Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

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bigappleram
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by bigappleram »

Kmac is splitting hairs and up to his normal self
Dayton edged URI in A10 coaches poll 16 votes to 12 for 1st place. We edged them in AP poll. It's splitting hairs and not insightful to question it, the margin is razor thin in a subjective preseason poll. But wait, he is going to provide a breakdown of his reasoning...on the edge of my seat for that, dude watches very little A10 and is now going to tell us why Dayton should be ranked higher than us.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Billyboy78 »

On the podcast, he said he likes Dayton because they have 4 starters back. Last I looked, we have 5 starters back.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by SGreenwell »

Billyboy78 wrote:On the podcast, he said he likes Dayton because they have 4 starters back. Last I looked, we have 5 starters back.
Dayton might have had a slightly better season than us in 2015-16 though. :) I can understand the reasoning for Dayton over URI, or URI over Dayton, and I don't think one side is going to substantially win me over until both teams start playing games.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

This is a great first step!

Go Rhody!
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by josephski »

Yea and all four of Dayton's starters have been to the NCAA tournament. Three out of the four have been to the NCAA tournament all three years. Experience does make a difference in college basketball, whether users on this board want to admit it or not.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

We do admit it. They have more experience and on paper have more weapons.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by bigappleram »

Of course their NCAA experience matters and is valuable. As is the fact that with a depleted squad we handled their NCAA team last year on their home floor. Net net the margin of difference before the games are played is minimal, and why in 2 subjective polls they came in neck and neck. Hence the term splitting hairs. Let the games begin.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by josephski »

I get that it's splitting hairs but it's also the difference between being in the top 25 and on the outside looking in. We've had a ton of publicity due to being in the top 25 which probably would not have happened to the same extent if we were predicted to be in the 26-30 range. Ultimately it won't mean much when the games start but the fact this board has talked about how much the hype helps this program because we're in the top 25 I think it's fair for people to question why we're in over Dayton.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ace »

From a Dayton perspective, their weakness is their front court depth after a relatively under-sized Pollard (Cunningham, Miller, and Williams??), which could have affected how they're seen nationally in comparison to other teams. Rhode Island isn't as deep there, but they do have two healthy returning A10 starters. Pollard's knee has been a concern, but he reportedly played in their recent scrimmage. EC's knee injury was more severe but also seemingly more straightforward. Pollard's was a bit more nebulous- bone bruise, cartilage injury. He also had surgery on his wrist.

Head to head, the backcourts (Garrett, Terrell, Matthews vs Smith, Davis, Cooke) are solid across the board, probably a wash if EC is completely healthy. Dayton's guys had the advantage of being worked in slowly, maximizing chances for success and being lesser role players on team that got to the Elite Eight.

But who knows? VCU could sneak in and win it all. What's best for the conference is if the top teams- whoever they are- dominate, minimize bad losses, and separate themselves from the rest of the conference pack.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Rhody15 »

Not going to lie, with us being ranked in the preseason AP poll for the first time since 1998, I expected more posts on the topic. But I'm sure we'll get plenty of posts when we lose a close game or miss free throws in the second half of a game.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Virtually every team in the country will lose close games for whatever reasons......some will just lose more of them......

We have to stop being one of them.......
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by HASwatTeam »

rambone 78 wrote:Virtually every team in the country will lose close games for whatever reasons......some will just lose more of them......

We have to stop being one of them.......
It hurt knowing how true this is...

FTs FTs FTssssssss
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by reef »

How can you tell on the AP poll which voters voted us in and which didn't ??
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

William Geoghegan of the Independent posted about the dual Top 25 rankings Rhody Basketball has earned a week before the season begins.

http://www.independentri.com/rhody_over ... 3c726.html
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by luke »

Regarding Dayton, is everyone forgetting Dayton lost their overall best player and leader in Pierre ? and Dayton, sadly lost Steve Mackelvane who
was a major contributor especially on the boards and protecting the lane on defense. I will be very surprised if Dayton is close to where they were at last season when they could have easily lost twice to URI who was without Matthews and and bench depth.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Rhody15 »

luke wrote:Regarding Dayton, is everyone forgetting Dayton lost their overall best player and leader in Pierre ? and Dayton, sadly lost Steve Mackelvane who
was a major contributor especially on the boards and protecting the lane on defense. I will be very surprised if Dayton is close to where they were at last season when they could have easily lost twice to URI who was without Matthews and and bench depth.
They have a track record, less questions about their roster than we do, and have just as much talent on paper as us. They probably did deserve to get picked before us. Also, IMO, Charles Cooke was their best player, not Pierre.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

K-Mac not voting for URI is fine, but I'd love to hear him rationalize Texas A&M over Saint Mary's. That's grade A power conference homerism garbage.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by twisted3829 »

he said he'd have a column with the reasoning for his votes
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

twisted3829 wrote:he said he'd have a column with the reasoning for his votes
According to CollegePollTracker he has SIX, count 'em, SIX "extreme" picks which are 5 or more positions above/below actual poll position.

http://www.collegepolltracker.com/baske ... pre-season
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by bigappleram »

That would make sense given his narrow perspective on the game at large. If it didn't happen at the Dump it didn't happen to him.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by SmartyBarrett »

ATPTourFan wrote:
twisted3829 wrote:he said he'd have a column with the reasoning for his votes
According to CollegePollTracker he has SIX, count 'em, SIX "extreme" picks which are 5 or more positions above/below actual poll position.

http://www.collegepolltracker.com/baske ... pre-season
And that doesn't include teams he didn't vote for that overwhelmingly made the list. He left St. Mary's off and most had them in the mid-teens. He also voted Texas A&M 20th and they came in at 38. I'm not saying the consensus picks are the correct ones (and for all anyone knows, he was torn on SMC and they barely missed the cut). But I find those two particular selections highly questionable given the expectations of both teams coming into this season.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by josephski »

ATPTourFan wrote:
twisted3829 wrote:he said he'd have a column with the reasoning for his votes
According to CollegePollTracker he has SIX, count 'em, SIX "extreme" picks which are 5 or more positions above/below actual poll position.

http://www.collegepolltracker.com/baske ... pre-season
Seth Davis has 6, Cormac Gordon has 10, Dick Vitale has 9, what's the point of having a bunch of different people voting if you want them all to have the same picks?
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

You have a valid point. 6 is still on the high side.

Cormac had us at 14 or something crazy. He's also from Staten Island and must own Hurley stock.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by josephski »

Just googled Hassan Martin an article by Gordon was the third link down so that might explain it.

Either way I do disagree with Kmac's picks but I'd prefer a bit of variety rather than everyone voting the same. I'd also rather see picks like Kmacs than Elton Alexander who is from Cleveland and put Ohio in his 25 spot.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ramster »

URI had 39 of the 65 Voters put them in the Top 25
- Cormac Gordon had URI the highest at #14 :D :D :D :D :D
- Chris Goff (Ft Wayne Indiana), Kevin Lyttle (Austin, Texas) and Scott Richey (Champaign, Illinois) had URI #17 :D :D :D :D
- 3 Voters had URI #18 :D :D :D
- 3 Voters had URI #19 :D :D
- 5 @ #20 :D
- 6 @ #21 :D
- 9 @ #22 :D
- 3 @ #23 :D
- 4 @ #24 :D
- 2 @ #25 :D
- 26 Voters did not rank URI :( :( :(

How Kevin McNamara did not see fit to rank the University of Rhode Island is quite eye opening.
Kevin Ranked Texas A&M #20. 1 Voter had them #23, 1 Voter had them # 24 and 3 Voters had them #25. So only 5 Voters besides Kevin had A&M ranked at all and Kevin had them easily the highest
Kevin Ranked Florida State an incredible #16.

Great information on the Voters. Maybe as the Voters get to see what other Voters did and did not do will help them come to their senses and readjust once the season starts. Can't accuse Kevin of being a homer, that's for sure.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ramster »

Rhody15 wrote:Not going to lie, with us being ranked in the preseason AP poll for the first time since 1998, I expected more posts on the topic. But I'm sure we'll get plenty of posts when we lose a close game or miss free throws in the second half of a game.
Ha, ha. Heaven help us if we lost 2 close games :D :D

Just to put some facts to the Free Throws which I agree FTs get a ton of attention every year here.......

Last Year A10 Conference FT Stats:
1. Davidson 79.9
2. St Bonaventure 78.0
3. George Washington 74.9
4. Saint Louis 71.8
5. Rhode Island 71.3 :D :D and this with arguably our best FT shooter from the previous year out injured. We finished 5th out of 14 teams but one would sometimes think we finished 14th out of 14 teams

Bringing up the rear two of the best teams in the Conference:
11. Virginia Commonwealth 67.8
12. Dayton 67.3

I expect URI to be better this year in FTs because:
More experience for Garrett, Terrell, Iverson and Martin along with the returning bench players
Return of EC
Players not so tired at the end of the game as minutes are better spread due to depth
the Team Special Classes with a FT Specialist to emphasize the mental aspects of FT shooting
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by rjsuperfly66 »

ramster wrote:
Great information on the Voters. Maybe as the Voters get to see what other Voters did and did not do will help them come to their senses and readjust once the season starts. Can't accuse Kevin of being a homer, that's for sure.
One thing with the voters -- I don't think you'll see drastic movement based on how the other voters vote, but rather early season team performance. Early season rankings are extremly difficult with each voter having a different system for why they ranked a team where they did because there really is no basis besides trying to guess upside, growth, freshmen, transfers, etc. But if you have FSU 16th and they win their first two games (Charleston Southern & Iona), you probably aren't going to drop them barring big upsets by underranked teams, and you may even raise them if teams above them lost.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by TruePoint »

I'm not going to waste energy worrying about KMac's top-25 vote, but I will predict that he will not vote us higher than we finish in the poll one time this season. No matter where we are - up or down - he will have us lower. I'm going to set the precedent of not considering it newsworthy or worth complaining about right from the initial poll.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by eli#10 »

The key stat is what was our free throw % without Four. I believe he shot in the might 80's.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by hrstrat57 »

It befuddles me completely as to why any poster on this forum pays any attention to anyone affiliated with the Providence College Journal in regards to Rhode Island Ram basketball.

Noise.

Block it out people.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ramster »

The key stat is the overall FT percentage and over and over Again FT shooting has been blamed for many of our losses. Fact was we finished 5th in FT shooting, with VCU and Dayton in the bottom quadrant of the League. Bottom line FT shooting seems to get overly blamed......
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

Thank goodness they're already in.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

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"The Rams can ask their rivals up at Providence what a top-25 ranking feels like."
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by TruePoint »

ramster wrote:And here you go.......

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... op-25-vote
tl; dr

If his stated reason for not putting URI in was anything other than "if I put them in then I wouldn't be able to write this click-bait column" then he is full of shit.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ramster »

Kevin takes solace in the fact that 26 other voters did not vote URI into the Top 25.
Yet he says nothing about how he put Texas A&M in the 20th ranked position, Yet a whopping 59 other voters did not vote Texas A&M into the Top 25 at all.
One would have thought that the local Rhode Island Voter would have found a way to vote URI at least 25th, but no, he just doesn't think see it. Possibly Too upset or jealous now that the PC Friars are picked to finish 9th in the watered down Big East based on historic Big East team compositions.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Section104 »

KMac and BKoch are a complete joke. I look forward to the day the Providence Journal collapses.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

What did Bill Koch do to be called a joke?
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by TruePoint »

Bill is not a joke. Bill is a good guy and a good writer, and he does a good job covering URI basketball. I will say, though, that I am just slightly disappointed by what I perceive to be a concerted effort on his part to prove to KMac that he isn't a URI homer because he came to the projo from the South County Independent. In my opinion, the projo is lucky to have Bill, not the other way around. Why anyone would want to prove anything to KMac is beyond me. Bill is a good writer and knows the game well. KMac is a bad-bodied cheerleader and small-time hack.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by CT Rhody »

An interesting NCAA field projection, here is the URI snapshot with a projected 6 seed.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/26 ... ket/page/7
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Rhody15 »

I will say though, in person, Bill tries his hardest to separate himself from URI. Any time I have seen him out, and either say "Go Rhody", and try to talk to him about Rhody basketball, he responds with something along the lines of "I don't cheer for a team, I just write", or "No fan affiliation here" and proceeds to just keep walking.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by thatRamBand »

Bill just really seems to enjoy Basketball in general. Happy to have him covering the team and really find no issue in the way he goes about it.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by rambone 78 »

Koch is supposed to be impartial.....as part of his job...I'm sure he still likes Rhody
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ramster »

ramster wrote:
Rhody15 wrote:Not going to lie, with us being ranked in the preseason AP poll for the first time since 1998, I expected more posts on the topic. But I'm sure we'll get plenty of posts when we lose a close game or miss free throws in the second half of a game.
Ha, ha. Heaven help us if we lost 2 close games :D :D

Just to put some facts to the Free Throws which I agree FTs get a ton of attention every year here.......

Last Year A10 Conference FT Stats:
1. Davidson 79.9
2. St Bonaventure 78.0
3. George Washington 74.9
4. Saint Louis 71.8
5. Rhode Island 71.3 :D :D and this with arguably our best FT shooter from the previous year out injured. We finished 5th out of 14 teams but one would sometimes think we finished 14th out of 14 teams

Bringing up the rear two of the best teams in the Conference:
11. Virginia Commonwealth 67.8
12. Dayton 67.3

I expect URI to be better this year in FTs because:
More experience for Garrett, Terrell, Iverson and Martin along with the returning bench players
Return of EC
Players not so tired at the end of the game as minutes are better spread due to depth
the Team Special Classes with a FT Specialist to emphasize the mental aspects of FT shooting
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/men ... ews?page=2

Comparing some of Kevin's Controversial Rankings to the Top144CollegeMadness Rankings:
Kevin/144 CollegeMadness
Texas A&M 20/42
San Diego State 22/44
Florida State 16/33
UCLA 7/20

144 Madness had URI at 25

So since he is so far off on several of his predictions it should not be so surprising that he would not list URI.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by bigappleram »

I find them both to be condescending in tone, BK less so than KM but much moreso since he moved over to Projo.
Biggest difference is BK actually knows the program, and follows URI and A10, whereas KM merely pontificates without spending any time doing his homework.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by ATPTourFan »

But KMac went to that one VCU game last year so he knows everything. :roll:
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Rhody15 »

bigappleram wrote:I find them both to be condescending in tone, BK less so than KM but much moreso since he moved over to Projo.
Biggest difference is BK actually knows the program, and follows URI and A10, whereas KM merely pontificates without spending any time doing his homework.
I do agree Koch has become veryyyy condescending whether on twitter or in person.
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by Iggy1979 »

San Diego State? The same San Diego State that got blown out by an A10 team in the NIT?
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Re: Early Top 25 Lists for 2016-17

Unread post by luke »

Regarding ft shooting for this season, I'm not sure it will be better because there won't be Four on the floor
who was pretty automatic . will EC be as good as four at the line ? I doubt it, but the rest of the team may
be better and Watson wasn't great there so you are able to minus him.
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