Game 26: @ VCU Tuesday Feb 16, 7:30PM: CBSSN

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

That's a lot of issues, isn't it?

A lot of issues to fix next season.

That's not a good feeling. If we just had one or two areas where we needed to improve, that's OK.

This isn't OK.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Nothing much to say after this one....

The Lost Season.

Going to be some soul searching going on this offseason......

aka "baseball season"

jasonmiller88 · Unread post by **jasonmiller88** » 8 years ago

Horrible offense. Last few games we played as a team. Selfish high screen and roll basketball.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

TruePoint wrote:Just undermanned. You can't win in this league if you only have 4 guys contributing. I hate to beat the same drum over and over, but there has to be some focus on developing Thompson and Akele down the stretch here because we cannot go into next season with a bench that could throw up a goose egg in an important game.

Did you notice, at one point in the game, VCU subbed 4 guys at the same time...with no drop-off? I wonder what that must be like...?

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

This was a very funny thread about the VCU guy and the direct TV reference

But why is there a limit of 3 embedded quotes?
other boards do not have this limit that I have seen
This group of 3-4 quotes was really hilarious and would have been fun to keep expanding

So many funny comments I'm dreading the serious comments to come after this game

Already time to move on to the next game

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

208, I have to say I was expecting some close to that at this point in the DH era......given we were expecting a greater bench load......oh, I forgot the EC injury.....

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

section(105) wrote:208, I have to say I was expecting some close to that at this point in the DH era......given we were expecting a greater bench load......oh, I forgot the EC injury.....

As has been pointed out on a few hundred (ok thousand) occasions...I haven't been around forever...but...when was the last time Rhody subbed 4 or even 3 at a time....in a non-blowout/non game-over situation?

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

ramster wrote:This was a very funny thread about the VCU guy and the direct TV reference

But why is there a limit of 3 embedded quotes?
other boards do not have this limit that I have seen
This group of 3-4 quotes was really hilarious and would have been fun to keep expanding

So many funny comments I'm dreading the serious comments to come after this game

Already time to move on to the next game

Had to keep it light and colorful. It was a rough night.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
section(105) wrote:208, I have to say I was expecting some close to that at this point in the DH era......given we were expecting a greater bench load......oh, I forgot the EC injury.....
As has been pointed out on a few hundred (ok thousand) occasions...I haven't been around forever...but...when was the last time Rhody subbed 4 or even 3 at a time....in a non-blowout/non game-over situation?

Closed scrimmage versus Harvard.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

Sweep The Leg wrote:
NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
section(105) wrote:208, I have to say I was expecting some close to that at this point in the DH era......given we were expecting a greater bench load......oh, I forgot the EC injury.....
As has been pointed out on a few hundred (ok thousand) occasions...I haven't been around forever...but...when was the last time Rhody subbed 4 or even 3 at a time....in a non-blowout/non game-over situation?
Closed scrimmage versus Harvard.

touche'

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

208, I recall Baron, away game at Brown, sat all five starters(including Jonathan(video) Holden) to teach them some sorta shock lesson.....

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

section(105) wrote:208, I recall Baron, away game at Brown, sat all five starters(including Jonathan(video) Holden) to teach them some sorta shock lesson.....

Leave it to Brown to bring out the best....just like this year

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:
section(105) wrote:208, I have to say I was expecting some close to that at this point in the DH era......given we were expecting a greater bench load......oh, I forgot the EC injury.....
As has been pointed out on a few hundred (ok thousand) occasions...I haven't been around forever...but...when was the last time Rhody subbed 4 or even 3 at a time....in a non-blowout/non game-over situation?

I honestly don't ever remember a time where were that deep to sub in and out 3/4 players at a time (my sample size is 30 years of watching). Granted, I'm not sure that VCU does this every game. They had a sizable lead, so they could afford to make wholesale changes with limited risk.

When we had very good teams, our guards literally played every minute of every game except if they were in foul trouble, but even then they stayed in. Maybe Baron's NIT team because they pressed a lot? The 1992-1993 was pretty evenly talented and was 9 deep.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

Right now we basically have 3 very talented players plus a limited Iverson.

That's about it.

Get in foul trouble, which is easy the way we play, and it's a disaster against a team like this.

Of course we'll have more depth next season, but how high quality will it be?

The fate of next season, imo rests in the hands of the newcomers, plus the development of CT and Akele.

And yes, how good EC will be.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

Depth minus the quality is not depth.....more like death?

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

section(105) wrote:208, I recall Baron, away game at Brown, sat all five starters(including Jonathan(video) Holden) to teach them some sorta shock lesson.....

Did he give them a speech?
Did the some sorta shock lesson work?

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Right now we basically have 3 very talented players plus a limited Iverson.

That's about it.

Get in foul trouble, which is easy the way we play, and it's a disaster against a team like this.

Of course we'll have more depth next season, but how high quality will it be?

The fate of next season, imo rests in the hands of the newcomers, plus the development of CT and Akele.

And yes, how good EC will be.

Robinson.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Right now we basically have 3 very talented players plus a limited Iverson.

That's about it.

Get in foul trouble, which is easy the way we play, and it's a disaster against a team like this.

Of course we'll have more depth next season, but how high quality will it be?

The fate of next season, imo rests in the hands of the newcomers, plus the development of CT and Akele.

And yes, how good EC will be.

The key for next year will be our frontcourt play. We get eaten alive down low even when Hassan and KI are in the game. When one or both are out, it's astronomically bad. We'll need one of the three new freshman to produce right away, Berry get in great shape and contribute or Berry transfers and we get a post-grad big man. I want someone big and mean to stand up to Cox.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

ramster wrote:
section(105) wrote:208, I recall Baron, away game at Brown, sat all five starters(including Jonathan(video) Holden) to teach them some sorta shock lesson.....
Did he give them a speech?
Did the some sorta shock lesson work?

His speech should have always been, "If I can get a hot wife, anything is possible."

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 8 years ago

Sub 4 with no drop off? Not sure that is true. It looks that way against URI but not against teams that are better than 150 RPI.

Teams play with less players. It only takes 5 on the court. 1-2 off the bench in small roles. You adjust the way you play and keep it at a pace where the team can win.

It doesn't matter how many people VCU plays. St Joes last tournament team played 6 guys and got hosed against eventual champ Uconn.

Temple with Khalif Wyatt was a 1 trick pony that grinded the game out. PC? Cotton's team grinded it out.

Make Jarvis a volume guy if he is the scorer and have the rest of the team play that way with a little Martin and Terrell. Its the most popular way to win games at all levels.

Beautiful team basketball with equal opportunity is the most difficult kind and its highest form.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 8 years ago

Thorr should be busy working on the press release that goes out after the team is bounced in Brooklyn. It should basically read that the program is not satisfied with its performance this season and that it will not participate in any of the lesser tourneys (those other than NCAA and NIT) but instead will immediately begin working on the process for getting better for next year.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

Have to agree on the current depth...quite shallow. Would think that there has to be concern that the depth situation will change drastically next year... I'm not a recruit follower, but will they have 4 new guys (or 3 + EC) that can just step in and play a bunch of front-court minutes from the get go? I hope so, but do we "know" that?

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

RF1 wrote:Thorr should be busy working on the press release that goes out after the team is bounced in Brooklyn. It should basically read that the program is not satisfied with its performance this season and that it will not participate in any of the lesser tourneys (those other than NCAA and NIT) but instead will immediately begin working on the process for getting better for next year.

Not even the Coach Baron Invitational (CBI)?

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

Ramster, yes It worked wonders for Jonathan's video minor, went onto recent suspension for Huggins, coach Baron told the rest of them they"had to make shots"....and I think we pulled off a late game run to win.....Billy sat near me cause he was awaiting a grand entry into second semester of Pop's season, I think we won....

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 8 years ago

Sweep The Leg wrote:
RF1 wrote:Thorr should be busy working on the press release that goes out after the team is bounced in Brooklyn. It should basically read that the program is not satisfied with its performance this season and that it will not participate in any of the lesser tourneys (those other than NCAA and NIT) but instead will immediately begin working on the process for getting better for next year.
Not even the Coach Baron Invitational (CBI)?

A big NO to that. No postseason this year.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Have to agree on the current depth...quite shallow. Would think that there has to be concern that the depth situation will change drastically next year... I'm not a recruit follower, but will they have 4 new guys (or 3 + EC) that can just step in and play a bunch of front-court minutes from the get go? I hope so, but do we "know" that?

We have 4 coming in. 3 are frontcourt players and 1 guard.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

I do not think Thorr will even need that press release....

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

RF1 wrote:
Sweep The Leg wrote:
RF1 wrote:Thorr should be busy working on the press release that goes out after the team is bounced in Brooklyn. It should basically read that the program is not satisfied with its performance this season and that it will not participate in any of the lesser tourneys (those other than NCAA and NIT) but instead will immediately begin working on the process for getting better for next year.
Not even the Coach Baron Invitational (CBI)?
A big NO to that. No postseason this year.

Man...and I didn't even get recognized once on the video board as 'season ticket holder of the year'...I thought this was going to be the year, too.... I mean, don't they say, first time's a charm?

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

section(105) wrote:I do not think Thorr will even need that press release....

LOL...what a spot to be in! Thinking about refusing a 'beneath the program' invite that might not even come....
Awk-ward.....

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:Have to agree on the current depth...quite shallow. Would think that there has to be concern that the depth situation will change drastically next year... I'm not a recruit follower, but will they have 4 new guys (or 3 + EC) that can just step in and play a bunch of front-court minutes from the get go? I hope so, but do we "know" that?

No, no we don't.....more unknowns than knows...

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

RF1 wrote:
Sweep The Leg wrote:
RF1 wrote:Thorr should be busy working on the press release that goes out after the team is bounced in Brooklyn. It should basically read that the program is not satisfied with its performance this season and that it will not participate in any of the lesser tourneys (those other than NCAA and NIT) but instead will immediately begin working on the process for getting better for next year.
Not even the Coach Baron Invitational (CBI)?
A big NO to that. No postseason this year.

I said it in jest. Paying to play in a meaaningless tournament is worse than being Rutgers.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

OK...I think that's where the line can be drawn. Is there REALLY anything worse than being Rutgers right now? I mean have you SEEN Rutgers (and their situation) lately?

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote: OK...I think that's where the line can be drawn. Is there REALLY anything worse than being Rutgers right now? I mean have you SEEN Rutgers (and their situation) lately?

Kinda like UMess on a self destruct program following the pigskin.....

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

OK, back to the game tonite.....how were the free throws?

Rhody15 · Unread post by **Rhody15** » 8 years ago

section(105) wrote:OK, back to the game tonite.....how were the free throws?

60% (12-20)

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 8 years ago

McGlynn had 35 min. PT and scored no points. Sort of says it all.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 8 years ago

Four On The Floor only works in the automotive industry.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

Obadiah wrote:McGlynn had 35 min. PT and scored no points. Sort of says it all.

Please pass the crow

josephski · Unread post by **josephski** » 8 years ago

Seawrightspostgame wrote:Sub 4 with no drop off? Not sure that is true. It looks that way against URI but not against teams that are better than 150 RPI.

Teams play with less players. It only takes 5 on the court. 1-2 off the bench in small roles. You adjust the way you play and keep it at a pace where the team can win.

It doesn't matter how many people VCU plays. St Joes last tournament team played 6 guys and got hosed against eventual champ Uconn.

Temple with Khalif Wyatt was a 1 trick pony that grinded the game out. PC? Cotton's team grinded it out.

Make Jarvis a volume guy if he is the scorer and have the rest of the team play that way with a little Martin and Terrell. Its the most popular way to win games at all levels.

Beautiful team basketball with equal opportunity is the most difficult kind and its highest form.

I wouldn't say Joes got hosed. If I remember correctly that game went to ot or was at least the closest game uconn was in all tournament.

Also you're right we don't need a deep bench but we need a solid 7 guys who can play all game. I'm a big cuse fan and Boeheim usually has a 7 man rotation, 8 at the most but their all very good players. Also look at what Dayton did last year with 6 guys.

The problem is Hurley wants to play a style of basketball that requires a deep bench and it's going to be tough recruiting wise to ever get a roster that is talented enough to have a 9 guy rotation. Next year it could happen but that would require vast improvement out of Akele and Thompson as well as the freshman being ready to play right away.

Edit: Also with EC starting I think zone would be really effective and save our guys some energy. With EC, Terrell, Garrett, Iverson and Hassan that's a lot of athleticism and decent length.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 8 years ago

NYGFan_Section208 wrote: OK...I think that's where the line can be drawn. Is there REALLY anything worse than being Rutgers right now? I mean have you SEEN Rutgers (and their situation) lately?

Yeah, that was hyperbole.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 8 years ago

http://www.coxhub.com/articles/vcu-dept ... -uri-83-67

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

so...they really DID play last night? I woke up this morning thinking that was just a nightmare I had

URI2006_Andy · Unread post by **URI2006_Andy** » 8 years ago

Not sure what the obsession with playing zone is. IMO, A 2-3 zone is just not a defense you can play at this level. Even for 1 possession. Smart teams eat up zones. Too many 3s and offensive rebounds. Zone is Cooley's biggest weakness. It's the reason why PC lost to Dayton last year. I'm sure they'll get bounced early again this year trying to play zone against a smart team. To me, it's not even worth practicing zone defense. Use that time to practice late game situations.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

URI2006_Andy wrote:Not sure what the obsession with playing zone is. IMO, A 2-3 zone is just not a defense you can play at this level. Even for 1 possession. Smart teams eat up zones. Too many 3s and offensive rebounds. Zone is Cooley's biggest weakness. It's the reason why PC lost to Dayton last year. I'm sure they'll get bounced early again this year trying to play zone against a smart team. To me, it's not even worth practicing zone defense. Use that time to practice late game situations.

What teams play the zone today other than PC? Are there any teams that use this as their primary defense?

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 8 years ago

ramster wrote:
URI2006_Andy wrote:Not sure what the obsession with playing zone is. IMO, A 2-3 zone is just not a defense you can play at this level. Even for 1 possession. Smart teams eat up zones. Too many 3s and offensive rebounds. Zone is Cooley's biggest weakness. It's the reason why PC lost to Dayton last year. I'm sure they'll get bounced early again this year trying to play zone against a smart team. To me, it's not even worth practicing zone defense. Use that time to practice late game situations.
What teams play the zone today other than PC? Are there any teams that use this as their primary defense?

Every team in D1 should be able to play a zone defense for stretches of a game, either to give a different defensive look, protect players in foul trouble or to adjust to game flow. I've watched a ton of college games this year and you see it in every game. I've especially noticed GW & Xavier employ a 1-3-1 zone and Syracuse with their match up zone. With our lack of depth this year, a zone defense could have kept us in more games and our better players on the floor. We need to adjust the way we play defense, I'm tired of hearing how good a defensive team we are, we foul on almost every possession, and we allow dribble penetration to the better guards we play. Our defense philosophy has not adjusted to the recent rule changes on how officials are calling fouls.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

Its easier said than done. First off, you have to have the personnel -- long teams can play a tough zone, we arent exactly a long team pending who is on the floor. Its also something you have to practice A LOT to be proficient at, given practice time is limited and there are many things a team needs to work on something has to give. I don't subscribe to the notion that a Zone defense is the cure to our ills. VCU played us zone last night for a few stretches and our offense looked much better. Per an earlier post, at the Div 1 level zones can get shredded with simple execution. I do like it as an occasional wrinkle you throw a team out of a time out or late game situation. Also prefer zone in dead ball situations under your own hoop.

NYGFan_Section208 · Unread post by **NYGFan_Section208** » 8 years ago

ramster wrote:
URI2006_Andy wrote:Not sure what the obsession with playing zone is. IMO, A 2-3 zone is just not a defense you can play at this level. Even for 1 possession. Smart teams eat up zones. Too many 3s and offensive rebounds. Zone is Cooley's biggest weakness. It's the reason why PC lost to Dayton last year. I'm sure they'll get bounced early again this year trying to play zone against a smart team. To me, it's not even worth practicing zone defense. Use that time to practice late game situations.
What teams play the zone today other than PC? Are there any teams that use this as their primary defense?

Haven't watched as much as normal, but doesn't Syracuse?

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 8 years ago

I would rather us, when we have the horses with quickness and length, use the full or 3/4 zone trap stuff after made hoops, as the changing it up give different looks from time to time.....all about the talent pool and bench depth....

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 8 years ago

URI2006_Andy wrote:Not sure what the obsession with playing zone is. IMO, A 2-3 zone is just not a defense you can play at this level. Even for 1 possession. Smart teams eat up zones. Too many 3s and offensive rebounds. Zone is Cooley's biggest weakness. It's the reason why PC lost to Dayton last year. I'm sure they'll get bounced early again this year trying to play zone against a smart team. To me, it's not even worth practicing zone defense. Use that time to practice late game situations.

That's ridiculous. PC has had a top 50 defense this year and last. Cuse has played zone for 30 years. UNLV and many others had great matchup zones. PC lost because they scored 53 points. Plain and simple. They shot 30% from 2pt and under 50% from the line. Their defense have up 66 points on 65 possessions against a good offensive team. I bet Cooley would have signed up for that in a second. Really, no one is asking DH to change what he does, fundamentally. You have to be able to switch things up a bit. If Hass is in foul trouble. If Garrett needs a few defensive possessions to catch his breath. These guys have played zone since kindergarten. They'll never be as good as Cuse but you can install it and have it as a tool in the toolbox.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 8 years ago

Thompson has hit the freshman wall, which makes the lack of depth even more glaring. 1-15 from three in last 6 games.

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