Number of A10 Teams in NCAA 2016 Tournament

[ramster]

Created a separate thread for this since the PC Board felt the need for a separate thread as DePaul defeated GW last night.
Then we had a continuation of RJ believing the A10 will get less than 3 bids and in fact "hoping to be a 2 bid conference"
As I said in the other thread, RJ, I'll wear a PC shirt it next year's game at the Dunk and eat my computer if the A10 gets less than 3 bids.
Amazing how the PC board jumped all over this DePaul victory over GW. Some nasty stuff in that thread. Congrats on being a Top 10 AP ranked team. Nice to know that the dismal performance of the A10 makes your board even happier.
I'll revisit this thread in March Madness selection Sunday to see if your 1 or 2 bid prediction comes true,

From RJ yesterday:
A10 not looking to hot ...
Probably hoping to be a 2 bid conference.
At the moment, better chance of it being a 1 bid conference than a 3 bid conference.
3-7 (Davidson, Richmond, St. Joe's, URI, VCU) really haven't done much.
Those guys though have been pulverized against Top 50 teams.
0-10.
RPI Forecast's 3rd best A10 team is Davidson with a projected RPI of 60 at the moment.
They've played 2 Top 100 games, lost by 33 at UNC and by 25 to Pitt on a neutral court.
Ouch!
Last edited Today 12:01 AM by rjsuperfly66

[RF1]

RJ is such a expert that he seemed to completely ignore the one A-10 team (even despite their loss last night) with the best resume so far:

rjsuperfly66

A10
Great Shape: None
Good Shape: Dayton (27)
Bubble: St. Joseph's (57), Richmond (59)
NIT: Davidson (61), VCU (75), URI (77)

Where is GW?

[ramster]

Then right after RJ's A10 stinks post, his buddy DarthFriar helps to pile on:

The A10 is pathetic!!!
rhody loses to a poor Old Dominion team, PC crushes UMass, the Big East's worse team slams one of the A10's best in GW, Miami beats up LaSalle on their home court and over the weekend Pitt crushes Davidson and every A10 school would cream themselves if the Big East extended an invite.
'Nuff said!!!
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." - Boxworth on the inhabitants of the Ryan Center

DarthFriar


And posters on KeaneyBlue wonder why I don't root for our fellow in state school to win

[BleedBlue87]

At least 3 bids going to the NCAA tournament.

[BleedBlue87]

Then right after RJ's A10 stinks post, his buddy DarthFriar helps to pile on:

The A10 is pathetic!!!
rhody loses to a poor Old Dominion team, PC crushes UMass, the Big East's worse team slams one of the A10's best in GW, Miami beats up LaSalle on their home court and over the weekend Pitt crushes Davidson and every A10 school would cream themselves if the Big East extended an invite.
'Nuff said!!!
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." - Boxworth on the inhabitants of the Ryan Center

DarthFriar


And posters on KeaneyBlue wonder why I don't root for our fellow in state school to win

That guy Darth is just a straight asshole. I'm offended that he even uses a Star Wars reference in his name.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Then right after RJ's A10 stinks post, his buddy DarthFriar helps to pile on:

The A10 is pathetic!!!
rhody loses to a poor Old Dominion team, PC crushes UMass, the Big East's worse team slams one of the A10's best in GW, Miami beats up LaSalle on their home court and over the weekend Pitt crushes Davidson and every A10 school would cream themselves if the Big East extended an invite.
'Nuff said!!!
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy." - Boxworth on the inhabitants of the Ryan Center

DarthFriar


And posters on KeaneyBlue wonder why I don't root for our fellow in state school to win

LOl..it is all kinda funny though...

[theblueram]

eff pc. how many fans do you think are actually catholic? most are prob in jail.

[RF1]

They crow about GW getting beat last night by Depaul but ignore the fact that GW beat highly rated Virginia as well as Big East member Seton Hall. The A-10 overall is 14-16 vs the P5 leagues. It is projected to be the #7 RPI league just three spots behind the #4 Big East. Every league has some bad losses here and there.

Notable Big East losses thus far:

Monmouth
Radford
NJIT
Incarnate Word
Fordham
Arkansas Litte Rock
Belmont
UNC-Asheville
Loyola-Chicago
Long Beach State

[Billyboy78]

I wonder if that Darth asshole is the big, dumb, ugly slob that sat a couple of rows in front of me at the game a few weeks ago. Like most PC fans, I'm 100% sure he did not go to that crappy school or any other school, for that matter. A large percentage of their fans barely made it out of middle school. God, I hate everything about those people and that program.

[RF1]

As TWISTED posted on the A-10 Board:

Historical Data A-10 OOC Win% & NCAA Bids:
.708 - 2014 Atlantic 10 - 6 bids
.654 - 2013 Atlantic 10 - 5 bids
.643 - 2008 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.624 - 2012 Atlantic 10 - 4 bids
.624 - 2010 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.600 - 2015 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.593 - 2009 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.587 - 2004 Atlantic 10 - 4 bids
.587 - 2011 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.559 - 2000 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.556 - 2001 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.555 - 2006 Atlantic 10 - 2 bids
.541 - 2007 Atlantic 10 - 2 bids
.536 - 2003 Atlantic 10 - 3 bids
.522 - 2002 Atlantic 10 - 1 bid
.406 - 2005 Atlantic 10 - 1 bid


2015-16 OOC Schedule winning percentage with just a few games remaining: 0.6623 (100-51)

[ramster]

I wonder if that Darth asshole is the big, dumb, ugly slob that sat a couple of rows in front of me at the game a few weeks ago. Like most PC fans, I'm 100% sure he did not go to that crappy school or any other school, for that matter. A large percentage of their fans barely made it out of middle school. God, I hate everything about those people and that program.

Big, dumb, ugly slob does not exactly narrow down the field

[rjsuperfly66]

Well thanks for reading.
I will admit, I missed GW today.
Forecast has them at a projected RPI of 53.
Not exactly stellar.
My point about the "closer to 1 bid than 3" revolves around that.
GW is supposed to be the #2, and they got pulverized last night.
Their "success" this year has revolved around one win.
A great win, but their resume is very incomplete.
GW needs to prove they can play away from home.
They are currently 2-2, but one of those wins was against a team with a projected RPI over 250 by 6 points, and one of those losses was to a team whose RPI shouldn't be better than 150 by over 20.
3 through 7 in the A10 are 1-10 against projected Top 50 teams.
The one win is from Richmond over projected #47 California.
GW should stabalize and probably get in.
Other than that, there isn't a 3rd team you look at and say "that's the one."
Richmond is the one team I look at and say they can have some resume building wins OOC, but even they have some warts.
They still play Texas Tech on the road, who could also be a Top 50 RPI team this year.
The Big East has some terrible losses, no doubt about it.
But the teams expected to go to the tournament are currently 43-4, with wins (projected RPI's) over Purdue (6; neutral), Arizona (21; neutral), USC (26; neutral), Dayton (28; neutral), and Cincinnati x2 (28; road/home), and whose 4 losses are to Oklahoma (6; neutral), Michigan St. (6; neutral), Virginia (9; road), and Miami (15; neutral).
The Big East 4 up there look pretty solid for the tourney at this point.
Can you say the same about the A10?

[Billyboy78]

I wonder if that Darth asshole is the big, dumb, ugly slob that sat a couple of rows in front of me at the game a few weeks ago. Like most PC fans, I'm 100% sure he did not go to that crappy school or any other school, for that matter. A large percentage of their fans barely made it out of middle school. God, I hate everything about those people and that program.

Big, dumb, ugly slob does not exactly narrow down the field

This guy was looking to fight anyone. He was sticking his finger into people's faces with a look of rage on his face. He was not a kid either. I'm guessing he was about 30.

[rhodyrudder]

I wonder if that Darth asshole is the big, dumb, ugly slob that sat a couple of rows in front of me at the game a few weeks ago. Like most PC fans, I'm 100% sure he did not go to that crappy school or any other school, for that matter. A large percentage of their fans barely made it out of middle school. God, I hate everything about those people and that program.

Big, dumb, ugly slob does not exactly narrow down the field

This guy was looking to fight anyone. He was sticking his finger into people's faces with a look of rage on his face. He was not a kid either. I'm guessing he was about 30.

Step away from the mascot.

[ramster]

Well thanks for reading.
I will admit, I missed GW today.
Forecast has them at a projected RPI of 53.
Not exactly stellar.
My point about the "closer to 1 bid than 3" revolves around that.
GW is supposed to be the #2, and they got pulverized last night.
Their "success" this year has revolved around one win.
A great win, but their resume is very incomplete.
GW needs to prove they can play away from home.
They are currently 2-2, but one of those wins was against a team with a projected RPI over 250 by 6 points, and one of those losses was to a team whose RPI shouldn't be better than 150 by over 20.
3 through 7 in the A10 are 1-10 against projected Top 50 teams.
The one win is from Richmond over projected #47 California.
GW should stabalize and probably get in.
Other than that, there isn't a 3rd team you look at and say "that's the one."
Richmond is the one team I look at and say they have some resume building wins OOC, but even they have some warts.
The Big East has some terrible losses, no doubt about it.
But the teams expected to go to the tournament are currently 43-4, with wins (projected RPI's) over Purdue (6; neutral), Arizona (21; neutral), USC (26; neutral), Dayton (28; neutral), and Cincinnati x2 (28; road/home), and whose 4 losses are to Oklahoma (6; neutral), Michigan St. (6; neutral), Virginia (9; road), and Miami (15; neutral).
The Big East 4 up there look pretty solid for the tourney at this point.
Can you say the same about the A10?

Here are the current Realtime RPI's (and yes I know you look at the end of season prediction model) this represents where we are now:

A10 has 5 teams ranked 75 or less. NBE has 5 below 75 as well.
A10 has 6 teams with SOS less than 100. NBE has 5 under 100 SOS
8 Dayton (9-2) SOS 4
27 Davidson (6-2) SOS 30
32 GW (10-2) SOS 77
34 St Joe (9-2) SOS 59
75 Richmond (8-3) SOS 107

1 Xavier (12-0) SOS 1
5 Villanova (9-2) SOS 3
16 PC (12-1) SOS 75
24 Butler (10-1) SOS 98
55 Seton Hall (10-2) SOS 151

For the record:
125 URI (7-5) SOS 72

Hardly the humongous gap in teams that could end up in the NCAA that you would have others believe.

[rjsuperfly66]

The #1 thing that hurts the A10 is the unbalanced schedule.
In the Big East, there are clearly some bad teams.
You have to play DePaul twice, you have to play St. John's twice.
But at the end of the day, the top teams know they are probably going to get 6 Top 50 games and 6 100+ games.
PC, for example, will get 6 games vs. X, Butler, and 'Nova, and 6 vs. Marquette, SJU, and DePaul.
Now Davidson is the #2 team on the current RPI list from the A10.
They play Dayton once and GW twice which should be Top 50 games.
They have 8 games that look like they will be 100+.
St. Bonaventure, Duquesne x2, George Mason x2, UMASS, St. Louis, Fordham.
That's were the gap begins to be created.
I know future projections aren't exactly reliable, but it's also why I don't slave over the current.
It's not just about wins and losses, it's who you beat and where you beat them.

[hrstrat57]

I wonder if that Darth asshole is the big, dumb, ugly slob that sat a couple of rows in front of me at the game a few weeks ago. Like most PC fans, I'm 100% sure he did not go to that crappy school or any other school, for that matter. A large percentage of their fans barely made it out of middle school. God, I hate everything about those people and that program.

Most eloquently stated indeed.......

[theblueram]

The #1 thing that hurts the A10 is the unbalanced schedule.
In the Big East, there are clearly some bad teams.
You have to play DePaul twice, you have to play St. John's twice.
But at the end of the day, the top teams know they are probably going to get 6 Top 50 games and 6 100+ games.
PC, for example, will get 6 games vs. X, Butler, and 'Nova, and 6 vs. Marquette, SJU, and DePaul.
Now Davidson is the #2 team on the current RPI list from the A10.
They play Dayton once and GW twice which should be Top 50 games.
They have 8 games that look like they will be 100+.
St. Bonaventure, Duquesne x2, George Mason x2, UMASS, St. Louis, Fordham.
That's were the gap begins to be created.
I know future projections aren't exactly reliable, but it's also why I don't slave over the current.
It's not just about wins and losses, it's who you beat and where you beat them.

You are getting Depaul, Creighton, Gtown, St Johns and Marquette TWICE this year who are all sub 100. If that is not an RPI killer not sure what is. Yeah we have an unbalanced scheduled, which means the chances of meeting the dregs twice each year is diminished.

[adam914]

Man I can't imagine having a Top 10 team and still all they care about is URI and the A-10. What a sad existence that must be.

[theblueram]

So heading into conference play, pc has 8 top 100 teams to play and we have 7. wow. big disparity.

[rambone 78]

The edge the BE has, is there are a couple of teams right now that are better than anything the A10 has, and the A10 has more bad teams at the bottom. The middle of both conferences are pretty even.

That hasn't changed much the last few years, and isn't likely to change in the future either, unless there is more realignment and a more equitable TV contract [meaning money] for the A10.

There's no question that BE teams get more of a bump playing the best of their conference, and A10 teams get hurt by having to play more weaker teams in theirs.

If that's defending RJ's point of view, well then. As for the number of teams that will make the Dance, the edge will go to the BE. But the A10 will still get at least 3 in.

One other thing, the A10 could be hurt by having a program like VCU having an infrequent down year, and us not getting in, which we were expected to.

[Obadiah]

Isn't darth the clown that went on to the Stanford board years ago and posted Thank You, Thank you, Thank you. A perfect example low class that PC is all about.

[bigappleram]

I would not post here if we had URI versions of the dregs over there - Darth, a few others, just typical yokel Providence idiots. Wouldn't last a minute outside their 10 mile bubble.

[Shinze88]

I would not post here if we had URI versions of the dregs over there - Darth, a few others, just typical yokel Providence idiots. Wouldn't last a minute outside their 10 mile bubble.

The few pc fans I actually know are rational and have a good sense of the college basketball landscape, both guys actually went to pc and graduated. The tools on their board are almost certainly to have never stepped foot on that campus and their very existence is defined how the pc friars perform on the court. I'd guess that more than 50% of the posters didn't graduate from pc, or didn't graduate from any school for that matter. Being from CT, there is certainly a same group of people who are UConn fans who never attended the school, while they also have their share of irrational fans, they've at least had a great deal of success the past 30 years. Fans aside, pc is in a great situation in the NBE, they can now be a competitive team in that conference instead of being a yearly punching bag for the legit hoop schools, the NBE while not considered a P5 conference has positioned itself well for the future, and pc is looking at making its 3rd straight ncaa appearance, something we as URI fans can only be envious of. Right now, pc and URI are two programs heading in opposite directions and the only way that will change is for URI to start winning games against the top team on the schedule, its that simple.

[15 Year Lurker]

I would probably remember that a lot of the big east teams they now refer to as their better teams in the conference like Butler and Xavier they were saying the same thing about when they were in the A10.

[Ashcat]

At the conclusion of non-conference play 11 of the 14 teams in the A-10 posted winning records with LaSalle, George Mason and Saint Louis being the exceptions. We are facing a Billikens team tomorrow that is coming off a four game losing steak and having lost seven of their last eight game. Most recently they took a 75-47 beating at the hands of Kansas State.

[ramster]

Created a separate thread for this since the PC Board felt the need for a separate thread as DePaul defeated GW last night.
Then we had a continuation of RJ believing the A10 will get less than 3 bids and in fact "hoping to be a 2 bid conference"
As I said in the other thread, RJ, I'll wear a PC shirt it next year's game at the Dunk and eat my computer if the A10 gets less than 3 bids.
Amazing how the PC board jumped all over this DePaul victory over GW. Some nasty stuff in that thread. Congrats on being a Top 10 AP ranked team. Nice to know that the dismal performance of the A10 makes your board even happier.
I'll revisit this thread in March Madness selection Sunday to see if your 1 or 2 bid prediction comes true,

From RJ yesterday:
A10 not looking to hot ...
Probably hoping to be a 2 bid conference.
At the moment, better chance of it being a 1 bid conference than a 3 bid conference.
3-7 (Davidson, Richmond, St. Joe's, URI, VCU) really haven't done much.
Those guys though have been pulverized against Top 50 teams.
0-10.
RPI Forecast's 3rd best A10 team is Davidson with a projected RPI of 60 at the moment.
They've played 2 Top 100 games, lost by 33 at UNC and by 25 to Pitt on a neutral court.
Ouch!
Last edited Today 12:01 AM by rjsuperfly66

Circling back to when RJ said A10 A10 had a better chance of being a 1 bid conference than a 3 bid conference.
Well...... I did not have to eat my computer and I will not have to wear a PC Jersey at next years PC-URI "Rivalry" game at the Dunk in December.

Debate last December had A10 getting 1 or 2 Bids vs 3 and the BE was being projected for 5-7 bids
NCAA ended up with A10 3 bids and BE 5 bids
NIT ended up with A10 3 bids and BE 1 bid

Post Season Summary:
A10
NCAA: 3 teams in. Went 2-3 with 2 losses coming at the hands of 2 Final 4 teams
1- St Joe beat Cincinnati, lost to Oregon
2- VCU beat Oregon State, lost to Oklahoma
3- Dayton lost to Syracuse

NIT: 3 teams in. Went 4-2 with GW winning the Championship
1- GW beat Hofstra, Monmouth, Florida, Valparaiso to win the NIT
2- Davidson lost to FSU
3- St Bonaventure lost to Wagner

CBI: 1 team in. Duquesne beat Nebraska Omaha, lost to Morehead State which went on to win the Championship
CIT: 1 team in. Fordham lost to BU

Big East
NCAA: 5 teams in. 7-4 so far
1- Villanova beat UNC Ashville, Iowa, Miami, Kansas
2- PC beat USC, lost to UNC
3- Butler beat Texas Tech, lost to Virginia
4- Xavier beat Weber State, lost to Wisconsin
5- Seton Hall lost to Gonzaga

NIT: 1 team in. Went 2-1
1- Creighton beat Alabama, Wagner, lost to Brigham Young

CIT and CBI: no teams

[ramster]

A10 NCAA Bids this Century. 9 Consecutive Years with 3 or more bids
2016 - 3 bids
2015 - 3 bids
2014 - 6 bids
2013 - 5 bids
2012 - 4 bids
2011 - 3 bids
2010 - 3 bids
2009 - 3 bids
2008 - 3 bids
2007 - 2 bids
2006 - 2 bids
2005 - 1 bid
2004 - 4 bids
2003 - 3 bids
2002 - 1 bid
2001 - 3 bids
2000 - 3 bids

[rjsuperfly66]

I was admittedly wrong about my assessment in December. I did not see the break that ultimately ended up happening, I thought there were a lot of decent teams that would bash each other's brains in hurting the potential of the conference. But teams like Davidson, URI and Richmond fell back to the pack, and there was some separation at the top which I didn't see coming. Ultimately, the A10 probably should have been a 4 bid conference, and did get screwed.

However, comparing the A10 to the Big East is such a fruitless exercise that it should cease to exist. You cannot simply compare the conference's by "total bids." The A10 has 14 teams to 10 in the Big East. The Big East has gotten in 50% of it's teams this year after getting in 60% of it's teams last year and 40% of it's teams the year before. In the last 3 years, that's a total tournament output of 50% of it's programs. That's good for 15 total bids in 3 years. The A10 put in 21% of it's teams this year, 21% of it's teams last year, and 46% of it's teams 2 years ago. That's a 3 year average of 29%, 12 total bids. The BE has earned .93 WPB* (wins per bid; *since Villanova is still in the tournament) with 14 wins in 15 bids, the A10 has earned .58 WPB (7 wins in 12 bids). This year, KenPom ranks the BE as the 3rd best conference and the A10 8th (with an average difference of 16 points per team). Last year, Ken Pom ranked the BE as the 3rd best conference and the A10 7th (with an average difference of 18 points per team). 2 years ago, Ken Pom ranked the BE 5th and the A10 8th (with an average difference of 4 points per team). Yes, the Big East isn't as strong as it once was (at least from a WPB standpoint). And sure, by default that means the A10 has caught up to the current Big East a little bit. But there is still a noticable gap between the conferences, and the A10 fans need to worry more about getting consistent power teams at the top, and less comparing trying to convince themselves they are comparable to the Big East (that means you Ramster) .

[NYGFan_Section208]

the A10 has caught up to the current Big East a little bit. But there is still a noticable gap between the conferences, and the A10 fans need to worry more about getting consistent power teams at the top, and less comparing trying to convince themselves they are comparable to the Big East .

There sure is....KenPom is just one of many many many ways to look at it, but last I looked, his avg rank for BE teams was in the 70s and for A10 in the 120s....

[bigappleram]

I agree this is a pointless convo on multiple levels. Yes the BE is clearly better, by any metric, but the difference is significantly smaller than what it once was. But yes there is still a gap and it shouldn't be argued.
That said, the % of teams that make the tourney matter squat to the average college hoops fan. The SEC has 1 marquee hoops program right now, but that 1 program is worth more than all 10 Big East programs in the public lexicon/zeitgeist.
All that matters is what happens in March, and the BE finally has Nova pulling their weight on the national stage.

[ramster]

I was admittedly wrong about my assessment in December. I did not see the break that ultimately ended up happening, I thought there were a lot of decent teams that would bash each other's brains in hurting the potential of the conference. But teams like Davidson, URI and Richmond fell back to the pack, and there was some separation at the top which I didn't see coming. Ultimately, the A10 probably should have been a 4 bid conference, and did get screwed.

However, comparing the A10 to the Big East is such a fruitless exercise that it should cease to exist. You cannot simply compare the conference's by "total bids." The A10 has 14 teams to 10 in the Big East. The Big East has gotten in 50% of it's teams this year after getting in 60% of it's teams last year and 40% of it's teams the year before. In the last 3 years, that's a total tournament output of 50% of it's programs. That's good for 15 total bids in 3 years. The A10 put in 21% of it's teams this year, 21% of it's teams last year, and 46% of it's teams 2 years ago. That's a 3 year average of 29%, 12 total bids. The BE has earned .93 WPB* (wins per bid; *since Villanova is still in the tournament) with 14 wins in 15 bids, the A10 has earned .58 WPB (7 wins in 12 bids). This year, KenPom ranks the BE as the 3rd best conference and the A10 8th (with an average difference of 16 points per team). Last year, Ken Pom ranked the BE as the 3rd best conference and the A10 7th (with an average difference of 18 points per team). 2 years ago, Ken Pom ranked the BE 5th and the A10 8th (with an average difference of 4 points per team). Yes, the Big East isn't as strong as it once was (at least from a WPB standpoint). And sure, by default that means the A10 has caught up to the current Big East a little bit. But there is still a noticable gap between the conferences, and the A10 fans need to worry more about getting consistent power teams at the top, and less comparing trying to convince themselves they are comparable to the Big East (that means you Ramster) .

RJ,
Good response. And thanks for admitting being wrong
Agree that A10 should have had 4 in the NCAA but could even make a case the in addition to St Bonaventure George Washington should could have been in the NCAA having won the NIT

You are the only person I have ever heard quote the percentage of teams from the conference that makes the NCAA.
It's all about the number of teams you get in that I ever see talked about.
I never hear people quote percentage of teams making it from the ACC (15 teams) vs the Big 12 (10 teams)

The odds of the A10 getting less than 3 bids are very, very high. 9 straight years of at least 3 bids.

Here are the Conferences ranked as of March and number of teams in the conference
1 Big 12 (10 teams).5883
2 Pacific 12 (12 teams).5776
3 Atlantic Coast (15 teams).5715
4 Big East (10 teams).5606
5 Big Ten (14 teams).5514
6 Southeastern (14 teams).5496
7 Atlantic (14 teams).5361
8 American Athletic (11 teams).5349
9 Colonial Athletic (10 teams).5231
10 Mid American (12 teams).5179

Big East is the 4 ranked conference and first among non BCS
Atlantic 10 is the 7th ranked conference and second among non BCS and we are chasing you!!!

In the Top 10 RPI Conferences the lowest number of teams is 10 shared by Big 12, Big East and Colonial
The most teams is the ACC with 15. 14 teams is shared by the Big 10, Southeastern and Atlantic 10

I don't think the number of teams in a conference matters at all.

I much prefer to be in a conference with 14-15 teams than one with only 10.

[rjsuperfly66]

I never hear people quote percentage of teams making it from the ACC (15 teams) vs the Big 12 (10 teams)

The odds of the A10 getting less than 3 bids are very, very high. 9 straight years of at least 3 bids.


In the Top 10 RPI Conferences the lowest number of teams is 10 shared by Big 12, Big East and Colonial
The most teams is the ACC with 15. 14 teams is shared by the Big 10, Southeastern and Atlantic 10

I don't think the number of teams in a conference matters at all.

I much prefer to be in a conference with 14-15 teams than one with only 10.

I don't know, I've often heard Big 12 and my own Big East fans talk about the size of the conference.
The Big East in 3 years has averaged 5 bids per season.
50% of the conference.
If you're in the top 5, you're feeling good about making the tournament.
Big 12 has been stronger that basically 6 or 7 have Top 25 RPI's heading into conference play.
They lose a few games, so what? It's to another Top 25 team.
So basically you play a decent OOC and hope to win 10 games in conference and you feel like you're a lock.
Because of the unbalanced schedule, you aren't locked in to multiple games against the top teams in a 12-16 team conference.
You don't think St. Bonaventure wishes they got one more crack at someone at the top?
A 2nd game against VCU, George Washington or Davidson versus a second game against UMASS, St. Louis or Duquense?
One more chance to show they belong in the tournament?
Easy to point to losing the tournament game, and they still belonged there, and they did get screwed, but I'm know it's something I would be thinking about.
How could we have made our schedule better?
Every bubble teams nightmare.
Some things they can control (OOC) other things they can't (conference play).

[ramster]

I see your point, but I would still prefer a 14 team league over a 10 team league.
I would not be averse to the A10 adding a 15th team.
Bonnie's did not make the tournament because they got screwed by the NCAA. Plus they lost in the playoffs to Davidson in quarter finals. Number of teams in the league was not the issue.

[rjsuperfly66]

I see your point, but I would still prefer a 14 team league over a 10 team league.
I would not be averse to the A10 adding a 15th team.
Bonnie's did not make the tournament because they got screwed by the NCAA. Plus they lost in the playoffs to Davidson in quarter finals. Number of teams in the league was not the issue.

See, I think the complete opposite. I always say it when talking about the A10, but dump the dead weight. Even to get to 12 teams. Or make mandatory facility requirements, something that forces teams tradionally on the bottom to shit or get off the pot. If you cut out 2 teams that on average have RPI's greater than 150, your whole conference becomes stronger, noticably stronger. It's a game or two more against a decent team and it's a game or two less against a perennially bad team.

Fordham's RPI's: 176, 238, 226, 229, 240, 253, 306, 291, 172, 116, 133, 209, 214.
That's dating back to 2002-2003.
Pair them with Duquesne:
162, 223, 199, 227, 109, 108, 114, 75, 129, 223, 308, 288, 162
Where to next, LaSalle?
232, 100, 97, 46, 87, 169, 173, 112, 164, 268, 102, 239, 189

Honest question I don't know, how do their facilities stack up?
What do they honestly provide to the A10 after 10 years?
I think you can live with 1 tomato can, but 2 or 3 perennial tomato cans next to other teams that may have ups and downs (St. Louis, George Mason), and now you have a floor that is hurting.

[ramster]

I see your point, but I would still prefer a 14 team league over a 10 team league.
I would not be averse to the A10 adding a 15th team.
Bonnie's did not make the tournament because they got screwed by the NCAA. Plus they lost in the playoffs to Davidson in quarter finals. Number of teams in the league was not the issue.

See, I think the complete opposite. I always say it when talking about the A10, but dump the dead weight. Even to get to 12 teams. Or make mandatory facility requirements, something that forces teams tradionally on the bottom to shit or get off the pot. If you cut out 2 teams that on average have RPI's greater than 150, your whole conference becomes stronger, noticably stronger. It's a game or two more against a decent team and it's a game or two less against a perennially bad team.

Fordham's RPI's: 176, 238, 226, 229, 240, 253, 306, 291, 172, 116, 133, 209, 214.
That's dating back to 2002-2003.
Pair them with Duquesne:
162, 223, 199, 227, 109, 108, 114, 75, 129, 223, 308, 288, 162
Where to next, LaSalle?
232, 100, 97, 46, 87, 169, 173, 112, 164, 268, 102, 239, 189

Honest question I don't know, how do their facilities stack up?
What do they honestly provide to the A10 after 10 years?
I think you can live with 1 tomato can, but 2 or 3 perennial tomato cans next to other teams that may have ups and downs (St. Louis, George Mason), and now you have a floor that is hurting.

RJ,
I see your point but I still like the 14 teams in the A10 and here are my thoughts:
Fordham gives the A10 a presence in NYC - crucially important. If not Fordham then Manhattan? Hofstra? Iona? Fordham has a strong woman's team, a strong football team......they have a new Coach who turned the program around a lot this year, had the Rookie of the Year in the A10. Eventually Fordham will improve their Basketball facility. They went from 4-14 last year to 8-10 this year. Fordham went 17-13 overall and program is looking up.

Duquesne gives the A10 a presence in Pittsburgh - also an important market. If not Duquesne then the horrible Robert Morris led by Andy Toole that just went 10-22 in the NEC? No thanks. Duquesne improved also going 6-12 and 16-16. They have an up and coming Coach who may turn that program around.

LaSalle gives the Philly market presences along with St Joe. Good rivalry game for St Joe. Excellent, well respected HC in Dr John G.

The bottom 3 teams this year were George Mason (5-13) 11-21, Saint Louis (5-13) 11-21 and LaSalle (4-14) 9-22. All 3 of these have potential to improve and have not always been bottom 3 for sure.

If your conference has all 10 of 10 teams strong, then it makes it tough to get any kind of breather in January or February. The BE has St John's to provide that breather. All conferences have teams that tend to dwell in the cellar:
ACC: BC and Wake Forest
American: Tulane, South Florida, East Carolina
Big 10: Rutgers, Minnesota
Pac 12: Washington State

What you suggest, to jettison the bottom 3 teams from the A10 has been suggested many times here. But have you ever seen a P7 Conference actually just officially cut any team for lack of performance? I can't remember this happening unless there was a big reorganization such as what happened to the BE.

I agree that there should be requirements for Arena size.

[rjsuperfly66]

I think we need to define a true tomato can, maybe a team who has an RPI greater than 150?

In the last 3 years,

League RPI's 150+
1. Big 12 10%
2. Big 10 13%
3. Pac 12 14%
4. SEC 17%
5. ACC 18%
6. Big East 20%
7. Atlantic 10 37%
8. AAC 41%

League RPI's 200+
1. Big 12 3%
2. Big 10 5%
3. Big East 7%
4. Pac 12 8%
5. ACC 9%
6. SEC 10%
7. Atlantic 10 20%
8. AAC 31%

Long-winded answer of yes, every league has those teams, but the Atlantic 10 has probably double every season then what they should want. It's tough that they've had 3 teams at the bottom (George Mason, Duquesne, Fordham) who have basically resided there, and then a few other teams who may just have off-years or off-stretches. Even George Mason, people think they'll get out of the bottom, but I looked through 4 years of recruiting history, I think they've only brought in 2 3-star players and something like 6 2-star players and 3 completely unranked guys.

[ramster]

I think we need to define a true tomato can, maybe a team who has an RPI greater than 150?

In the last 3 years,

League RPI's 150+
1. Big 12 10%
2. Big 10 13%
3. Pac 12 14%
4. SEC 17%
5. ACC 18%
6. Big East 20%
7. Atlantic 10 37%
8. AAC 41%

League RPI's 200+
1. Big 12 3%
2. Big 10 5%
3. Big East 7%
4. Pac 12 8%
5. ACC 9%
6. SEC 10%
7. Atlantic 10 20%
8. AAC 31%

Long-winded answer of yes, every league has those teams, but the Atlantic 10 has probably double every season then what they should want. It's tough that they've had 3 teams at the bottom (George Mason, Duquesne, Fordham) who have basically resided there, and then a few other teams who may just have off-years or off-stretches.

But RJ, other than on the KeaneyBlue Board, does anybody else talk about the bottom 3 or 4 teams in the league reflecting negatively on the League?
I think it is more what the top 3-6 teams in the League do that makes the impression positive or negative.

I would say that considering the A10 lost that the A10 has done quite well for itself continuing to be at least a 3 Bid League even with those 3 defections. Can make the argument that the A10 could have been a 4 or even 5 bid conference this year.
-Temple 1st Place AAC. NCAA 10 Seed. 21-12 (14-4)
-Xavier 2nd Place BE. NCAA 2 Seed. 28-6 (14-4)
-Butler 4th Place BE. NCAA 10 Seed. 22-11 (10-8)

But bottom line, there is no way that Bernadette McGlynn is going to remove any teams from the League at this point. Rarely, if ever, have bottom performing Teams been asked to leave Leagues. This happens when there are major changes in League make ups with new Leagues forming or something else major going on.

A10 NCAA Bids this Century. 9 Consecutive Years with 3 or more bids
2016 - 3 bids
2015 - 3 bids
2014 - 6 bids
2013 - 5 bids
2012 - 4 bids
2011 - 3 bids
2010 - 3 bids
2009 - 3 bids
2008 - 3 bids

[rjsuperfly66]

Ramster, you are right from a national perspective, people care about bids and what you do there.

But if I'm actually analyzing the conference, I do think there is an element there where the league SOS dips, which does directly impact the number of bids at the top. It's impactful because it's a bad loss, or it's impactful because it's a game that doesn't nudge the RPI at all. There is no reason though that the A10 shouldn't always be a 4-6 bid conference. We both agree that St. Bonaventure screwed themselves by not winning in the A10 tournament, but I'll still contend they may wish they got a few tougher games during conference play. Of their 5 home-and-homes, the RPI's of those teams were 21-22-162-171-206. The conference schedule requires an element of luck.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Totally agree with: ---> I think it is more what the top 3-6 teams in the League do that makes the impression positive or negative.