solutions that are buried in the weeds of bullshit.
I understand your point... and you are right. This board has influenced some positive changes for the fan experience. I also see that this board is used by the media to get a sense of what the fan base is thinking and what are their burning questions. I can't say for sure but I believe that some of the questions asked of Dan by BIll Koch or Will Geoghegan have come directly from questions asked on this board.

I have to believe though that the administration, athletic department, coaches, players, etc are smart enough to distinguish between what is meaningful and informative from what is just ridiculous and unintelligent banter. We've all said dumb things on here in the heat of the moment.

My point is, as professionals in their field, they should be able to filter what they take to heart and what they cast aside.

We shouldn't have to be the ones that put the filter on. We shouldn't have to consider how Thorr, Dr. Dooley, Dan, or EC Matthews will feel if we post something negative.

This is our house. We should be able to speak freely.
Last edited by RoadyJay 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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RhowdyRam02
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by RhowdyRam02 »

But here's the problem, people aren't speaking freely precisely because of how bad this board had become. Go back and look at some of the polls we've run on here, and the results are counter to the words being posted. People don't want to post on this board, in large part because of the ridiculous and unintelligent banter. The idea that fans should wage through 500 yards of shit smelling foulness to get a kernel of interesting talk is bad for the board.
Last edited by RhowdyRam02 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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josephski
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by josephski »

RhowdyRam02 wrote:But here's the problem, people aren't speaking freely precisely because of how bad this board had become. Go back and look at some of the polls we've run on here, and the results are counter to the words being posted. People don't want to post on this board, in large part because of the ridiculous and unintelligent banter. The idea that fans should wage through 500 yards of shit smelling foulness to get a kernel of interesting talk is bad for the board.
And that's on more people than just the "doom and gloomers". You've got users calling other people morons because they don't agree with their opinion, users trying to force other users off the site and there's always multiple responses from people bitching and moaning about one negative opinion that gets posted. There is a lot of garbage on here and it's not all from any specific group on this board.
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Da_Process_Survivor
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Re: Jim Baron 2.0

Unread post by Da_Process_Survivor »

Blue Man wrote:
RoadyJay wrote:
Blue Man wrote:The issue is this thread, it's existence, and the mere insinuation that these 2 coaches are even in the same fucking stratosphere makes every single person on this message board look like a moron in terms of college basketball, and dismisses any shred of credibility this board could hope to have as a mouthpiece for the fan base.
BM, I agree with many of your points, and for the record, I would take DH over JB any day. But this type of comment always bothers me.

I don't think the goal of this message board should be to gain credibility with anyone. What does it gain us if someone says... "Wow, that's a smart fan base."

This is a place for us to come and share our opinions, ideas, praise, etc... and many times just to vent! I usually put the computer/phone down after a loss but if someone wants to post that they want to jump off a bridge after a loss then so be it.

If somebody wants to say Hurley is the worst coach in America, so be it.

I don't understand this idea that we have some standard to live up to or else someone will be out to get us. That we will not get a cookie unless we say the right things.
I disagree but I'll explain why.

Obviously this is a cathartic outlet for most of us. This board's existence has probably saved many people (me) from destruction of property or assault charges by simply having a place to bitch and moan.

I also agree that anyone should be able to say that Dan is the worst coach in America if they want. That's fine too. People can spout off whatever bullshit they want.

However I disagree simply for the fact that no matter what anyone says the athletics department and staff do read this board. I certainly don't care about their feelings on saying so and so sucks or this sucks or whatever...that's all fair game on a message board and I am sure some of the same issues discussed here after a loss are discussed in circles there.

BUT the problem I have is for the things we all care about that are actually in the control of the athletics administration - replays, beer, fan experience stuff, Ryan Center things - when those legitimate concerns get brought up on the board, it provides an avenue for a change to happen that we'd want to see.

So when some people who don't set foot in the Ryan Center or don't donate a lot of money to the program put such an obviously stupid idea out there, like Baron being better than Hurley, and that is latched on to by a small segment of the fanbase with a very loud internet voice, it completely invalidates any legitimate gripes or solutions that are buried in the weeds of bullshit.
no, it doesnt invalidate anything. People are smart enough to separate within the lines game gripes from outside the line atmosphere gripes. Its not that hard to do.

Additionally, you can take your insinuation that those of us who are unhappy and complaining are somehow less of a fan and must not support the athletic department or go to games and shove it.

Get the fuck over yourself, you arent some special snowflake perfect fan who gets to sit on your precious little tower and judge who's ideas are relevant.

No one is holding a gun to your head and making you read any threads you clearly know will have ideas that upset your delicate feeings
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