People took credit for beating us too without Has, so your're right. As long as the committee stays consistent on the matter with all teams.URI2006_Andy wrote:I agree Belmont at home without their best player is a stretch but we need statements like the ones Rothstein makes to offset some of the garbage that's spewed out in favor of the so called power conference schools who get credit for losing. Plus I don't think the committee will be factoring in that other bubble teams may have got wins versus a team missing players. Off the top of my head, PC beat X when X's roster was decimated and Houston beat us without Martin. I'm sure there are more instances.
2016-17 Bracketology
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I wonder how much of this is the fact that CBSSports shows a lot of A-10 games, so they want to pump up the conference, so they in turn try to make the case that this league deserves 3 teams in the tournament.hrstrat57 wrote:It really shocks me how much the TV talking heads still love Rhody. Dan played right into it with CBSSports post game interview.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
So Georgia Tech and Syracuse have RPI's in the 80's.
In the event they go into selection Sunday with RPI's in the 80's will they get in?
I'm pretty sure no one with an RPI in the 80's has ever been selected. Maybe not even close.
I feel like they maybe can be an exception because the ACC is so strong this year.
They also play each other in the last game of the regular season.
Also, Clemson is 14-13 4-11
Screw them they should be further down than us since they've lost about half their games.
In the event they go into selection Sunday with RPI's in the 80's will they get in?
I'm pretty sure no one with an RPI in the 80's has ever been selected. Maybe not even close.
I feel like they maybe can be an exception because the ACC is so strong this year.
They also play each other in the last game of the regular season.
Also, Clemson is 14-13 4-11
Screw them they should be further down than us since they've lost about half their games.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Embarrassing for the committee and tournament in general if they had Clemson in front of URI, who has an RPI of 47.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
What does the RPI matter?Rhodymob05 wrote:Embarrassing for the committee and tournament in general if they had Clemson in front of URI, who has an RPI of 47.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
It matters when Clemson is gaming the system. Their SOS is propped up by the ACC, aka games they are LOSING to a 4-11 tune. So they get credit for losing to good teams and beating no one? There's no medals for trying.rjsuperfly66 wrote:What does the RPI matter?Rhodymob05 wrote:Embarrassing for the committee and tournament in general if they had Clemson in front of URI, who has an RPI of 47.
URI...........Clemson
47 rpi..........61 rpi
59 sos..........17 sos
24 ooc sos.....96 ooc sos
Clemson is quite literally riding the coattails of their conference.
A team that is below 500 in their conference is not a tournament team...period. Let alone getting destroyed in conference. 4-11 is not tourney worthy, ever
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Here's Jay Bilas's take on Rhody:
58. Rhode Island Rams
The Rams have a great early-season win against Cincinnati, but there are no other top-50-caliber wins, which the committee seems to be mindful of. Rhody is good and capable of playing with anyone, but it might take an Atlantic 10 tournament crown to make the NCAA tournament field.
58. Rhode Island Rams
The Rams have a great early-season win against Cincinnati, but there are no other top-50-caliber wins, which the committee seems to be mindful of. Rhody is good and capable of playing with anyone, but it might take an Atlantic 10 tournament crown to make the NCAA tournament field.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
While i do not think we are worthy of at large at this time Clemson being considered is an absolute joke:
their 4 conference wins are wake twice, pitt, and GT....that is not very impressive with a soft out of conference schedule, clemson really should not be even close to being on the bubble
their 4 conference wins are wake twice, pitt, and GT....that is not very impressive with a soft out of conference schedule, clemson really should not be even close to being on the bubble
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Makes sense to me.Da_Process_Survivor wrote:It matters when Clemson is gaming the system. Their SOS is propped up by the ACC, aka games they are LOSING to a 4-11 tune. So they get credit for losing to good teams and beating no one? There's no medals for trying.rjsuperfly66 wrote:What does the RPI matter?Rhodymob05 wrote:Embarrassing for the committee and tournament in general if they had Clemson in front of URI, who has an RPI of 47.
URI...........Clemson
47 rpi..........61 rpi
59 sos..........17 sos
24 ooc sos.....96 ooc sos
Clemson is quite literally riding the coattails of their conference.
A team that is below 500 in their conference is not a tournament team...period. Let alone getting destroyed in conference. 4-11 is not tourney worthy, ever
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I agree with you, but URI's RPI isn't also gaming the system? It's a team gaming the system slightly better than another, which is why I could care less what one's RPI is versus the other.
Last edited by rjsuperfly66 7 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
RPI.........."The basic formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP)."
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
RPI should be the only criteria. Top X number of teams that did not earn an autobid should get in. The committee should be retired.
If you prefer a different metric to RPI, fine. Use KenPom or whatever. But everyone should be judged on the same objective criteria and since there are always going to be unbalanced schedules with 350 teams, find the best way to level it out and then go with that with zero exceptions.
If you prefer a different metric to RPI, fine. Use KenPom or whatever. But everyone should be judged on the same objective criteria and since there are always going to be unbalanced schedules with 350 teams, find the best way to level it out and then go with that with zero exceptions.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I think most would agree with you, but the problem is everyone knows the RPI is outdated so it's used less and less, but they don't know how to create a new system, so until that point a selection is open for interpretation. KenPom has already come out and said that if his formula were to be a part of the selection process, it would have to be altered since it's currently set up as a predictive/strength metric and not meant to seed teams for the tournament.TruePoint wrote:RPI should be the only criteria. Top X number of teams that did not earn an autobid should get in. The committee should be retired.
If you prefer a different metric to RPI, fine. Use KenPom or whatever. But everyone should be judged on the same objective criteria and since there are always going to be unbalanced schedules with 350 teams, find the best way to level it out and then go with that with zero exceptions.
Last edited by rjsuperfly66 7 years ago, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Like this idea but TV won't allow it because it would take the drama, and viewership, away from Selection Sunday.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
The problem is that every system so far can be gamed, including KenPom. If you come out and say KenPom is the most important, all of the sudden the game will change. Thats the one thing that a subjective committee has going for it, it leaves teams guessing about what matters most and they (usually) are left just to play the games to win as they should.
Theres also no way to measure injury impacts and such well yet. For example, PCs RPI and KenPom would benefit the same from beating Xavier at full strength vs when they didnt have Bluett and Sumner (Ignoring which court)
Theres also no way to measure injury impacts and such well yet. For example, PCs RPI and KenPom would benefit the same from beating Xavier at full strength vs when they didnt have Bluett and Sumner (Ignoring which court)
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Well, I think it would depend how much information the committee gave out ... For instance, the model many seem to want in basketball, is very much the same model that football got rid of. People seem to want a BCS like system that combines a bunch of inputs and gives one output. And that could work, if the system updates say every Sunday at 6 PM, and the new numbers are given out one time per week, just like the old BCS system. But in it's current form, a BCS-like system would be a complete failure until all of the predictive measures stop working as predictors, or offer a version that does. Because think about it, in KenPom, Wake is 31. In Sagarin, a 38. In BPI, a 34. So KenPom, 8 seed. BPI, 9 seed. Sagarin, 10 seed. Real-life? Struggling to be in the First Four Out. It doesn't work. Or Clemson ... In BPI, a 37. In KenPom, a 37. In Sagarin, a 40. In reality? 14-13, 4-11 in conference.Iggy1979 wrote:Like this idea but TV won't allow it because it would take the drama, and viewership, away from Selection Sunday.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I think the biggest problem with the BCS was the top teams didn't always get to battle it out. If there's two undefeated BCS teams it worked great. 3 undefeated teams or some combination of more than 2 undefeated and one loss teams and you were screwed. I don't think people would have hated the BCS nearly as much if there was a four or eight team playoff taking the teams the computer spit out.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
You could also not reveal the exact formula that the proprietary system uses if you're worried about the system being gamed. Obviously opting for secrecy over transparency would open you up to a whole other series of accusations and criticisms, but at some point you have to just pick the thing the most people agree is the fairest and best, and prepare to live with inevitable criticism.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I agree to an extent, but I also believe whether the line was 2, 22, or 102, there will always be a team 103, 104, or 105 who feels they got screwed. Now teams 34-38 won't draw the same levels of public criticism, but it won't necessarily mean it works. Imagine if all these metrics determined Clemson and Wake and Syracuse are borderline locks? People would be livid.RhowdyRam02 wrote:I think the biggest problem with the BCS was the top teams didn't always get to battle it out. If there's two undefeated BCS teams it worked great. 3 undefeated teams or some combination of more than 2 undefeated and one loss teams and you were screwed. I don't think people would have hated the BCS nearly as much if there was a four or eight team playoff taking the teams the computer spit out.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
That has a whole new host of issues then because whats to stop the committee from changing the params to fit something different every year or even right on selection Sunday. Actually thats the same issue that exists now.TruePoint wrote:You could also not reveal the exact formula that the proprietary system uses if you're worried about the system being gamed. Obviously opting for secrecy over transparency would open you up to a whole other series of accusations and criticisms, but at some point you have to just pick the thing the most people agree is the fairest and best, and prepare to live with inevitable criticism.
I'm pro computer models btw, I just think that currently none of the systems in place are actually good enough to rely on.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Another Dookie -- third base, triple etc. He thinks all the at-large bids should go to cartel members.rodfromcranston wrote:Here's Jay Bilas's take on Rhody:
58. Rhode Island Rams
The Rams have a great early-season win against Cincinnati, but there are no other top-50-caliber wins, which the committee seems to be mindful of. Rhody is good and capable of playing with anyone, but it might take an Atlantic 10 tournament crown to make the NCAA tournament field.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
It is very subjective when it comes down to it.
They choose to emphasis a metric or statistic when it confirms an eye test.
URI has a great shot to play themselves into the tournament right now.
Even saying "Oh no! They can't make it unless they show up in the A10 final!"
Well if we win out the regular season or go 2-1 from here, that would mean a game against a team we likely beat or Richmond, then a run at VCU likely or Dayton in the semi.
Its not Mt. Everest.
They choose to emphasis a metric or statistic when it confirms an eye test.
URI has a great shot to play themselves into the tournament right now.
Even saying "Oh no! They can't make it unless they show up in the A10 final!"
Well if we win out the regular season or go 2-1 from here, that would mean a game against a team we likely beat or Richmond, then a run at VCU likely or Dayton in the semi.
Its not Mt. Everest.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Yeah it's really not super impossible.Seawrightspostgame wrote:It is very subjective when it comes down to it.
They choose to emphasis a metric or statistic when it confirms an eye test.
URI has a great shot to play themselves into the tournament right now.
Even saying "Oh no! They can't make it unless they show up in the A10 final!"
Well if we win out the regular season or go 2-1 from here, that would mean a game against a team we likely beat or Richmond, then a run at VCU likely or Dayton in the semi.
Its not Mt. Everest.
Just beat three teams that we are superior to and then beat VCU and Dayton. Or VCU twice.
If we can't beat VCU Saturday, which is very unlikely if you look at history... I feel like we will really have a good shot at reaching our goal.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Syracuse. Is. A. Lock.rjsuperfly66 wrote:I agree to an extent, but I also believe whether the line was 2, 22, or 102, there will always be a team 103, 104, or 105 who feels they got screwed. Now teams 34-38 won't draw the same levels of public criticism, but it won't necessarily mean it works. Imagine if all these metrics determined Clemson and Wake and Syracuse are borderline locks? People would be livid.RhowdyRam02 wrote:I think the biggest problem with the BCS was the top teams didn't always get to battle it out. If there's two undefeated BCS teams it worked great. 3 undefeated teams or some combination of more than 2 undefeated and one loss teams and you were screwed. I don't think people would have hated the BCS nearly as much if there was a four or eight team playoff taking the teams the computer spit out.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Yea VCU game presents a ton of challenges. Just deliver. Biggest home game this year now that Dayton was an L.PeterRamTime wrote:Yeah it's really not super impossible.Seawrightspostgame wrote:It is very subjective when it comes down to it.
They choose to emphasis a metric or statistic when it confirms an eye test.
URI has a great shot to play themselves into the tournament right now.
Even saying "Oh no! They can't make it unless they show up in the A10 final!"
Well if we win out the regular season or go 2-1 from here, that would mean a game against a team we likely beat or Richmond, then a run at VCU likely or Dayton in the semi.
Its not Mt. Everest.
Just beat three teams that we are superior to and then beat VCU and Dayton. Or VCU twice.
If we can't beat VCU Saturday, which is very unlikely if you look at history... I feel like we will really have a good shot at reaching our goal.
I might be able to drag my wife in there.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Syracuse just punched their ticket pretty much with a three point bank shot to beat Duke at the buzzer.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
If Bill Koch says URI still has NCAA life, then you know URI still has life. Unless he is just tweeting that to entice 35 more people into the stands.
Cuse being in hurts our chances though. Really need all the bubbles to burst here.
Cuse being in hurts our chances though. Really need all the bubbles to burst here.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
That 31? is it for Wake? The post player. That guy is a master of the post.
Wow. He scores a lot of points down there basically against anyone.
Wow. He scores a lot of points down there basically against anyone.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
not all bad news, tenn lost vs vandy, TCU blown out by kansas(not gonna hurt them but they dont come up with cuse type win)...
buuuuut PC is up 8 early gross
buuuuut PC is up 8 early gross
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I agree Clemson being mentioned is a joke 4-11 conf
Pitt was being mentioned at 4-10 ??
Pitt was being mentioned at 4-10 ??
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
'Cuse being in is totally unrelated to Rhody's chances...think about it...before tonight...winning record in the best conference in the country...wins over FSU, VA, two teams in the Top 10 (3 now).... For compare sake, Rhody beat Cincy, and then we're talking about Belmont as a good win?
I want Rhody in as much as anyone, but the Orange has no impact on their position....NONE.
I want Rhody in as much as anyone, but the Orange has no impact on their position....NONE.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
We can't really worry about all this bubble stuff
Win all the way to the a10 finals and it should be good enough
In that scenario we then root for all the locks to win their conf tourney
Win all the way to the a10 finals and it should be good enough
In that scenario we then root for all the locks to win their conf tourney
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Yea Reef I am game-to-game on Rhody.
But NYG there is obviously a reason CBS sports has Syracuse first 4 out right now and ESPN has nearly the whole ACC in the tournament today. I say this as an ACC basketball follower and someone that graduated from an ACC school not named BC. (OHHH! BC!!! There is a school that beat Syracuse!!! 1 of their 12!)
The Duke win for Cuse is big. But it isn't a traditional Duke team. And Cuse still can drop 3 in a row and finish with 6 losses in their last 7. For a grand total of 17-15.
The fact is many teams are down across the country and everyone is just choosing the teams they prefer because teams are so flawed.
I choose URI.
But NYG there is obviously a reason CBS sports has Syracuse first 4 out right now and ESPN has nearly the whole ACC in the tournament today. I say this as an ACC basketball follower and someone that graduated from an ACC school not named BC. (OHHH! BC!!! There is a school that beat Syracuse!!! 1 of their 12!)
The Duke win for Cuse is big. But it isn't a traditional Duke team. And Cuse still can drop 3 in a row and finish with 6 losses in their last 7. For a grand total of 17-15.
The fact is many teams are down across the country and everyone is just choosing the teams they prefer because teams are so flawed.
I choose URI.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
True they say this year is a weak bubble so if we take care of business and win our next 5 maybe we sneak in
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
When PC needs big wins, they get them.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Yup, and theyre gonna take our spot too, just another kick in the balls.ATPTourFan wrote:When PC needs big wins, they get them.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
We lost any right to bitch about PC when played them in December. If we'd have won that game as we should have, there would be no discussion now about whether they might get in and we might not. If it comes down to us or them, they should go even though we are the better team and would beat them 7 or 8 out of 10. If you don't take care of your own business then you don't get to feel bad for yourself when everyone else gets the things you want.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
I'm not bitching about them, it's just sad.TruePoint wrote:We lost any right to bitch about PC when played them in December. If we'd have won that game as we should have, there would be no discussion now about whether they might get in and we might not. If it comes down to us or them, they should go even though we are the better team and would beat them 7 or 8 out of 10. If you don't take care of your own business then you don't get to feel bad for yourself when everyone else gets the things you want.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Yes sorry, was not saying anyone in particular was bitching I'm just making the point that we have nothing to bitch about.
Agree it is very sad.
Agree it is very sad.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Had a dream last night that we beat Villanova in the Ryan center. There was great rejoicing. We made the tournament.
Then I somehow made it from RI back home to VA in 6 hours...
Hey we accomplished our goal somewhere...my dreams...
Then I somehow made it from RI back home to VA in 6 hours...
Hey we accomplished our goal somewhere...my dreams...
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Dan may yet be able to take credit for helping a RI team make the dance. Unfortunately that team will likely not be URI.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
If that hideous, disgusting institution that shall not be named makes the NCAA -- AGAIN -- and we don't -- AGAIN -- it's going to be a long, cold, dark summer.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Do not put your winter clothes away.Rhode_Island_Red wrote:If that hideous, disgusting institution that shall not be named makes the NCAA -- AGAIN -- and we don't -- AGAIN -- it's going to be a long, cold, dark summer.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
They have 7 straight TP.TruePoint wrote:We lost any right to bitch about PC when played them in December. If we'd have won that game as we should have, there would be no discussion now about whether they might get in and we might not. If it comes down to us or them, they should go even though we are the better team and would beat them 7 or 8 out of 10. If you don't take care of your own business then you don't get to feel bad for yourself when everyone else gets the things you want.
To say we would win 8 out of 10 requires us to actually, you know, win once.
Once.
One time.
I'll believe it when I see it.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
Well most of their teams over the last seven years have been better than our team that year. This year, though, our team was better and should have won the game. Probably should have won it easily, to be honest, based on the respective talent on the teams.
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Re: 2016-17 Bracketology
TP was talking about this year's teams relative strength. The previous annual game outcomes are not relevant.
This year we had them and shit in our pants to blow a late road lead.
This year we had them and shit in our pants to blow a late road lead.
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