NCAA Coaching Carousel - 2016

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

I would agree about Walker. Amazing player.

Ernie D was the best passer I ever saw.

Met him once at Iggy's in SK when he was a sophomore at PC.

Could hardly speak English, but he could play. That's all that matters!

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Travis Ford's been hired at Saint Louis. Head coaches that want a job don't seem to stay out of work for very long. It's not exactly the most inspiring of hires.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:Travis Ford's been hired at Saint Louis. Head coaches that want a job don't seem to stay out of work for very long. It's not exactly the most inspiring of hires.

No, but on the plus side we get to play against a Travis Ford coached team every year again! And I'm sure Jared is looking forward to seeing him.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 8 years ago

Why did Ford fail at Oklahoma St ? A big school in a P5 FBS conference with huge financial resources.....count me as not sold on this hire....

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

Travis Ford, back in the A10.....

Should be a good one when St. Louis hooks up with UMass.

Two lousy bench coaches going at it......

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

For a board that puts huge value on a coach reaching the NCAA Tournament it should be noted that Ford made the dance in 5 of 8 years at Oklahoma State.
He has $7million left on his 3 years so not bad for Ford as he moves on to SLU.
SLU had wanted to talk to Drew but Drew's value is growing as he takes Valpo to the finals of the NIT against GW so he was not talking while his team continues to play. Will be interesting to see what Drew does next.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

5 out of 8 may sound good, but in some places, it's all about what have you done for me lately?

With Okie State's resources and the conference they play in, that's not good enough I guess.

Here, if Dan gets us to 5 NCAA tournaments in the next 8 years, he will be named King for Life.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:5 out of 8 may sound good, but in some places, it's all about what have you done for me lately?

With Okie State's resources and the conference they play in, that's not good enough I guess.

Here, if Dan gets us to 5 NCAA tournaments in the next 8 years, he will be named King for Life.

Still, at the end of the day, Ford, with 5 NCAA appearances in 8 years, brings a proven record of performance to SLU and should be considered an improvement over Crews. Good hire for the A10. Ford will have SLU back in the upper tier of the A10 with his recruiting skills. I would not expect SLU to sleep much longer.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

True, ramster. The A10 is most likely the proper level for Ford.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

Rutgers was considering Ford and some of their posters seemed to prefer Ford. If I'm Rutgers I take Ford over Steve Pikiell from Stonybrook. Will be interesting to see how Rutgers does vs SLU.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 8 years ago

Guess Cooley is staying

"Friar for life" per Father Shanley

Well good for him I guess...

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 8 years ago

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/ ... /160339981

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 8 years ago

hrstrat57 wrote:"Friar for life" per Father Shanley

Poor guy

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Truly CFL.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

Coach at PC for the rest of his Coaching Career

As he said back in Devember "Merry Christmas"......he can feed his kids
http://www.coxhub.com/articles/as-a-fan ... its-my-job

CFL contract given to a guy who was ranked 8th AP poll then went 2-5 in the clutch month of February and rapidly faded out of the Top 25 finishing conference play in 4th place with a mediocre 10-8 record with two first team all conference players.
More power to the Friars

He got a ton of money and job security..........

But many many people will be happy that's for sure

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 8 years ago

And got PC to it's 3rd straight tourney for the first time since the 70s.
And got PC it's 1st NCAA win since the 90s.
And athletic-related donations have grown every season which assisted in the development of the training/practice facility.

IMHO, given where PC was in 2011, the complete body of work has been tremendous and should be compensated as such. Doesn't mean it's been perfect, but it's been a very strong turnaround. Cooley still has some areas to grow but has warranted every dollar he has been given.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Agree.
I like Big Ed. He's done a great job.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 8 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Agree.
I like Big Ed. He's done a great job.

Yep, unfortunately he has...

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 8 years ago

I love what Cooley has built at PC, to the point I have been accused of being a PC fan on this board.

That said, giving any coach an indefinite extension is just asking for trouble down the road.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

STC wrote:I love what Cooley has built at PC, to the point I have been accused of being a PC fan on this board.

Yeah, don't your initials really stand for: "ST. Cooley"??????????????????

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:And got PC to it's 3rd straight tourney for the first time since the 70s.
And got PC it's 1st NCAA win since the 90s.
And athletic-related donations have grown every season which assisted in the development of the training/practice facility.

IMHO, given where PC was in 2011, the complete body of work has been tremendous and should be compensated as such. Doesn't mean it's been perfect, but it's been a very strong turnaround. Cooley still has some areas to grow but has warranted every dollar he has been given.

Tremendous?
I suppose if you compare to 2011, everything is relative, therefore tremendous might fit
3 straight 4th place finishes in a watered down BE
Lost 5 of 7 games in February to blow out the 8th national ranking
10-8 league performance? Would you have called that tremendous before the season started
Nationals POY candidate and two first team BE players and go 10-8?
Blasted on the PC scout board similar to what Hurley gets here after losses - many saying he freezes and can't call time outs effectively?
One recruit for next year until just recently added a big guy
Looking at the transfer guys and 5th year guys to fill holes now

I just don't see the guy the same way with at most everyone else does.
Of course I am admittedly not objective.

For me I'm glad PC made him Coach for Life. He can sit back and relax.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

According to Cooley, he's got his dream job, in so many words.

He doesn't want to go anywhere else.

As long as he produces, he's there for a long while.

Not going to be that easy, as recruiting there can be choppy. Not many like Dunn come along very often.

He's fortunate that the BE isn't what it was, that's for sure.

It's hard to knock what he's done so far, however.

Who are we to talk at this point?

It's Cooley 3, Hurley 0 when it comes to NCAA's. Ouch.

Cameron_Dollar · Unread post by **Cameron_Dollar** » 8 years ago

Top to bottom, Big East has it all over the A10.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

I like Ramster's analysis. Cooley had two 1st team all BE players who were the POY and the leagues top scorer and wound up 10-8 in 4th place. They were 1 and 5 against the top 3 teams.
I am not impressed with Cooley's x's and o's. Even the posters on their board complained about this throughout the year. Dunn would dribble too much with the shot clock running down with no movement by the other players.
Last year against Dayton they had a huge size advantage and their two 7 footers took 2 shots (maybe only 1) in the entire game. They never tried to get the ball down low for shots that would not have been contested. Nice game plan! His chair throwing incident and technical clinched the game for Dayton.
USC gift wrapped the NCAA game with missed free throws in the last 90 seconds or so.
We need to model out free throw defense after the Friars..............

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

Cameron_Dollar wrote:Top to bottom, Big East has it all over the A10.

^ sad...but true

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 8 years ago

At the end of the day, it's not about how you got there, it's about making it to the tournament.
I was very critical about some in-game stuff this year, but it did evolve some after a tenuous February that saw some regression back to where PC probably was, and injury issues with both Dunn and Bentil.
You can talk about the bad that Cooley's done, but don't also ignore the good.
In 2014, he took a team that lost it's starting PG and SF and an end of the rotation forward right before the season started, and took a depth chart of basically 6 to the BET Championship, and basically 5 guys had PC within 30 seconds of beating a superiorly athletic and deeper UNC team in the tournament.
The luck he got to make it to the BET Title game, doesn't even come close to making up for all the tough breaks that roster took before they even tipped off the season. They also still had a Top 50 RPI, and were on the bubble basically all season.
This year people thought PC would be trash because there was no one behind Dunn, but Cooley was able to develop Bentil in a 1st team All-BE player and get them the elusive tourney win.
Expectations will increase, but for a program that made 3 tournaments from 1995-2013, to have made 3 from 2014-2016, I would still say he has done a tremendous job, regardless of how he got there.
You can catch some lucky breaks, but it's really hard to just luck your way to 3 straight bids.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:According to Cooley, he's got his dream job, in so many words.

He doesn't want to go anywhere else.

As long as he produces, he's there for a long while.

Not going to be that easy, as recruiting there can be choppy. Not many like Dunn come along very often.

He's fortunate that the BE isn't what it was, that's for sure.

It's hard to knock what he's done so far, however.

Who are we to talk at this point?

It's Cooley 3, Hurley 0 when it comes to NCAA's. Ouch.

But Cooley just got presented a Contract for Life, Hurley didn't

Cooley got to the NCAA 3 times in a watered down Big East and Cooley did not win an NCAA game until Southern California sent
him one beautifully gift wrapped.

Cooley gets wonderful press on our Board, fantastic comments. But trust me Rambone, go read the in game and post game comments about Cooley's Coaching moves and strategies during and after the losses last season, especially the DePaul loss. I know posters get carried away with losses, especially when your team is favored, but reading their Board at those times can be revealing.

But again, good for Cooley. He has the PC Board convinced that they should anoint him Coach for Life. Maybe a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 would justify that more in my mind, but 10-8 Big East with 2 first Team Players and 1 the POY for 2 straight years. Lost many key recruiting battles just this year with Marfo going to A10 GW and many others. Last Spring he Lost Freshman ESPN Top 100 Center Chuckwu when he had absolutely no idea that the kid was unhappy at all?
We can talk all day about the kids he developed. How about the kids he did not develop to expectations?

Rodney Bullock who Cooley said in preseason that Bullock could lead the Big East in scoring this season? Cooley did have a player lead the Big East in scoring so he was right in that but it was Bentil not Bullock. So did Cooley really develop Bentil? or was Cooley just as surprised as the rest of the world when Bentil went from 6 ppg to 21 ppg to lead the Big East in scoring by a whopping 4 points over the next closest guy and got most improved BE player and most improved Nationally? Well deserved accolades for Bentil for sure. I think Bentil ends up a first round NBA pick this year but Cooley did not predict Bentil, he predicted Bullock.
Bullock played 37 minutes against North Carolina going 0-7 with 2 points and 3 rebounds

Jalen Lindsey came in with huge expectations being a Top 100 ESPN rated player
He has not developed much.
Lindsey played 35 minutes against North Carolina going 1-5 with 2 points and 4 rebounds

I will give Cooley credit for 3 NCAA bids. I grudgingly give him credit for a gift wrapped USC win
3 years in a row 4th place finish in the New BE
I am not convinced his x's and o's coaching is average or above after reading the PC board comments this past season
I am not convinced he can recruit to maintain Top 3 in the NBE moving forward after having lost so many recruiting battles this year. URI is going after similar players to PC now. That almost never happened with JB. We are winning some of those battles.

It's a good strategy for PC and Cooley to come up with and market this new concept - Coach for Life. PC can use that against URI and many other teams as well - and you can be 100% sure that they will. But will it work in the long run? Only time can tell - otherwise it's just conjecture.

Cooley has told his superiors this will help him recruit. Maybe it will. But the bigger question to me is why has Cooley lost so many recruiting battles the past 18 months? Especially with Dunn leaving. Bentil he never thought would be NBA ready now - nobody did. But here he is hitting the recruiting trail in April and May for 2016 players - seems odd to me - especially for a guy who was just awarded Coach for Life.

No way would I have given Cooley Coach for Life. Show me an Elite 8 or Sweet 16 or a strong incoming recruiting class for 2016.

PeterRamTime · Unread post by **PeterRamTime** » 8 years ago

Ed has also had quite a few players coming in with disciplinary problems of course.
But I like him and think he does a good job recruiting. Charismatic guy with a tough background.
If we start winning and being a tournament contender year in and year out we could have a considerable edge on them in recruiting. I image it must be difficult to recruit kids to the number 8 prude school in the country http://www.collegemagazine.com/the-top- ... d-colleges
Couldn't imagine being a coach and having to deal with that complete and utter bullshit!
The big east isn't as big a deal as it used to be. Now they still get better TV contacts and all that.
I know the only reason PC has had the edge in the state against us because they've been in the big east.
But if we can sustain some success we should be an easier sell than the fryaz on the recruiting circuit.
Come to URI where you don't have to obey puritanical bylaws. Being a Puritan sucks.
Now I'm sure the top guys at PC probably don't mind it's top athletes being taken care of behind closed doors....but you all know what I'm saying.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

ramster wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:According to Cooley, he's got his dream job, in so many words.

He doesn't want to go anywhere else.

As long as he produces, he's there for a long while.

Not going to be that easy, as recruiting there can be choppy. Not many like Dunn come along very often.

He's fortunate that the BE isn't what it was, that's for sure.

It's hard to knock what he's done so far, however.

Who are we to talk at this point?

It's Cooley 3, Hurley 0 when it comes to NCAA's. Ouch.
But Cooley just got presented a Contract for Life, Hurley didn't

Cooley got to the NCAA 3 times in a watered down Big East and Cooley did not win an NCAA game until Southern California sent
him one beautifully gift wrapped.

Cooley gets wonderful press on our Board, fantastic comments. But trust me Rambone, go read the in game and post game comments about Cooley's Coaching moves and strategies during and after the losses last season, especially the DePaul loss. I know posters get carried away with losses, especially when your team is favored, but reading their Board at those times can be revealing.

But again, good for Cooley. He has the PC Board convinced that they should anoint him Coach for Life. Maybe a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 would justify that more in my mind, but 10-8 Big East with 2 first Team Players and 1 the POY for 2 straight years. Lost many key recruiting battles just this year with Marfo going to A10 GW and many others. Last Spring he Lost Freshman ESPN Top 100 Center Chuckwu when he had absolutely no idea that the kid was unhappy at all?
We can talk all day about the kids he developed. How about the kids he did not develop to expectations?

Rodney Bullock who Cooley said in preseason that Bullock could lead the Big East in scoring this season? Cooley did have a player lead the Big East in scoring so he was right in that but it was Bentil not Bullock. So did Cooley really develop Bentil? or was Cooley just as surprised as the rest of the world when Bentil went from 6 ppg to 21 ppg to lead the Big East in scoring by a whopping 4 points over the next closest guy and got most improved BE player and most improved Nationally? Well deserved accolades for Bentil for sure. I think Bentil ends up a first round NBA pick this year but Cooley did not predict Bentil, he predicted Bullock.
Bullock played 37 minutes against North Carolina going 0-7 with 2 points and 3 rebounds

Jalen Lindsey came in with huge expectations being a Top 100 ESPN rated player
He has not developed much.
Lindsey played 35 minutes against North Carolina going 1-5 with 2 points and 4 rebounds

I will give Cooley credit for 3 NCAA bids. I grudgingly give him credit for a gift wrapped USC win
3 years in a row 4th place finish in the New BE
I am not convinced his x's and o's coaching is average or above after reading the PC board comments this past season
I am not convinced he can recruit to maintain Top 3 in the NBE moving forward after having lost so many recruiting battles this year. URI is going after similar players to PC now. That almost never happened with JB. We are winning some of those battles.

It's a good strategy for PC and Cooley to come up with and market this new concept - Coach for Life. PC can use that against URI and many other teams as well - and you can be 100% sure that they will. But will it work in the long run? Only time can tell - otherwise it's just conjecture.

Cooley has told his superiors this will help him recruit. Maybe it will. But the bigger question to me is why has Cooley lost so many recruiting battles the past 18 months? Especially with Dunn leaving. Bentil he never thought would be NBA ready now - nobody did. But here he is hitting the recruiting trail in April and May for 2016 players - seems odd to me - especially for a guy who was just awarded Coach for Life.

No way would I have given Cooley Coach for Life. Show me an Elite 8 or Sweet 16 or a strong incoming recruiting class for 2016.

Well, Ramster, "Coach for Life" isn't a new concept. It's a bad one, as we here are well aware of, and though the two schools are different, human nature -- generally speaking -- isn't. Time will tell.
And these extensions are sometimes just as misleading for all concerned. Opt-outs, just causes, etc., are legalese for "Leaving."
Do the job, that's all.
Complicated as it is, it's not.
Win, and everything takes care of itself.
Walter Alston had the right idea.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 8 years ago

These CFL contracts are becoming the norm. We suffered through one. At schools lime PC and URI, administrators have to sweeten the pot when bigger schools sniff around their coaches.
These contracts make coaches unfireable. Who's to say Cooley is as successful six years from now? It's a risk for the school.
Cooley got this on tract because he's been to the Dance three times, he's personally engaging, has reactivated a sleepy fan base and cleaned up the cesspool of the Keno Davis years.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

Ramblinrose wrote:These CFL contracts are becoming the norm. We suffered through one. At schools lime PC and URI, administrators have to sweeten the pot when bigger schools sniff around their coaches.
These contracts make coaches unfireable. Who's to say Cooley is as successful six years from now? It's a risk for the school.
Cooley got this on tract because he's been to the Dance three times, he's personally engaging, has reactivated a sleepy fan base and cleaned up the cesspool of the Keno Davis years.

Sometimes, the sniff should tell The Administration and the fanbase enough. It's when the dog-ass sniffing becomes mutual that it's time to give your blessings and say bye-bye.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 8 years ago

Back to earlier discussion, Eric Murdock, Kevin Stacom and Michael Smith were better players than Cotton. So was Joey Hassett. Eric Wilkiams, too. And you start with Walker, Barnes, Erie D., Lenny Wilkins. John Thompson is in there someplace.
Cotton just doesn't strike me as Top 10.
But I would put Cotton ahead of Ricky Ledo.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Say what you want about Keno (and there's some things to say), he delivered Cooley two years of Council and three years each of Cotton and Batts, all three of whom were pretty much the best players on Cooley's teams the first three years (Cooley's guy Henton, the other). That helps to stabilize a program, especially one that can bring in money and other resources from conference affiliation. There were some who questioned Cooley's ability because he was winning with Keno's guys, but that says more about some fans than it does Cooley.

But getting back on topic would actually be taking about the hiring and firing of coaches, so...

UCH21377 wrote:after Pickeil gets done at Rutgers he will succeed whoever at UTRGV!

Lew Hill... his name is now known. It's Lew Hill. Go Vaqueros!

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

no way on Murdock and Stacom being clearly better than Cotton...close sure, but not clear.

Cotton's senior year was one of the best in recent memory for any college player...

Averaged 40 minutes/game
22 points
6 assists
42% FG
86% FT

carried a team to a BE title and 4th all-time PC scorer. you are forgetting how good he was.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

BAR, I think you'd better check Murdock's senior stats.
He held the NCAA record for steals in a career at the time.
25.6 ppg.
5.3 assists
5.3 rpg.
44.5% FG
81.2% FT
2,021 career points.
9 year NBA career.
2nd Team Consensus All American

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

I remember that season. Didnt realize he was an AA! Maybe he gets a slight edge. They are 4th and 5th in career scoring at PC. My guess (bc i dont remember and am too lazy to look up) is that Murdock had more around him, esp given Cotton carried a mash unit into the NCAA tourney.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 8 years ago

This us nuts. Karl Hobbs is leaving UCONN to be associate head coach at Rutgers.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Rhody74 wrote:This us nuts. Karl Hobbs is leaving UCONN to be associate head coach at Rutgers.

Pikiell was Hobbs' assistant and now it's switched. It's nice what a $800,000 salary pool for assistants can do for you.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

I think URI's is about half that.......

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Mike Riordan was better than Cotton.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Jimmy Walker was the best college player I ever saw in person.
Just amazing and way ahead of his time with
the amazing array of moves he had.
He once got 38 points in the second half of
a game with us at Keaney. 47 for the game.
Think about that for a second.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 8 years ago

Walker and Pete Maravich were my favorite players in my early days watching college hoops.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Maravich was on a plateau of his own.
Just a magician with the ball.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

What did PM average one season? 44 points?

And this was before the 3 pt. shot. Steph Curry would have some competition.

Besides him, I agree with Rod. Jimmy Walker was unbelievable.

Back then, local talent stayed home for the most part. And there was plenty of it.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 8 years ago

Maravich and Calvin Murphy that era produced a show for sure

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 8 years ago

Jason Terry interviews for the UAB gig while still playing for the Rockets.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15108 ... g-position

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Jimmy Walker was the first player I saw dribble the ball between his legs. Now everybody does it.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 8 years ago

Walker was the best ever to play in New England. Not even close. Pretty sure he had more than 2,000 points and only played 3 years.
I remember a game against BC in the old MSG in the Holiday Festival when he scored 50. The Holiday Festival was a great tournament back in the day.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Maravich averaged 44.2 ppg for his career and
scored 3,667 points in THREE years.
Someone went back and looked at where he shot
from in every game.
They concluded he'd have averaged 55.8 ppg for his career
if there was a 3 point line!
Until he played with the Celtics at the end, he
wasn't fortunate enough to have a cast of
players around him, as Curry has at GS.
The Hawks and the Jazz were awful to mediocre at best.
Nobody was a better passer, either.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

eli#10 wrote:Walker was the best ever to play in New England. Not even close. Pretty sure he had more than 2,000 points and only played 3 years.
I remember a game against BC in the old MSG in the Holiday Festival when he scored 50. The Holiday Festival was a great tournament back in the day.

I agree that Walker was great, but did you ever hear of a guy named Cousy?

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