Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 11 years ago

If the acc loses those teams they will turn around and take in UConn, Cincy and temple and still be ok. ACC football was always he little brother to the sec and big10 and I don't think that changes. I just don't see where Duke is leaving the ACC for the basketball only C7 - that is a rumor that makes zero sense. Why would duke take 3 mill for the basketball deal when even the depleted ACC teams will probably get 10 mill +

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Thanks, superfly for an answer that I could have predicted, but, of course, in it you ignored my point and put your words in my thinking. First of all, get your facts straight and learn to make apt comparisons . Butler came from one conference and VCU came from another. One loss to two conference is not a big deal. To leave immediately was a decision by VCU not the A-10 and that move was made because the CAA rules would not allow VCU to participate in the CAA tournament championship this year. And the A-10 was not making a power move as you so nicely ignored the initiating events were the BE taking Temple and Charlotte announcing it was leaving because of the need to accommodate its budding football program.

Another example of distorting my comments, I don't expect the C7 to have sympathy (your words) for the A-10, I expect them to show class and professionalism and an orderly exit. For PC fans and, I hope not, the C7 leaders to thoughtlessly even consider a Sept. 2013 start-up shows arrogance. As you point out, the break-up of the A-10 is unlike other conference moves which were done in ones and twos and over time. To leave the A-10 no time to re-align itself is thoughtless. And that is the ONLY point I am making here. So for you to go off in other tangents is silly, just address the one point I made with some balanced and fair thinking.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Do you really not believe the A-10 is prepared for realignment? I would bet you the commish and all the schools on the outside looking in have a plan in place and have already talked to some other schools, such as George Mason, a surefire target. If VCU could get out of the CAA at a snap of a finger, why not George Mason, Old Dominion, or any other potential school?

I would completely agree with you 100% if it was known those other schools were in situations that they could not get out of contracts, leaving the A-10 shorthanded and a mess, but I do not believe that is the case. Still, even better for all would be if the C7 could hurry up and make the important decisions necessary to start a new league, that way everyone can get on with their lives. It will allow stability to the C7+5, and the A-10 sufficient time to find replacements. Realistically though, the odds of the new conference forming by next season is probably 10% or less. Too many variables that still need to be discussed.

Honestly, if you want class/professionalism, realignment isn't the topic for you to be talking about. There is no class or professionalism for any party involved, just some who get screwed way worse than others. Temple showed the MAC no class and the A-10 slightly more but not much, WVU, Pitt, and Cuse showed the BE no class, Maryland showed the ACC no class, etc.

Welcome to the world of a Big East member in October 2011! Constant speculation, no peace of mind, a league full of teams willing to leave for the $. Some of you embraced the demise of PC, but now you are going through exactly the same crap PC fans did. Not all PC fans wish for the demise of URI though -- the state benefits from good basketball at PC AND URI, not one or the other.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

http://articles.philly.com/2013-01-21/s ... and-butler

Philly.com wrote:The best bet is that four or five A-10 schools will end up leaving. Look for Xavier and Butler to go. How many more depends on the size of the new league. If it goes to 12 schools, as its television partners probably would want, expect two or three more A-10 schools to be poached, from a group that includes Richmond, VCU, Dayton, and St. Louis. (Creighton may be the only non-A-10 school under serious consideration.)

So the A-10 is doomed?

The league would take a hit, no doubt, but it's more likely to end up being a two- or three-bid basketball league than sink to one- to two-bid status. Say all those schools go. Temple is gone after this season to join whatever is left of Big East football. (More like the old Conference USA.) Say Butler, Xavier, Richmond, Dayton, and St. Louis all go.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I don't see Richmond being included in that group. Creighton would go before them.

If it comes down to either StLouis or VCU, I say take the Billikens.

Who knows?

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:http://articles.philly.com/2013-01-21/s ... and-butler

Philly.com wrote:The best bet is that four or five A-10 schools will end up leaving. Look for Xavier and Butler to go. How many more depends on the size of the new league. If it goes to 12 schools, as its television partners probably would want, expect two or three more A-10 schools to be poached, from a group that includes Richmond, VCU, Dayton, and St. Louis. (Creighton may be the only non-A-10 school under serious consideration.)

So the A-10 is doomed?

The league would take a hit, no doubt, but it's more likely to end up being a two- or three-bid basketball league than sink to one- to two-bid status. Say all those schools go. Temple is gone after this season to join whatever is left of Big East football. (More like the old Conference USA.) Say Butler, Xavier, Richmond, Dayton, and St. Louis all go.

Nothing new, really. It's still just speculation. I doubt much more will happen until March.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

We've heard the A-10 hasn't given up trying to keep Butler and Xavier and the rest from being poached. We just haven't heard of a plan that would work.

That part interested me a bit. At least they are trying...

spookydog · Unread post by **spookydog** » 11 years ago

St. Louis is going to want to leave just for the sole fact they dont have to play Rhody anymore. We own them!

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

Adam. Do or do not. There is no try.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

Ramblinrose wrote:Adam. Do or do not. There is no try.

Thank you Master Yoda.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

Welcome, you are.

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 11 years ago

the a10 is f*ucked, I read that article said that the a10 could lose xavier butler vcu st louis dayton and get Delaware, stony brook.....and then i threw up

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Before the season started, I knew we weren't going anywhere so I was looking forward to cheering for the good teams in our league. Now, with all this realignment shit going on, I'm not sure who I want to win certain games. I mean, If Butler is playing St. Joes, I kind want the latter to win.
I know it helps the league this year having as many highly regarded teams win as possible, but, knowing that some may be in another league soon can take some of the luster off a big win (for me, anyway).
I'm curious how others feel.

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 11 years ago

ramfan85 wrote:Before the season started, I knew we weren't going anywhere so I was looking forward to cheering for the good teams in our league. Now, with all this realignment shit going on, I'm not sure who I want to win certain games. I mean, If Butler is playing St. Joes, I kind want the latter to win.
I know it helps the league this year having as many highly regarded teams win as possible, but, knowing that some may be in another league soon can take some of the luster off a big win (for me, anyway).
I'm curious how others feel.

Our biggest in conference win for next season might end up being St. Joes...if we won of course

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

RAM67 wrote:I don't know what the financial agreements are between the State and the city of Providence are, but I do know that the University took a blighted building and turned it into a bustling place of higher learning, that is open to all. I do know that the Providence Place mall sits where the former URI Providence campus was, and that is certainly giving the city a fine return.

Pee-C is only agreeing to make a one-time payment to the City of $1 million IF the City abandons the stretch of Huxley Avenue connecting Admiral Street and Eaton Street.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 11 years ago

Of course they want something in return.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

It sounds like you guys are trying to find anything to stick to the wall to hate on PC ... Do you need some cheese?

BTW, you also act like PC is the first to ask for something in return for "payments." J&W's initial payments were a result of a parking setup. To increase their $$ contribution, they wanted more parking. RISD also got a similar deal, throw in some dough, get better parking. Get access to no-parking areas, parking on other roads around campus, etc.

And why don't we stick to facts --- PC agreed to pay $1 million up front (for the abandoned portions of 3 streets) ... They will then contribute $316,000 annually through 2021. Thus, PC is not ONLY paying a one-time $1 million payment.

Sweet manipulation of facts bro.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 11 years ago

Dude, get a fight song and then come post!

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

What college should we steal the fight song from? You have UNC, so can we take Dukes?

We can fix all realignment issues by complaining and acting like kids.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:It sounds like you guys are trying to find anything to stick to the wall to hate on PC.

More facts is the last thing I need to loathe Pee-C. There's more than anyone can use in one lifetime.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Then you also can't complain when many PC fans decide to hate on URI ... It's a two way street, and it's also IGNORANT on both sides.

It's one thing to debate the merits of how a specific team will survive in a specific conference. But are you really that much of a child that you have to moan about PC's payment agreement with the city of Providence to fulfill this hatred, something that you are clearly misinformed about? All of the mentioned schools make their payment agreements based on what the city is giving them, and will spend more money to get more "goods."

Yet to you, it is only a PC thing. Convenient, right? Fulfills your argument without being accurate. Oh well, good thing there are enough informed URI fans out there to make up for you.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

A10 Expansion Committee chair, GW AD Patrick Nero, urges patience as A10 is prepared to act.
http://www.gwhatchet.com/2013/01/24/ner ... -shake-up/

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:Then you also can't complain when many PC fans decide to hate on URI ... It's a two way street, and it's also IGNORANT on both sides.

It's one thing to debate the merits of how a specific team will survive in a specific conference. But are you really that much of a child that you have to moan about PC's payment agreement with the city of Providence to fulfill this hatred, something that you are clearly misinformed about? All of the mentioned schools make their payment agreements based on what the city is giving them, and will spend more money to get more "goods."

Yet to you, it is only a PC thing. Convenient, right? Fulfills your argument without being accurate. Oh well, good thing there are enough informed URI fans out there to make up for you.

And we've also had more self-styled Pee-C fact-checkers come and go on this board than I can count. It's amazing how desperate to feel superior to someone -- anyone -- Pee-C people are that they have to troll the URI boards. Go set your couch on fire.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:A10 Expansion Committee chair, GW AD Patrick Nero, urges patience as A10 is prepared to act.
http://www.gwhatchet.com/2013/01/24/ner ... -shake-up/

Thanks for posting this. Here is the key excerpt in my opinion...

But the tone of the discussions among members of the A-10 is not one of panic, Nero said. While he pointed out that all talks are “pure speculation,” at least until further announcements are made, he said that the league is preparing for “five or six different scenarios," depending on the amount and location of schools that could depart the league.

The recent searches that resulted in the additions of VCU and Butler are a boon, Nero added, because other schools that could have garnered an invitation during that process remain attractive options for the league.

“I do think that you will see a pretty quick reaction on behalf of the Atlantic 10 to say, 'we’re ready,' because we’ve been very proactive in our planning,” Nero said. “There’s always a chance we could add somebody prior to the Catholic 7 making their announcement. That’s always a possibility. It just depends on their timing.”

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote:
rjsuperfly66 wrote:Then you also can't complain when many PC fans decide to hate on URI ... It's a two way street, and it's also IGNORANT on both sides.

It's one thing to debate the merits of how a specific team will survive in a specific conference. But are you really that much of a child that you have to moan about PC's payment agreement with the city of Providence to fulfill this hatred, something that you are clearly misinformed about? All of the mentioned schools make their payment agreements based on what the city is giving them, and will spend more money to get more "goods."

Yet to you, it is only a PC thing. Convenient, right? Fulfills your argument without being accurate. Oh well, good thing there are enough informed URI fans out there to make up for you.
And we've also had more self-styled Pee-C fact-checkers come and go on this board than I can count. It's amazing how desperate to feel superior to someone -- anyone -- Pee-C people are that they have to troll the URI boards. Go set your couch on fire.

If you don't want PC people to go check your board, then don't talk about PC. If you want to bad mouth PC like a clueless person, expect people to show up and discuss. I would hope if someone was making idiotic claims on the PC site about URI, you would continue to have URI fans step up and discuss/correct. There are many good URI posters who come over from time to time and fill in the gaps, and I would really hope they wouldn't be discouraged by the idiotic PC posters, much like yourself.

The topic of realignment unfortunately is a situation that involves both PC and URI.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

URI fans hate PC for the most part.....PC fans hate URI for the most part....conference re-alignment will happen for economic reasons....not out of a sense of loyalty....money swears....

....I go on the PC board and have to stay away for great periods of time because it pains me to read the anti-URI crap from many of their posters....and I am not silly enough to argue back and forth with anonymous bullying idiots who need to feel superior about things that cannot be quantified...

....we have our share of idiots here, also.....but we have been used to being a mid-major for so long I don't see a huge difference in where we end up....in a mid major conference that makes less money than the C7+......

.....I don't know for sure what the C7+ was making in the Big East when it was in it's heyday.....3,4,5 million a year?.....and the A-10 had been closing the gap that had existed 15 years ago....and the A-10 schools made about $70,000 a year each on their TV deal....and they were still closing the huge gap between the conferences.....

.....I suspect the A-10 will survive this round of poaching with the second best basketball-centric non-BCS conference......the gap will be significant however if Butler, X and VCU leave, they seem to be the cream of the crop....and Butler and VCU because they have great young coaches who have chosen to stay at mid-majors.....how long can Butler and VCU keep their coaches when a BCS school, with upwards of 15 million in TV money, come calling.....even the sums being bandied about with the C7+ cannot compete with football money...

.....finally, I believe the City of Providence is being political with not being as forceful with PC as they have been with the secular tax-exempt instutions for fear of the backlash from heaving Catholic voters in the city...

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Ramulous wrote:
....I go on the PC board and have to stay away for great periods of time because it pains me to read the anti-URI crap from many of their posters....and I am not silly enough to argue back and forth with anonymous bullying idiots who need to feel superior about things that cannot be quantified...

That's too bad, you are a good poster and I usually agree with most of what you have to say, and if I don't, it's usually fair and balanced!

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

RJ

I still believe what would be best for East Coast basketball fans would be a total merger of the A-10 and the C7....it would keep present rivalries intact....resuscitate old rivalries....and generate tremendous alumni interest for all the schools.....it just doesn't please the suits at the TV networks....

.....and I believe having 2, 3, and 4 teams in close geographic proximity is a plus for alums and fans of each school.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Some people have mentioned Northeastern and Drexel as potential adds for the A-10, but I would disagree. We should add schools with facilities and fan bases that are attractive. For example, last night Northeastern swept to it's seventh consecutive win and now leads the CAA with a 7-0 mark. 1,004 fans were in attendance. Drexel entertained Northeastern recently and drew less than 2000 and even facing a Big Five rival, St. Joe's, Drexel drew only about 2300. And we complain about attendance of 4,111 versus GW. When you consider that URI has lost 35 games over the last two seasons and more to come, the attendance differences for URI versus NE/Drexel are noteworthy.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Obadiah.

I know the fan bases at those schools are not great......and Drexel in Philly adds nothing to the conference television market wise.....

BU and Northeastern would ostensibly bring the Boston demographic to the table......I say ostensibly because the college sports scene in Boston in abysmal....but there are very good academic institutions.....they should be better draws....perhaps being in a more high-profile conference would help with attendance....

.....I've been following Albany this season.....they seem to be performing well on the court....I don't know their attendance figures.....they are in the capital city of the State of New York....a lot of political leaders in New York attended Albany for law school....and the legislature is located there....it may be a possible candidate for moving to a slightly more visible conference...

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Albany plays at the SEFCU Arena, holds 4,553 people.

They average 2,609 this season, or 57%.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

RJ

Siena seems to be the biggest draw in upstate NY.....after Syracuse of course....but they are Catholic......I was looking for State schools or non-secular schools who might be interested in moving....

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

How about Ohio University?

ramswin · Unread post by **ramswin** » 11 years ago

Siena is a better option. They draw real well even in down years like this season. They will fire their Coach at the end of this year and rebuild. Siena, George Mason, Ohio, Creighton, Davidson, Kent St are some names off the top of my head.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Raiding the MAC – Kent State, Ohio - is unrealistic because it is a FCS football conference. The best conference without football is the MVC. Forgetting the geographic challenge, this conference could be in play if Creighton bolts for the C7. Would others be tempted to leave or would the MVC just find new members to add since losing one school is not a big gap to fill? There are several MVC schools that would be attractive adds - my preference is Bradley and Southern Illinois, both with good fan bases and attractive facilities. SIU may be down, but they have a basketball tradition that Northeastern lacks. George Mason, Charleston (nice new arena), Davidson all make sense. Others may be Detroit, Cleveland State.

Some other moves underway - Loyola (MD) is leaving the MAAC to join the Patriot League. BU is leaving America East and will also join the Patriot League. Quinnipiac and Monmouth are leaving the NEC to join the MAAC to bring that league to 11 members. Clearly re-alignment dominos from the BE along with other motivating factors are striking the lower echelon conferences, American East seems particularly vulnerable given old disputes over football. Will Stony Brook and/or Albany leave? Also vulnerable is the NEC. Even the MAAC is seen by some as an incubator for the A-10. Siena and Fairfield come to mind.

P. S. In the final analysis the only thing a school can control is strengthening the attractiveness of its own athletic programs. While football is a peripherial factor in mid-major re-alignment, nonetheless URI’s move to downgrade its football program to the NEC was quite damaging to its overall athletics reputation. This has been partially rectified by the decision to remain in the CAA, but more needs to be done.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

URI football will be in the NEC before long. This was a reprieve. Not a stay of execution.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Rosie, if URI thinks about dropping down again, they should not even bother. Drop out.

If getting back in the CAA doesn't work, then end the charade.

I really think it will be one or the other. Thorr and others have convinced Dooley to save football for now. We'll see how it works out.

Once revenue from BB increases, it's football's last best chance to survive.

CTRamfan · Unread post by **CTRamfan** » 11 years ago

It looks like this, as of Monday 1/28 for the Big East. Multiple sources reported today on an interview with BE Commissioner Aresco. He is saying the 10 remaining schools, plus Navy next year will keep the Big East name, and look for a 12th member. He said they on the verge of signing a three network contract.

My guess is based on that, the Catholic seven will need to find a new name. I also think that schools they are courting may have less interest in the new conference without the Big East trademark. That trademark has been a powerfull marketing tool. It will be interesting. I'm feeling in my gut that the A10 may be stronger going forward with this news.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Or he's just saying that cuz the C7 need to BUY the rights to the "Big East" name yet.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

To me, it looks like the football schools will win the battle over the name.

If it comes down to money, it's no contest.

If that helps the A10 in some way, great.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

I would think based on the members that make up the C7; they may have a claim to the name. It's all about MSG. Name doesn't matter.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

The schools formally exiting the conference have no unconditional right to the name.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

Sean i disagree in a major way on that point, the Big East name is part of the "brand" the network is buying. Yes its the sum of the parts, but the value of the new league is diluted to some extent without the name. Joe Public cares about Big East Basketball. I have said since Day 1 that retaining the name would seem to be a major goal for the C7. Without it your negotiating position is further weakened. Someone signing a check could probably justify giving that money to the New Big East. Giving the sums tossed around to some brand new league containing a majority of the programs at the basement of the current Big East can't be nearly as attractive. And as the Rza said, the saga continues.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Plus, nothing's happening for at least a year, maybe two. The C7 are staying put for another year, and if they can't negotiate a deal on the exit fees, another year after that.

The A10 will have 14 teams next year. [minus Temple and Charlotte]

They will have time to add a couple or 3 [if UMass leaves] before the expected hit comes.

I would imagine the A10 powers that be, will know sometime in advance of any public announcement which teams will be leaving. They aren't going to be caught sleeping.

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 11 years ago

A10 teams will make decisions on staying or leaving based upon what is in their best overall financial interest. There is no loyalty. Consider U of Md leaving the ACC.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Well, there are a lot of factors involved in staying or leaving, but yes, TV exposure and the resulting increase in revenue is indeed the tail that wags the dog.

I would think Rhody would go too, if they were offered a five fold increase in TV money. That's what it looks like the new schools going to the new BE will be getting.

The A10 will never be able to get that kind of money, with too many small arenas that hardly ever sell out. Like has been said by many on here, the A10 has to streamline itself, by dropping the weak programs and adding a few stronger ones.

If they could get a new deal where each member school could get say, 750K to 1 Mil a year from TV? That would be nice.

peeps4life · Unread post by **peeps4life** » 11 years ago

is this real life? so... without the brand name, the $500M still on the table leaves the A10 stronger going forward how exactly?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Plus, nothing's happening for at least a year, maybe two. The C7 are staying put for another year, and if they can't negotiate a deal on the exit fees, another year after that.

Are you sure about that? You think the C7 will be playing in the mish-mash "Big East" next year, and not in their new conference? Fox needs programming right away for their new 24/7 national network, FoxSports1. I bet the $500M is to cover all the ridiculous expenses and fines for the schools to leave immediately, settle on rights for MSG and BIgEast name, and anything else (perhaps the forfeiture of NCAA credits).

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

the most recent reports have the C7 trying to make next season their last in the BE.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

bar, that's what I've heard too.

If Fox is that desperate to lose a ton of money, then maybe they could move things up, but it's not looking like it right now.

One thing's for sure, PC isn't going to shell out 10 million of their own money to leave early. That money's either coming from TV, or not at all.

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