Jim Baron 2.0

woodennickel1 · Unread post by **woodennickel1** » 7 years ago

RF1 wrote:If people think Hurley's Rams are going to blitz through the A-10 schedule, think again based on past history. His teams record vs the top half of the conference is pretty dismal . We will play these teams a total of ten games this season.

VCU | 0 - 4 | 0.000
Davidson | 0 - 2 | 0.000
St Joe's | 1 - 6 | 0.143
Umass | 2 - 8 | 0.200
GW | 2 - 3 | 0.400his
Dayton | 3 - 4 | 0.429
TOTAL | 8 - 27 | 0.229

Think those numbers are a little deceiving since some of those losses could have come in the first couple years when he did not have his own players. Plus I think St Joes , VCU, and GW are not as strong this year as in past years. They need to take care of business against Old Dominion and Houston. They need to win the Atlantic 10 regular season . If they do that all they wound need is one win if that in the A10 tournament.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

So what do you think is going to happen RF1?
Does not seem like there are many people on the bandwagon anymore. Just the creation of a Jim Baron 2.0 thread tells a story
URI has never won the A10 conference so I would not think that based on history anyone is thinking that is a given.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 7 years ago

ramster wrote:So what do you think is going to happen RF1?
Does not seem like there are many people on the bandwagon anymore. Just the creation of a Jim Baron 2.0 thread tells a story
URI has never won the A10 conference so I would not think that based on history anyone is thinking that is a given.

I hope for all of our sake that Hurley turns it around and starts to win the big games. I however am becoming concerned that it may not ever happen. I think his record is fair game for criticism and is in fact comparable to Baron. Hurley is here for several more years so we better all hope for success. I think the odds of him leaving Kingston by getting a much better offer decrease if he can't win big here. The shine is coming off. He now has a track record and is no longer the up and coming hotshot young coach. You can hire on potential when there is not much history to go on. That is not the case when you have seven years in D1 with no significant success. As we saw with Baron, it is far easier to build a program to respectability than it is to get it to the next level.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 7 years ago

Rhody15 wrote:Baron's 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 teams would CRUSH this team. Wouldn't even be close.

If we can make jokes like this, then the healing process has already begun.

Da_Process_Survivor · Unread post by **Da_Process_Survivor** » 7 years ago

Puck Frovidence wrote:
Rhody15 wrote:Baron's 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 teams would CRUSH this team. Wouldn't even be close.

If we can make jokes like this, then the healing process has already begun.

Ummm, it would. That team is by far the most talented one we've had post Harrick.

Jimmy, Daniels, Seawright, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Bitee, Marquis Jones, Mbang.

Seawright, Will and Delroy would run circles around this year's front line. Jimmy, Parfait, Cothran and Ulmer is a wash with EC, Terrell, Garrett, Stan

The downside to Baron becoming such a joke, is people forget the level of talent he brought in.

there are 6 1000 pt scorers on that team: Jimmy, Daniels, Seawright, Cothran, Ulmer, Delroy (Parfait missed making it 7 by only 81 pts).

you had a 1700pt scorer in Jimmy, and 1600 in Will.

Delroy and Ulmer are 2 of the better stat stuffers ever here:

Delroy - 1460p, 705reb, 204ast, 146stl, 105blk
Ulmer - 1082p, 712reb, 124ast, 123stl, 106blk

Not to mention, on pure leaping/athleticism Ulmer really is on another level.

And its a minor part, but no one outside of Hassan could handle Mbang or Jason Francis's strength down low.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 7 years ago

...mmm and how far did that roster take the 07-08 team? They ate some cupcakes in the OOC, got mashed up against real opponents in the A10 and went one and done in the NIT. Doesn't sound like world beating.

EDIT, because I want to clarify I'm denying not the talent up there, and that 08-09 team had a big win over Temple. But let's be honest, the only teams getting "CRUSHED" by that squad were your UNHs and Farleigh Dickinsons. This team looks shaky, not America East worthy.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 7 years ago

Hurley would play Mbang over Seawright.

Also, not sure Hurley recruits Will Daniels types. Baron always got height and athleticism on the perimeter until the wheels came off.

I like Thompson a lot personally. I think this team its getting hard to figure out who is the best in the back court outside of JG/JT. Thats good and its really bad.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 7 years ago

1000 point careers aren't what they used to be since they're now playing about 125 games in a 4 year career.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 7 years ago

Hurley is 45-28 (.616) since the 2014-2015 season. That includes last year without EC and Hass hurt much of the season.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

I think if things don't fall apart completely, that we will have a very good home conference record come March....7-2 or 8-1...however there's those pesky road games......6-3 maybe best case imo....but again, won't be surprised if we fall flat on our faces as usual........

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 7 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:I think if things don't fall apart completely, that we will have a very good home conference record come March....7-2 or 8-1...however there's those pesky road games......6-3 maybe best case imo....but again, won't be surprised if we fall flat on our faces as usual........

So you just predicted a 14-4 or 13-5 conference record. Nice!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

RJ, I hope we do that....I'm basing this on the A10 really sucking this year.....of course there will be a team or two that will surprise by mid season.....teams generally improve as the season goes on...and some A10 teams have nowhere to go but up.....

VCU, Dayton will be tough...Davidson has Gibbs who can carry them in any given game.....and then you have the coaches who own Dan Hurley, like Martelli and even Kellogg at his place, same for Fordham in NY.......a lot of games especially on the road will be close....and what confidence do we have that we will win most of them?

Strictly on talent, we should win 13-14 games, but our coach wastes that advantage....we should run most of them off the court [literally] but we'll play their slowdown game on the road and struggle to win them.....

It's so infuriating it's mind boggling.....

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

RF1 and Rambone and anyone else that might know........................

Question:
How many top 25 Ranked Teams did Jim Baron beat in his URI Coaching Career?
Do you remember the Teams and the Year in which it happened?

For Hurley I believe it is now 3:
Nebraska
Dayton (last year at Dayton)
Cincinnati (this year)

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 7 years ago

From reading this thread, it sounds like most folks are painting pictures of two coaches with similar talent to work with, getting similar results. Lets face the music here, we have a great recruiter and great big picture program guy, who is consistently out coached by the teams with players of their own on a similar level. We're all waiting with baited breath for that last bit to change, but of course, you get to a certain point and a pattern emerges.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

How do define out coached?
Last year s big complaint, often repeated most every game, was his sideline behavior.
Noted at the Saturday game DH was consistently in his box. He even points out the box to the refs during the games just reminding them that he is in it. He was calm throughout the game. Some bad calls and he still kept composure.
He made a quick, decisive questioning of a 3 point air ball that Young caught and put back. On replay refs saw Hurley was right.
The opposing coach was not only out of the.box often but sometimes as much as 3 feet out on the floor when we had the ball in front of their bench.
Last year common theme was DH was costing us fouls with the Refs.
On Saturday I saw about 4 times in the second half where we ran the shot clock down, similar to last year, then struggled to get a shot off in time, if at all. I'm with the group that says we should run more often

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

Ramster is the board's pom pom waver.
So, we should all be happy because Dan stopped
his sideline ranting after four years?
You actually mention last years Dayton team as being ranked.
They weren't when we played them, or after.
Nebraska was a pretender, who was dropped out of the rankings,
never to return.
Cincy is ranked, but not exactly a world beater.
As for the "great recruiter" part, the first two years, yes.
Is anyone that impressed with the last two cycles?
So, keep telling yourself, everything is beautiful,
while most of us see the reality of the on court product.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 7 years ago

Rod, Dayton was still in the coach's poll when we beat them last year. I know, the stupid coach's poll, but that's counting as ranked by media members. I couldn't believe they were still in the coach's poll having just lost a couple games to A10 crap teams.

Taking the ranking discussion out completely, that was a legit win against a NCAA team in a hostile environment on the road with a severely depleted roster.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Love ramster, he's our eternal optimist.......just doesn't want to admit that it's not happening this year or any other year with this coach....

There are more major disappointments to come...the last few years, when I would post this, most on this board would rush to Dan's and the team's defense....not any more...the rose colored glasses have finally come off......

Results matter....Thorr and Dooley meant well when they hired him, and we all thought for a while that finally we've found "the guy" to bring us to the promised land...well DH has promised us a rose garden but you know what we're going to get....and it's pretty prickly......

It's tough to admit that he's not that guy.....he's had plenty to time to improve into a better game coach....and as far as recruiting...he's good at getting guard talent...but bigger players, not so much...thank God for Hassan, or this team wouldn't even be close.......but he's gone after this season, and we have no one else close to his ability on the horizon or so it seems like right now.....

If Dan was the "man" we would know it by now......he's not

And for the record, a couple of wins against ranked teams is great, but we have lost way more to them, and also have lost way more than we've won, against good but not ranked teams.....our win percentage against plus .500 teams is pathetic, and it's not changing.

"Ram Tough" my ass.......tough teams win the close ones, and it's a reflection of the coach as to why we don't....fold like a cheap tent is more like it....opponents lick their chops when the game is close in the final minutes......

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 7 years ago

Bones, you realize that if we win the last 4 games of our OOC schedule we'll be entering A10 play not only on a roll with a crappy SLU road game, but we'd have an expected RPI of 23 and SOS of 47 entering A10 tournament. Right?

We want this team to be as good as it can be in Feb and March. Last week was the low point of the season. We have the very good Cincy win (Top 25 RPI) in our pocket and will hopefully grab one at Houston (top 50 RPI) plus whatever we score in A10 play/tournament.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

ATP, I would love it if we could win the next game....much less the next 4...sure we will beat HC and W&M, they stink......

I also would love it if we could win some close games against good teams...show some balls...makes some plays....see some good coaching decisions in crunch time.....

Even when we do win a close game, it's usually the opponent missing a wide open look or looks at the end.....we almost never end close games on a positive note...it's more than just winning and losing.....it's HOW we do it.......and it's UGLY every time!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Good teams win the close ones....we don't

Good coaches win the close ones....he doesn't

What we've got instead, is a coach who is great in many aspects of the program, but he has a fatal flaw.....

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 7 years ago

i am thoroughly upset that we lost our last 2 games but i still believe in our coach and team

must get on a roll now and win the tough games coming up tho

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:ATP, I would love it if we could win the next game....much less the next 4...sure we will beat HC and W&M, they stink......

I also would love it if we could win some close games against good teams...show some balls...makes some plays....see some good coaching decisions in crunch time.....

Even when we do win a close game, it's usually the opponent missing a wide open look or looks at the end.....we almost never end close games on a positive note...it's more than just winning and losing.....it's HOW we do it.......and it's UGLY every time!

Greatest win since Hurley took over was Cincinnati - in a close game

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

Back to my question,
And I don't know the answer, but how many Nationally Ranked teams did Jim Baron beat?
I am positive Nebraska, Cincinnati and Dayton were ranked. The pregame and post game articles said it.

It's not an end all to measure a coaches performance, just another data point to compare the progress of the program. How many did Jerry D beat? How many did Harrick beat and who?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

Yup, and we need more of them.....needed to follow that win up by winning on the road against 2 very beatable teams....

Winning those would have stamped us as the real deal.....and you know it...and of course we didn't......

rhodysurf · Unread post by **rhodysurf** » 7 years ago

ramster wrote:Back to my question,
And I don't know the answer, but how many Nationally Ranked teams did Jim Baron beat?
I am positive Nebraska, Cincinnati and Dayton were ranked. The pregame and post game articles said it.

It's not an end all to measure a coaches performance, just another data point to compare the progress of the program. How many did Jerry D beat? How many did Harrick beat and who?

He beat zero

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

Found it....................

Baron never beat a Nationally Ranked Team. Of course he did not schedule many, if any, either, instead most often leaning more towards the Cupcake OOC scheduling model. So we went 16 very long years without beating a Nationally Ranked Team

Have now beaten 3 with 2 being in 2016:
#21 Nebraska Home - November 2014
#24 Dayton Away - February 2016
#25 Cincinnati Neutral - November 2016

Nebraska vs. Rhode Island - Game Recap - November 22, 2014 - ESPN
espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recap?gameId=400591101
Nov 22, 2014 - Rhode Island Rams basketball game. ... They continued right through overtime as Rhode Island beat No. 21 Nebraska 66-62 Saturday night for its first win over a ranked opponent since 1998.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 7 years ago

Yeah despite the negative side of my brain here after a tough week, this is a ridiculous title for a thread. It really shouldn't be even posted here. Yes Dan isn't the best coach in the league right now (oh no how terrible that our 7 year, young up and coming coach isn't already better than legendary college coaches like Bob McKillop, Phil Martelli, and Archie Miller already! OMG guys) but it's absolutely absurd to even put the two of these together for a comparison. Comparing Dan to Baron is like comparing an orange to London because there's an "o" in both words.

I get the immediate pain of the PC loss, but holy shit you've lost your god damn minds if you think these two are ANYTHING alike.

Do we need stats? OK hold on I've got stats. I will even include Dan's first 2 years which are 110% Jim Baron's fault for leaving the barest cupboard AND an APR that forced Dan to target different recruits than he would have originally wanted.

Let's start with the obvious record against ranked teams:

Dan Hurley: 3-9 .250 - Minus first 2 years of Baron's handcuffing, he's 3-6 against ranked teams, a .333

Jim Baron: 0-19 .000 - Self explanitory.

Jim Baron had 6 seasons where he didn't even get a ranked team on the schedule. Dan Hurley has given his team a chance to play a ranked team every year he's been here.
How about after the first week in February?

Dan Hurley: 18-22 .450 - Minus the first 2 post-Baron years of 5-12 (.294), he's 13-10 (.565). I don't think anyone could say he didn't get the most out of a young core team to win an A10 game and win an NIT game, or with an injury plagued team to knock off a ranked team on the road that fought til the end. Still has a chance to write something this year.

Jim Baron: 47-65 .419 - This stat doesn't show the MAJOR collapses during years where we could've been NCAA bound. How about 2010 where he missed 3 chances to beat the same ranked Temple team: home, road, and neutral? A senior day loss to an AWFUL UMass team at home? 1 of those wins gets you an NCAA birth that year. Started 12-1 against a soft ooc. Finished 23-9 before the NIT. 9-7 in conference.

Who could forget 09 where we started out 11-4 losing to Duke and Nova. Played 11-5 in conference with a chance to go dancing by just beating a terrible UMass team at home on senior day and win an A-10 game against the NIT bound Duquesne Dukes playing a back to back after we beat them a week before? That was fun.

How about 2008? That was fun. Started 14-1. Got ranked up to #21. Lost to ranked Dayton. Beat shitty Duquesne. Lost to an AWFUL St Louis team. Won some games then lost 8 OF THEIR LAST 10. Blew a 20+ point lead in the NIT by leaving their best player on the bench.

Do I need to go on?

Fuck I get that this week sucked. But you are high on some fucking shit if you are typing anything comparing Dan Hurley to Jim Baron. The fact that I am mentioning them in the same sentence is giving me fucking hives.

You can't ignore everything behind the scenes issues and "worry about the W's" and turn a blind eye to what was going on with the program under Baron. This is college not the pros. Academic issues matter. Issues with the law matter. You don't get to go and make W's if you're not already taking care of that business, or you're a UNC-type power that can sweep it under the rug.

But let's look at it in a vacuum. Say that shit is irrelevant, which it isn't and you're dumb for believing so. What did Baron win here? Ever? Not a god damn thing. Not a single big, meaningful game. Woo hoo, he beat PC a couple of times while still having a losing record against them. I'd gladly a win there for a win in any of those above seasons when it mattered. It sucks losing to a rival, but if you make an NCAA tournament in that same season it certainly eases the sting.

Was our program nationally known for anything other than a hot cup of coffee in the top 25 before collapsing? Was there EVER pre-season write-ups on a national level? If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?

You are high AS FUCK if you think that we'd be better off or the same with Jim Baron. I honestly hate you people with a fire that I can't even explain through words for even entertaining the thought.

Criticizing our young and up-and-coming coach for some tactical and game managing deficiencies is completely warranted and accurate.

Comparing a coach without whom we would be fucking FORDHAM to the coach who led to be that program, who may in-fact be the worst long term hire in college basketball HISTORY is fucking lunacy.

I know people tend to romanticize people when they die or after they're gone...but there was nothing good about Jim Baron with the exception of his oldest son, who was a career 43% 3 point shooter, who had 2 seasons over 45% AND NEVER HAD A SINGLE GOD DAMN PLAY DRAWN UP FOR HIM TO GET OPEN SO HE HAD TO LEARN TO SHOOT FROM FUCKING HALF COURT AND WE STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE TOURNAMENT OR WIN A FUCKING BIG GAME WITH HIM ON OUR ROSTER FUCK.

We should be so god damn lucky that within 3 years of Baron effectively giving our program the death penalty that we're whining about falling short BECAUSE WE DIDN'T MAKE THE NCAAs WHICH WE DIDN'T MAKE FOR OVER A DECADE BECAUSE OF FUCKING BARON. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO CALMLY EVISCERATE YOU IDIOTS TRYING TO MAKE THIS COMPARISON BUT NOW IM YELLING IN MY HEAD BECAUSE I AM REMEMBERING EVERYTHING SO TERRIBLE ABOUT THE 2000'S AND I FUCKING HATE ALL OF YOU FOR BRINGING THIS OUT.

Calm down, everyone, me included. We lost 2 top 75 games on the road. The season goals of A10 titles and NCAA's are still in tact.

Christ, the week sucked, we lost 2 winnable games - one of which was a rivalry, I get it. I live in this space of pain. But holy shit when threads have titles like this you make us all look like fucktards.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

BM, I think we're only bringing JB up as comparison due to our continuing issues in close games.....otherwise there is no comparison, agreed....

The culture here is WAY different than those years.....

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 7 years ago

Love your posts, Blue Man. Hope your hives are better.

Da_Process_Survivor · Unread post by **Da_Process_Survivor** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote:Yeah despite the negative side of my brain here after a tough week, this is a ridiculous title for a thread. It really shouldn't be even posted here. Yes Dan isn't the best coach in the league right now (oh no how terrible that our 7 year, young up and coming coach isn't already better than legendary college coaches like Bob McKillop, Phil Martelli, and Archie Miller already! OMG guys) but it's absolutely absurd to even put the two of these together for a comparison. Comparing Dan to Baron is like comparing an orange to London because there's an "o" in both words.

I get the immediate pain of the PC loss, but holy shit you've lost your god damn minds if you think these two are ANYTHING alike.

Do we need stats? OK hold on I've got stats. I will even include Dan's first 2 years which are 110% Jim Baron's fault for leaving the barest cupboard AND an APR that forced Dan to target different recruits than he would have originally wanted.

Let's start with the obvious record against ranked teams:

Dan Hurley: 3-9 .250 - Minus first 2 years of Baron's handcuffing, he's 3-6 against ranked teams, a .333

Jim Baron: 0-19 .000 - Self explanitory.

Jim Baron had 6 seasons where he didn't even get a ranked team on the schedule. Dan Hurley has given his team a chance to play a ranked team every year he's been here.
How about after the first week in February?

Dan Hurley: 18-22 .450 - Minus the first 2 post-Baron years of 5-12 (.294), he's 13-10 (.565). I don't think anyone could say he didn't get the most out of a young core team to win an A10 game and win an NIT game, or with an injury plagued team to knock off a ranked team on the road that fought til the end. Still has a chance to write something this year.

Jim Baron: 47-65 .419 - This stat doesn't show the MAJOR collapses during years where we could've been NCAA bound. How about 2010 where he missed 3 chances to beat the same ranked Temple team: home, road, and neutral? A senior day loss to an AWFUL UMass team at home? 1 of those wins gets you an NCAA birth that year. Started 12-1 against a soft ooc. Finished 23-9 before the NIT. 9-7 in conference.

Who could forget 09 where we started out 11-4 losing to Duke and Nova. Played 11-5 in conference with a chance to go dancing by just beating a terrible UMass team at home on senior day and win an A-10 game against the NIT bound Duquesne Dukes playing a back to back after we beat them a week before? That was fun.

How about 2008? That was fun. Started 14-1. Got ranked up to #21. Lost to ranked Dayton. Beat shitty Duquesne. Lost to an AWFUL St Louis team. Won some games then lost 8 OF THEIR LAST 10. Blew a 20+ point lead in the NIT by leaving their best player on the bench.

Do I need to go on?

Fuck I get that this week sucked. But you are high on some fucking shit if you are typing anything comparing Dan Hurley to Jim Baron. The fact that I am mentioning them in the same sentence is giving me fucking hives.

You can't ignore everything behind the scenes issues and "worry about the W's" and turn a blind eye to what was going on with the program under Baron. This is college not the pros. Academic issues matter. Issues with the law matter. You don't get to go and make W's if you're not already taking care of that business, or you're a UNC-type power that can sweep it under the rug.

But let's look at it in a vacuum. Say that shit is irrelevant, which it isn't and you're dumb for believing so. What did Baron win here? Ever? Not a god damn thing. Not a single big, meaningful game. Woo hoo, he beat PC a couple of times while still having a losing record against them. I'd gladly a win there for a win in any of those above seasons when it mattered. It sucks losing to a rival, but if you make an NCAA tournament in that same season it certainly eases the sting.

Was our program nationally known for anything other than a hot cup of coffee in the top 25 before collapsing? Was there EVER pre-season write-ups on a national level? If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?

You are high AS FUCK if you think that we'd be better off or the same with Jim Baron. I honestly hate you people with a fire that I can't even explain through words for even entertaining the thought.

Criticizing our young and up-and-coming coach for some tactical and game managing deficiencies is completely warranted and accurate.

Comparing a coach without whom we would be fucking FORDHAM to the coach who led to be that program, who may in-fact be the worst long term hire in college basketball HISTORY is fucking lunacy.

I know people tend to romanticize people when they die or after they're gone...but there was nothing good about Jim Baron with the exception of his oldest son, who was a career 43% 3 point shooter, who had 2 seasons over 45% AND NEVER HAD A SINGLE GOD DAMN PLAY DRAWN UP FOR HIM TO GET OPEN SO HE HAD TO LEARN TO SHOOT FROM FUCKING HALF COURT AND WE STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE TOURNAMENT OR WIN A FUCKING BIG GAME WITH HIM ON OUR ROSTER FUCK.

We should be so god damn lucky that within 3 years of Baron effectively giving our program the death penalty that we're whining about falling short BECAUSE WE DIDN'T MAKE THE NCAAs WHICH WE DIDN'T MAKE FOR OVER A DECADE BECAUSE OF FUCKING BARON. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO CALMLY EVISCERATE YOU IDIOTS TRYING TO MAKE THIS COMPARISON BUT NOW IM YELLING IN MY HEAD BECAUSE I AM REMEMBERING EVERYTHING SO TERRIBLE ABOUT THE 2000'S AND I FUCKING HATE ALL OF YOU FOR BRINGING THIS OUT.

Calm down, everyone, me included. We lost 2 top 75 games on the road. The season goals of A10 titles and NCAA's are still in tact.

Christ, the week sucked, we lost 2 winnable games - one of which was a rivalry, I get it. I live in this space of pain. But holy shit when threads have titles like this you make us all look like fucktards.

from page 1, Hurley's records vs RPI

Totals: top 50: 3-35 (2-29 over the last 3 seasons)
Top 100: 13-46 (22%)
151 +: 41-12

plain and simple, you are what your record says you are. He can beat up on cupcakes and cant get them over the hump against good teams. He is also racking up 'close but no cigar games' already.

2013-14

PC 50-49
Detroit 70-68
SLU 59-58
St Joes 61-57
St Joes 57-54
UMass 73-68, 70-67, 65-61

2014-15:

GTech 64-61
VCU 65-60
UMass 60-56
St Joes 65-64
Davidson 60-59
Dayton 56-52

2015-16:

Valpo 58-55
Nebraska 70-67
PC 74-72
Dayton 68-66
UMass 61-56 OT
Fordham 64-61
UMass 67-62

2016-17:

Valpo 65-62
PC 63-60

And thats just the highlights...

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

The list of close wins isn't very long...

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

Well, how about comparing him to two coaches with zero experience
when URI made them head coach,
who took us to NCAAs in less time than Hurley has been here?
Ernie Calverley and Al Skinner.
Ernie did it in his 3rd year, Al did it in his 4th year.
Stop the "He's so inexperienced" crapola, please.
Comparing him to CFL is setting the bar very low.
Why not compare him to Jerry D while we're at it?

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 7 years ago

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
Blue Man wrote:Yeah despite the negative side of my brain here after a tough week, this is a ridiculous title for a thread. It really shouldn't be even posted here. Yes Dan isn't the best coach in the league right now (oh no how terrible that our 7 year, young up and coming coach isn't already better than legendary college coaches like Bob McKillop, Phil Martelli, and Archie Miller already! OMG guys) but it's absolutely absurd to even put the two of these together for a comparison. Comparing Dan to Baron is like comparing an orange to London because there's an "o" in both words.

I get the immediate pain of the PC loss, but holy shit you've lost your god damn minds if you think these two are ANYTHING alike.

Do we need stats? OK hold on I've got stats. I will even include Dan's first 2 years which are 110% Jim Baron's fault for leaving the barest cupboard AND an APR that forced Dan to target different recruits than he would have originally wanted.

Let's start with the obvious record against ranked teams:

Dan Hurley: 3-9 .250 - Minus first 2 years of Baron's handcuffing, he's 3-6 against ranked teams, a .333

Jim Baron: 0-19 .000 - Self explanitory.

Jim Baron had 6 seasons where he didn't even get a ranked team on the schedule. Dan Hurley has given his team a chance to play a ranked team every year he's been here.
How about after the first week in February?

Dan Hurley: 18-22 .450 - Minus the first 2 post-Baron years of 5-12 (.294), he's 13-10 (.565). I don't think anyone could say he didn't get the most out of a young core team to win an A10 game and win an NIT game, or with an injury plagued team to knock off a ranked team on the road that fought til the end. Still has a chance to write something this year.

Jim Baron: 47-65 .419 - This stat doesn't show the MAJOR collapses during years where we could've been NCAA bound. How about 2010 where he missed 3 chances to beat the same ranked Temple team: home, road, and neutral? A senior day loss to an AWFUL UMass team at home? 1 of those wins gets you an NCAA birth that year. Started 12-1 against a soft ooc. Finished 23-9 before the NIT. 9-7 in conference.

Who could forget 09 where we started out 11-4 losing to Duke and Nova. Played 11-5 in conference with a chance to go dancing by just beating a terrible UMass team at home on senior day and win an A-10 game against the NIT bound Duquesne Dukes playing a back to back after we beat them a week before? That was fun.

How about 2008? That was fun. Started 14-1. Got ranked up to #21. Lost to ranked Dayton. Beat shitty Duquesne. Lost to an AWFUL St Louis team. Won some games then lost 8 OF THEIR LAST 10. Blew a 20+ point lead in the NIT by leaving their best player on the bench.

Do I need to go on?

Fuck I get that this week sucked. But you are high on some fucking shit if you are typing anything comparing Dan Hurley to Jim Baron. The fact that I am mentioning them in the same sentence is giving me fucking hives.

You can't ignore everything behind the scenes issues and "worry about the W's" and turn a blind eye to what was going on with the program under Baron. This is college not the pros. Academic issues matter. Issues with the law matter. You don't get to go and make W's if you're not already taking care of that business, or you're a UNC-type power that can sweep it under the rug.

But let's look at it in a vacuum. Say that shit is irrelevant, which it isn't and you're dumb for believing so. What did Baron win here? Ever? Not a god damn thing. Not a single big, meaningful game. Woo hoo, he beat PC a couple of times while still having a losing record against them. I'd gladly a win there for a win in any of those above seasons when it mattered. It sucks losing to a rival, but if you make an NCAA tournament in that same season it certainly eases the sting.

Was our program nationally known for anything other than a hot cup of coffee in the top 25 before collapsing? Was there EVER pre-season write-ups on a national level? If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?

You are high AS FUCK if you think that we'd be better off or the same with Jim Baron. I honestly hate you people with a fire that I can't even explain through words for even entertaining the thought.

Criticizing our young and up-and-coming coach for some tactical and game managing deficiencies is completely warranted and accurate.

Comparing a coach without whom we would be fucking FORDHAM to the coach who led to be that program, who may in-fact be the worst long term hire in college basketball HISTORY is fucking lunacy.

I know people tend to romanticize people when they die or after they're gone...but there was nothing good about Jim Baron with the exception of his oldest son, who was a career 43% 3 point shooter, who had 2 seasons over 45% AND NEVER HAD A SINGLE GOD DAMN PLAY DRAWN UP FOR HIM TO GET OPEN SO HE HAD TO LEARN TO SHOOT FROM FUCKING HALF COURT AND WE STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE TOURNAMENT OR WIN A FUCKING BIG GAME WITH HIM ON OUR ROSTER FUCK.

We should be so god damn lucky that within 3 years of Baron effectively giving our program the death penalty that we're whining about falling short BECAUSE WE DIDN'T MAKE THE NCAAs WHICH WE DIDN'T MAKE FOR OVER A DECADE BECAUSE OF FUCKING BARON. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO CALMLY EVISCERATE YOU IDIOTS TRYING TO MAKE THIS COMPARISON BUT NOW IM YELLING IN MY HEAD BECAUSE I AM REMEMBERING EVERYTHING SO TERRIBLE ABOUT THE 2000'S AND I FUCKING HATE ALL OF YOU FOR BRINGING THIS OUT.

Calm down, everyone, me included. We lost 2 top 75 games on the road. The season goals of A10 titles and NCAA's are still in tact.

Christ, the week sucked, we lost 2 winnable games - one of which was a rivalry, I get it. I live in this space of pain. But holy shit when threads have titles like this you make us all look like fucktards.

from page 1, Hurley's records vs RPI

Totals: top 50: 3-35 (2-29 over the last 3 seasons)
Top 100: 13-46 (22%)
151 +: 41-12

plain and simple, you are what your record says you are. He can beat up on cupcakes and cant get them over the hump against good teams. He is also racking up 'close but no cigar games' already.

2013-14

PC 50-49
Detroit 70-68
SLU 59-58
St Joes 61-57
St Joes 57-54
UMass 73-68, 70-67, 65-61

2014-15:

GTech 64-61
VCU 65-60
UMass 60-56
St Joes 65-64
Davidson 60-59
Dayton 56-52

2015-16:

Valpo 58-55
Nebraska 70-67
PC 74-72
Dayton 68-66
UMass 61-56 OT
Fordham 64-61
UMass 67-62

2016-17:

Valpo 65-62
PC 63-60

And thats just the highlights...

While doing breathing exercises to calm myself down and be able to work and respond to bullshit;

I honestly don't know where to begin. Your screen name literally is "da process survivor". You seem newer to the board so I'm not sure if you actually lived through the Baron years or are just coming into this now.

Yes. Dan Hurley lost close games like Jim Baron did. A similar comparison would be how a car is like a submarine because they both hold people inside.

The key difference being "how many of those games were we the team that "should have" won? Were we home? Did we have superior talent? Were we expected to win?

The above context is a key difference between maximizing the potential of your collective group (more often than not Dan) or collapsing, choking, and pissing down your leg (Baron).

Considering I've every one of the games that you could bring up in Kingston, in the A10, and a significant amount on the road - I'll spoil it for you: those games under those coaches are NOTHING alike. Baron had SUPERIOR teams that CHOKED in home and neutral environments. Dan Hurley finally has his team that has the talent to judge him on his coaching.

What has Dan done so far this year with that team? Well he did get the biggest win in this program in almost 20 years. The other 2 that were close he also did with less talent than he has now in the past few seasons. I would actually argue that the Cinci win was 100% his coaching that won it. No PG in the 2nd half. Down 8. He OUTCOACHED Mick Cronin that game.

Now do we have 2 losses that hurt? Ish. They're missed opportunities. 2 early season road losses, one of which will be top 50. The pain is more emotional than actual. Are there concerns about some things with the team? Yes. Are they things that could be corrected in the 22 games that we still have to play? Yes. Has Dan already established that his teams no matter who they are made up of can win games in February and March? Yes.

Let me know when we start losing February and March home to teams with losing records when we're a bubble team and I'll start listening to you.

I feel like somehow lost in this comparison is the fact that Dan is literally digging out of a mess DIRECTLY CAUSED by Jim Baron.

Jim Baron, though coming off a losing 2 year stint; inherited talent and a state-of-the-art facility. He also inherited a program that was only 2 years removed from being a nationally recognized, 3x NCAA appearing, A10 championship winning, elite 8 appearing, top of the conference level program. This program also had 3 NBA draft picks, 2 who were playing, 1 who was a STUD.

How he was never able to equate any of those factors into recruiting gains or actual success I will never know.

Jim Baron birthed the greatest shooter we will ever see in a Rams uniform. He didn't have to recruit him. The fact that we couldn't win close games with a kid who shot over 90% from the free throw line and 45% from three with range that extended to HALF FUCKING COURT is much more damning than a team with big expectations and a lot of question marks losing 2 close games on the road to good teams early in the season.

This is honestly the dumbest debate that's ever popped up on this board. Bar none.

Have I agreed with Dan's in-game coaching in those 2 losses? Nope. There's a lot of room for improvement there. Big shock. Dan isn't the best coach in the conference or the country yet. Shit. I guess he never will be after 6 and a half years. I guess we just ignore the fact that both programs were complete rebuilding jobs, and ours was the equivalent to raising the titanic.

Since the question that I posed in the last post is an easy answer: If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?

How about answering this one? Who besides Dan Hurley would you have hired, and would they have had us in the NCAA's in year 4?

You may be a smart person in life but in basketball you are dumb. Sorry.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

If you don't think the shit show CFL inherited from Jerry D was
a deep hole, there's no sense furthering any conversation.
I just gave you two of OUR coaches with zero experience
when hired who took us to NCAAs in 3 and 4 years into their tenure.
Crickets.
Oh, I know, it's ancient history, so nothing can be learned from it.
We don't know who URI could have hired after CFL, because they never
even interviewed anyone else!

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote: Was our program nationally known for anything other than a hot cup of coffee in the top 25 before collapsing? Was there EVER pre-season write-ups on a national level? If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?

.

Lol. No.

He lost 2 out of 3 NEC tournament games at Wager in two years (in which he went 9-9 and 15-3 in conference). He's 1-3 at URI. Guy loses big games. Pretty clear, right? But, he's winning the big games that Baron lost? He's going to beat Temple in the 2010 A10 tournament. Get outta here. And, can we stop talking about Nebraska? Finished #121 in kenpom. Fraud pre-season ranking. Dayton finished #59. That's the type of good road win that should have happened multiple times not being held as this super win. Let's see how Cincy finishes, too. He beats teams that have less talent. That's good if you are Duke and out talent everyone. Not if you are trying to make the dance. Have to win the PCs, Davidsons, VCUs, Gtechs, etc. Would I rather have him than Baron? Sure. But, it would be nice to see a tournament game this century, right?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

GBG, I thought you were so off base a few years ago.
You weren't. You just saw what we who were in the ether,
failed to see.
Now, for some of us, the ether has worn off, and we see
the picture more realistically.
You were right all along.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

I knew he was too....a lot of people gave him a ton of flak for appearing only after losses...but it's a case of "I told you so".......

Dan started losing close games here on day one....albeit with less talent then....and it hasn't stopped......and shows no sign of stopping.....

The more talent we have [and how much we really DO have is debatable] the same old song gets sung over and over......

When the tough get going, we're nowhere to be found......Dan isn't getting a pass anymore, at least from me.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 7 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:GBG, I thought you were so off base a few years ago.
You weren't. You just saw what we who were in the ether,
failed to see.
Now, for some of us, the ether has worn off, and we see
the picture more realistically.
You were right all along.

Would rather have been wrong. The book isn't written, though, right? I said back then that he needed an old hand on the bench. His biggest error was creating this silo of guys that maybe (guessing, here) won't tell him what he doesn't want to here. Al Skinner (not a perfect coach) went and sat on a bench as an assistant at Bryant to old buddy Tim O'Shea. He's now at Freaking Kennesaw State. You think that would have been a great call to make? "Hey, coach, did you like it at URI? Want to help me out a bit?" Go check out Al's offenses at BC? Seriously, you would be shocked at how good/efficient they were. Since Troy Bell, he always had an NBA guy or two on the roster but were they really THAT more talented than this roster? The best part of Al is that he lets his guys work through mistakes. Doesn't micromanage. Really, maybe Al would never say yes but there was someone older/wiser/offensive minded that could have added something to the mix. Not a bunch of (seems from the outside other than Preston) a bunch of yes men.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 7 years ago

Dear God. I can't further this argument.

Why is everything an extreme on this board? Hurley is literally either John Wooden or Jim Baron and there's no in-between.

Christ it's like the election all over again (this is not an invitation to turn this into politics).

There is an area that exists between 2 extremes. It's called reality. I would cordially like to invite 75% of this board to join me.

Dan is a young coach. He is learning. He has improved in certain areas. Others he has not. I still think he can.

One thing he sure as fuck is not is Jim Baron. That is not up for debate and if you truly believe that, there are not enough words in the english language (there are over 200,000) to describe how dumb of a basketball fan you are.

Our team is good. They are not perfect. They are not bad. They fell short at the end of 2 winnable games against good teams. They also beat a GREAT team in case that has already been forgotten. The 2 losses at the end this week were part coaching and part execution. That needs to improve. They have missed 2 opportunities this week. There are 13 more weeks full of opportunities still to come.

They have played a tougher OOC than they will play in conference. This should prepare them for the road ahead.

This season is young. We already have a marquee win. We have no bad losses. We missed opportunities to have a bulletproof resume. We will have more chances (2 this week, 5 in conference, and an A10 tournament) to get it right. There are 22 games left.

If you are willing to call the season in December go right ahead. Seems sensible. I usually throw food away at the supermarket because I knew the dinner I was going to cook 3 days from now was going to suck anyway.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 7 years ago

We all will let the season play out....we all have our opinions on which way it will go......

I think we know what's going to happen very soon......one way or the other, for those on either side of the fence.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote:Dear God. I can't further this argument.

Why is everything an extreme on this board? Hurley is literally either John Wooden or Jim Baron and there's no in-between.

Christ it's like the election all over again (this is not an invitation to turn this into politics).

There is an area that exists between 2 extremes. It's called reality. I would cordially like to invite 75% of this board to join me.

Dan is a young coach. He is learning. He has improved in certain areas. Others he has not. I still think he can.

One thing he sure as fuck is not is Jim Baron. That is not up for debate and if you truly believe that, there are not enough words in the english language (there are over 200,000) to describe how dumb of a basketball fan you are.

.

You talk of not going to exrtemes after saying that Dan is going to three dances with 2007-10 squads. Here are two of the 200,000. Cognitive dissonance.

He is young (ish) still. In fact, I said that was a big deal and in game stuff/offensive design and other parts of the game was a learning curve. That he certainly could get better. I just wasn't assuming so because he was a Hurley or he won at St. Bs where he had better players almost every gaem. It hasn't gotten better in that time so he is either unwilling or unable. You choose.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 7 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:
Blue Man wrote:Dear God. I can't further this argument.

Why is everything an extreme on this board? Hurley is literally either John Wooden or Jim Baron and there's no in-between.

Christ it's like the election all over again (this is not an invitation to turn this into politics).

There is an area that exists between 2 extremes. It's called reality. I would cordially like to invite 75% of this board to join me.

Dan is a young coach. He is learning. He has improved in certain areas. Others he has not. I still think he can.

One thing he sure as fuck is not is Jim Baron. That is not up for debate and if you truly believe that, there are not enough words in the english language (there are over 200,000) to describe how dumb of a basketball fan you are.

.
You talk of not going to exrtemes after saying that Dan is going to three dances with 2007-10 squads. Here are two of the 200,000. Cognitive dissonance.

He is young (ish) still. In fact, I said that was a big deal and in game stuff/offensive design and other parts of the game was a learning curve. That he certainly could get better. I just wasn't assuming so because he was a Hurley or he won at St. Bs where he had better players almost every gaem. It hasn't gotten better in that time so he is either unwilling or unable. You choose.

GBG, great to have you back. Surprised it took 3 losses to get you on the board.

Why don't you just stick with the approach and maybe we'll go with broad generalized statements of "we suck, we'll never win" at the end of the season?

josephski · Unread post by **josephski** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote: Dan is a young coach. He is learning. He has improved in certain areas. Others he has not. I still think he can.

What areas has he improved in? Arguing with the refs?

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought most people here were upset with Hurley because it seems like he hasn't improved in anything since he got here. End of game situations, in game adjustments and the offense he runs have always been the biggest issues in my opinion. Fouling has also been an issue but I think that goes hand in hand with his style of defense so I can live with that. Lack of big men/depth in general is another issue but again I can live with that because we do have a very good starting 5.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 7 years ago

Blue Man wrote:
GBG, great to have you back. Surprised it took 3 losses to get you on the board.

Why don't you just stick with the approach and maybe we'll go with broad generalized statements of "we suck, we'll never win" at the end of the season?

Give me a big win and I'll be there. Been saying that for, well, 4+ years now, too. Really, I had talked myself into lurking status over the summer. Checking in from time to time. Valpo on the road isn't that bad of a loss. Duke...OK. But, this one stings. PC is the worst. Providence is only getting better (again). No seniors. Two good recruits. Some frosh who will end up good. Puke. And we lose a close one. On the worst stinking shot. Do you know how much time was left when he took the shot? Four seconds. How does a kid in the program four years or a coach have that be the shot? If you can stomach it, watch the last 7.3 seconds. Watch the play that was run. Just look at it. You know why I ask...because there was no play. They ran some action in the full court then four guys watching EC. God bless EC, it's not his fault. His BEST option was a pass back to a trailing Hassan who would have tossed up a 25 footer with one second left. While you are at it...take a look at what the Terrell was doing on the play. He literally turned and ran and stood (and watched). I understand...they were down three. PC Is going to guard the line but that's terrible. Why didn't DH call a timeout and chat about it? No timeouts left. Sorry. Had to micromanage every out of bounds on the sideline. Gross.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 7 years ago

I can't wait any longer--it was much more enjoyable reading this board when Rod and GBG were hibernating. Especially my old friend Rod.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 7 years ago

I honestly come to this board to read Rod's opinion and a few others. I prefer their take on things than the blowjo.

[EDIT] I also come here to complain. *****

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 7 years ago

Eli slithers out of the slime to take his bitch slaps.
How's Eli, the real one? He got bitch slapped by the Steelers.
Loved it.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 7 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Ramster is the board's pom pom waver.
So, we should all be happy because Dan stopped
his sideline ranting after four years?
You actually mention last years Dayton team as being ranked.
They weren't when we played them, or after.
Nebraska was a pretender, who was dropped out of the rankings,
never to return.
Cincy is ranked, but not exactly a world beater.
As for the "great recruiter" part, the first two years, yes.
Is anyone that impressed with the last two cycles?
So, keep telling yourself, everything is beautiful,
while most of us see the reality of the on court product.

This Jim Baron 2.0 thread was started saying Hurley is much the same as Baron. That is what I am addressing - how I see Hurley as not close to comparable to Baron.

Dan changing the side-lane behavior is just an example of how he changed something. It was also a constant complaint on these boards last season saying it was costing us calls and games. Not saying all should be happy about it. Just that I keep hearing he will never change any of his behavior from other posters.

Dayton was ranked #22 in ESPN Coaches Poll. We beat them by 9 points on their home court with Garrett in his mask. Berry had 15 points in 13 minutes on 7-7 shooting.
Dayton was also ranked 19/17 when we played them 2 weeks earlier when we lost at home 68-66.

Simply making the point that Hurley has 3 Top 25 wins. Baron went 0-19 and URI had not beaten a Top 25 team in this century. 3 Top 25 wins is a start, but only a start, but it is light years ahead of the 16 year dry spell we experienced.

I will not tell myself everything is beautiful until we get the NCAA bid, and even then there will be room for improvement.

Mongo · Unread post by **Mongo** » 7 years ago

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:
It's the Tyson quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"

This is the most misquoted quote. He actually said, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit."

Sorry to nitpick, but I'm a huge Tyson fan and I get sick when I'm at corporate Ra Ra meetings and have these uptight dudes use this quote incorrectly.

Again sorry, couldn't hold my tougne.

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